What's this I hear about a new Phenom?

[quantum112]

So yeah I'm building a new PC and considering the current situation AMD has in the processor market things have gone downhill with the release of the Phenom and die-hard AMD fans (such as me) are forced to buy Intel's C2Q's instead of the awesome processors we had 2-3 years ago. I find it hard having to transition to Intel just because of this, everywhere on the Internet the Phenom with its new stepping is listed as a fair alternative now that it has the TLB bugs fixed, especially
considering its LOWER PRICE, compared to the Q6600 - and that's got to be really the only positive point in each of these reviews, but in my country, the Phenom actually costs MORE than a Q6600, so even that one single positive point is negated here and the value-for-money is completely lost, you'd have to be dumb to pay for a 9850BE if you can get a Q6600 for 20$ less. As much as I'd love to once more make a AMD/ATi build and have it in the faces of all those Intel/nVidia boys when I own their framerates, it just doesn't seem a logical move to make considering how Intel gives you a much better P/P ratio.
And that DFI 790FX motherboard looks so awesome The only thing that got my hopes up a bit was the rumors of a new Phenom coming out next month (!!!) which will supposedly be even better, if that's true I'm ditching the Q6600 setup I was about to buy and going red again. But the way I see this is the only rumour regarding that I've found so far. Can someone shed any light on this? Is AMD actually planning to make an AM2+ quad-core this summer that will be a GOOD competition to Intel's Q6600? Thanks

 

[spuddyt]

I sincerely doubt that the new phenom's will a) be out on time, and b) be anywhere near as good price/performance as a q6600
just thought to mention: when new stuff comes out, just read performance reviews by independant people, and go with the best p/p - its that simple

 

[Game_boy]

There will be an X4 9950 (official because 140W motherboards have been announced and no current Phenom has a TDP of 140W) which will have a clock of between 2.6 and 2.66GHz (I've heard both rumoured). Looking at the 9850's performance, the 9950 should match a Q6600.

 

[quantum112]

When is it supposed to come out?

 

[evilshuriken]

Fanboyism is truly scary, when even a 2.66Ghz 140W CPU in this day and age won't scare them off.

 

[Ryun]

The only logical reason to go with a Phenom system, especially if the price is higher where you live, would be if you don't buy/build new computers often. Intel is going to require a whole new socket, chipset, and RAM -- I've read it'll only use DDR3 -- for their new Nehalem cores (which is basically a new computer). Point is if you build a LGA775 system, chances are your don't have much room to upgrade. I haven't seen any reports that they're going to keep working on their LGA 775 socket processors, but my point could be moot though if they do.

At any rate, if you feel wary about going with AMD you could definitely go with AMD/ATi when the 4xxx series comes out. Word is the 4850 is 10-15% better than an 8800GT and in the same price range.

 

[FHDelux]

If you are not going to be overclocking the rig at all. Im sure the phenom will be just fine, the 9850 is going to be slower than a Q6600 at pretty much everything, but it wont be noticable on anything but benchmarks really. Honestly though, the Q6600 p/p is outstanding, ive built 5 or 6 G0 set ups now and ever single one overclocks to 3.6Ghz easily. I do not have any first hand expirience with phenoms, but, the Q6600 is, for overclockers right now, the best price to performance available today. I put together a Q9450 setup and even that couldn't overclock as high, or even touch the benchies of the Q6600 rig i have.

I understand brand loyalty, but, if you want AMD, you should probably wait for a little bit. Theres lots of new stuff coming out right now and over the next few months, they are bound to come up with something decent. If you must buy something now and want the best performance for your money, the Q6600 cannot be beat by anything else from intel, or anything from AMD.

 

[jonisginger]

Fanboyism is truly scary, when even a 2.66Ghz 140W CPU in this day and age won't scare them off.

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahaaaa.

Very good.

 

[Shadow703793]

I wonder what Thunderman would say..... :lol:

 

[invisik]

isnt the new phenom just a die-shrink? if it is dont expect it much better then the ones out now. only difference now is it uses less power thous more efficient.

 

[Wisecracker]

The Deneb core 45nm Phenom X4 CPUs shipped engineering samples in March and are on schedule for 4Q 2008. The 45nm Deneb have 6 MB L3 Cache 95w TDP.

June is the last month disributors can order 125w Phenoms. 95wTDP 9750s & 9850s will hopefully roll before the end of the year.

btw - The Intel qx9650 processor has a TDP of 130w, the qx9770 is 136W and the qx9775 is 150w.

 

[thingemajib]

i heard summit about the 9950 being th last 65nm phenom before they moved to Deneb cores

 

[quantum112]

Are these new AMD's going to be using Socket AM2+ ?
I upgrade my PC once in every 2 years or so...so it might actually be
more beneficial to go Phenom, if AM2 will stick for a while (at least longer than LGA775?) I might switch processors in winter then, wouldn't be a problem...

 

[jj463rd]

Deneb is supposed to be for socket AM3.ASUS already has some motherboards that support 140 watt AMD processors for Socket AM2+

 

[iluvgillgill]

The Intel qx9650 processor has a TDP of 130w, the qx9770 is 136W and the qx9775 is 150w.

QX9650@3.2Ghz TDP 150W
QX9770@3.2Ghz TDP 136W
QX9775@3Ghz TDP 130W
Q6600@2.4Ghz TDP 95W

Phenom 9850@2.5Ghz TDP 125W

Do i still need to say anything? Wisecracker put your Anti-Intelism away!he only mention the Q6600 anyway. PLUS Even if the price of the 9850 is lower then the Q6600 he will still get more go for the money at stock form.

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/charts/desktop-cpu-charts/3d-studio-max-9,369.html?p=1217%2C1273%2C1272%2C1275%2C1308

 

[Ryun]

Are these new AMD's going to be using Socket AM2+ ?
I upgrade my PC once in every 2 years or so...so it might actually be
more beneficial to go Phenom, if AM2 will stick for a while (at least longer than LGA775?) I might switch processors in winter then, wouldn't be a problem...

From what's been said, AM3 socket processors should run on a AM2+ socket (probably with some restrictions though).

 

[dario77]

am3 is "supposed to be" back compatible with am2+, just as am2+ is "back compatible" with am2. in other words, given bios support/updates (the only thing hampering phenom support on am2 was the motherboard makers not offering updated bioses for every last am2 board they made), a 45nm am3 deneb will run in an am2+ socket, but you don't get ddr3 support. given the pr nightmare that the lack of bios updates for older am2 boards was...i don't think the motherboard makers will slack this time around (especially if deneb offers better performance. ya gotta admit, if you're asus, and phenom's debut/early sales are what they were, you're gonna be more focused on other things than getting your old 690g bioses updated!!)...

as a fellow disgruntled amd'er, i'm hesitant to offer up more "hurry up and wait" advice...but its sort of like wanting that higher-end video card today....when we're just a few weeks shy of a whole new gen of cards from both camps!
so yeah...if you absolutely have to build now, go intel. if you can wait just a little longer, see what comes out. may as well hold out for the new 790gx chipset, anyway...right?

 

[yomamafor1]

btw - The Intel qx9650 processor has a TDP of 130w, the qx9770 is 136W and the qx9775 is 150w.

Note, the TDP you listed is "rated", which is significantly higher than the real power consumption in reality.

If I remember correctly, QX9650's power consumption is in the 65W range, and will get to 150W once overclocked to 4.0Ghz.

 

[nachowarrior]

i'd check the price of the overall system. I know that amd cpu's are cheaper here in the us. And most quality motherboards that are comparable are cheaper on the amd side as well. I would check more overall system price and performance. The new amd be has great memory bandwidth as well. I've never been dissatisfied with an AMD proc, and i do love my new 3870. anyway, my decision is already made, next pc i own will be a phenom.

 

[nachowarrior]

meh, I have a feeling the 4870 will exceed my expectations and do so at a good price.... nvidia just costs too much.

 

[royalcrown]

Why, the phenom gets beat even by faster AMD dual cores with the exception of rendering/encoding. Why would you buy something that is slower ?

 

[quantum112]

A fairly tough choice I'm facing here then...this can basically go either way:

A) If I go AMD, with an ASUS motherboard with support for the new 140W processors, I could initially take a 9850BE Phenom, have somewhat weaker performance and have support for the new processors in winter, the AM2 platform should supposedly last longer while in fact it isn't going to be much different than LGA 775 because essentially the switch to DDR3 will be made in 2009, which AM2 won't support. Life expectancy: 1 yr.

B) If I go Intel, with a Q6600 I'd get very good performance and the system would do very well, but once Nehalem becomes mainstream (also supposedly in 2009) it will require a completely different socket, as well as DDR3 ram, and as of yet it is not known whether LGA 775 will be discontinued (probably) so in this case the life expectancy of this system is also 1 yr,
after which if the switch to Nehalem would be made I'd also need to exchange all components.

Considering both systems will become obsolete in 1 year, it would be logical to choose the system that performs best or in this case Intel. And also, both of these systems provide exactly the same upgradability, which on the surface goes more to AMD's favor because AM2+ will also support newer processors but essentialy be limited to then "old" DDR2 memory,
at which point you will also need to change your memory, processor, and motherboard, the same with LGA 775.

This seems to be a rather bad time to build a PC as in any case both of these systems won't be the deal for more than one year unlike before where you could build a system that lasted for 2 or 3 years, this is however dependent on just how much the new AMD/Intel processors paired with DDR3 memory will outperform today's built systems. If the difference is not that great, then the systems you build these days could well last 2 -3 years. Graphics cards seem to be the least affected components by these socket changes and you can pretty much change them at your leisure.

That's how I see it.

 

[jonisginger]

Go Intel.

 

[jonisginger]

Unless AMD is being taken over/is run by a musician.

EDIT: I meant magician

 

[Mathos]

Deneb looks to be a die shrink, with some core and cache optimizations, as well as increased L3 cache. It also looks like they'll be increasing the IMC/L3 speed again, supposedly getting more IPC on the new revisions. At the very lease I'm always up for less power draw.

Even if you do go AMD, wait for the newer 790fx/GX boards to come out that are based off the sb750 southbridge. Suppose to fix a lot of the issues that the sb600 based boards had. Also suppose to allow for more stable OCing, but I'll wait to be the judge of that. Moving the clock generator from the board to an internal generator on the SB.

AM3 is pin compatible with AM2/AM2+, only difference is support for DDR3 memory.

Thats the problem with TDP, most processors rarely ever use what they're rated at. My X2 4200+ was rated at 65w but never went over 50w at full load. Fairly certain that my 9850 rarely ever gets close to 125w.