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(High Ghz Duel Cores Vs Tri and Quad) & Phenom On AM2 Boards

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June 6, 2008 11:18:54 PM

I am currently looking for a new CPU to replace a 4600X2 Windsor Core. I am looking at a 5000X2 BE, 6400X2 BE, 8450 X3, 9X00 X4 , or 9X50 X4. My current specifications are:

AMD 4600 X2
3 Gigabytes of G. Skill F2-6400CL5D
ATI 2900HD Pro VisionTek
ASRock ALiveNF7G-Full HD (Cheap But Works Good ;)  )
Ultra 650 Watt Power Supply
Some 300GB Hitachi Hard Drive
*Rosewill RCX-R1 Fan/Heat Sink

I was wondering if a 5000X2 BE would be the best upgrade because of low cost and ability to over clock easily to 3.1ish. But the new Brisbane cores look very tempting( for example:5600). Would the lower cache of the Brisbane cores make that much of a performance decrees compared to the 6000X2 or 6400X2? I mean like $40 worth of performance.

I noticed that the TLB Phenoms are very cheap on some popular online auction sites. I’ve seen 9500 go for $100. How much performance does this bug take away? Would the price be right for that kind of performance?

Lastly because of my AM2 board having a HT of 2000 how much performance would I loose with a processor designed to run on 3600 or 4000?

I greatly appreciate any answers, opinions, or concerns!

a b à CPUs
June 6, 2008 11:52:37 PM

It depends what application you intend to run. Multi-core mainly effects multi-tasking encoding and rendering. The lower cache of those processors will greatly effect gaming applications but not as much to other applications. The Phenom beats the Athlon X2 clock for clock but doesn't scale very high in terms of overclocking and the heat output is dreadful. However, if you decide that encoding is important an overclocked 5600+ or a 9500 will do the job well...

No, there won't be a huge performance decrease unless your running server and high memory applications...

I recommend the 5600+ with 2MB cache on the good old Windsor core...
June 7, 2008 12:53:08 AM

Would I notice a large upgrade with a "older" 5600 X2? Why would you not recomend the new Brisbane core? By the way I mostly do light gaming :) 
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June 7, 2008 12:57:47 AM

the older 5600 has more cache than the brisbane, however its 90nm so its hotter.
a b à CPUs
June 7, 2008 1:02:30 AM

Andy0014 said:
Would I notice a large upgrade with a "older" 5600 X2? Why would you not recomend the new Brisbane core? By the way I mostly do light gaming :) 


A little bit... I suppose you could overclock it...
June 7, 2008 1:08:24 AM

How well do the 5600 X2 overclock? I've gotten my 4600 X2 up to 2.873 Ghz stable. Could I expect an amost 500 Mhz increase from a 5600 X2?
a b à CPUs
June 7, 2008 1:14:50 AM

If you are currently running at 2.8GHZ you wouldn't expect a very big performance increase... stick with what you've got. The 5600+ would get up to about 3.2GHz... or even 3.4Ghz... but that's about it...
June 7, 2008 1:25:27 AM

How 'bout the Phenoms? Would the low clock speed be their down fall then?
June 7, 2008 1:27:52 AM

Why do you feel the need to upgrade? Game performance? Your processor should be able to keep up with current games @ 2.8GHz. A better graphics card would help you the most, if gaming.
June 7, 2008 1:31:30 AM

Well.....with great power comes great fan noise. It bothers me, so I would to update to ssomething more modern. This being my first none Intel processor on Intel motherboard it is also my first overclock. I fear for my processor. Mostly its keeping up with the Jones ;) 
a b à CPUs
June 7, 2008 1:56:55 AM

Andy0014 said:
How 'bout the Phenoms? Would the low clock speed be their down fall then?


Yup, they can barely keep up with your 2.8Ghz. Besides if you really wanna upgrade a Q6600 or an E2160 might be suitable...

Sorry I can't type quickly...
June 7, 2008 2:17:42 AM

Actually I'm gunning to "take" down a Q6600. A friend of mine has a build with a Q6600 in it and you can imagine the size of his ego currently. I believe I can beat his quad with a newer processor because he skimped on a lot of other components. So I begin to eye the AMD quads.
a b à CPUs
June 7, 2008 2:30:45 AM

You guys are wasting money. Oh well... if you were to upgrade I'd recommend waiting for a cheap 45nm Deneb or Propus. Then compare the pcs in benchies that benefit from AMD CPUs...

I'm evil am'nt I? Oh well that'll get you some nice bragging rights... as for me I shall stay on my 1.7GHZ Athlon...
June 7, 2008 2:39:08 AM

Running a 2100XP? ;) 
But the Phenom remain uncrippled in a AM2 board? How would putting a stock fan on a copper based heat sink effect the cooling efficiency?
a b à CPUs
June 7, 2008 2:59:22 AM

Athlon X2 BE-2400 =)
It won't lose much performance unless you use high memory applications and server stuff...
Are you replacing the stock heatsink with your Rosewill?
If so then use some 3rd party thermal paste.
June 7, 2008 3:19:55 AM

No I have the Rosewill on it now. (Artic Silver Paste) I want to take off the Rosewill fan (noisy :(  ) and put the stock fan on the Rosewill supplied heat sink. Thoughts?
a b à CPUs
June 7, 2008 3:24:41 AM

The stock fan doesn't come off anymore =( since the good old pre-Athlon 64 days... Anyways I suppose you could go for a standard 80mm fan. I dunno I'm really not into the whole heatsink thing. I just take the one that's the most silent. I suppose you could ask over at overclocking tho...
June 7, 2008 3:31:50 AM

Ok....didn't see that those were not screws :p 
So the best bet is an older 5600? I also know that the 2.8 GHz is really lucky for the older 4600.
a b à CPUs
June 7, 2008 3:39:00 AM

I suppose so... it won't really do much benefit tho... If I was you I'd wait until Deneb or Propus come out or even Kuma, a dual-core Phenom that clocks well.
June 7, 2008 3:51:02 AM

How long do I have to wait and will they be made for AM3?
a b à CPUs
June 7, 2008 3:59:00 AM

Nobody knows... sorry... and the dual core kuma will be AM2+ and Deneb and Propus should be AM3, which should be compatible with your motherboard.
a b à CPUs
June 7, 2008 4:44:00 AM

X4 9850 is the only way to go ... why ... its the fastest you can get (barring the 6400+ on single threaded apps) and is cheap.

All the AMD silicon is cheap ... so why buy a slower one?

Either one of the other ... I'd get the 9850 If I were in your position.

good luck
June 7, 2008 6:52:22 AM

amdfangirl said:
The stock fan doesn't come off anymore =( since the good old pre-Athlon 64 days... Anyways I suppose you could go for a standard 80mm fan. I dunno I'm really not into the whole heatsink thing. I just take the one that's the most silent. I suppose you could ask over at overclocking tho...



Thats funny cause I just unclipped a couple of stock heatsink fans recently from a couple of Opteron (socket 939) heatsinks. A 120mm x 35mm Arctic fan on a bracket does a much better job than the stock 70mm x 15mm fan!! The old Opteron (socket 939) were really sweet (solid copper with heatpipes and all).

Bob
July 7, 2008 9:39:47 PM

I had my old 3800+ OC to 3ghz and my 5600+ @ 2.8 is MUCH faster in encoding movies, etc.. Mainly due to the extra cache...
So even if you are at the same speed with the newer 5600+ with 2meg cache. you WILL see a difference in video editing, etc...
July 7, 2008 9:43:47 PM

I'd say a 5000+ BE would do nicely. You'd get a lot of bang for your buck.
a b à CPUs
July 7, 2008 9:57:49 PM

Andy0014 said:
Actually I'm gunning to "take" down a Q6600. A friend of mine has a build with a Q6600 in it and you can imagine the size of his ego currently. I believe I can beat his quad with a newer processor because he skimped on a lot of other components. So I begin to eye the AMD quads.

I've got bad news for you then: no matter which CPU you get, you won't really be able to take down his Q6600. If he overclocked, there's no hope, but even if he's running stock clocks, he will be roughly equal in speed to a 9850 X4 (overclocked even). Now, you can definitely make a faster overall computer, especially if he skimped on other stuff as you said, but CPU alone, the best you can really hope for is parity.

I'd go for the 9850 X4 BE BTW.
a c 126 à CPUs
July 8, 2008 12:07:05 AM

Andy0014 said:
Running a 2100XP? ;) 
But the Phenom remain uncrippled in a AM2 board? How would putting a stock fan on a copper based heat sink effect the cooling efficiency?


Well for you, the Phenom will be crippled a bit in an AM2 mobo with the slower HTT. But the biggest thing you need to look out for is full support. Since you said it yourself that your mobo is cheap the caps might not be able to handle the load of a 9750BE or higher. So always check the mobo site first to make sure it fully supports it.

As for you beating your friend, good luck. A Q6600 build even with 800MHz DDR2 and other components is not something you can run over easily.

Just to correct myself, it does look like yours has support for a 9850BE. And yes as CJ said if you want a Phenom go for a 9850BE.
a c 108 à CPUs
July 8, 2008 12:58:19 PM

What is your budget and where do you want to improve performance?

For 'free' a fresh install of WinXP will help. If you want to spend $150 combine your OS refresh with a WD Raptor hard drive and move your 300Gb drive (and 1/2 your paging file) to second 'data' drive status.

If you want to improve your gaming performance and are willing to spend $150-$200 you should upgrade your video to an HD4850.

With your cpu at 2.873 Ghz there is little to be gained from a dual core upgrade - less than 10% if you purchase an x2 5400+ and OC to 3.2GHz - so that does not seem like a practical investment in your rig. There is nothing really holding you back at nearly 2.9GHz. You should be happy with that :) 

A quad core upgrade only makes sense if the performance gains you wish to see are in applications which will run 4 parallel threads across those four cores - primarily video transcoding. 4 is not better than 2 in all other cases.

'Load balancing' across 4 cores is not multithread parallelism and will not improve your 'multitasking'. If you want to improve your multitasking install a 64-bit OS and upgrade your ram to 4-6Gb.
!