E2180 psu cooling

[dgafninja]

I know i still need to replace the psu and possibly some other parts from the list below before i try to attempt overclocking this current setup. The main things I need are some suggestions to keep the heat down. 5 fans including CPU fan and im still running hot or at least think so. With bone stock BIOS settings and 1st boot of the day it will read 98-100F/37-37C. Is that too hot? The ambient/room temp is 68-75F/20-24C. The CPU cooler is the stock hs/f combo from HP Pavilion S3600F w/new thermal compound. Other fans are; 2x 80mm fans on clear side of case both on highes settings with the top one almost directly above the cpu mounted for exhaust and the other directly below it/intake, 1x 120mm fan on rear/exhaust, and 1x 120mm fan on front/intake. My cpu fan runs 100%speed, 100% of the time. In other words, annoying as hell. So i have done some "window" shopping/homework on some new hs/f combos and read some reviews only to still be indecisive. My options, that i know of, for computer part stores locally are either Best Buy or Microcenter. I would shop online but i like to see it with my own eyes/touch with my own hands before i buy. So before i head to my nearest Microcenter or, yikes, best buy for the psu i was hoping for any suggestions from the forum readers on a tried and true hs/f combo to get at the same time? Im looking for one that will keep this cpu cool but will also allow me the capability to beef up the cpu at a later time and keep that one cool with out replacing the hs/f combo again. Thanks.

Some background info on my build experience:
***This is my first system build and lets just say during this build i have beginner pc building down. Meaning i know how the to put it all together and basic component compatibility. Most BIOS settings are kind of over my head. I started with a bone stock HP Pavilion Slimline S3600F from best buy. This was a fine economic system for running basic programs and sims2 with low settings until i wanted to upgrade for gaming. Being a NOOB i figured adding a new graphics card and some memory i would be fine.... HAHAHAHA!! Yes im laughing with you. The nightmare and learning process begins... Installed the graphics card listed below... Find out the hard way you need to match or exceed power requirements. Doh!! So i start looking for an upgrade psu for the slimline case that met the 300w power requirements... Again I am laughing with you. Not to mention the 24 pin connector on the slimline motherboard was some kind of shrunken mini version that had no conversion adapter. Long story short i was told by an employee of Microcenter that i needed to update to a larger case and motherboard to have the upgrade capabilities i wanted. (NEVER AGAIN ON THE MINI CASE!! LESSON LEARNED!!!) So keep in mind that, yes i did go cheap on some of the parts. I did so on purpose so if i did something wrong it would not cost me an arm + leg to replace the ruined components and also to get a little more hands on experience with custom pc builds. But i just have a feeling that i will be upgrading/building my computers from now on. Especially since i see how much money i could have saved in the beginning. So eventually i will upgrade and was wondering what sub par components are going to need to be replaced first in the near future. The most stress i put on the system is some 3d gaming (Fallout3 is currently the most taxing) but i dont max it out nor do i play online games or run system taxing programs. I was told that my mobo is halfway decent until the next CPU socket design but i cant find many useful reviews?????***

Current system specs:
-Case= Thermaltake Black Widow Soprano RS, Part#VG7000BWS
-Motherboard= MSI P43Neo3-F, Part#MS-7514
Northbridge= Intel P45/P43 revision A3
Southbridge= Intel 82801JR (ICH10R) revision A3
-CPU= Pentium E2180 Core 2 Duo @2.0GHz 800MHz FSB ( transfered from HP Slimline S3600F with stock hs/f combo)
-RAM= 2x PNY Optima 2GB PC2-6400 800MHz DDR2 (4GB Total), Part#MD4096KD2-800
-GPU= BFG Nvidia GeForce 9400GT, 512MB DDR2, #BFGR94512GTE
-HS/F= (stock that came in HP Slimline S3600F)
-PSU= Dynex ATX 400watt, Part#DX-400WPS
-Storage;
HDD#1=(internal 3.5" ) Samsung W/OS. 250GB, Part#HD251HJ
HDD#2=(internal 3.5" ) Seagate Baracuda. 80GB, Part#ST380011A
HDD#3(external USB)= Maxtor. 250GB, (back up & media storage) Part#ST9250827AS
CD/DVD-RW=LG Electronics/Lightscribe capable, Part#HL-DT-ST DVD-Ram GH10L
-Monitor= Westinghouse L1920NW 18.5", 1366x768 resolution, 1000:1 contrast ratio
-Cooling;
2x Antec TriCool 3.125" (80mm) 34cfm@2600rpmMAX (mounted at side. Top fan set to high/exhaust.
Bottom fan set to high/intake), Part#(unknown)
1x Dynex Case Fan 4.7" (120mm) 73cfm@2200rpm +/-10% (mounted at front. Non-adjustable speed.
Set for intake), Part#DX-HF120M
1X Thermaltake Case Fan 4.7" (120mm) 78cfm@2000rpm (mounted at rear. Non-adjustable speed.
Set for exhaust), Part#A2368
1x (stock w/pavilion) CPU heat sink/fan combo, Part#AUC812D (MFR. unknown)
-Operating System= Windows Vista Home Premium 64-bit SP1
-Games Currently Playing= Fallout3, Sims2 (with various expansion packs), Heros of Might and Magic V, Roller Coaster Tycoon 3, and a bunch of other outdated games.
***(is there more information i need to include when i post up my system specs?)***

Again thanks for the fast responses and very helpful information. ****Just bought a Thermaltake V1 heat sink and fan combo today. So i hope to bring the temps down but i still need to figure out the other weak links.****

 

[Mondoman]

Sounds like you may have too much intake and not enough exhaust flow. I'd unplug the front fan and the side fans and stick with a single 120mm rear exhaust fan along with the PS fan.

 

[Conumdrum]

Sounds like you need a new heatsink/fan. Case flow isn't optimal but better than a lot who come in here with the same problems.

The V1 is a bit outdated but on that CPU it's fine. My E6600 overclocked to 3.0 never went above 53C.

Let us know, you have any questions on TIM application etc?

 

[dgafninja]

So i have installed a new Thermaltake V1 CPU cooler unit with no apparent problems. Meaning it is mounted, greased using supplied thermal paste, powered and operational. The temp readings from my post above are before the hs/f swap and were taken off of my BIOS screen. After the installation of the new hs/f i checked BIOS again. Hurrraayyyy!! Temps dropped from 37*C to 29*C even with the fan set to 50%. The general idea i got from the forums and product reviews is that a drop in CPU temp by that much is rather significant. My problem here is that most of the CPU temp readings i see online have already been OC'ed. The opinion of safe high temp vary greatly. I have even seen one say that 68*C(154*F) is totally exceptable. By no means am i the expert but that just seems like a really high temp????? Now i do keep in mind that there will be variables from one setup to the next so im not expecting a definite answer on target/safe temps on a non OC'ed CPU but a range of 24*C-68*C leaves a lot in the middle???? Either way, I believe that my CPU temp is acceptable, or at least until im ready for the overclock.

The next issue i came across i did not find until i ran a program called SIW (system information for windows). I do like all the information that it provides although i cant seem to find a way to benchtest or stress test?? Anyways. BIOS did not give me GPU temp reading. So after i run SIW i look down to the GPU temp section. The min temp was 54*C(129*F) max temp reached was 68*C(154*F)!! Thats way hotter than the CPU... Does this sound right? Same thing as searching for CPU temps. A bunch of OC'ed marks with no real clear base range of heat tolerance/safe zone. I do like all the information that SIW provided although i cant seem to find a way to benchtest or stress test?? I read that Prime95 can stress test and perform other vital tests before/during/and after overclocking but the description on the program i read was slightly over my NOOBIE head?? (i cant wait to figure a lot of this stuff out. Then i wont clog forum space with all these very NOOB like questions). So let me get to the point(s) of this whole post.

#1- Does anybody know what a basic safe or optimal temp range is for a stock clocked, Pentium E2180 with factory heatsink/fan (CPU & cooler came out of a HP Pavilion Slimline S3600f)?

#2- Now that i have cooled down the CPU next is the GPU. Again a temp spec for the video card would be very helpful. (would turning my 80mm side fan that currently blows exhaust into an intake fan above the GPU help at all? I cant tell which way the GPU fan actually blows.)

#3- Are there any suggestions for a benchmark/stress test program out there that is very user friendly? (ex. Made for the beginner?)

#4- And lastly, I may just be looking in the wrong places but does anybody know a good website or other resource for an inexperienced beginner such as myself??

Thanks a million for all the help out there!!!!

 

[Conumdrum]

Orthos for the CPU stress test, Realtemp to monitor the temp of the CPU. Furmark for GPU stress test. Riva tuner and/or ATI tool for GPU monitoring.

Your GPU is fine, GPU temps on stock air can get into the 80's without any problems. And yes, most of us have the side case fan blowing in. You can ALWAYS improve your case airflow, better fans, bigger fans stc.

You just need a few months of playing with stuff, reading forums and participating and learning. Find a few better forums with more posts in this area. Toms is Kinda like radio shack.

Standard noob concerns, your on the right track.

 

[dgafninja]

Thank you! Even though some think this is the "radio shack" of forums I have received more help from here than ANYWHERE else. Overclock.net has some helpful information its just a little more tricky to find. I actually just went out and got another case fan (the only other space i had available was for an 80mm). So should i clear it with air traffic control when this thing decides to take off? HA! Until i download the other diag utilities i used SIW again. The GPU has dropped to 51*C(123*F) but i have not loaded anything up besides Vista. At least my cooling is becoming a tad more stable.

But if its not one thing it will definitly be another. At the same time i installed the fan i installed 2 more mem sticks. They were the ones out of my paper weight slimline. Already in place were the 2x2GB PNY Optima PC2-6400 800MHz set in the green colored DIMMs for dual channel. I placed the 2x1GB Samsung PC2-6400 800MHz in the orange DIMMs. I did read on a site somewhere today that the green slots on my board (MSI P43NEO3-F PCB1.0) would be considered channel 1, orange being channel 2. Also read there to put slower mem modules in channel 2. Not that the speeds are different, just less meat if im not mistaken. Well everything runs and i think all is fine but i though i would post up these numbers from the SIW test and let the scrutiny begin. By the way are these sets of memory any good? I dont think i read single bad review or remark on the Samsung sticks but couldnt find to much besides performance specs on the PNY sticks.

~~ Slots #1 & #3 contain the PNY Optima 2GB sticks, Slots #2 & #4 contain the 1GB Samsung M378t2863QZS-CF7 sticks

***This is almost EXACTLY word for word/and absolutely the EXACT numbers from the diag readout from SIW sheet ( wont let me copy&paste) ***
~~Memory Summary
DRAM FREQ= 334.2MHz
MEMORY TIMINGS= 5-5-5-15 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)
~~Memory Slot 1 & Memory Slot 3 (matched pair of PNY Optima PC2-6400 800MHz)
Capacity= 2048MBytes
Type= DDR2 (PC2-6400)
Speed= 400MHz (DDR2 800)
Supported Freq= 266MHz, 400MHz
Memory Timings= 4-4-4-12-16@266MHz, 1.8v (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC)
5-5-5-18-23@400mhZ, 1.8V(CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC)
Data Width= 64 bits
EPP SPD Support= No/XMP SPD Support=No
~~Memory Slot 2 & Memory Slot 4 (matched pair of Samsung M378t2863QZS-CF7 PC2-6400 800MHZ)
Capacity= 1024MBytes
Type= DDR2 (PC2-6400)
Speed= 400MHz (DDR2800)
Supported Freq=266MHz, 333MHz, 400MHz
Memory Timings= 4-4-4-12-16@266MHz, 1.8v (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC)
5-5-5-15-20@333MHz, 1.8v (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC)
6-6-6-18-24@400MHz, 1.8v (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC)
Data Width= 64 bits
EPP SPD Support= No/XMP SPD Support=No

Manufacturing Date= 2008, Week33 (Samsung sticks, no date on PNY sticks)

 

[Conumdrum]

I only buy the same exact to use. Not good to mix mem. You don't know what mem chips they use (the fab for them) and what the deep timings are.

If it works, great. It can cause OC instability, so DL memetest and figure out how to make a USB boot or make a boot floppy for it.

 

[Shadow703793]

Imo, replace PSU ASAP. Not because you are OCing, but rather because Dynex is a pretty low quality brand. In one of the reviews a cap actually popped when loaded to 50%. Let me see if I can find the review.

 

[dgafninja]

Yikes. I definitely dont need that to happen. I have been doing some research on a replacement unit for sure. Should have before gettin this one (DOH!) Thanks. And im just going to get another matched pair of the PNY Optima PC2-6400's intead of tryin to mess with 2 diff sets in two diff channels. Thanks for all the great help. Temps are in check now, memory soon to be in check as well as psu. Then its overclocking time. Sweet!! I have been reading some great numbers for OC speeds on my particular CPU. Cant wait.

 

[dgafninja]

One more quick question. As far as reliability which mem should i go with.
2 more PNY Optima DDR2 PC@-6400 (the same ones i have)?
Or replace all of them with 4x OCZ Vista Performance 2GB DDR2-800 (PC-6400)
(http://microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0264254)??? The OCZ are cheap for the matched pair so that concerns me.

 

[Shadow703793]

^imo, I would go with the GSkill PI DDR2 800.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231209
$45
It's only a bit more than the OCZ, but MUCH better.

 

[dgafninja]

Ok. All great recommendations. Im going with the g skill memory and im thinking of getting the rosewill stallion series 500w psu. But here is what im thinking will be another noob-esque like question. Is allocating to much virtual memory a bad thing? Or what is pretty much standard settings?

 

[Shadow703793]

^Don't get the Rosewill PSUs. They are low quality also. Get a good PSU from Corsair, PC Power & Cooling, Antec, OCZ.

As far as swapfile goes, with 4GB you can turn it off completely.

 

[dgafninja]

Almost did it again didnt i? Im glad this forum has well informed people. Keep me from making the same mistakes over and over again. Just for clarification, im not going to need virtual memory even for gaming?

 

[Conumdrum]

It's automatic. I don't get it, it's part of the windows management system. Maybe back in 1982 or so when you could config your ram etc. You buy the mem, you put it in.

 

[Shadow703793]

Almost did it again didnt i? Im glad this forum has well informed people. Keep me from making the same mistakes over and over again. Just for clarification, im not going to need virtual memory even for gaming?

From my experience if you have more than 4GB RAM it's fine to disable pagefile/virtual ram (this is more of a performance boosting thing; the idea is that RAM is faster than your HDD so CPU/OS can access data faster). Of course, if you run CAD,etc you will need ~6GB to turn off swap. Also note some few programs will complain if you don't have a swap file.

For additional info:
http://www.pctipsbox.com/speed-up-windows-by-optimizing-your-page-file/

Over at Tom’s Hardware Guide, they tested a Windows Vista machine with 8GBs of RAM, and promptly disabled the page file to see what would happen. The 8 GB system ran just like normal, but when they lowered the amount of memory available to 2 GBs, system instability occurred. “Applications immediately crash as soon as the system runs out of RAM and Windows is unable to write the files to virtual memory on the hard drive.” Their only solution was to reboot. Limiting the memory even further to 512 MBs resulted in no longer being able to open any applications without the system crashing. Even low resource Windows-based applications like Notepad caused it to crash. The systems also crashed while idling after a short while.

From personal experience I prefer to disable page file for gaming systems (4GB+) and keep it about 2GB on 8GB RAM CAD builds.

 

[dgafninja]

Very informative. Thank you. I turned it all off and no problems what so ever. So i should be smooth sailing until i replace the psu and start over clocking. In the meantime im going to enjoy Fallout 3. Thanks again for all of your help Shadow and Conumdrum.