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3.2ghz phenom's avaliable!!

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June 6, 2008 2:51:21 AM

That article makes absolutely no sense, I tried reading it twice to make sense of it. And it was still like wha?
June 6, 2008 2:57:47 AM

Quote:
WTF...3ghz and 3.2ghz stock with advanced oc'ing features!!


Not.
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June 6, 2008 2:59:01 AM

doomturkey said:
That article makes absolutely no sense, I tried reading it twice to make sense of it. And it was still like wha?



Something to do with those extra pin's on the processor. Even my 780g mobo support's it. I guess if i had the 9850 in my rig when this tech get's released it's just a bios flash away.

You get 3.2ghz with the new chipset!
June 6, 2008 2:59:48 AM

joefriday said:
Quote:
WTF...3ghz and 3.2ghz stock with advanced oc'ing features!!


Not.


How about explain?
June 6, 2008 3:07:14 AM

Yeah i read that too.

Then i woke up.

I waz dreaming, justl Like amd
a c 96 à CPUs
June 6, 2008 3:09:43 AM

xx12amanxx said:
How about explain?


The issue with the sb600 - sb700 - sb7xx (and OC instability) is related to the phase lock loop (PLL).

All AMD board timing is referenced to the internal cpu clock. The clock distribution is balanced so that each signal clock arrives at every endpoint simultaneously regardless of bus speed.

Every signal along every trace is in fixed relationship to the phase of the "reference" signal. A phase-locked loop circuit responds to both the frequency and the phase of the input signals, automatically raising and/or lowering the frequency. In this way regardless of frequency (PCI, PCIe, USB, HTT, CPUCLK, NB, SB, etc) the timing of each cycle starts and ends in a congruent fashion.

The signals are fashioned and fixed by their 'skew characteristics' (think of this as variable PLL signals running with the fixed PLL). When the different signals are mucked-up the variance between the fixed PLL and the varible PLL signals is called 'jitter'.

When OC'ing the Phenom with the mucked-up south bridge PLL I believe the jitter accumulation became too great leading to instability and system failure. I gather this because all the sb7xx fixes involve the sb PLL timing.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it ... :pt1cable: 

edit: I can't spell ....
June 6, 2008 3:11:16 AM

Wisecracker said:
The issue with the sb600 - sb700 - sb7xx (and OC instability) is related to the phase lock loop (PLL).

All AMD board timing is referenced to the internal cpu clock. The clock distribution is balanced so that each signal clock arrives at every endpoint simultaneously regardless of bus speed.

Every signal along every trace is in fixed relationship to the phase of the "reference" signal. A phase-locked loop circuit responds to both the frequency and the phase of the input signals, automatically raising and/or lowering the frequency. In this way regardless of frequency (PCI, PCIe, USB, HTT, CPUCLK, NB, SB, etc) the timing of each cycle starts and ends in a congruent fashion.

The signals are fashioned and fixed by their 'skew characteristics' (think of this as variable PLL signals running with the fixed PLL). When the different signals are mucked-up the variance between the fixed PLL and the varibale PLL signals is called 'jitter'.

When OC'ing the Phenom with the mucked-up south bridge PLL I believe the jitter accumulation became too great leading to instability and system failure. I gather this because all the sb7xx fixes involve the sb PLL timing.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it ... :pt1cable: 


LoL fair enough.


June 6, 2008 3:33:54 AM

So its not a thermal issue at all, but a timing issue created by the sb?
June 6, 2008 3:39:24 AM

I can't wait to see some benchmarks of this. It seems such a weird strategy to sell motherboards based on what speed your cpu will run. I mean what was AMD waiting for, for the past year they've been churning out underclocked phenoms and they just now decide to throw out this six hidden pins concept? I guess they needed to announce something in the wake of anands nehlalem preview.
June 6, 2008 4:03:06 AM

So I was reading through the article and it says that the SB 600 chips don't have this feature, then it says that the 7xx series northbridge chips support this. Well, all 790FX, 780G motherboards have the southbridge 600 chip. The article says that you need a special southbridge chip to achieve this magical overclock, an SB700 for +200mhz and an SB 750 for 400mhz. I kinda get it, the article is very poorly written though and still up for interpretation.

My understanding is, when AMD launches the SB 700 and 750 chips for motherboards, we will finally see this magical auto OC.
I guess?
June 6, 2008 4:03:20 AM

Scarchunk said:
I can't wait to see some benchmarks of this. It seems such a weird strategy to sell motherboards based on what speed your cpu will run. I mean what was AMD waiting for, for the past year they've been churning out underclocked phenoms and they just now decide to throw out this six hidden pins concept? I guess they needed to announce something in the wake of anands nehlalem preview.


I don't think this was in response to Anand's review. In fact I believe that Fudzilla and the Inquirer reported on this several weeks ago. I think most people just didn't take it seriously at the time since those aren't exactly the most reputable sources on information.
a c 96 à CPUs
June 6, 2008 4:05:04 AM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
So its not a thermal issue at all, but a timing issue created by the sb?


I imagine the thermals have an impact but the southbridge PLL problems have been a big deal.

A slight bump in voltage to the sb(600) PLL seem to get folks another 100-200MHz. SB700 was a little worse for OC'ing from what I understand. SB750 is the 'big fix' for all the sb timing issues.

I'm not sure what the change in BIOS is all about. I think some vendors (like MSI on the 790fx) had the sb PLL voltage adjustments but other vendors did not.

AMD just doesn't have the resources to work out all the kinks before launches kinda making beta testers out of early adopters. If the article is correct it's good news for us all. 3.2GHz Phenoms on a consistent basis is a pretty big deal ...
June 6, 2008 4:11:42 AM

When the 780s were released, everyone had it bad on the reuse of the 600sb. Then I saw the 700 and it wasnt much better. So this looks really nice
a c 96 à CPUs
June 6, 2008 4:15:48 AM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
When the 780s were released, everyone had it bad on the reuse of the 600sb. Then I saw the 700 and it wasnt much better. So this looks really nice


I think I read in a report that the sb700 timing problem was so bad the chips had to have a crystal installed in them to bring everything back to 'phase' - kinda sounds like FUD to me but who knows?
June 6, 2008 4:23:16 AM

Unfortunately Im not privy to the details, but a crystal could do it, but yea, who knows? Maybe like a miniture High Freq Stabilizer heheh
June 6, 2008 4:30:16 AM

So I was about to ask, which mobos have the SB700 chip, so I looked before I asked and found that only the 780G mobos seem to have SB700, 790X & FX have SB600. Kinda weird, but lets see this SB750 chip!
+400mhz ftw
June 6, 2008 4:57:56 AM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
Unfortunately Im not privy to the details, but a crystal could do it, but yea, who knows? Maybe like a miniture High Freq Stabilizer heheh
PLL uses a crystal...everything uses a crystal.

Kinda funny after all the BS about Intel changing sockets.
June 6, 2008 5:04:02 AM

Wasnt sure in micro arch. I know its used everywhere else, makes sense
June 6, 2008 5:08:35 AM

basically AMD fail on the Phenom and had to make some official junk to OC the CPU so it will run slow rather then slower than it was before.
June 6, 2008 5:13:06 AM

It looks like theyve reached their previous high at 90nm, Im wondering if theyll go a lil faster yet, tho they are limited with SOI
June 6, 2008 5:41:54 AM

iluvgillgill said:
basically AMD fail on the Phenom and had to make some official junk to OC the CPU so it will run slow rather then slower than it was before.


Actually, I think this is more indicative that AMD has had Phenoms capable of running stock at 3Ghz for a while but was forced to underclock them due to instability in the chipset.
June 6, 2008 5:43:37 AM

Er... Say anybody noticed that the top end Phenom is a 2.5ghz at 125W. Can anybody imagine what kinda power it will drain at 3.2ghz and what kind of cooling it will need.

Edit: I know the 2.8ghz is a upcoming chip but it will probably have a higher TDP
June 6, 2008 5:46:09 AM

xx12amanxx said:
How about explain?

Simple. 3.0 and 3.2GHz ARE NOT stock. They are already overclocked. You said 3ghz and 3.2ghz stock with advanced oc'ing features!! Not true. It's 2.8 stock on this vaporware AMD CPU, with anything above that being overclocked, as clearly stated in the article. Your sentence sounds like your implying that AMD will have 3.0 and 3.2GHz CPUs ready to go at stock speeds, with overclocking beyond that point.

At the topic at hand, since this entire article is just hearsay, and written by Theo, I don't believe a bit of it.
June 6, 2008 5:52:55 AM

Guess we will wait it out then
June 6, 2008 6:20:16 AM

joefriday said:
Simple. 3.0 and 3.2GHz ARE NOT stock. They are already overclocked. You said 3ghz and 3.2ghz stock with advanced oc'ing features!! Not true. It's 2.8 stock on this vaporware AMD CPU, with anything above that being overclocked, as clearly stated in the article. Your sentence sounds like your implying that AMD will have 3.0 and 3.2GHz CPUs ready to go at stock speeds, with overclocking beyond that point.

At the topic at hand, since this entire article is just hearsay, and written by Theo, I don't believe a bit of it.

The only bit of it I believe, is where it says the author's name.
June 6, 2008 6:52:47 AM

Alright stop the madness. Repeat after me, AMD IS GOOD, AMD IS GREAT. AMD WILL GET THEIR SH!T TOGETHER AND SAVE US FROM "USURY" PRICING FROM A MONOPOLISTIC INTEL.
June 6, 2008 6:52:49 AM

It's time to sell the old QX9650 at get myself one of these beauties.
Well done AMD, i new you wouldn't let me down.
June 6, 2008 7:34:52 AM

I so think somebody is in for a bit of a disappointment.
June 6, 2008 7:52:57 AM

That just may turn out to be the limit of the value end on Nehalem. Not sure about the clocks tho
June 6, 2008 8:05:15 AM

fergie said:
It's time to sell the old QX9650 at get myself one of these beauties.
Well done AMD, i new you wouldn't let me down.



LOL..... If only intel quad cores could reach such awesome clock speeds


a b à CPUs
June 6, 2008 8:47:23 AM

UncleDave said:
That article reads like thunderman wrote it

:whistle: 

I should have known. Both of their names start with "Th", that must mean they are the same person! :kaola: 

I wonder what AMDs next trick will be, give Hector another pay rise?
a b à CPUs
June 6, 2008 9:00:14 AM

I believe Theo, Fuad, and Charlie may believe ...

They are a great bunch of guys ... often out for a bit of fun.

Funny how they collectively break most of the cutting news stories in PC hardware ... that is a fact.

If you read the Inq site is is mostly humour ... idiots who take all of the content seriously really help confirm the fact that there are many stupid people on the planet.

None of the other hacks often beat them to a story concerning NVidia or AMD / ATI.

You might want to ask yourself why is that so?

Yes they do get a few wrong ... the 30K 3D06 score being a bad prank gone wrong ... It wasn't the boot of anyone's car either ... actually none.

I know their formula ... they take the engineers out and get them so pissed they fess up.

Thats my kind of work ... hard ... but somebody's gotta take one for the team.

I am a bit suspicious this may be another one of their pranks ... seen anyone in a bunny suit lately??

And the writing style is deliberate ... if your not into English tabloids you won't understand.
:) 
a b à CPUs
June 6, 2008 9:11:18 AM

^ lol
Those british boffins make me laugh. Besides I doubt the stuff is true tho... its just imagination...

Besides, I doubt a new South bridge can decrease TDP...
a c 96 à CPUs
June 6, 2008 12:39:36 PM

joefriday said:
Simple. 3.0 and 3.2GHz ARE NOT stock. They are already overclocked. You said 3ghz and 3.2ghz stock with advanced oc'ing features!! Not true. It's 2.8 stock on this vaporware AMD CPU, with anything above that being overclocked, as clearly stated in the article. Your sentence sounds like your implying that AMD will have 3.0 and 3.2GHz CPUs ready to go at stock speeds, with overclocking beyond that point.

At the topic at hand, since this entire article is just hearsay, and written by Theo, I don't believe a bit of it.


amdfangirl said:
^ lol
Those british boffins make me laugh. Besides I doubt the stuff is true tho... its just imagination...

Besides, I doubt a new South bridge can decrease TDP...


The AMD 7xx chipsets are actually decent chipsets inspite of their voltage and timing issues when overclocking. It remains to be seen how this all comes together.

Heretofore (is that a word? - LOL) it has been necessary to crank up the volts on the 700-series chipsets (nb, sb, cpu, etc) to increase processor/system speed. I'm not Dr. Science but I guess the voltage increases were necessary to overcome the timing issues.

So if by combination of BIOS and SB-chip changes does that reduce the need for extra volts? I guess we'll find out ....

As far as the ""OVERCLOCK"" there are two ways to do it. The AMD reference clock is 200MHz with processor speed determined by the multiplier. You either increase the reference clock or increase the multiplier.

Increasing the clock is ""overclocking"". The arguement can be made that by simply increasing the multiplier you are not techically overclocking the system - only increasing the processor speed - therefore reducing the need for extra 'voltage' for that extra 'speed'.

The article presents the question of how power consumption and heat dissipation will be affected. I guess we shall see ...
June 6, 2008 12:58:17 PM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
It looks like theyve reached their previous high at 90nm, Im wondering if theyll go a lil faster yet, tho they are limited with SOI


yeah i think SOI is the limit,because the CEO of AMD thinks that SOI is the way to go.actually they've failed twice for the last 2 gen of AMD processor.it cant be the technology is not mature enough,its given them more then 2 years to refine the process and the phenom was still suffering from eletricmigration at higher speed.
a c 123 à CPUs
June 6, 2008 1:52:01 PM

Hmmm....... I find it interesting how the SB is whats holding Phenom back. Well that and I am sure the thermals are not benefiting them. Isn't the SB supposed to be the I/O hub? Like HDDs and such.

Either way I am doubting what this article says. Everyone stated the S700 SB was going to be better an what not and it didn't turn out so great.
a b à CPUs
June 6, 2008 3:22:02 PM

Baaah ... the Northbridge on the die not running at core tied to the L3 with high latency is the issue with Phenom.

Plus add the fact that Intel make faster and smaller transistors ... and much faster L1 / L2 cache and see why their single socket designs are better.

Once Intel sorted the prefetchers and shortened the pipes (ditched P4 for P-M) their design outpaced the A64.

Architecturally the K8 / K10 are only currently superior with more than 3 sockets in terms of scaling ... because of the HTT.

a b à CPUs
June 7, 2008 1:48:21 AM

Wisecracker said:

Increasing the clock is ""overclocking"". The arguement can be made that by simply increasing the multiplier you are not techically overclocking the system - only increasing the processor speed - therefore reducing the need for extra 'voltage' for that extra 'speed'.

But you are increasing the clock speed of the processor indirectly, so you could consider it "overclocking". I think a better word to use is "overmultiplying" :lol: 
a b à CPUs
June 7, 2008 1:55:30 AM

randomizer said:
But you are increasing the clock speed of the processor indirectly, so you could consider it "overclocking". I think a better word to use is "overmultiplying" :lol: 


:lol:  :lol:  Too much math
What would you consider overlocking then?
a b à CPUs
June 7, 2008 2:16:38 AM

amdfangirl said:

What would you consider overlocking then?

I'll assume that's a typo. I consider overclocking what we do when it's Daylight Savings time, increasing the clock by 1 hour :lol: 
June 7, 2008 2:21:13 AM

i think i will call it overclocking.because it all sounded too familiar to the hardware OC on MSI P35 Platinum that i had.change the jumper to select the default FSB for the processor thats in the socket.but in this case you dont have to do any jumper changing and you dont see the jumper at all.
a b à CPUs
June 7, 2008 2:27:20 AM

randomizer said:
I'll assume that's a typo. I consider overclocking what we do when it's Daylight Savings time, increasing the clock by 1 hour :lol: 


Overlocking:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overlock

touche
a b à CPUs
June 7, 2008 2:54:13 AM

I know what overlocking is, but I didn't expect it to come up in discussion here so I though it might have been a typo ;) 
a c 96 à CPUs
June 7, 2008 2:55:15 AM

jimmysmitty said:
Hmmm....... I find it interesting how the SB is whats holding Phenom back. Well that and I am sure the thermals are not benefiting them. Isn't the SB supposed to be the I/O hub? Like HDDs and such.

Either way I am doubting what this article says. Everyone stated the S700 SB was going to be better an what not and it didn't turn out so great.


AFAIK sb700 had more problems with timings than the sb600 - so much so that an external clock generator was considered to improve timing issues.


a b à CPUs
June 7, 2008 2:55:36 AM

Yup,
So do I! Sowing is one of many weird hobbies...
June 7, 2008 6:41:16 PM

amdfangirl said:
Yup,
So do I! Sowing is one of many weird hobbies...
You farm?
a c 96 à CPUs
June 7, 2008 9:02:25 PM

amdfangirl said:
Yup,
So do I! Sowing is one of many weird hobbies...


Zorg said:
You farm?


I didn't want to say anything.

I thought she was gettin' kinky with adult female swine

:love: 

a b à CPUs
June 7, 2008 11:18:23 PM

Zorg said:
You farm?


Misinterpretations are everything... I take care of my garden...

Wisecracker said:
I didn't want to say anything.

I thought she was gettin' kinky with adult female swine

:love: 


Wait... how... is that... :(  (nevermind...)

You know they should make a fan-club for me... so all the love requests end up in the spam folder instead of THG forums...
!