Gaming build -Q6600 / GA-P35-DS3 - THREAD NOW FINISHED - Thank you

[Josza]

-Edited 05/07/08 - 1:00 p.m. PDT

I appreciate the great responses I got from everyone. All questions have been answered in this thread.

Thanks again for helping me during the component selection process.

Josza


====================
-Edited 05/06/08 - 6:40 a.m. PDT-

Thank you all for the comments and suggestions. It is greatly appreciated!

I previously was under the impression that dual core at a higher clock was going to be better for gaming than a quad core at a lower clock, which is why I was basing the build around a E8400. I will now be changing the build to use the Q6600 instead based on all of your excellent feedback.

Main concepts remain:
No SLI/Crossfire
No major upgrades for 3 years (I don't mind changing a GPU or maybe single component, but don't want to have to change out the entire Mobo/CPU/RAM)
I'm new to Overclocking, so will not be pushing too far, and want to use conservative estimates on capabilities.
The main use for this build will be gaming (Age of Conan, Warhammer, etc.) - P.S. This will be for PVP play, so fast response is important.
I'll be using a 22" monitor, most likely at 1600x1050 res. (I think that is the native res..)

New questions:
1) If you were building today (with Q6600), would you choose the GA-P35-DS3L or possibly an x38 board such as GA-EX38-DS4 with a higher FSB and PCIe 2.0 compatibility?

2) If anyone is using the GA-EX38-DS4, will the XIGMATEK HDT-S1283 fit on it? If not, what heat sink are you using? (I've heard that the RAM slots are a little close to the CPU slot)

3) What Mobo would you use if building today? (Not going above 225$ price range is preferable.)

4) More comments on the importance, or lack thereof, of RAID 0 for a gaming rig.

Thank you all for your time and help in responding!


[Original post] -
I will no longer be using the E8400, but will now use the Q6600.
I will no longer be using the Artic Silver 5, but will now use MX-2 thermal grease.
==================
A very big 'Thank you' folks for reviewing this and providing your comments.

This build is for a Gaming machine to mainly run the upcoming Age of Conan and Warhammer games. I will not be multi-tasking, or editing videos, or any other big things. Just gaming and web surfing.
I am building this for the immediate future and don't want to spend a lot on trying to "future-proof" since I usually end up just building a whole new system every 3-5 years anyways. I usually just give away my older systems to family members (8 nieces and nephews), so I don't plan on reusing too many parts. (Although this time I'm going to spend a little extra on the Case and PSU, so may off-load the contents of this rig to a cheaper case & psu later.)

Main concepts:
No major upgrades for next 3 years. (Maybe the GPU if 'really' needed, but no RAM, CPU)
No SLI
I don't care too much about PCIe 2.0
No future-proof of the MOBO (No one even knows if the next gen CPUs will use 775 sockets anyways)

I have added a few questions below in the parts descriptions, but my main questions are:
1) Will this MOBO/CPU/GPU/RAM combo work decently for slight Over Clocking? (e8400 to 3.6 GHz, whatever I can get out of the GPU and RAM that is very stable for long periods.)
2) What is the best sequence for over clocking the components? (I'm guessing - CPU, then RAM, lastly the GPU)
3) Will the pc6400 RAM run at native speeds once I OC the e8400 to 3.6 GHz?
4) What is the best way to OC the e8400 CPU to run most effectively with the RAM and GPU?
5) Do I really need RAID 0? Most games should not be running from the HD I think.
6) What is the difference between the 'Artic Silver 5' and the regular 'Artic Silver'? Which should I be using?
7) Do I need the Artic Silver thermal paste REMOVER if I'm just building from scratch using new parts?
8) Lapping - Is this really needed for my level of OC? If so, I take it that I should do this after I've made sure that everything posts correctly...yes?


===============================
Buy.com parts:

Antec Nine Hundred Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - $89.99
[Best reviewed case for OC and max cooling - $30 cheaper than at newegg]

Corsair TX 650W ATX12V Power Supply - $97.99 ($30 rebate = $67.99 total)
[Solid power - No SLI needed - Single Rail for good peak load - $12 cheaper than newegg]

Crucial Ballistix 4GB (2 x 1GB) PC2-6400 800MHz 240-pin DDR2 Memory
qty: 2 - unit price: $58.59 ($30 rebate = $28.59 total per pair = $57.18 total for 4GB)
[This is the 4-4-4-12 CAS timings. I don't need to upgrade to 8MB, so can fill all 4 slots with this 4GB. Cheaper than what I could find at other places.]
-----------------------------------------------
SubTotal: $305.16 (free shipping - also $10 coupon used)
***This stuff is already ordered, so no changes will be made here unless I made a major mistake.***
==============================
NewEgg parts:

GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX All Solid Capacitor Intel Motherboard - Retail - $89.99
[No SLI needed - PCIe 2.0 not really used right now - great OC - New to OC and don't want to push too far, so the 3.6 GHz limit on the e8400 is fine with me. I just needed 'rock solid', and this should be it.]

EVGA 512-P3-N845-AR GeForce 8800GTS (G92) KO 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail - $254.99 ($30 rebate = $224.99 total)
[No SLI - runs cooler and faster than 8800GT - New to OC and don't want to push too far, so this core clock of 678Mhz is a great start. I know that the 8800GT is 'more bang for the buck', but the extra $65 is more than worth it to me to not worry about having to OC too much.]

Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model - $199.99
[Strictly gaming and not multi-tasking so no Q6600 - I went with the e8400 over the e3110 since I will only be OC to 3.6Ghz and don't need to spend the extra $20.]

Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3500320AS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM - $99.99
[I don't think I'll need RAID 0, so only 1 of these. 32MB cache on this newer model!]

Acer P223Wwd Glossy White 22" 5ms Widescreen LCD Monitor - Retail - $249.99
[This is the new model and has 1000:1 contrast (as opposed to the 700:1 used for the most popular model, and for only $20 more too.) This is also white in color which is a nice change from the usual black, although I chose this because of the better contrast ratio.]

SAMSUNG 20X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model SH-S203N - OEM - $33.99
[basic stuff here]

Microsoft Windows Vista 64-Bit Home Premium for System Builders Single Pack DVD - OEM - $99.99
[DirectX 10 is the only reason I am using this. I can't believe you can only install this one time. I have transferred my WinXP to 4 different machines - only 1 at a time of course.]

Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound - OEM - $5.99 - REMOVED - Using MX-2 instead
[What is the difference between this and the regular "Artic Silver" ? Which should I be using?]

Arctic Silver ACN-60ML (2-PC-SET) Thermal material Remover & Surface Purifier - OEM - $5.99 - REMOVED
[Do I really need this if I'm building from scratch with new parts?]

XIGMATEK HDT-S1283 120mm Rifle CPU Cooler - Retail - $36.99
[Protection for even a slight OC from 3.0 GHz to 3.6 GHz. Has anyone tried to install this on my MOBO in a Antec 900? I bet someone has who can share...]

Subtotal: $1,077.90
***These items have not yet been ordered. I wanted to solicit everyone's feedback first.***
===============================

Thank you again for your time and help in responding. It is greatly appreciated!

Best regards,

Josza

 

[chibanginpr]

I Run the Same setup pretty much except for the case. I have my E8400 OC'ed to 3.6ghz. The GA-P35-DS3L is a great board If you dont plan on utilizing SLI in the future.

The 8800GTS 512 is a great card if you have the money to spend on it. Otherwise just get the 8800GT.

The PC6400 crucial ballistix I have yet to have any problems with just make sure you give the ram +0.4v to attain the 4-4-4-12 timings .

You dont need raid 0. The 7200.11 500Gb will be plenty quick and spacious.

I havent lapped anything. However i do plan on doing so soon.

 

[dagger]

I Run the Same setup pretty much except for the case. I have my E8400 OC'ed to 3.6ghz. The GA-P35-DS3L is a great board If you dont plan on utilizing SLI in the future.

The 8800GTS 512 is a great card if you have the money to spend on it. Otherwise just get the 8800GT.

The PC6400 crucial ballistix I have yet to have any problems with just make sure you give the ram +0.4v to attain the 4-4-4-12 timings .

You dont need raid 0. The 7200.11 500Gb will be plenty quick and spacious.

I havent lapped anything. However i do plan on doing so soon.

Ideally, you should get x38/48 for e8400, which easily go above 4ghz. P35 is bottlenecking it. For q6600, which don't oc much beyond 3.6ghz anyway, it's fine. There is no sense in running a e8400 at the same clock as a quad, since a quad will outperform it due to background programs being moved to spare cores, freeing up 2 core for dedicated processing. Higher clock is where the e8400 shines.

Of course, some people are fine with e8400 at stock, but get a non-bottlenecking motherboard, so that you have the option to run it at full speed when and if you want to. If you run stock, it should be because you want to, not because you have to.

 

[chibanginpr]

Hmm How would the P35 Bottleneck the cpu? I'm asking this for myself as well

 

[dagger]

Hmm How would the P35 Bottleneck the cpu? I'm asking this for myself as well

P35 runs at 1333mhz fsb at stock, and reliably overclock to 1600mhz. X38/48 runs at 1600mhz stock, and reliably overclock to 2000mhz. 1600mhz fsb = 3.6ghz for 9x multiplier cpu (e8400, q6600). Q6600 cannot oc much beyond 3.8ghz, e8400 easily oc above 4.0ghz.

 

[roadrunner197069]

P35 wont bottle neck at 3.6. You need 400FSB with the 9x multi to hit 3.6. This would run 800 ram at a 1:1 ratio as well. Most all P35s will do 450fsb.

Save yourself $50.00 and get the e7200 and shoot for 3.8+. I got it. Check this:

 

[dagger]

P35 wont bottle neck at 3.6. You need 400FSB with the 9x multi to hit 3.6. This would run 800 ram at a 1:1 ratio as well. Most all P35s will do 450fsb.

Save yourself $50.00 and get the e7200 and shoot for 3.8+. I got it. Check this:
[url=http://www4.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/ea9c6fc039e1b3eb69eda9da740cb3316g.jpg]http://www4.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/ea9c6fc039e1b3eb69eda9da740cb3316g.jpg[/URL]

You need skill and luck to run p35 beyond 1600mhz fsb. There are 1337 people who can get it past 2000mhz, needless to say, you can't duplicate it.

If you do go p35 + e8400 route and it doesn't work out, it's to be expected. Not all of us can be lucky. Always assume you have average luck.

 

[roadrunner197069]

I must have better luck then Dagger has brains. Dagger I bet I can get to 2000, why dont you put your money where your mouth is? All i need is ram that can do 500, my current generic ram wont oc past 440. MY chip and my mobo will do 2000 for sure.

Most everyone having issues with P35s and hitting over 1600 is because of DDR 800 ram. Most x38/48 setups are running 1066 or higher. 90% of the time its a ram limitation not a motherboard limitation. Most good P35s have more voltage adjustments as well which helps even more with the right ram. All I can adjust is CPU vcore and ram voltage, so any board with better settings is likely to work better.


Where the hell do you get this magical 1337 number? Fairytale land?

 

[Shadow703793]

^Agreed on RAM issue. And most P35 boards have problems with RAM higher than DDR2 800, this includes P35-DS3x and P35-P5K-x.

@OP:
For OCing on the DS3L see:
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/forum2.php?config=tomshardwareus.inc&cat=29&post=245679&page=1&p=1&sondage=0&owntopic=3&trash=0&trash_post=0&print=0&numreponse=0&quote_only=0&new=0&nojs=0

 

[roadrunner197069]

I use Asus exclusively, and if you dont read the manual 1066 Ram wont work on most of their P35s. However if you can read and follow directions and get Ram from the QVL, its not a problem at all.

Other boards are probably similar, but I have no experience with them.

@ Shadow I'm waiting on new ram and cooling to finish my run in your OC thread. I'm shootin for 4.5 prime stable. Prolly got to water cool though.

 

[dagger]

I must have better luck then Dagger has brains. Dagger I bet I can get to 2000, why dont you put your money where your mouth is? All i need is ram that can do 500, my current generic ram wont oc past 440. MY chip and my mobo will do 2000 for sure.

Most everyone having issues with P35s and hitting over 1600 is because of DDR 800 ram. Most x38/48 setups are running 1066 or higher. 90% of the time its a ram limitation not a motherboard limitation. Most good P35s have more voltage adjustments as well which helps even more with the right ram. All I can adjust is CPU vcore and ram voltage, so any board with better settings is likely to work better.


Where the hell do you get this magical 1337 number? Fairytale land?

Lol, MY mobo can do this, MY mobo can do that. You always push whatever you've brought. To feel better about your purchase? Let's see 2000mhz fsb on p35.

 

[Avenger_K]

Just wanted to mention that Age of Conan is going to be multithreaded, and (yes I know everyone says this) future games should take advantage of the extra cores, so it might be more beneficial to go with a quad core over the e8400. You'd mentioned that you didn't want to upgrade anything in the next few years, so I figured I'd bring it up.

 

[dagger]

Just wanted to mention that Age of Conan is going to be multithreaded, and (yes I know everyone says this) future games should take advantage of the extra cores, so it might be more beneficial to go with a quad core over the e8400. You'd mentioned that you didn't want to upgrade anything in the next few years, so I figured I'd bring it up.

A q6600 on the same 9x multiplier won't be bottlenecked by p35, but that's only because it doesn't oc much beyond 3.6ghz anyway, so it's no loss. E8400 easily go over 4.0ghz, so being locked at around 3.6 is a big loss.

 

[roadrunner197069]

I will do it just for you Dagger. Then you can shut up forever, until you know something or have real experience.

Go back to your notes and see how many of the 1337 guys over 2000 are on 800 ram. I should have some 1066 next week just to make you happy.

 

[Avenger_K]

Just wanted to mention that Age of Conan is going to be multithreaded, and (yes I know everyone says this) future games should take advantage of the extra cores, so it might be more beneficial to go with a quad core over the e8400. You'd mentioned that you didn't want to upgrade anything in the next few years, so I figured I'd bring it up.

A q6600 on the same 9x multiplier won't be bottlenecked by p35, but that's only because it doesn't oc much beyond 3.6ghz anyway, so it's no loss. E8400 easily go over 4.0ghz, so being locked at around 3.6 is a big loss.

Hmm....could you please explain further? I fail to comprehend your post. Sorry, I'm a bit worn out right now, but I don't see how an E8400 at 4GHz will beat a Q6600 at 3.6GHz in a multithreaded game like Age of Conan (which the OP specifically said he'd be playing).

Maybe you quoted the wrong post? I'll edit this once these questions get cleared up.......

 

[dagger]

Hmm....could you please explain further? I fail to comprehend your post. Sorry, I'm a bit worn out right now, but I don't see how an E8400 at 4GHz will beat a Q6600 at 3.6GHz in a multithreaded game like Age of Conan (which the OP specifically said he'd be playing).

Maybe you quoted the wrong post? I'll edit this once these questions get cleared up.......

I was agreeing with you. The point was, if OP sticks with p35 chipset, might as well go with q6600. Since the bottlenecked e8400 won't outperform q6600 clock per clock, multithreaded or no.

 

[blacksci]

Hes just stuck on, i need to justify my dual core. Most duel core folks are, and ive yet to see a game out there that will show a noticable diffrence at 4.0 ghz vs 3.2ghz. And by see i mean visually, not just wow it loads a little faster.

 

[Avenger_K]

I was agreeing with you. The point was, if OP sticks with p35 chipset, might as well go with q6600. Since the bottlenecked e8400 won't outperform q6600 clock per clock, multithreaded or no.

Ahh OK, sorry for the lack of understanding on my part. Like I said, a bit worn out right now (from chem tests, soccer and the SATs :-O). Glad we agree.

 

[KyleSTL]

Ditto on the quad core suggestion. In three years I'd guess you'd be hard-pressed to find a game that ISN'T multithreaded (like today and the dual core optimization in virtually EVERY game).

 

[WR2]

Lol, MY mobo can do this, MY mobo can do that. You always push whatever you've brought. To feel better about your purchase? Let's see 2000mhz fsb on p35.

2100Mhz on a P35-DS3R
http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=351673

 

[roadrunner197069]

^ nice. Thanks!

 

[WR2]

get the e7200 and shoot for 3.8+. I got it.

I just noticed the 65% overclock. Nice job [:wr2]

 

[Shadow703793]

I use Asus exclusively, and if you dont read the manual 1066 Ram wont work on most of their P35s. However if you can read and follow directions and get Ram from the QVL, its not a problem at all.

Other boards are probably similar, but I have no experience with them.

@ Shadow I'm waiting on new ram and cooling to finish my run in your OC thread. I'm shootin for 4.5 prime stable. Prolly got to water cool though.

Good Luck

 

[dagger]

2100Mhz on a P35-DS3R
http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=351673

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/3393/cpuz1kx6.jpg

And who submitted that? It was from april. There are people who pushed it to 2400, from just googling, not to mention people who breached 3000 on x38.

Go ahead and have OP try it out. The good thing about giving people advices online is you don't have to take any responsibility.

Btw, why is no one telling OP trying 2000 on p35 is bogus? And where are the mods? On most other forums, people who tell noobs seeking building advice such things tend to get banned...

 

[Josza]

-Edited 05/06/08 - 6:40 a.m. PDT- New set of questions

Thank you all for the comments and suggestions. It is greatly appreciated!

I previously was under the impression that dual core at a higher clock was going to be better for gaming than a quad core at a lower clock, which is why I was basing the build around a E8400. I will now be changing the build to use the Q6600 instead based on all of your excellent feedback.

Main concepts remain:
No SLI/Crossfire
No major upgrades for 3 years (I don't mind changing a GPU or maybe single component, but don't want to have to change out the entire Mobo/CPU/RAM)
I'm new to Overclocking, so will not be pushing too far, and want to use conservative estimates on capabilities.
The main use for this build will be gaming (Age of Conan, Warhammer, etc.) - P.S. This will be for PVP play, so fast response is important.
I'll be using a 22" monitor, most likely at 1600x1050 res. (I think that is the native res..)

New questions:
1) If you were building today (with Q6600), would you choose the GA-P35-DS3L or possibly an x38 board such as GA-EX38-DS4 with a higher FSB and PCIe 2.0 compatibility?

2) If anyone is using the GA-EX38-DS4, will the XIGMATEK HDT-S1283 fit on it? If not, what heat sink are you using? (I've heard that the RAM slots are a little close to the CPU slot)

3) What Mobo would you use if building today? (Not going above 225$ price range is preferable.)

4) More comments on the importance, or lack thereof, of RAID 0 for a gaming rig.

Thank you all for your time and help in responding!


[Original post above has been edited.] -
I will no longer be using the E8400, but will now use the Q6600
I will no longer be using the Artic Silver 5, but will now use MX-2 thermal grease.