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The 4870x2 is a true monster

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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a b U Graphics card
June 6, 2008 2:13:37 AM

Looks like we will all be looking good in red this time round http://www.vr-zone.com/content/1

More about : 4870x2 true monster

June 6, 2008 2:24:47 AM

damn...lets hope its true
a c 176 U Graphics card
June 6, 2008 2:25:15 AM

Meh, synthetic cr@p. The 2900XT won 3dmark races to, look how that turned out. I'll wait for NDAs to lift so I can see real scores.
a b U Graphics card
June 6, 2008 2:28:59 AM

Thats true, I hate bungholios too. But this is a new aproach with ATI, so those 2900 numbers and using Vantage make this a whole new ballgame. It could have flipflopped like the 1xxx series vs the 7xxx series too. Anyways, more is better ATP.
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
June 6, 2008 2:33:49 AM

damn... sweet...

lol
June 6, 2008 2:34:35 AM

I think the main reason that ATI seems to usually come out on top in the 3DMark scores and yet fall behind against tests in gaming is that most game makers seem to favor Nvidia (or used to at least).

Might be just me, but I've seen a lot of 'The way it's meant to be played.' stickers on PC game boxes and the same thing in the pre-start-menu ads (or whatever you call those) when you boot up a game. And these appear more (in my experience) than similar stickers/ads for running best on ATI cards.

So I guess to me it seems like 3DMark and some choice games are GPU independent when it comes to the GPU maker, but a lot of developers are (or used to) favor the green team and so they usually came out on top.
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
June 6, 2008 2:35:39 AM

still... thats over 2. 5 times as good as 8800 gt in extreme mode... for the gtx 280... still I think gtx 280 will come out on top just because ati usually does better than nvidia in 3dmark...
a b U Graphics card
June 6, 2008 2:40:29 AM

The way I see it is this. 3DMark 06 showed the cards capabilities. Those capabilities dont necesarily translate into great game performance if the card isnt optimized, or balanced. What we might see is that ATI has finally brought that balance, and ability out in these new cards. We will see if thats true soon
June 6, 2008 2:47:58 AM

I think its admittedly good that the 4870x2 does beat the gtx 280 given that its a crossfire onboard graphics adapter.

However, it does not beat the gtx280 by over 50% according to their numbers; which does imply that gtx 280 SLI is still going to be higher performance my a large margin.

However, at the 500$ price point; that is incredibly good performance and it has to be applauded, bravo.
June 6, 2008 2:50:50 AM

I cant wait anymore I am going INSANE. I have been waiting for 2 months to buy my computer, but I keep telling my self just wait until these cards come out. This upcoming weeks are gonna be killer..really wish they would just come out already.
June 6, 2008 2:53:03 AM

I really truly hope that the gt200 series is a markable performance increase over current gen; because if it is come fall i'm going to be running SLI gt200 myself!

I think the new tech is going to be great by both sides, costs regardless it looks good.
June 6, 2008 2:59:48 AM

ovaltineplease said:
I think its admittedly good that the 4870x2 does beat the gtx 280 given that its a crossfire onboard graphics adapter.

However, it does not beat the gtx280 by over 50% according to their numbers; which does imply that gtx 280 SLI is still going to be higher performance my a large margin.

However, at the 500$ price point; that is incredibly good performance and it has to be applauded, bravo.


True enough, but you could always put two 4870X2's in crossfire and that would murder two GTX280's in SLI for about the same price and reportedly consume less power as well.
June 6, 2008 3:03:27 AM

Maybe, maybe not

The current Quad Crossfire for the 3000 series is apparently better than Nvidia's Tri SLI, however that doesn't necessarily mean the next gen will be the same.

And myself well, i'd be looking at a motherboard change if I did that; however it might work out to the exact same cost for that matter given the higher cost of the gt200 series, you never know until its out I suppose.

I think the biggest caveat against the 4870x2 is likely to be quad crossfire support/performance/scaling, its something that really hasn't been discussed that much at all, I get a feeling its not really a big priority for them in their new marketing plans.
a b U Graphics card
June 6, 2008 3:16:05 AM

nVidias had plenty of time to improve current situations too. If this turns out that the 4870x2 is as fast to the 280sli as the 3870x2 is to the 9800gtx sli, then nVidia has been sitting on their thumbs. And if these specs and pricing holds up, then this will be a huge catchup in price performance for ATI
June 6, 2008 3:20:45 AM

Agreed, looks like there will be great competition this year and plenty of great options for pretty much every user base.
a b U Graphics card
June 6, 2008 3:23:52 AM

So far, ATI shows a 15% increase on their gap with nVidia, and then you have the pricing figures to boot. Real good for us this year
June 6, 2008 3:31:20 AM

Dude can it play Crysis in 1900x1200? Or should I continue to dream on?
June 6, 2008 3:32:12 AM

Like I said, 3Dmark counts for nothing for me:)  lol.

I wanna see REAL gaming scores:p 

Not knocking on your post, I"m happy I saw that:D 
June 6, 2008 3:38:48 AM

L1qu1d said:
Like I said, 3Dmark counts for nothing for me:)  lol.

I wanna see REAL gaming scores:p 

Not knocking on your post, I"m happy I saw that:D 


REAL GAMING SCORES!!!
a b U Graphics card
June 6, 2008 3:41:40 AM

The people that have these cards are itching to tell, but of course they cant. Its like this. The easy slips of info goes first. Ones that in no way violates NDA. Then they get itchy and come up with ways to give glimpses without breaking the NDA. Im betting someones going to slip up, and soon
June 6, 2008 3:45:36 AM

^Yep, the Chinese as always, nothing racial here though:) 
a b U Graphics card
June 6, 2008 3:49:10 AM

Hey, Im looking east as well
a b U Graphics card
June 6, 2008 3:58:29 AM

Dune that look nice
June 6, 2008 4:00:14 AM

looks like gtx280 supports 3way SLI if i made out the picture correctly.
June 6, 2008 4:03:37 AM

Yes, it surely does support their newest 3way-SLI technology.
a b U Graphics card
June 6, 2008 4:03:46 AM

Optical audio out too
a b U Graphics card
June 6, 2008 4:08:02 AM

Physics will run on all newer cards
June 6, 2008 4:56:34 AM

All we need is an independant cold fusion for our tri SLI system and we'll be set
June 6, 2008 5:44:22 AM

Let me get this right...
They are saying TWO 4870's beat one 280?

Big deal AMD. Go back to teh faktory and has a cookie.
a b U Graphics card
June 6, 2008 5:51:59 AM

And theyll be cheaper as well
June 6, 2008 6:56:49 AM

Yippikaiiyeee!!!!

Die GTsuX, die!! :p 
June 6, 2008 7:44:01 AM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
Thats true, I hate bungholios too. But this is a new aproach with ATI, so those 2900 numbers and using Vantage make this a whole new ballgame. It could have flipflopped like the 1xxx series vs the 7xxx series too. Anyways, more is better ATP.


Vantage is unfortunately not a whole new ball game. A same specced system comparing a 9800GTX with a card like my 8800GTS 640 can score over twice as high. Twice.

The performance level in real terms however is nowhere near as high.

It would be easy to fall back upon "more is better" however we only need to look back to the 2900 to see why this is not correct...

However, always the optimist, I am hopeful.
a b U Graphics card
June 6, 2008 7:55:02 AM

But like I was saying, less was more with the 1900 vs the 7900, and since these cards have some fixes to them, its not unreasonable to see the 2 companies = in 3Dmark, or even flipflipped
June 6, 2008 10:40:13 AM

mrmez said:
Let me get this right...
They are saying TWO 4870's beat one 280?

Big deal AMD. Go back to teh faktory and has a cookie.



Always funny to hear such stupid fanboys :lol: 

It doesnt matter dude, you get more for less money.
Its like laughing to Core2duo because its 2 glued dual cores to make quad but it works and it beats AMD so who cares.
I like AMD more but I am not some stupid fanboy that burns money for no reason.

I have had Intel and AMD, Nvidia and ATI, hell I even have 8800GT at the moment but I like the new Radeons and cant say they are not good if all the info is true

Go buy yourself a Porsche with hyunday engine in it just to show off :lol: 
June 6, 2008 10:49:53 AM

Porsche with Hyundai engine?

*somewhere in a dank room of South Korea a disgruntled car factory worker commits suicide*
June 6, 2008 10:52:49 AM

its metaphor :) 
June 6, 2008 12:33:36 PM

The flip side, being the 1900 v 7900 3D Mark performance just goes to show that benchmarks like this simply cannot accurately demonstrate how a card will perform in real life situations, especially without any other evidence of power.

It was a good find on the article, but simply hoping that because a card 2 generations ago performed differently to the last generation when making a comparison, that this current offering will be superior is clutching at straws.

The facts as we know them are that ATI could be faster than Nvidia, or it could be the other way round. ATI are likely to be cheaper than Nvidia, but we don't know for sure. Anything else remains pure speculation, and despite the number of new leaks of info coming out now, it is still impossible to determine what is genuine and what is speculation / fiction.

Interesting stuff, but other than chatting and chewing the fat to pass the time of day, utterly worthless.
June 6, 2008 12:53:45 PM

the reason ATI are faster than nVidia on 3dMarks but slower on games is because most of the games work with nVidia and optimize their games for them, while ati must optimise its drivers manually for every game

but 3dMarks just shows the architecture potencial, and what the best case scenario is for the card.

Lets hope ATI work on their drivers more this time and release a really stable good performing cards
June 6, 2008 1:04:58 PM

rawsteel said:
Its like laughing to Core2duo because its 2 glued dual cores to make quad but it works and it beats AMD so who cares.


lol Not quite. It would be like laughing at Core 2 Quad beating a Dual core Phenom in multithreaded benches. If Nvidia put 2 of their chips on 1 board too, it would obviously beat the ATI equivalent. Sure, your case and all your expensive components would become an unrecognisable molten puddle when you try and game, but that's just nit picking! :p 
June 6, 2008 2:09:39 PM

rawsteel said:
the reason ATI are faster than nVidia on 3dMarks but slower on games is because most of the games work with nVidia and optimize their games for them, while ati must optimise its drivers manually for every game

but 3dMarks just shows the architecture potencial, and what the best case scenario is for the card.

Lets hope ATI work on their drivers more this time and release a really stable good performing cards



That is Definitely not true, take a look at Half life 2, which was specially optimized for ATI cards. Nvidia still dominated.

And if its driver related, I think they would've fixed it by now on the 3870 X2 or the 3870 or the other series.
I don't think their bad cards, but you can't find excuses for low performance.

Even ATI admitted that they fell behind when interviewed by MaximumPC. Although it is a false statement that people are saying they are only aiming for Mid-range. They are trying to aim for High end.

I'm not as Scared for AMD's Video cards, but I am for their CPUS. They fell behind horribly, they just announced their first 45 nm CPUs later this year, while Intel has the 45 nms already completed and are already announcing a newer stronger chip.
June 6, 2008 2:35:09 PM

Although Nvidia was able to gain performance from ATI in Half life 2, however I do believe Half life 2 looks better image quality wise on ATI hardware. There have been comparisons to confirm that HL2 looks better on ATI.

In general though the gaming market is biased towards Nvidia, most games have the 'way it's meant to played' logo. I know in most cases it's just marketing rubbish, but some games do tend to favor Nvidia more so than ATI.
June 6, 2008 2:43:19 PM

RawSteel has it right.

WhatI was told by an industry insider is that Nvidia pays developers to develop games using nvidia cards and therefore the "the way it is meant to be played" tagline comes up. ATI must then tweak their drivers to play better after the fact. This gives Nvidia an automatic heads up advantage because why would bite the hand that feeds you. In my humble opinion then the synthetics are actually comparing apples to apples and oranges to oranges. There is no bias, simply the strength of the hardware itself and the raw proficiency of the drivers.

In a perfect world then we would all be flocking to ATI's door. Unfortunately the world is not. I have a 7900GT and a X1900xtx. I WILL be getting a 4870 X2 as they offer more features than just frame rate . Since I am not a run-N-gun game player. (I like RTS games, and tactical shooters) my requirements call for something a little different.

Also just to let you know, There is a HIGH development price to be paid just to eke out another 5% of performance. While you may get the performance crown and bragging rights,
1.the major market is NOT found there
2. you can not see the difference in the performance gains.

I played Crysis on my 1900xtx (med-high)and anticipate ramping things up with the 4870 x2
June 6, 2008 2:53:44 PM

Yessssss,

Video quality was one of the qualities I was talking about concerning ATI.

2.Folding is another
3.Video rendering (special effects)for film/video work
4.Speed of encoding of video files to different video formats

And yeah I run my ATI cards on Intel platforms, not AMD


Also falling behind does not negate the fact that Nvidia subsidizes game developers. With the company that owns ATI being in a financial straight jacket wouldn't they have "fallen behind" in being able to subsidize game developers also? That has not been a large part of their business model. It is sort of like buying votes. Since we are in a strong political atmosphere this year I will make that analogy.
June 6, 2008 3:08:43 PM

What's the release date on this card? Comparable date to the GT280 (within like 10 days)?
a c 87 U Graphics card
June 6, 2008 3:10:29 PM

late July or sometimes in Q3... or something like that, not for a while thats for sure
June 6, 2008 3:36:34 PM

San Pedro said:
Uh nvidia didn't dominate Half Life 2, ATI did. You were completely wrong about that. When that game came out ATI cards ruled the roost for it while nvidia was smoking ATI in Doom 3.

http://www2.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjkyLDIsLGhlbn...
With settings maxed the x800xt was tops.

http://www2.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTQ1NCw1LCxoZW...
Oh looks like ATI still does better in HL2.

Sorry.


I was talking about current gen...but thnx for the blast in the past.
June 6, 2008 3:41:19 PM

Kari said:
late July or sometimes in Q3... or something like that, not for a while thats for sure


Ahh thanks for the information. QQ though, I can't wait that long! Looks like the GT280 will make a few bucks before the ATI stuff comes out.
!