New CPU question/problems

[pneublet]

I know very little about computers and I don't really have anybody to teach me so I'm kind of on my own.

I just got the core 2 quad 2.66ghz with a 1333 bus and 12mb cache. I'm running on a gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L mobo and a 9800 GTX. 4gb of ram on xp64.

I wanted to test the processor and the thermal paste I installed. I ran 3dmark06 and my overall score was 13605 with the processor score of 4500. It said there were no computers to compare this to, so I don't know if these numbers are any good. When I just searched the processor on 3dmarks website, it showed my processor with a score of 11000 BUT when I tried to find comparable computers, their overall score was right around mine. When it shows the processor stats it says my bus is 333, not 1333. It also says my cache in L1 is 64k and in L2 is 6mb. I'm not sure if this is software or what. No idea. During the tests though, when it runs the graphics just on the processor, it's only getting 1-2 fps. That seems really bad.

I downloaded a few temperature programs and got all different numbers. The first one, burn-in software (i forget which), said I was running 52c with no load and up to 70 with load.

The second was real temp 2.6 and it says it is running at 39c-44c on the different cores with no load and up to 68 with load. It also shows the mhz bouncing between 2.66 and 2.0 when I'm not doing anything. My XS score was 888 at 17secs. It also tested the sensors and two got 11 and two got 3 which implies there is something wrong with my sensors. What does this mean, what can I do about it?

The third is the temp software supplied by gigabyte. It says that my low is around 27c and I have not seen it get above 50c. When running real temp and is showing 2.0ghz, the gigabyte software never shows it dropping bellow 2.695ghz.


So I'm confused because I know nothing about the processor or what programs I should be running. I just want to make sure that everything is safe and running well. Any advice would be appreciated. I did searches but I didn't find anything that seemed to have the same problems so I'm sorry if this is a repost. The people here seem to be very knowledgeable so I'm sure somebody can help me.

 

[mi1ez]

Ok...

The processor speed changing is due to SpeedStep when it lowers your processor speed by changing the multiplier to save energy (although I thought it would drop lower than 2GHz).

333MHz is the bus speed, 1333GHz is the rated FSB which has something to do with quad pumping (hope someone can explain this properly?)

52 at idle seems warm to me?

 

[pneublet]

Thanks for the first two answers. That's refreshing.

52 is only on one of the programs and yes it seems really high. I don't know which program to trust.

Also what is the way to test the load?

 

[PsyKhiqZero]

I can't explain why but here is the math behind all the numbers as far as speed goes. Keep in mind this is for intel core 2 chips.

CPU Speed is the bus speed x multiplier
2660mhz = 333 x 8

The front side bus is the the bus speed times 4. ( i think it does 4 instructions per clock cycle which they call quad pumping).
1333 = 333 x 4

52 idle is about right if your using the stock cooler. The core 2 are rated to run at temps as high as 75c.

your 3dmarks scores are fine. I think that your confused on how to use their database. the fact that similiar pc are scoring the same should let you know your ok.

mi1ez is right about intel speed step. not all apps are configured to read the real speed properly. so go by w2hat the bios says by using the math above. that will be your real speed.

 

[pneublet]

What are the low and high load temperatures I should be looking for/expect?

Also, if everything is running correctly, and the thermal paste is ok, and I keep the stock cooling, what can I overclock to safely? More importantly, how do I do it? Sorry I'm so uninformed.

 

[Mogwilson]

I would not overclock with the stock cooler, the Akasa 965 cooler is a good cheap option but its worth paying the money for a good one, Zalman flower CNF9700 is one of the best and keeps my E6750 3.2ghz at 40 degrees max on orthos, There are no reliable temp apps to believe, as long as you keep thermal throttling enabled in the bios your chip wont cook, but if youu want to oc you will need an aftermarket cooler.

cheers

 

[pneublet]

In my bios it says my system temp is 39c and cpu temp is 30c. Also my cpu fan is only at 794 and in windows its at 1600.

Under MB intelligent tweaker; it has cpu host frequency at 200 and memory frequency at 800.

In realtemp it says my sensors are messed up though. So is it possible these numbers are wrong?

I also do not see where thermal throttling is in my bios. CPU thermal monitor is enabled though.

 

[Mogwilson]

Your system temp seems a bit to high, It might be worth tidying your cables to give better air flow in your case, CPU thermal monitor is what im talking about so keep it enabled, Its a tough one, Ive had real temp say the same thing to me and the only thing that worked is a clean install of your os and the latest motherboard drivers, it could be your chipset drivers have not installed properly. I would go into my bios and set it to default value, your fan speed should be higher and its worth looking in the MB tweaker and seeing if you can change the speed to performance/optimal. I dont have a gigabyte board so im not sure about this though but its worth looking at.

If you have software that came with your mobo for overclocking in windows, i would look on the mobo's website and make sure you have the latest version installed, I would only recommend relying on the bios for info though.

 

[halcyon]

For a Q9450 52C at idle is not uncommon at all. Many of the C1 stepping chips have a "funky", if you will, temperature deviation at idle, that is attributed to the stuck sensor problem (which is another issue altogether). I've read that this deviation can be off by as much as 10-15C at idle even when using the RealTemp application. I was trying to find the precise thread that discussed this in the Xtreme Systems forums...no such luck as of yet.

In my case, my Q9450 sit about about 49-51C idle using 4 different heat sinks. I do, however, see a difference in load temperatures, with the OCZ Vendetta 2 doing the best over a Xigmatek S-1283RD, a TRUE+Scythe SFFlex-F, and a Zalman 9700NT.

 

[pneublet]

Ok so my temps are fine and the sensors are known for being faulty. My score and numbers are fine in 3dmark. I should just get a new heatsink/fan and not worry about it then is what I'm taking from all of this.

What program should I use to put my processor under full load so I can make sure it's not getting too hot?

What is too hot for this processor?

 

[Mogwilson]

Get a program called orthos, run the cpu/ram blend test and the cpu grommacs core test for about nine hours. Your chip has thermal throttling enabled which means if it gets to hot it will reduce power, Its good for looking after your cpu but bad for games and your apps, You should be happy wiith a max temp of 60-65 the most during the orthos test, anything above is a sign that your cooling/heatsink need to be replaced/re-seated and some Arctic silver 5 be applied in a thin layer on the top of your cpu.
Just because some sensors are faulty dont assume that your are,you have spent to much money on your rig not to worry bout temps.

cheers

 

[pneublet]

Thank you very much for your help Mogwilson. Without you I'd be lost right now.

The latest version of Orthos I could find was 2.006 and it seems that its only meant to test dual core. After running it for 40 mins with the grommacs core test, my 4 cores read in RealTemp; 58, 54, 53, 53. Under EasyTune (Software provided by Gigabyte) it says my cpu at 42c and system at 34c.

What should my system temperature be at?

When this is done running for 9 hours, what should I be looking for?

 

[pneublet]

My temps weren't changing and I didn't throw any errors after two hours so I switched over to prime95 and running the stress test. After only a couple mins my cores read 66,61,64,64. Isn't this too hot??

 

[halcyon]

Well 95C is TjMax...the temp at which Intel thinks its too hot and the processor with trottle back. 95-66 = 29C that you still have left before throttling. I think your processor will be okay, especially given that you're not likely to be running anything as grueling as Prime95 all of the time.

 

[pneublet]

Well I'd like to overclock to 3.2ghz if possible. What is the max temp I should be seeing on real temp and what should I hope my idle sits at?

I decided to remove and reapply the thermal paste and now when running prime96 i'm at 68,64,69,69

Should I try again or just leave it? This is getting tiresome

 

[halcyon]

Well, if those are your non-overclock, stock heatsink-fan temps I would recommend you invest in a better cooler, definitely. You'd likely see you temps drop significantly. For instance, when I have my Q9450 overclocked to 3.5Ghz temps stay below 69C in a room that is 25.5C and that's with a warm 8800GTX in a nice-looking but not the coldest Lian-Li A-70.

 

[Mogwilson]

If you want to overclock you will need a better cooler, your system is stable at stock speed and dont get to obsessed with temps(like i do), you wont blow your chip. Temp readings are to varied to be trusted, if you have ran orthos for a few hours without errors it means that its not getting to hot. Its hugely dependent on your room temp as well, To ease your worries about temps just get a good cooler, try to avoid the push pin types if you can(although i recommended it, it can be tricky) and get yourself a Tuniq tower or a zalman flower, This will let you forget about temps and let you enjoy your high end rig.

cheers

 

[Mogwilson]

One other thing, dont bother using your gigabyte software to monitor temps, The only ones that can generally be trusted are Real temps and core temps. also it makes no difference in orthos whether you have 4 cores, it still stresses the chip far beyond any game.

Stop fiddling with your heatsink, not only will it annoy you it will also be easier to break, Dont put too much paste on the chip, u just need a thin layer covering the square face of the cpu.( i put a very thin layer on the heatsink as well,but we all do it different)

lastly, enjoy your rig and dont stress(buy a good cooler)

cheers

 

[pneublet]

Thanks for your help