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Possible Build / Comments?

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May 6, 2008 1:16:06 AM

Hey everyone, I'm hoping to get some feedback on this possible build. I was trying to stay around $1200 but still include reliable components that will hold up for a decent amount of time.

Here is what I have so far...(oh and I'll be using the Apevia X-Alien case from the previous system)

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz LGA 775
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16819115017
$219.99

GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16813128059
$89.99

XIGMATEK HDT-S1283 120mm Rifle CPU Cooler
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16835233003
$36.99

OCZ 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16820227269
$96.99 - $5 & $30 Rebates
$61.99

Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3500320AS 500GB
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16822148288
$109.99 - $10 Rebate
$99.99

CORSAIR CMPSU-520HX ATX12V v2.2 and EPS12V 2.91 520W Power Supply
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16817139001
$139.99 - $10 & $20 Rebates
$109.99

ECS N8800GTS-512MX GeForce 8800GTS (G92) 512MB 256-bit GDDR3
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16814134037
$299.99 - $80 & $50 Rebates
$169.99

SAMSUNG 20X DVD±R DVD Burner Black SATA
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16827151153
$29.99 - $3 Rebate
$26.99

SAMSUNG 2253BW Black 22" 2ms(GTG) DVI Widescreen LCD Monitor
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16824001268
$319.99 - $20 Rebate
$299.99

Total - $1095.91 w/Rebates

More about : build comments

May 6, 2008 2:19:38 AM

Looks good. :D . Nice choices on PSU, CPU, HDDs, Motherboard, HSF.

If possible get a better quality card from XFX,EVGA, BFG. ECS is not the best of quality. Also consider a 9600 or a 8800GT. Also consider not getting a Raptor, instead consider a big 7200.11 HDD(s), the 7200.11s are almost as fast as Raptors in most benchmarks but has bigger storage for the same price.

If OCing checkout:
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/forum2.php?config=tom...
May 6, 2008 2:52:36 AM

Thanks for the reply Shadow, and nice OC guide. The main reason I was going to go with 2 HDs was for the possibility of using fraps.

You're probably right about the gfx card. I've never heard of ECS but they had some crazy rebates going on that card. Is the difference between the 8800 GTS and the GT really that big?
Related resources
May 6, 2008 3:01:37 AM

deftech said:
Thanks for the reply Shadow, and nice OC guide. The main reason I was going to go with 2 HDs was for the possibility of using fraps.

You're probably right about the gfx card. I've never heard of ECS but they had some crazy rebates going on that card. Is the difference between the 8800 GTS and the GT really that big?

The difference isn't that big at stock. The gts overclocks more though, and runs cooler, due to dual slot cooler.

Stock benchmark:
http://en.expreview.com/2008/04/02/g80-vs-g92-hi-end-ge...
May 6, 2008 3:25:22 AM

I would say ditch the Raptor. If you're concerned about speed, save the $100 and get another 320GB for RAID 0.

As for the ECS brand 8800GTS, I think it's a good move. Just look into the warranty and see if it offers lifetime. They're all the same anyways, the KO editions or the XXX alpha dog editions, etc. Only difference being stock clocks and you'll probably be able to overclock that ECS 8800GTS just as well as any other card.

If you ditch the Raptor all together and just go with one hard drive, you could bump up the GTS to a 9800GTX. Seeing as you're gaming on 22" monitor, I would go with the GTX. Even if you don't the GTS is a very capable card.

Just my two cents
May 6, 2008 4:32:20 AM

Thanks for the replies. I swapped out the 2 Western Digital drives for the 7200.11. I'll have to do some more research on the gfx cards since I don't see any warranty info for the ECS 8800GTS.

Two more quick questions though. This will be my first build so I'm not sure how hard I will push the OC. Would it be better to stick with the E8400 or switch to the Q6600? I may be using this for AoC if they fix the stability issues. And for the OS, home premium 64bit or Ultimate 64bit?
May 6, 2008 11:12:50 AM

E8400 is easier to OC. If gaming E8400 will also be better. If video editing go with Q6600.
May 6, 2008 12:24:16 PM

ECS offer 3 year warranty, not lifetime. You do not need lifetime, as the card will be long obsolete after 3 years. Lifetime warranty is a gemmick from manufacturers, knowing they won't need to honor it past a few years anyway, since no one will be using it.

Shadow703793 said:
E8400 is easier to OC. If gaming E8400 will also be better. If video editing go with Q6600.



E8400 easily overclock to beyond 4.0ghz. The problem is, your p35 chipset motherboard will bottleneck it to not much more than 3.6ghz. And since q6600 overclocks to 3.6ghz just fine, it's pointless to get e8400 unless motherboard fsb bottleneck is removed.
May 6, 2008 7:35:47 PM

So I'm sensing that the Q6600 would be a better option for me. Would the OC be pretty straight forward and reliable with the Xigmatek?

Also does anyone have any experience with the Samsung monitor? The specs claim...
Contrast ratios of DC 8000:1(1000:1) DC being?
And response of 5 ms, 2 ms (GTG) GTG?

I've heard good things about this LG 22" as well. It is 3000:1 and 2ms
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?item=N82E16824005097
May 6, 2008 8:10:16 PM

@dagger: What you said is somewhat not true. We had the same conversation before and people provided proof of beyond 3.6Ghz OC on P35.

See:
dagger said:
P35 runs at 1333mhz fsb at stock, and reliably overclock to 1600mhz. X38/48 runs at 1600mhz stock, and reliably overclock to 2000mhz. 1600mhz fsb = 3.6ghz for 9x multiplier cpu (e8400, q6600). Q6600 cannot oc much beyond 3.8ghz, e8400 easily oc above 4.0ghz.


roadrunner197069 said:
P35 wont bottle neck at 3.6. You need 400FSB with the 9x multi to hit 3.6. This would run 800 ram at a 1:1 ratio as well. Most all P35s will do 450fsb.

Save yourself $50.00 and get the e7200 and shoot for 3.8+. I got it. Check this:
]http://www4.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/ea9c6fc039e1b3eb69eda9da740cb3316g.jpg


dagger said:
You need skill and luck to run p35 beyond 1600mhz fsb. There are 1337 people who can get it past 2000mhz, needless to say, you can't duplicate it.

If you do go p35 + e8400 route and it doesn't work out, it's to be expected. Not all of us can be lucky. Always assume you have average luck.


roadrunner197069 said:
I must have better luck then Dagger has brains. :)  Dagger I bet I can get to 2000, why dont you put your money where your mouth is? All i need is ram that can do 500, my current generic ram wont oc past 440. MY chip and my mobo will do 2000 for sure.

Most everyone having issues with P35s and hitting over 1600 is because of DDR 800 ram. Most x38/48 setups are running 1066 or higher. 90% of the time its a ram limitation not a motherboard limitation. Most good P35s have more voltage adjustments as well which helps even more with the right ram. All I can adjust is CPU vcore and ram voltage, so any board with better settings is likely to work better.


Where the hell do you get this magical 1337 number? Fairytale land?



http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/forum2.php?config=tom...


May 6, 2008 8:17:17 PM

That is a GREAT build in my opinion. I take it you've modified it since people have been posting. Don't fall for the Quad core crap unless you know for sure that the apps you are running will utilize it. Other wise a higher clocked dual core will suck less power and performe better in 90% of all games.

The ONLY think I would change is the memory. the e8400 run on a 333MHZ bus and with DDR2 800 you will hit the 1:1 ration at 400MHZ. That CPU can definitely clock higher than that. So if you plan to OC I'd pick up some DDR2 1000 or 1066 memory. Other than that you can't get much better for the money with that build. The 8800GTS is the best choice you can really take with a 22" monitor. I have one and it is rock solid and runs basically all games at max res and max settings... in DX9 that is
May 6, 2008 8:17:32 PM

dagger said:
ECS offer 3 year warranty, not lifetime. You do not need lifetime, as the card will be long obsolete after 3 years. Lifetime warranty is a gemmick from manufacturers, knowing they won't need to honor it past a few years anyway, since no one will be using it.


True, but the quality still matters. But I dont know about you but my cards tend to go down to replace the older cards, for example my 8800GT will replace a 7600 on one of my rigs when I upgrade the 8800 to something else .i.e. 4800.
May 6, 2008 8:19:07 PM

jay2tall said:
That is a GREAT build in my opinion. I take it you've modified it since people have been posting. Don't fall for the Quad core crap unless you know for sure that the apps you are running will utilize it. Other wise a higher clocked dual core will suck less power and performe better in 90% of all games.

The ONLY think I would change is the memory. the e8400 run on a 333MHZ bus and with DDR2 800 you will hit the 1:1 ration at 400MHZ. That CPU can definitely clock higher than that. So if you plan to OC I'd pick up some DDR2 1000 or 1066 memory. Other than that you can't get much better for the money with that build. The 8800GTS is the best choice you can really take with a 22" monitor. I have one and it is rock solid and runs basically all games at max res and max settings... in DX9 that is

Like I said on my guide many people have problems with RAM natively higher than DDR2 800. Get some good quality DDR2 800 and OC it. (ie. Crucial Ballastix)
May 6, 2008 8:21:42 PM

Shadow703793 said:
Like I said on my guide many people have problems with RAM natively higher than DDR2 800. Get some good quality DDR2 800 and OC it. (ie. Crucial Ballastix)

REALLY! so PC8000 and PC8500 memory has issues but if you take good pc6400 memory and PC it to 500MHZ it doesnt? that is interesting.
May 6, 2008 8:35:45 PM

Quote:
That is a GREAT build in my opinion. I take it you've modified it since people have been posting. Don't fall for the Quad core crap unless you know for sure that the apps you are running will utilize it. Other wise a higher clocked dual core will suck less power and performe better in 90% of all games.


Thanks. The processor is just about the only thing I'm still unsure about. I know everyone has different opinions on it based on the OC level. This is my first build so I'm not sure how far I will push the OC. It sounds like the Q6600 with the P35 @ 1600 is a solid 3.6ghz. To take the E8400 past this then I would either have to really push the P35 or step up to the x38/x48? The difference in price between the procs is about $20, while the difference between mobos is over $100.

The only multithreaded game that I might play at this point is AoC. Who knows in the near future.

Haha, this is confusing :pt1cable: 
May 6, 2008 8:41:49 PM

jay2tall said:
REALLY! so PC8000 and PC8500 memory has issues but if you take good pc6400 memory and PC it to 500MHZ it doesnt? that is interesting.

Yup. Weird isn't it? I guess it has some thing to do with RAM quality and the SPD tables, etc.
May 6, 2008 11:14:48 PM

I don't want to steal your light but I have a question... Would upgrading to the x38 board make it more future proof? How high can you oc with the GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L with the e8400 compared to the x38?
May 6, 2008 11:51:08 PM

Feel free to try 2000mhz fsb on p35. It's not like I'm the one paying. But make sure to come back and post results. :p 

Note that all those people's system specs indicate they're running on p35. People tend to boast with whatever they have, it makes them feel better. I'm the only one who ran both p35 and x38. And note that I'm not boasting whatever I use with fantastic scores like they are. Boasting for either p35 and x38 does well to for stroking my own ego, yet I'm doing neither. What's in it for me? Could it be that I just want to help, instead of showing off? Ignore the hooting mob, listen to the voice of reason. Conservative estimate is the solid advice to bank on.

Steppings of fsb are 1066-1333-1600-2000. A good estimate for oc to bank on would be one step above. P35, according to manufacturer specs, run at 1333mhz fsb, x38/48 at 1600mhz. Look at the board you're planning on, it says "1333/1066."
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?item=N82E168...

Don't go by what I say. How well do you think any hardware can run at nearly twice of what they're designed to do?

Nothing is magical. Take online advices with a grain of salt. People
have egos. Start with what the manufacturer tell you as baseline, then use your brains to make an intelligent estimate.

If you do go with p35 with e8400, come back and help someone else so that they don't make the same mistake. :) 
May 7, 2008 12:27:09 AM

Thanks for the info dagger. So I take it you would recommend going with the x38 for either the q6600 or e8400? I am leaning towards the q6600 because people say its easily clockable and if more multi threaded games come out, then it will surpass the e8400. I don't mind paying the extra $100 for the x38 if it will be more stable, better for clocking, etc.
May 7, 2008 12:34:24 AM

What's the point with going X48 when Nehalm is just around the corner? :p 

Dagger, the P35 lets you go up to 420+ FSB with out much problems. Btw, the P35 CAN support FSB1600 through OCing (and/or possibly a BIOS update) for example look at the P35-DS4, it supports QX9770 via overclocking.
http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Support/Motherboard/CPUSuppo...
So the P35 chipset is indeed capable of 1600FSB.
May 7, 2008 12:41:58 AM

buildarig said:
Thanks for the info dagger. So I take it you would recommend going with the x38 for either the q6600 or e8400? I am leaning towards the q6600 because people say its easily clockable and if more multi threaded games come out, then it will surpass the e8400. I don't mind paying the extra $100 for the x38 if it will be more stable, better for clocking, etc.

No, q6600 can't overclock much more than 3.6ghz anyway. For q6600, x38 is more than you need to pay for. P35 will do fine. X38 use PCIE2.0 and support crossfire, of course, but for most people, it's hardly worth the extra $100. It's true though that x38 will be easier, since it runs at 1600mhz natively, which means when that q6600 or e8400 runs at 3.6ghz, the motherboard isn't being overclocked at all and you won't need to boost chipset voltage or watch temperature. But I'd think the extra hassle is well worth the $100 saved. Up to you.

It's only for e8400 that you need the more expensive motherboard.

And yes, the conventional wisdom is 2- years for dual and 2+ years for quad. That should be when majority of applications go quad thread, based on past transition between single and dual thread applications, and the time frame when dual core first appears vs quad.
May 7, 2008 12:46:32 AM

Shadow703793 said:
What's the point with going X48 when Nehalm is just around the corner? :p 

Dagger, the P35 lets you go up to 420+ FSB with out much problems. Btw, the P35 CAN support FSB1600 through OCing (and/or possibly a BIOS update) for example look at the P35-DS4, it supports QX9770 via overclocking.
http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Support/Motherboard/CPUSuppo...
So the P35 chipset is indeed capable of 1600FSB.

Of course p35 is capable of 1600fsb, in fact, it's almost guaranteed to hit 1600mhz fsb, which translates to 3.6ghz on q6600 and e8400. It's when you go above 1600 that it becomes hit or miss, and you'd need skills and an increasing degree of luck, as it goes higher. Some of those fanboys claim it'll do 2000mhz, which it won't. :p 
May 7, 2008 1:50:44 AM

Shadow703793 said:
So are you saying that this:
http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=351673
is false?

That is from April. It was posted yeasterday on this forum by someone claiming to did it themselves. If so, why isn't it dated yeasterday? I can search for a 3000mhz fsb on google, just as someone else searched for that link. It'll just use nitrogen cooling. There are lots of people out there doing a lot of different things.

If you really think it's attainable by OP... or you, why don't you try that 2100mhz fsb on p35 and tell us. :na: 
May 7, 2008 4:31:40 AM

dagger said:
That is from April. It was posted yeasterday on this forum by someone claiming to did it themselves. If so, why isn't it dated yeasterday? I can search for a 3000mhz fsb on google, just as someone else searched for that link. It'll just use nitrogen cooling. There are lots of people out there doing a lot of different things.


Who were these people that claimed they did it themselves? How many were there? Are you sure those persons claimed ownership of that benchmark?
Ummmmmm - Not dated yesterday? maybe because the benchmark wasnt run yesterday?
Google? :non:  no - from another forum where the owner of that benchmark posted it.
Not Nitrogen, not phase change just ordinary H2O watercooling - using D-Tek FuZion water block, Swiftech MCP655 pump and Swiftech MCR220-QP radiator, active chipset cooling and nice OC'ing RAM. It was not a suicide run - SuperPi completion screenshot also provided.
May 7, 2008 5:22:13 AM

Thanks again for all the great replies. Sorry this turned into an OCing war. I'm feeling pretty confident about this setup now so I might pull the trigger on it this week. I may throw in another 7200.11 to separate the OS/games from the storage/fraps drive, but I'm undecided.
May 7, 2008 12:02:15 PM

deftech said:
Thanks again for all the great replies. Sorry this turned into an OCing war. I'm feeling pretty confident about this setup now so I might pull the trigger on it this week. I may throw in another 7200.11 to separate the OS/games from the storage/fraps drive, but I'm undecided.

Sorry some people decided to hijack your topic to boost their own ego, knowing very well you won't even get close to that kind of extreme overclocking. They have no intention to help you to begin with. Just ignore them. :p 

Casual reading:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/understanding-hard-...
It's a bit outdated, but the fundamentals are still valid.
May 7, 2008 1:50:05 PM

You should feel very confident. You did a great job picking out a well balanced system. [:wr2] If you turn your FRAPS recordings into video's you absolutely made the right choice.

It's not really a secret why CPU OC'ing benchmarks are usually run at 800x600 or 1024x768 resolution, low quality and no AA/AF.
When you start real gaming performance tends to even out and become GPU bound. More GPU bound game examples
(There are some CPU bound games and maybe the best known of them is MS FSX which is my primary game)

You'll be able to benchmark your own system. Run your games and tasks at stock, 2.7Ghz (300FSB) and 3.0Ghz (333FSB) on your way to the highest OC you feel comfortable with. The results might suprise you. And show you where you can best tweak overall performance (as in GPU OC'ing).

Don't let the forum flack make you second guess yourself. It's not a war. It's not even a battle.
Occasionally people tend to focus on one (begins with O) aspect of a project and forget to look at the whole shebang. [:wr2:5]

[:wr2:2] Most important - have as much fun as you can. And be sure to tell us how things turn out.
!