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some SAD news to AMD fans.

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June 4, 2008 4:10:08 PM

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fdi...

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fdi...

pretty much expected really.i was actually surprise AMD didnt delay the HD4XXX.AMD CPU department and marketing department sort yourself out!

More about : sad news amd fans

June 4, 2008 4:17:43 PM

While it is pure speculation on whether or not Deneb is having problems sampling, AMD cannot afford another product delay, that is for certain.

I will give them (AMD) the benefit of doubt, but not showing Deneb at one of the biggest showcases for computer products doesn't help, either.
June 4, 2008 4:24:39 PM

is it AMD cannot afford another product delay or is it AMD cannot afford to make another product?share prices isnt great.one of my mate lost all his money on the supposedly profitting AMD.but who knows....
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June 4, 2008 4:35:54 PM

got news for you, its sad news for everyone.

a total Intel monopoly does nobody any good.
June 4, 2008 4:52:58 PM

If your friend lost all his money gambling (which it is, when one plays in the stock market), then that's his fault. No one else. Just because a company's stock sky rockets, doesn't mean it won't drop as fast, either.

AMD cannot afford another Barcelona type delay. Not saying that Deneb has a bug or anything, but any product delay is not good for them. The launch of Barcelona, then delay, hurt AMD pretty badly. If Deneb is delayed or not sampling as this article (and others I have seen) claims, then this could be a very bad thing for AMD, no doubt.

@groo - Yes, any monopoly is not good, but this isn't an Intel monopoly thing...it's an AMD execution thing.
June 4, 2008 5:01:11 PM

I was commenting on the forseable concequences of AMD's continual blunders.

Intel has a monopoly on the highend. it looks like AMD is trying to loose the middle ground too.

we already have a VIA, we don't need another.
June 4, 2008 5:08:44 PM

NMDante said:
If your friend lost all his money gambling (which it is, when one plays in the stock market), then that's his fault. No one else. Just because a company's stock sky rockets, doesn't mean it won't drop as fast, either.


Uh.....I don't think he was blaming anyone. Just providing an example of AMD's abysmal state.
June 4, 2008 5:18:34 PM

groo said:
I was commenting on the forseable concequences of AMD's continual blunders.

Intel has a monopoly on the highend. it looks like AMD is trying to loose the middle ground too.

we already have a VIA, we don't need another.


I see. I apologize for my haste to prevent another Intel monopoly thing.

Yes, AMD's missteps are painful to watch at times. Look at how many executives that have left prior to and since Barcelona's launch. It hasn't been pretty for AMD, and a lot of people are waiting for them to turn the ship around.
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June 4, 2008 5:21:28 PM

the linked articles read more like a blog post than actual news.

AMD is/was supposed to come out with the "Griffin" mobile processor at Compputex as well, but there is still no news about that, yet. There also hasn't been much Computex news about the 4850 and 4870, yet.

So...with that said, any naysaying should be taken with a grain of salt...after all, they've got until 6/7 when Computex ends...
June 4, 2008 5:36:17 PM

i think somewhere in the future Nvidia will come into play in CPU market.hopefully!

yeah got the same view as you chunkymonster.no 4780 or 4850.i swear they got sample shipping already somewhere on earth.but im thinking is the driver for both AMD and Nvidia is so bad thats why those demo machine dont have 3d mark o6 or vantage install.because it will just cause another stir.

groo im not complaining about the AMD fall just saying the situation to reflect the overall AMD's position.
June 4, 2008 6:27:23 PM

iluvgillgill said:
is it AMD cannot afford another product delay or is it AMD cannot afford to make another product?share prices isnt great.one of my mate lost all his money on the supposedly profitting AMD.but who knows....

If he lost all his money he should not be trying to buy and sale stocks to start with.
For those people who bought AMD a few weeks back the stock is about 40% higher right now and the NYSE still about 3 hours untill it closes.

AMD stocks have made me far more income than Intc (Intel) each year.
June 4, 2008 6:44:22 PM

iluvgillgill said:
i think somewhere in the future Nvidia will come into play in CPU market.hopefully!

yeah got the same view as you chunkymonster.no 4780 or 4850.i swear they got sample shipping already somewhere on earth.but im thinking is the driver for both AMD and Nvidia is so bad thats why those demo machine dont have 3d mark o6 or vantage install.because it will just cause another stir.

groo im not complaining about the AMD fall just saying the situation to reflect the overall AMD's position.


It will be tough for NVIDIA to move into the x86 market due to licensing restrictions.

While x86 is not the best technical CPU design at the moment, it wins due to software compatibility.
The reason why the Itanium failed, even though it did run Windows.
June 4, 2008 7:51:47 PM

did you know start making the Tegra CPU.so Nvidia sure will come into the CPU market soon.
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June 4, 2008 8:01:16 PM

Hey, if AMD goes down how soon can we expect nVidia to come to the CPU area?
June 4, 2008 8:11:44 PM

AMD is not going down any soon
June 4, 2008 8:45:05 PM


Personally I didn't find this "sad news" as the OP suggests.

They are scheduled to release 45nm the second half of the year. That means July through December for those of you that are chronologically challenged. Last time I looked it was June. June is in the first half of the year and not the second half. AMD has more than 6 months to release something in 2H08 before being "late" on their current release schedule.

It is good to see that they are taking their time.

June 4, 2008 9:01:29 PM

Shadow703793 said:
Hey, if AMD goes down how soon can we expect nVidia to come to the CPU area?



No way, what with recent going ons with Nvidia and Intel will never lisence X86 technology needed to run all pcs of yesterday, today and tomorrow..


Will Nvidia follow 3dfx and get too cocky for its own good.
June 4, 2008 9:42:35 PM

the deneb is due the 3rd quarter of 2008.and supposedly be display on computex which is happen on the 3rd quarter of the year(aka 2nd half of the year)

if the chip is not ready for mass production they still should have a WORKING sample to just display on IT show like this.even Nehalem is not fully ready for every market but they still manage to showcase a working system.

and you mention 2nd half of the year,it is true the mass production is happenning at the 4th quarter of 2008 as suggested in the link i gave.but from earlier news AMD said that they should have the Deneb working demostrated at computex which again they failed so far.but there are still time for the computex.we will wait and see.
June 4, 2008 9:44:14 PM

Harry-Plopper said:
No way, what with recent going ons with Nvidia and Intel will never lisence X86 technology needed to run all pcs of yesterday, today and tomorrow..


Will Nvidia follow 3dfx and get too cocky for its own good.


what if they dont run on X86 technology.if you have followed in this forum Jaydeejohn have posted a link of GPU working to encode video.it maybe limited now but as you can see Nvidia is moving into other parts of computing other than just rendering 3D graphics.
June 4, 2008 9:53:42 PM

keithlm said:
Personally I didn't find this "sad news" as the OP suggests.

They are scheduled to release 45nm the second half of the year. That means July through December for those of you that are chronologically challenged. Last time I looked it was June. June is in the first half of the year and not the second half. AMD has more than 6 months to release something in 2H08 before being "late" on their current release schedule.

It is good to see that they are taking their time.
As I recall, It takes roughly 6 to 8 weeks to complete a wafer run, and about 3 months or more to ramp to volume production. When you start thinking along these timeframes, there isn't quite as much time as you would think. Sure, there is still time to hit their target, but not a lot. "Taking their time" is anything but good ATM.

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June 4, 2008 9:56:52 PM

AMD ships 45-nm Shanghai, Deneb chips
03/04/2008
http://www.eetimes.com/news/semi/showArticle.jhtml?arti...
Quote:
Advanced Micro Devices on Tuesday said samples of its first 45-nanometer processors have been shipped to computer manufacturers, and the company is on track to start production in the second half of the year.

AMD plans to initially release two quad-core processors, one server chip codenamed Shanghai; and the other a desktop processor codenamed Deneb.


AMD's Puma prepares to pounce
June 3, 2008
http://techreport.com/articles.x/14858
Quote:
The various components of the Puma platform will be largely familiar to those who know AMD's desktop products, but the big exception here is the new mobile processor design, code-named "Griffin."

Griffin is a mix of old and new, combining a pair of K8-style execution cores with Phenom-style glue logic and power-saving measures. The chipset itself is manufactured on AMD's 65nm SOI process, and each core packs 1MB of L2 cache, for a total of 2MB L2 per chip.

AMD says this new mobile processor has three independent power planes, one for each CPU core and a third for its integrated north bridge (with a HyperTransport link and memory controller). Griffin can scale voltage up and down as needed, in response to demand, for each of these three power planes.

The north bridge supports HyperTransport 3.0, for added bandwidth, and it can drop from 16 lanes to eight, or even disconnect itself temporarily, in order to conserve power.....

Today's announcement is just the Puma platform's formal introduction. Most products based on the platform are likely to be announced in the next six to eight weeks, and AMD expects products to be shipping in time for the back-to-school buying season.


I saw an update on the 48xx video cards that the release has been bumped from the 18th to the 23rd of this month - the reason given was so that the hd4850 and hd4870 could be released on the same day. nVidia decided to to bump their release of the GT200s (9900 GTX?) to the 17th to get the jump on AMD ....

It appears that AMD distributors are a bit 'torqued' because 10's of thousands of hd48xx's are loaded in the channel ....


I'm starting to wonder about ol' Gill....he might be the next 'Baghdad Bob' :pt1cable: 
June 4, 2008 10:05:38 PM

Maybe they are preventing another TLB-like bug, doing things carefully and with time.
6 to 8 weeks are 2 months for wafer run + 3 months of volume production = 5 months.

there's almost 7 months from now to Christmas, so they are "in time"... And I prefer results over a rush release, but anyway, they better start the process now, as I haven't counted the "delay" factor which may be possible. Specially from AMD.
June 4, 2008 10:27:49 PM

well if the Deneb chip is being ship why didnt AMD display them on Computex its a good chance to reestablish their product to the world.obviouslt they've some sort of problem.and that means problems other then the CPU itself.maybe mobo support?BIOS support?

and that news you gave is back in April all these time they cant manage to get one on show?come on get real!
June 4, 2008 10:45:45 PM

Perhaps they weren't shipped and they just "mis-informed" everyone as to keep them stock prices from dropping....As we speak the executives at AMD are selling there shares :) 
June 4, 2008 10:46:21 PM

If they haven't already.....
June 5, 2008 2:43:12 AM

if anyone is still buying........lol
June 5, 2008 11:32:57 AM

This doesn't mean anything. The question is not when they release it, but when they will really ship it. AMD has a record of shooting blanks.
June 6, 2008 5:11:00 AM

well it has been ship in April but still dont see a shade of it anywhere.so i think the news has been lying about it.or they've been fooled by AMD!LOL
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June 6, 2008 2:22:56 PM

Harry-Plopper said:
No way, what with recent going ons with Nvidia and Intel will never lisence X86 technology needed to run all pcs of yesterday, today and tomorrow..


Will Nvidia follow 3dfx and get too cocky for its own good.


Agreed. nVidia is pushing and Intel does not have to licsense x86 to them. In my thoughts nVidia is screwed if they keep acting like they are now.

iluvgillgill said:
what if they dont run on X86 technology.if you have followed in this forum Jaydeejohn have posted a link of GPU working to encode video.it maybe limited now but as you can see Nvidia is moving into other parts of computing other than just rendering 3D graphics.




Um...... Lets see. nVidia hase the GPGPU thing going and all of the sudden the entire market has to stop and rewrite all their software for this? There is a reason why Intels Itanium true 64bit CPU failed. Becuase it was not a x86-64. It was a true 64bit CPU that the software vendors would have to recode for completely. So it doesn't matter what nVidias GPGPU can do they wont be able to change the entire market unless it can just run all x86 based software.
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June 6, 2008 6:52:29 PM

Quote:
nVidia hase the GPGPU thing going and all of the sudden the entire market has to stop and rewrite all their software for this? There is a reason why Intels Itanium true 64bit CPU failed. Becuase it was not a x86-64. It was a true 64bit CPU that the software vendors would have to recode for completely. So it doesn't matter what nVidias GPGPU can do they wont be able to change the entire market unless it can just run all x86 based software.

True, but what If the GPU was able to use a emualator like system to run x86 code?

Also currently nVidia uses C coding on CUDA so GPU computing may not be that hard.
Quote:


* Standard C programming language enabled on a GPU
* Unified hardware and software solution for parallel computing on CUDA-enabled NVIDIA GPUs
* CUDA compatible GPUs range from lower power notebook GPUs to high performance, multi-GPU systems
* CUDA-enabled GPUs support the Parallel Data Cache and Thread Execution Manager
* Standard numerical libraries for FFT (Fast Fourier Transform) and BLAS (Basic Linear Algebra Subroutines)
* Dedicated CUDA driver for computing
* Optimized direct upload and download path from the CPU to CUDA-enabled GPU
* CUDA driver interoperates with OpenGL and DirectX graphics drivers
* Support for Linux 32/64-bit and Windows XP 32/64-bit operating systems
* Direct driver and assembly level access through CUDA for research and language development

http://www.nvidia.com/object/cuda_learn.html
June 7, 2008 9:49:56 AM

iluvgillgill said:
what if they dont run on X86 technology.if you have followed in this forum Jaydeejohn have posted a link of GPU working to encode video.it maybe limited now but as you can see Nvidia is moving into other parts of computing other than just rendering 3D graphics.



But its the X86 license thats important here

The most common chip in the world that runs all os's is x86 compatible..

that is Apple, Windows and Linux are all x86 based

linux / xenix / unix has worked on other processing technology but mainstreme its x86.

as far as i know AMD, IBM, Via still have this license which they paid to Intel.. If there is anyone else, let me know guys / girls..
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June 7, 2008 6:10:52 PM

Sun may also have an x86 license but I'm not sure.
June 7, 2008 10:32:10 PM

Shadow703793 said:
Sun may also have an x86 license but I'm not sure.


I have just read somewhere that nvidia want to buy via..

Now if this happends nvidia will have Intels X86 license they are looking for if a clause in the origional x86 contract doesnt include a buy out transaction clause......


How about this then

If Nvidia lent some of its design engineers ( which are the best for GPU design IMHO and Nvidias GPUs are far technological superior to Intels cpu in comparison ) to AMD on developing the next new Phenom then we could see Intel getting a bit worried... if this was legal who knows

Intel should have bought Nvidia years ago when they first talked about it...

Remember Nintendo and the Playstation senario.. Nintendo upset Sony with a Snes / Famicom addon and created the Playstation... the rest was history...and nearly the end of Nintendo. It was only Pokemon and gameboy that kept them alive.... N64 although great sold little and so did the Gamecube ( both had much better games than the PS)


June 8, 2008 12:58:22 AM

Harry-Plopper said:

If Nvidia lent some of its design engineers ( which are the best for GPU design IMHO and Nvidias GPUs are far technological superior to Intels cpu in comparison ) to AMD on developing the next new Phenom then we could see Intel getting a bit worried... if this was legal who knows



What you are talking about here would be a joint venture, an no it would not be illegal. It is however extremely unlikely to happen at least for the development of a CPU. There have been some rumors recently about Nvidia starting to cooperate with AMD again even though they are now a direct competitor after the acquisition of ATI. Most recently the rumor has been that Nvidia is offering a free license of PhysX to AMD/ATI on the condition that ATI cards adopt the use of CUDA. While this is still a rumor at this point (and one released by Fudzilla no less) it does make some sense. Nvidia has been championing the use of CUDA as a way to offload many computationally intensive tasks such as media encoding to the GPU instead of the CPU.

If Nvidia could convince ATI to use CUDA as well, there could be a scenario where nearly all of the discrete graphics cards on the market would have this capability. If this happens then there is a real possibility that many developers would start releasing software to take advantage of this, thereby "devaluing" the performance of the CPU. This could potentially pose a big problem for Intel if Nvidia/ATI could roll this out before Intel has Larabee ready.

This is all speculation of course, but its an interesting possibility to discuss nonetheless.
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June 8, 2008 5:05:32 PM

^Indeed. I would love to see the day when some body writes a video encoder running on a GPU. Now that you mentioned, why doesn't some open source ppl. start this? I would if I could, but my knowledge is at best when it comes to programing is intermediate.
June 8, 2008 6:44:10 PM

Shadow703793 said:
^Indeed. I would love to see the day when some body writes a video encoder running on a GPU. Now that you mentioned, why doesn't some open source ppl. start this? I would if I could, but my knowledge is at best when it comes to programing is intermediate.


Because all the good open source programmers have real jobs now.

Word, Playa.
June 8, 2008 9:17:13 PM

For those of you who think AMD needs to get Deneb out the door - give your head a shake.
Barcelona is thier money maker now. They can not afford to do anything that might change that.
Why showcase Shanghai, if it makes people think about waiting. That would be playing into Intel's hands. AMD needs to milk barcelona until it doesn't sell every chip before it's even a wafer start.
When that day comes, Shanghai better be ready, and shine brighter than the sun.
Let Deneb wait till it's needed.
June 9, 2008 4:03:13 AM

endyen said:
For those of you who think AMD needs to get Deneb out the door - give your head a shake.
Barcelona is thier money maker now. They can not afford to do anything that might change that.
Why showcase Shanghai, if it makes people think about waiting. That would be playing into Intel's hands. AMD needs to milk barcelona until it doesn't sell every chip before it's even a wafer start.
When that day comes, Shanghai better be ready, and shine brighter than the sun.
Let Deneb wait till it's needed.


I'm sorry? Wait until Deneb is needed? You don't think that the possible cost savings of a shrink to 45nm of Barcelona, the new compatibility with DDR3, and more cache is not needed now?

Is AMD really making tons of money to justify "milking" Bareclona? Are they? You act as if Barcelona is going to take them out of the red, and into the black by the end of the year. It's ridiculous to say "Why showcase Shanghai", when AMD themselves pushed Shanghai and Deneb earlier this year.

They need a solid showing of Shanghai and Deneb, and Computex was the place to highlight their advances over Barcelona. That's what technology tradeshows are about. To not show their upcoming products could put doubts in vendors minds. To claim that Barcelona is doing so great, that AMD doesn't need to showcase Shanghai and Deneb - those are the people who need to shake their heads.
June 9, 2008 7:53:10 AM

endyen said:
For those of you who think AMD needs to get Deneb out the door - give your head a shake.
Barcelona is thier money maker now. They can not afford to do anything that might change that.
Why showcase Shanghai, if it makes people think about waiting. That would be playing into Intel's hands. AMD needs to milk barcelona until it doesn't sell every chip before it's even a wafer start.
When that day comes, Shanghai better be ready, and shine brighter than the sun.
Let Deneb wait till it's needed.


Like... now?
a b à CPUs
June 9, 2008 8:41:13 AM

^ shall be out in about Q3-ish but you know the amzing AMD delay phenomena. Clock for clock there won't be much improvement but it should scale better... just think of the perfomance as roughly Q6600-ish clock for clock... but that still doesn't help AMD...
June 9, 2008 3:45:12 PM

if AMD goes under in the near future (I doubt it) someone will buy the corpse for the x86 license. kind of like what happens with bars and liquor licenses, and Chrysler buying AMC just for Jeep.

eventualy technology will advance far enough beyond x86 that it wont matter either way. something new will happen, maybe using x86 emulators for a while until programs run the new code.
June 9, 2008 4:38:20 PM

groo said:
if AMD goes under in the near future (I doubt it) someone will buy the corpse for the x86 license. kind of like what happens with bars and liquor licenses, and Chrysler buying AMC just for Jeep.
I think you need to do some research on Change of Control clauses.

groo said:
eventualy technology will advance far enough beyond x86 that it wont matter either way. something new will happen, maybe using x86 emulators for a while until programs run the new code.
:heink:  You make it sound so simple - it's a bit more complicated than you seem to think. Your "eventually" would probably take at least 10 years to run it's course.

June 9, 2008 5:21:31 PM

please fill us all in on the wording of the x86 license wording and restrictions.

besides, if AMD goes down, Via isn't an effective competior to Intel. Governments around the world wont let Intel have an unregulated monopoly.
June 9, 2008 5:55:49 PM

groo said:
please fill us all in on the wording of the x86 license wording and restrictions.

besides, if AMD goes down, Via isn't an effective competior to Intel. Governments around the world wont let Intel have an unregulated monopoly.



Yeah but if AMD does go, then VIA will get some heavy investment by some big player in the electronics industry...Samsung for example.

Intel could rip the agreement up as it did with AMD in the early days...

Intel are not stupid, they have been doing this business for longer than anyone else in making cpus.. They are shrewd and only protecting their interests at what ever cost there is..

I know if Nvidia got the license then it would be a serious threat to Intel...

Who knows, i feel that AMD isnt sustainable for that much longer in its current form... Especially after delays after delays

At this rate Deneb wont be out soon..... when they have only just got the Phenom ready after 2 years and its dissapointing to say the least.. By the time Phenom gets multi threaded apps it needs Intel would have made billions on Core 2 and Nehalem would be far superior in every way even than the new Deneb...

June 9, 2008 6:26:22 PM

groo said:
please fill us all in on the wording of the x86 license wording and restrictions.
:sarcastic:  Goodness, ever hear of Google? Section 6.2(b)(7):
Quote:
A party hereto may terminate this Agreement upon sixty (60) days written notice of termination to the other party given at any time upon or after: .... (7) the other party undergoes a Change of Control.
Perhaps one of hte reasons why AMD went the more expensive route of purchasing ATI rather than doing a merger?

You can read it all here: http://contracts.corporate.findlaw.com/agreements/amd/intel.license.2001.01.01.html

groo said:
besides, if AMD goes down, Via isn't an effective competior to Intel. Governments around the world wont let Intel have an unregulated monopoly.
A monopoly wouldn't be a problem unless it can be proven that it will harm consumers. Whether or not such would be the case, I'm sure that some regulatory bodies may be predisposed to that point of view.

So it worse came to worse, VIA ( :lol:  ) or IBM could pick up the pieces - they have x86 licenses. I suspect, though, that another entity could step in and entice Intel to the bargaining table. I suppose they could be forced to license to another entity, but that might involve years of legal fights and appeals.
June 9, 2008 8:52:54 PM

i heard the Deneb will be out in November i think.still more then 3months wait.
June 9, 2008 8:56:25 PM

there is no way of stopping a monopoly from the regulating body as long as Intel play it fairly, which Intel doesnt need to play dirty if AMD is out of business.so the monopoly would be possible.and i cant think of a competitor other then AMD can ccmpete againtst Intel.
June 9, 2008 9:07:06 PM

iluvgillgill said:
i heard the Deneb will be out in November i think.still more then 3months wait.



add another six months to make the thing work in real world situations...


looking forward to tlb2 error, Not.

Im treating all AMDs future chips with contempt untill suprised otherwise.
June 9, 2008 9:20:00 PM

iluvgillgill said:
there is no way of stopping a monopoly from the regulating body as long as Intel play it fairly, which Intel doesnt need to play dirty if AMD is out of business.so the monopoly would be possible.and i cant think of a competitor other then AMD can ccmpete againtst Intel.
Right. With regards to the consumer, people seem up in arms about what Intel might do with prices if all serious competitors fall out of the running. While I would expect a modest increase they cant turn the screws too hard - they still need to sell chips and must price them accordingly.
June 10, 2008 1:13:21 AM

AMD is behind in the cpu race against Intel,but being bought out or bancrupt,not happenning.If you look at how AMD is postion itself atm,there is no way they are going away.The 2 co. that benifit from AMD's misstep are at total war.
!