What are the timings for this memory?

[Texas-Hansen]

I'm considering upgrading my system memory from 4 gb (4 x 1GB) to 6 GB (2 x 1 GB + 2 x 2 GB). I'm an absolute novice at this stuff but am trying to learn quickly. The RAM is DDR2-800 and I'm now trying to figure out the timing on the existing RAM so that what I buy will match it properly (my system is an HP and I do not think I can alter the bios, etc. so I'm assuming I need a perfect match to make it work well together). Here is information taken from CPU-Z via a HTML dump. Is this 6-6-6-18 at 1.8v or 5-6-6-18 at 1.8v? Should the new memory match the timings and voltage exactly?



Chipset & Memory

Northbridge Intel P35/G33/G31 rev. A2
Southbridge Intel 82801IR (ICH9R) rev. 02
Graphic Interface PCI-Express
PCI-E Link Width x16
PCI-E Max Link Width x16
Memory Type DDR2
Memory Size 4096 MBytes
Memory Frequency 400.0 MHz (2:3)
CAS# Latency (tCL) 6.0 clocks
RAS# to CAS# (tRCD) 6 clocks
RAS# Precharge (tRP) 6 clocks
Cycle Time (tRAS) 18 clocks
Command Rate (CR) 2T

 

[niiif]

Why would you think the CAS is 5 when it clearly says 6? I don't see your point in wanting to upgrade to 6GB of memory. First dual channel with a 4 gig kit and the other a 2? IMO that's worse than having slightly different timings. Each channel works separate so it's not like your losing any performance.

But if it's any problem, just flash the bios, then tighten/loosen the timings to your liking.

Your name isn't blake or trevor by any chance is it?

Oh and what's the clock on your FSB?

 

[Texas-Hansen]

Why would you think the CAS is 5 when it clearly says 6? I don't see your point in wanting to upgrade to 6GB of memory. First dual channel with a 4 gig kit and the other a 2? IMO that's worse than having slightly different timings. Each channel works separate so it's not like your losing any performance.

But if it's any problem, just flash the bios, then tighten/loosen the timings to your liking.

Your name isn't blake or trevor by any chance is it?

As I said in my original post, I'm a novice at this stuff but trying to learn. In another thread where I did not have all this information, it was suggested that I might have 5 6 6 18 and when I saw this output from CPU-Z, I was confused...hence the thread seeking advice.

I currently have 4 Gb running on a system with Vista x64 and Q6700 2.66 ghz cpu. My system can handle up to 8 Gb of memory. I'd like to give it a little more punch for video editing. The current 4 Gb is in 4 modules of 1 Gb each. My thought was to pull 2 of 1 Gb modules out and replace them with 2 x 2 Gb modules making the total setup 2 x 1 Gb + 2 x 2 Gb for total of 6Gb. Is this not a good idea? Or, are you saying the timings between the pairs of memory modules really doesn't affect performance?

Thanks

 

[niiif]

Ah, so I see.

No, CPU-Z did give you the correct timmings at 6-6-6-18. It's not a bad idea, just make sure you take out the mem from slots 0 and 2, not 1 and 3. If you're looking for more punch, see if you can change your RAM:FSB ratio from 2:3 to 1:1, that way, you won't be losing performance from your RAM, and keep it that way when you upgrade to 6GB. The only timing you're really wanting to keep congruous is the CAS @ 6, but if you don't, it's fine, other than that it really doesn't matter, the lower the better actually. If you don't have a strict budget, you may want to look into replacing all of your memory with just one 8GB kit, (4 x 2GB) or 2 4GB (2X 2 x 2GB) kits is fine also. That would be an even better setup.

EDIT: Since your FSB is 1066 MHz, you won't be able to change the ratio any higher, unless you replace all of your RAM (your current mem speed is unable match the FSB speed). It would be best to have a 1:1 ratio, but If you aren't willing to replace all of your RAM, then 2:3 is as high as you can get. If that's your case and you want to stick to your original plan with 6GB, go with one of these:

Oh, and for these, don't aim to match your current RAM timings, CAS @ 6 is outdated for DDR2 800, so 3 or 4 would be better anyways. (2:3)

[LINK]

If you ARE willing to replace it all, one or TWO of these would be great: (1:1)

[LINK]

If you want don't care about the speed ratio and more concerned about load, and feel like going crazy, either of these would be outstanding, too: (2:3)

[LINK]

Well actually, before you go any further, is DDR2 800 your current RAM? If not, I need to know the old one.

More importantly, what mobo do you have, and even more specifically the frequencies supported by each DIMM?

 

[Texas-Hansen]

Ah, so I see.

No, CPU-Z did give you the correct timmings at 6-6-6-18. It's not a bad idea, just make sure you take out the mem from slots 0 and 2, not 1 and 3. If you're looking for more punch, see if you can change your RAM:FSB ratio from 2:3 to 1:1, that way, you won't be losing performance from your RAM, and keep it that way when you upgrade to 6GB. The only timing you're really wanting to keep congruous is the CAS @ 6, but if you don't, it's fine, other than that it really doesn't matter, the lower the better actually. If you don't have a strict budget, you may want to look into replacing all of your memory with just one 8GB kit, (4 x 2GB) or 2 4GB (2X 2 x 2GB) kits is fine also. That would be an even better setup.

EDIT: Since your FSB is 1066 MHz, you won't be able to change the ratio any higher, unless you replace all of your RAM (your current mem speed is unable match the FSB speed). It would be best to have a 1:1 ratio, but If you aren't willing to replace all of your RAM, then 2:3 is as high as you can get. If that's your case and you want to stick to your original plan with 6GB, go with one of these:

Oh, and for these, don't aim to match your current RAM timings, CAS @ 6 is outdated for DDR2 800, so 3 or 4 would be better anyways. (2:3)

[LINK]

If you ARE willing to replace it all, one or TWO of these would be great: (1:1)

[LINK]

If you want don't care about the speed ratio and more concerned about load, and feel like going crazy, either of these would be outstanding, too: (2:3)

[LINK]

Well actually, before you go any further, is DDR2 800 your current RAM? If not, I need to know the old one.

More importantly, what mobo do you have, and even more specifically the frequencies supported by each DIMM?

Thanks so much for the help and info.

Yes, my current RAM is
DDR2 800mhz.

My system is a HP. I've read, but do not know if it's true, that I can't modify the bios because HP "locks" it. If that is correct, will that have an effect on what type/specs I should chose?

How do I find the frequencies supported by the DIMM?

I'm not sure this is what you need but the MoBo info is:

Northbridge Intel P35/G33/G31 rev. A2

Manufacturer : PEGATRON CORPORATION
Product : Benicia
Version : 1.01
Support MP : Yes, 4 CPU(s)
Version MPS : 1.4

 

[niiif]

Well if you can't modify the BIOS it's okay, you just won't be able to tweak it much, which is not a problem. CPU-Z has a tab labeled SPD, where most of your memory information is located. If you can't find it, it is not a problem, all three of the options I listed earlier work, and work best with the rest of your setup.

Basically if you can't modify the BIOS, one of the features you aren't able to adjust is the ratio, which can improve your performance; however, it will default a ratio for you anyways. The ratio will automatically change based on the RAM you choose, it's up to you if you want 2:3 or 1:1 based on the options above.

You just won't be able to manually change the ratio.

 

[ausch30]

As I wrote in your other thread, run CPUZ and click the SPD (Serial Presence Detect) tab and you will have a screen like this

It shows all the speeds and voltages your current RAM is capable of.

I also linked you some RAM that would work fine in your system, it has very similar timings and what will happen is that the motherboard will set all the memory at the slowest timings which would be the settings you have now.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820146731

 

[Texas-Hansen]

Thanks. Now I'm beginning to understand all this.

CPUZ's SPD tab shows timing frequencies of 300 mhz and 400 mhz.

 

[ausch30]

Thanks. Now I'm beginning to understand all this.

CPUZ's SPD tab shows timing frequencies of 300 mhz and 400 mhz.

That's what I told you in the other thread
4-5-5-15 @ DDR2 667 and 5-6-6-18 @ DDR2 800

DDR stands for Dual Data Rate so DDR2 667 runs at 333x2 and DDR2 800 is actually running at 400x2 which is why CPUZ identifies it as 333 and 400.

Does CPUZ say 6-6-6-18 or 5-6-6-18 because what you listed before from PC Wizard shows the lower timings.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/forum2.php?config=tomshardwareus.inc&cat=30&post=251193&page=1&p=1&sondage=0&owntopic=1&trash=0&trash_post=0&print=0&numreponse=0&quote_only=0&new=0&nojs=0

 

[niiif]

Actually, if you have different timed sets of memory, your mobo does correct them to make all the timings equal. When it does this, it draws more power from your mobo, this is where the volts come in. The ram's vreg has to push different amounts of power to your memory, and when this happens, it can become unstable, thus leading to a number of problems. Point being, it's in your best interest to replace your entire RAM so your vreg doesn't have to concentrate different amounts of power to multiple sticks.

 

[Texas-Hansen]

Actually, if you have different timed sets of memory, your mobo does correct them to make all the timings equal. When it does this, it draws more power from your mobo, this is where the volts come in. The ram's vreg has to push different amounts of power to your memory, and when this happens, it can become unstable, thus leading to a number of problems. Point being, it's in your best interest to replace your entire RAM so your vreg doesn't have to concentrate different amounts of power to multiple sticks.

Thanks. So, it sounds like I either should find 4Gb (2 x 2Gb) that has same exact timings (6 6 6 18) and voltage (1.8v), or I need to start fresh and replace all RAM with new RAM (probably go all the way to 8Gb)that matches. If I replace all the RAM, will I need to go into the bios to adjust the voltage of the new RAM so it performs properly? (the reason I ask is that I think I can't change my bios. - HP system -- is there a way to figure out if I can change my bios?).

Thanks

 

[ausch30]

Actually, if you have different timed sets of memory, your mobo does correct them to make all the timings equal. When it does this, it draws more power from your mobo, this is where the volts come in. The ram's vreg has to push different amounts of power to your memory, and when this happens, it can become unstable, thus leading to a number of problems. Point being, it's in your best interest to replace your entire RAM so your vreg doesn't have to concentrate different amounts of power to multiple sticks.

That's not true, if he has 2@ 5-6-6-18 1.8v and 2@ 5-5-5-18 1.8v the motherboard will run them all at 5-6-6-18 1.8v so the 2 sticks will just be running slightly slower than they are rated for.

 

[Texas-Hansen]

That's what I told you in the other thread
4-5-5-15 @ DDR2 667 and 5-6-6-18 @ DDR2 800

DDR stands for Dual Data Rate so DDR2 667 runs at 333x2 and DDR2 800 is actually running at 400x2 which is why CPUZ identifies it as 333 and 400.

Does CPUZ say 6-6-6-18 or 5-6-6-18 because what you listed before from PC Wizard shows the lower timings.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/forum2.php?config=tomshardwareus.inc&cat=30&post=251193&page=1&p=1&sondage=0&owntopic=1&trash=0&trash_post=0&print=0&numreponse=0&quote_only=0&new=0&nojs=0

Thanks. It seems odd to me and I'm wondering if I'm reading the reports correctly. Here's the HTML dump from CPUZ. It seems to look like it's 6 6 6 18 but PC Wizard suggests maybe its 5 6 6 18???? (I put the PC Wizard info below also). What do you think?

CPU-Z Results:

Memory Type DDR2
Memory Size 4096 MBytes
Memory Frequency 400.0 MHz (2:3)
CAS# Latency (tCL) 6.0 clocks
RAS# to CAS# (tRCD) 6 clocks
RAS# Precharge (tRP) 6 clocks
Cycle Time (tRAS) 18 clocks
Command Rate (CR) 2T


PC Wizard Results:

Information SPD EEPROM (DIMM0) :
Manufacturer : MOSEL
Part Number : V916765K24QCFW-G6
Serial Number : 02A72A8C
Type : DDR2-SDRAM PC2-6400 (399 MHz) - [DDR2-800]
Format : Regular UDIMM (133.35 x 3)
Size : 1024 MB (2 ranks, 4 banks)
Module Buffered : No
Module Registered : No
Module SLi Ready (EPP) : No
Width : 64-bit
Error Correction Capability : No
Max. Burst Length : 8
Refresh : Reduced (.5x)7.8 µs, Self Refresh
Voltage : SSTL 1.8v
Prefetch Buffer : 4-bit
Manufacture : Week 17 of 2008
Supported Frequencies : 333 MHz, 400 MHz
CAS Latency (tCL) : 4 clocks @333 MHz, 5 clocks @400 MHz
RAS to CAS (tRCD) : 5 clocks @333 MHz, 6 clocks @400 MHz
RAS Precharge (tRP) : 5 clocks @333 MHz, 6 clocks @400 MHz
Cycle Time (tRAS) : 15 clocks @333 MHz, 18 clocks @400 MHz
Min TRC : 20 clocks @333 MHz, 24 clocks @400 MHz

 

[ausch30]

I think PC Wizard might be reading it wrong. If you open CPUZ and click the memory tab you will end up with a screen like this

That tells you everything about how your memory is currently running.

Oh and for future reference that is from my old memory which was DDR2 800 running @ DDR2 1066 so if anyone ever tells you you need anything faster than 800 don't listen.

 

[Texas-Hansen]

I think PC Wizard might be reading it wrong. If you open CPUZ and click the memory tab you will end up with a screen like this
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z311/AUsch30/Untitled-1.jpg
That tells you everything about how your memory is currently running.

Oh and for future reference that is from my old memory which was DDR2 800 running @ DDR2 1066 so if anyone ever tells you you need anything faster than 800 don't listen.

Thanks. Sounds like I might have 6 6 6 18 at 1.8v based on CPU-Z. In that case, what would be a good match to buy so it plays well with the existing 1 x 2 Gb of 6 6 6 18 at 1.8v RAM that will be left after upgrading? In the end, what are the important numbers to match - the first 6 or the 18 at the end, and keep the voltage the same at 1.8v?

What about issues with modifying the bios? Will I need to make any modifications to the bios? (I found some info on HP's support site that suggests the bios password can be cleared so that things can be adjusted???). Here's info on motherboard too taken from HP's support page that also includes info on clearing bios password at the bottom of web page. http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c01324212&lc=en&cc=us&dlc=en&product=3688702&lang=en

Does the motherboard info impact on what RAM I choose or does that not really make much difference in the end?



Motherboard description Motherboard manufacturer's name: Asus IPIBL-LB
HP/Compaq name: Benicia-GL8E

CPU/Processor Socket: 775
Supports the following processors:
Core 2 Quad Q9xxx with Quad Core technology
Core 2 Duo E8xxx
Core 2 Quad Q6xx0 with Quad Core technology
Core 2 Duo E6x00
Core 2 Duo E4x00

Front-side bus (FSB) 800/1066/1333 MHz

Chipset Intel G33

BIOS features Keyboard combination to used to enter BIOS: F10
System BIOS core brand: Award

Form factor micro-ATX: 9.6 in X 9.6 in

Memory Dual channel memory architecture
Four 240-pin DDR2 DIMM sockets
Supported DIMM types:
PC2-5300 (667 MHz)
PC2-6400 (800 MHz)
Non-ECC memory only, unbuffered
Supports 2GB DDR2 DIMMs
Supports up to 8 GB on 64 bit PCs
Supports up to 4 GB* on 32 bit PCs



NOTE: *Actual available memory may be less

Expansion slots One PCI
One PCI Express x16 graphics (for graphics cards)
Two PCI Express x1 (for cards such as network, sound, tv-tuner)

Video graphics Integrated graphics using Intel GMA 3100
Also supports PCI Express x16 graphics cards



NOTE: Either integrated graphics or the PCI Express x16 slot are usable at one time; they are not usable concurrently.

Serial ATA Six SATA connectors:
Supports 1 SATA-150 or SATA-300 disk drive on each SATA connector
Speed up to 1.5Gb/sec or 3.0Gb/sec, complying with SATA 1.0 and SATA 2.0 specifications



NOTE: The faster rate of 3.0Gb/sec requires that both the hard drive and the motherboard support it. If one or the other does not support 3.0 Gb/sec, the PC negotiates down to the slower 1.5 Gb/sec.

RAID Onboard RAID controller: ICH9R
Selected Benicia models ship RAID-ready (For Spring 08, only selected CTO models will ship RAID-ready)
RAID modes supported*:
RAID 0
RAID 1



NOTE: RAID 5 requires three HDDs and RAID 10 requires four HDDs. While this motherboard can support RAID 10, only RAID 0 and RAID 1 modes are supported on computer models using this motherboard.

Onboard audio Audio CODEC: ALC888S
7.1 channel high-definition audio
Onboard LAN 1 Realtek 8111C 10/100/1000 Mb/s (Gigabit Ethernet) Integrated LAN



NOTE: Gigabit Ethernet is backwards compatible with 10/100 Mb/s network hardware.

Onboard USB USB 2.0
Twelve ports total
Four connectors on back panel
Six headers (four 1x4 and two 2x5 USB headers) support eight additional USB ports/devices



NOTE: Some USB ports may not be available externally for customer use. For more information, see model specifications.

Onboard 1394 Type: IEEE 1394a 400Mb/s
Agere LFW3227 controller chip
Two ports total
One port on back panel
One header on motherboard supporting one additional port/device

Back panel I/0 One PS/2 mouse port (green)
One PS/2 keyboard port (purple)
One coaxial SPDIF out
One coaxial SPDIF in
One VGA port
Four USB 2.0
One 6-pin IEEE 1394a
One RJ-45 networking port
Six Stereo-mini audio jacks for:
Line-in (light blue)
Microphone-in (pink)
Line-out (lime)
Center/Subwoofer-out (yellow-orange)
Side speaker-out (gray)
Rear speaker-out (black)

Internal connectors One 24-pin ATX power connector
One 4-pin ATX power connector
Six SATA connectors
One floppy drive connector
Two 12v fan connectors for CPU fan and PC fan
One 9-pin header for power button, reset button, power LED, and HDD LED
Three USB 2.0 headers supporting 6 USB ports or devices
One IEEE 1394a header
One SPDIF audio output header
One 4-pin audio line-input connector (interrupts line input on back panel, Vista capable, requires matching front audio jack module)
One 9-pin audio header for headphone-out and microphone-in (yellow, Vista capable, requires matching front audio jack module)
One Intel high-definition Audio/Modem Link (2x8 HDMI connector)
One jumper for resetting BIOS settings
One jumper to disable BIOS password checking

 

[ausch30]

The standard for DDR2 is 1.8v so that is what the board will default to. You might be able to get into the BIOS and you might be able to change some settings but most OEM's lock you out of a lot of settings because the don't want the service calls from someone who screwed up their BIOS. You have an Asus board and Asus uses Award BIOS and Award uses Delete to enter the bios so restart and try hitting Delete and see if it lets you in.

 

[Texas-Hansen]

The standard for DDR2 is 1.8v so that is what the board will default to. You might be able to get into the BIOS and you might be able to change some settings but most OEM's lock you out of a lot of settings because the don't want the service calls from someone who screwed up their BIOS. You have an Asus board and Asus uses Award BIOS and Award uses Delete to enter the bios so restart and try hitting Delete and see if it lets you in.

Thanks. I'll have to try that later when I home with the computer. In an ideal world, I'd like it best if I didn't have to mess with the bios and it was just pop out the 2 modules and pop in the two new modules to increase the RAM.

Given the 6 6 6 18 likely timings, are the ones you suggested earlier (before I think we pin pointed the exact timings) a good match to buy so it plays well with the existing 1 x 2 Gb of 6 6 6 18 at 1.8v RAM that will be left after upgrading? In the end, what are the important numbers to match - the first 6 or the 18 at the end, and keep the voltage the same at 1.8v?

 

[niiif]

If you don't want to mess with your bios, don't upgrade to 6GB. Vista will reserve those 2GB you add by default, and in order for it to actually take in to effect, you'd HAVE to go into the BIOS.

Do you see 6GB kits sold by resellers anywhere? or even 3GB? No, because of a list of reasons that would take me too long to explain.

I think several of us have given you adequate advice, most of which is in full agreement with each other. You will not find 6-6-6-18 DDR2 800 RAM, it's old, outdated, you don't want it and it's better if you just get RAM with faster timings (faster timings have smaller numbers.) Because you do not want to change your BIOS, I will not go into how to properly add RAM with different timings to your existing RAM.

If you for some reason want the weaker RAM, with the same timings as your old one, I'll find you some. But just because you have all the same timings doesn't mean it performs better.

It is best if you get a new set of 4GB with faster timings, or 8 gigs would even be greater.

However, if wish to be stubborn:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148160
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231112

 

[Texas-Hansen]

If you don't want to mess with your bios, don't upgrade to 6GB. Vista will reserve those 2GB you add by default, and in order for it to actually take in to effect, you'd HAVE to go into the BIOS.

Do you see 6GB kits sold by resellers anywhere? or even 3GB? No, because of a list of reasons that would take me too long to explain.

I think several of us have given you adequate advice, most of which is in full agreement with each other. You will not find 6-6-6-18 DDR2 800 RAM, it's old, outdated, you don't want it and it's better if you just get RAM with faster timings (faster timings have smaller numbers.) Because you do not want to change your BIOS, I will not go into how to properly add RAM with different timings to your existing RAM.

If you for some reason want the weaker RAM, with the same timings as your old one, I'll find you some. But just because you have all the same timings doesn't mean it performs better.

It is best if you get a new set of 4GB with faster timings, or 8 gigs would even be greater.

However, if wish to be stubborn:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148160
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231112

Thanks for the additional information. Sounds like the easiest approach to add memory is to scrap what I have and go for 8 Gb of the same thing and let the mother board set itself (since I'm not sure I can get access to the bios to adjust it - I'd be happy to try it but I HP limits or locks what I can do to it).

You suggest this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231151 G-Skill which looks pretty good and price is reasonable.

Is it better to get a kit that has all 8 Gb in it, or can I purchase two identical kits of 4 Gb (2 x 2Gb) (such as this http://www.frys.com/product/5269577 from Frys) to make up the 8 Gb?

 

[niiif]

Well, that is really up to you. What version of Vista are you running? 32-bit or 64bit?

 

[Texas-Hansen]

Well, that is really up to you. What version of Vista are you running? 32-bit or 64bit?

64 bit

 

[niiif]

Perfect, it should work plug and play.

 

[Texas-Hansen]

Once I get it installed, what's the best way to test if it improved performance?

 

[niiif]

Before you uninstall your old memory, do a benchmark test a save the results. Then once you install the new memory, run a benchmark test and compare your results.

You can also download some programs to monitor your speeds and loads and watch how they perform differently.

Benchmarks
http://www.futuremark.com/download/pcmarkvantage/
http://files1.extremeoverclocking.com/d0c24e6ca2af4184b26d89fb65a86d5b/benchmarks/san1424.zip

Let me know if you need more keys.

 

[Texas-Hansen]

Thanks for all the help. Much appreciated.