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Lapped My Q6600, Now it's dead.

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July 1, 2008 11:32:13 PM

Hi everyone,
I lapped my Q6600 the other day and when I reinstalled it my PC wouldn't post. I have an Evga 680i A1 and when I talked to tech support they said to RMA it (They always say that). I have had problems before where it wouldn't post and Evga told me everytime to RMA it but I was always able to figure it out. When this happened before it let out a long beep but I fixed it by reseating the RAM and video card.

So I want ahead and did an RMA and got the board today but I still get the same thing. It just posts a "_ _" which it has never done before.

I'm wondering if I killed the CPU when I lapped it. Maybe static from the sandpaper? I just don't know. I used water and dishsoap on the sandpaper per a nice tutorial I read on the PC Perspective Forums. Any input or personal experiences are definitely welcome. Thank you.



PC Perspective

More about : lapped q6600 dead

July 1, 2008 11:46:47 PM

wow once again! static - is it dry? maybe you bent it to hard?

i went through this a month or 2 ago!

lapping your cpu is dumb! why for a few degrees cooler?

lapping your cooler is ok if you got a lot of time!

lapping can result in static or water damge - some people wash the cpu then get water in the steal packaging.

ok once again why not to lap your cpu!
July 1, 2008 11:51:19 PM

Hmmm... I didn't use enough water to allow it to be liquidy just enough to keep it moist.

What do you mean you went through this a month ago? You killed your CPU lapping it or you went through this on the forums a month ago?
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July 2, 2008 2:53:46 AM

mr roboto said:
I used water and dishsoap on the sandpaper per a nice tutorial I read on the PC Perspective Forums. Any input or personal experiences are definitely welcome. Thank you.



PC Perspective



After reading that tutorial I would agree with dragonsprayer and recommend that nobody try to do this. Not only is there a risk of ruining the processor as you found out, but the methods described by that tutorial could quite possibly make things worse instead of better. First off, what they are describing is NOT lapping. Lapping is where two parts that will be seated against each other are moved against one another with an abrasive slurry sandwiched between. For example, when you lap a valve in an engine you apply lapping compound to the valve seat and then press the valve head against the seat and swirl it in order to conform the shape of the valve head to the seat.

Taping a piece of sandpaper to a glass plate and using it to hone a surface will NOT give you a flat surface.

What would be the proper was to flatten either the processor heat spreader or the mounting face of the heat sink would be to scrape them. Scraping involves applying a marking compound to the surfaces to be flattened and then rubbing them against a reference surface (preferably a precision granite surface plate). After rubbing, the high spots will be identified as the areas where the marking compound wore off. These high spots will the be scraped off with a carbide cutter (usually a few ten-thousandths of an inch at a time). The process is repeated until the desired level of flatness is achieved. As you can probably tell, this is a very time consuming and labor intensive process, but it is the ONLY way to achieve a true flat surface.

July 2, 2008 3:06:54 AM

I agree with the above post, lapping the cpu isn't worth the extra degrees off. I would say let it all dry out for the night and then test the system again.
July 2, 2008 3:16:02 AM

Ok, first off I didn't dunk the CPU in water or even apply enough soapy water to the paper for it to be able to pool or drip in any crevices. Most likely it was lack of moist sandpaper and was static that killed it.

Just_An_Engineer thanks for the answer. It's definitely been a valuable lesson learned.
July 2, 2008 3:27:58 AM

I think lapping goes beyond just getting a few degrees cooler. I have a E3110 @ 4.23 GHz, it never goes above 60 C, even with orthos. I lapped the True and yet I still wasn't happy. Why not? Not sure why, building a computer just doesn't take long enough, sooooo I lapped my CPU, I got nothing out of it. I had fun, I made it shiny, it still works, so, with my experience it had nothing to do with getting a lower temp. I just wanted to do something to my computer. If any of that made sense......
July 2, 2008 3:52:08 AM

espslyxerx2 said:
I think lapping goes beyond just getting a few degrees cooler. I have a E3110 @ 4.23 GHz, it never goes above 60 C, even with orthos. I lapped the True and yet I still wasn't happy. Why not? Not sure why, building a computer just doesn't take long enough, sooooo I lapped my CPU, I got nothing out of it. I had fun, I made it shiny, it still works, so, with my experience it had nothing to do with getting a lower temp. I just wanted to do something to my computer. If any of that made sense......


Ummm... nope.

You made it shiny.. hehe. So, do ya pop the HS off to look at it now and then?

All I know is, I'd be pissed after spending so much time getting a flat surface just to find scratches back on it.

That is what thermal grease/compound/TIM is for, to take up those spaces. In my experience, I really haven't see any CPU's of mine that were running way too hot. If it did, I'd send it back.

But then, there are people that swear they get 6-10 degrees cooler. And I usually get the about same temps they do when my bedroom is 68-70F.
July 2, 2008 3:54:19 AM

Whats with all the lapping haters pm this thread!? I like how everyone comes to bitch and say its not worth it but no one tries to help the poor guy!

@Mr Roboto, first off, you need to learn what the beep codes you are getting mean. Check the mobo manual or their website to find out what is wrong. While it is quite possible the CPU is dead, there is also a possibility something else was overlooked. CPU fan get plugged back in? Are you getting video? Any RAM problems before lapping?

@Everyone hating on lapping. People make their own choices about what they decided to do with the hardware they purchase. Don't put out blanket statements about lapping and how "no one should try it". I did it on a whim after seeing my temps rise after overclocking my Q6600 81 degrees! I don't regret it, but I did my research and took my time to lap my Arctic Freezer 7 Pro and my Q6600. Don't discourage people who might wanna try something and gain some knowledge on something new because you don't think dropping a few degrees is worth it. For some of us there is. /rant

@Mr Roboto again. Since it's not posting. Clean off the CPU with alcohol wipes and post some pics of the top and bottom of the CPU. Maybe we can notice a bent pin or an obvious flaw on the IHS. As always with a POST problem, strip your PC down to the mare essentials to boot: Motherboard, CPU, 1 stick of RAM, power supply,video card and a hard drive. See if you get the same beep code. If you do, remove the RAM and see if you get the same results. If you get a different beep code for either of the steps, try different combinations and you might find a configuration that works. Is it possible you just happened to get a DOA RMA board? Absolutely. Likely? Probably not, but it doesn't hurt to try! Once again, find a manual on the beep codes and give us some pics to look at.
July 2, 2008 4:01:35 AM

A Q6600 CPU has no pins...
July 2, 2008 4:04:36 AM

So you are all "pro lapping" but according to your sig you are only getting 3.4ghz on your q6600 with not just your cpu lapped, but your cpu cooler lapped as well with NINE case fans.

While i'm sure your default response will be "WELL MY CPU JUST ISNT A GOOD OVERCLOCKER!" I think you should realize that the 1-2 degrees you likely won't even get from lapping a CPU is not worth 1: voiding your warranty and 2: damaging the cpu from excessive pressure.

These are not steel and stones; these are fragile pieces of hardware that you encourage people to plow with sandpaper.
July 2, 2008 4:24:54 AM

Ironically I get decent temps with the same cpu and cpu cooler combo without lapping :) .
July 2, 2008 4:31:41 AM

The only kind of Proc. I would bother lapping is a cheap-o one that has great OC potential ( E2160 ) for example. Why ? Well, because if I ruin it, it only was a waste of 70$ Lap my E8400 ? Ha, yea right.
July 2, 2008 4:33:28 AM

Agreed with Steven Bancroft, Mr Roboto was asking for help on finding out what went wrong with his computer. not to start a debate on whether or not lapping a cpu is worth the risk.

my opinion on what to try is, remove the cpu and check the back and make sure you didnt get any metal shavings down on the cpu contacts.

for the people who have nothing good to say about lapping a cpu, i have lapped an old P4 socked 478, and a C2D e6300. both cpus are still running fine and very cool, the p4 only dropped 2-3C but the C2D dropped 6-7C.

i have NOT tried lapping my q6700 because when i bought it, it was very expensive(at least IMO) so it was not worth the risk to me.
July 2, 2008 4:39:43 AM

Thanks Steven but I've tried everything including stripping the system down to bare minimum but still nothing. I know what most of the post codes mean from the Evga website and my 680i manual but certain ones like _ _ are often quite vague. It often points to 3-4 things that could be malfunctioning. I'm going to pick up a E8400 tomorrow. I have another system I can use it in if it turns out not to be the problem, or Newegg has a one week return on CPU's which is an option too, minus a 15% restocking fee.

What can one ascertain from pictures of a lapped CPU when all damage would be internal? Especially when everything points to death by static electricity or possibly too much pressure. Thanks for the replies though guys. An expensive lesson learned that's for sure.

I'll update this thread when I get a chance to test the E8400. Either way I'll let you know what the problem was.
July 2, 2008 4:56:19 AM

Also, make sure your cooler is seated right. If you reseated it incorrectly and it isn't contacting the cooler correctly, it will overheat and not boot.
July 2, 2008 4:57:44 AM

ovaltineplease said:
So you are all "pro lapping" but according to your sig you are only getting 3.4ghz on your q6600 with not just your cpu lapped, but your cpu cooler lapped as well with NINE case fans.

While i'm sure your default response will be "WELL MY CPU JUST ISNT A GOOD OVERCLOCKER!" I think you should realize that the 1-2 degrees you likely won't even get from lapping a CPU is not worth 1: voiding your warranty and 2: damaging the cpu from excessive pressure.

These are not steel and stones; these are fragile pieces of hardware that you encourage people to plow with sandpaper.


Well you certainly are presumptuous thinking I'm going to fly off the handle and respond in all caps about my CPU not being a good overclocker. I have gotten my Q6600 to 3.8 with OK temps, but I didint want to leave them at those temps 24/7 so I keep it at 3.4 or 3.6 depending on what I am doing.

When I did lap my CPU and AF7 I took screens of my gains, and I assure you I didint go through the trouble for 1-2 degrees.

Before Lapping Idle:


Before lapping Load:


After Lapping Idle:


After Lapping Load:


Changes in Temps:


So as you can see, I had a positive experience. While i'm sure your default response will be "WELL YOU JUST GOT LUCKY!"I think you should realize that the 1-2 degrees may not be worth it, but 20 degrees off you load is.

:kaola: 
July 2, 2008 5:02:58 AM

no my default response is going to be that your 9 case fans must be creating turbulence in your case which is why you were idling at 60 degrees before lapping it to begin with.
July 2, 2008 5:18:09 AM

During lapping, there is no need to apply alot of pressure to the object being lapped, it can be a gentle back and forth movement. If someone where to damage a cpu from lapping, I would say they did not do it properly.

I say Mr Roboto should remove his cpu and check the contacts(aswell as his socket now what the cpu has been in contact with the pins on it) for metal filings. He could also try the cpu on another motherboard to be sure.

And if all else fails he can give up and learn something from this... and possibly send me the supposedly dead cpu :p 
July 2, 2008 5:36:57 AM

Steven Bancroft said:
Well you certainly are presumptuous thinking I'm going to fly off the handle and respond in all caps about my CPU not being a good overclocker. I have gotten my Q6600 to 3.8 with OK temps, but I didint want to leave them at those temps 24/7 so I keep it at 3.4 or 3.6 depending on what I am doing.

When I did lap my CPU and AF7 I took screens of my gains, and I assure you I didint go through the trouble for 1-2 degrees.

Before Lapping Idle:
http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm232/creampuffyness/IdleBefore.jpg

Before lapping Load:
http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm232/creampuffyness/LoadBefore.jpg

After Lapping Idle:
http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm232/creampuffyness/Day3Idle.jpg

After Lapping Load:
http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm232/creampuffyness/Day3Load.jpg

Changes in Temps:
http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm232/creampuffyness/Changes.jpg

So as you can see, I had a positive experience. While i'm sure your default response will be "WELL YOU JUST GOT LUCKY!"I think you should realize that the 1-2 degrees may not be worth it, but 20 degrees off you load is.

:kaola: 


I'd say that more likely your heatsink may not have been seated properly when you installed it before lapping... and then when you lapped it, you installed it properly. There is no way you're going to get that big of a temp difference by simply smoothing out the surfaces. The thermal interface material should have been more than adequate if it was applied properly... since it is essentially the same as creating two perfectly flat surfaces. (Which you're not going to be able to do by lapping by hand anyway... unless you have the hands of a surgeon).
July 2, 2008 6:02:29 AM

espslyxerx2 said:
I think lapping goes beyond just getting a few degrees cooler. I have a E3110 @ 4.23 GHz, it never goes above 60 C, even with orthos. I lapped the True and yet I still wasn't happy. Why not? Not sure why, building a computer just doesn't take long enough, sooooo I lapped my CPU, I got nothing out of it. I had fun, I made it shiny, it still works, so, with my experience it had nothing to do with getting a lower temp. I just wanted to do something to my computer. If any of that made sense......



i have a qx9650 at 4.2ghz that runs 35-50c max - of coarses its a triple rad~ wow 60c with a dual core? actually thats not bad!

you ever see 35c orthos! that is right!

mr roboto said:
Hmmm... I didn't use enough water to allow it to be liquidy just enough to keep it moist.

What do you mean you went through this a month ago? You killed your CPU lapping it or you went through this on the forums a month ago?



it means we get this same post every 1-2 months someone kills there cpu by lapping it. its not a good idea unless you are willing to risk killing it - your warranty is void!


Annisman said:
The only kind of Proc. I would bother lapping is a cheap-o one that has great OC potential ( E2160 ) for example. Why ? Well, because if I ruin it, it only was a waste of 70$ Lap my E8400 ? Ha, yea right.


i agree lap a cheap one first!


ok know its time for me to post a photo!


prebuilt cases are available for under $1000 but i can not sell it here - you have to contact me
July 2, 2008 6:15:51 AM

I agree with a few things here:

What to do - Pop your CPU off and search for some metal shavings. Check for damage on the underside of the CPU. Look for damage on the motherboard's socket. Check that your heatsink is in fact touching the CPU - I've seen cases of people lapping both and reducing the contact of the two, because they were further away from each other.

That 20 degree success story - I doubt that the lapping was the change in temp. That's far too drastic. Even replacing the CPU cooler won't yield that kind of delta all of the time.

To the lapping convo in general - It's really up to the user to lap. I don't think it's a good idea. A good cooler should be able to do the job. If you have 80C temps, then you've got to think big, not small. Get a new cooler...obviously that one isn't working out for you. That, or your case is poorly ventilated, or your ambient temp is far too high. Getting a stronger cooler will probably get you a better delta temp than lapping the processor and hsf. Yes, you have to spend money doing it...but it's much, much safer.
July 2, 2008 6:25:51 AM

frozenlead said:
I agree with a few things here:

What to do - Pop your CPU off and search for some metal shavings. Check for damage on the underside of the CPU. Look for damage on the motherboard's socket. Check that your heatsink is in fact touching the CPU - I've seen cases of people lapping both and reducing the contact of the two, because they were further away from each other.

That 20 degree success story - I doubt that the lapping was the change in temp. That's far too drastic. Even replacing the CPU cooler won't yield that kind of delta all of the time.

To the lapping convo in general - It's really up to the user to lap. I don't think it's a good idea. A good cooler should be able to do the job. If you have 80C temps, then you've got to think big, not small. Get a new cooler...obviously that one isn't working out for you. That, or your case is poorly ventilated, or your ambient temp is far too high. Getting a stronger cooler will probably get you a better delta temp than lapping the processor and hsf. Yes, you have to spend money doing it...but it's much, much safer.



no! only as a last resort!

first warm it up and get any water out! put it some where warm with good air flow and low humidity - like on top of a tv or in a computer on top of a hot gpu

picture time - joint warpedsystems algid systems - email me where to get cases:



July 2, 2008 6:34:20 AM

Welll.....Sorry about your unfortunate experience.

I lapped my Q6600 with no problems as well as my heat sink. I think this is a hobby and doing it for the sheer pleasure is acceptable. There are gains to be had by lapping and those gains may not be experienced across the board. The reason a person SHOULD lap a cpu is if it is concave(edges are higher than the center), and many are. Some CPU's are convex(center higher than the edges) On a convex CPU the pressure of the heatsink will usually create a flat surface. On a concave CPU ther will be a 'pool' of thermal grease in the middle of the cpu. If this is fine with you then great, but the flatter each surface is the better the transfer of heat from the CPU to the heatsink. Those guys that do extreme cooling go further than that but that is NOT my hobby. I am getting 3.6Ghz OC without even a voltage increase. What could I have gotten with out the lap I don't know because I lapped it immediately as a hobby experience. I did do the glass surface thing AND I sealed off the edges with tape. I also used the felt pen procedure to be sure I got it as flat as possible with the manual procedure.

These are delicate electrical components but the casings are mechanical hardware. Since it is a "close-to-last" generation CPU for this motherboard ASUS Maximus Formula; I won't be selling it(the cpu) for another faster one. A new generation socket is coming. SO why not splurge and get all I can out of it. It has been running fine since Jan 08.
July 2, 2008 7:29:20 AM

I disagree with those who say that you should never lap your processor. I did it partly for fun, and partly because my temps were high due to a concave heat spreader. I lowered my temps by about 8C and I learned some things in the process. That said however i went into it knowing that i may need to buy a new processor.

My processor was extremely resilient. I used a good amount of water and no tape. I even accidentally dropped it into a bowl of rubbing alcohol over 2 inches deep but it still works like a champ.
July 2, 2008 7:37:24 AM

Perhaps your new board needs a bios update? Do you have an old socket 775 processor you could use to update the bios, or just to see if it boots?
July 2, 2008 11:42:52 AM

My rant:



My E4400, after apprx 6months. Has a nice scratch when I was upgrading my system to Q6600.



The bottom of my Tuniq. The scratch corresponds to the IHS on my E4400.

Now... I know, I'd be very pissed in getting that flat and shiny (lapping both components), just to ruin it later on. And after years of observing temps on my system, the 2-4C just isn't worth my time.

And if your ambient temps are high (80F+) lapping or the best TIM, HS, isn't going to make that much or any difference from my experience.
July 2, 2008 1:59:38 PM

frozenlead said:
That 20 degree success story - I doubt that the lapping was the change in temp. That's far too drastic. Even replacing the CPU cooler won't yield that kind of delta all of the time.
.

Frozenlead, you are correct. When I first started seeing my temps rise I didn't have the HSF mounted properly. I probably wouldn't have investigated the problem had I not decided to to lap. While it was a mistake, the whole experience gave me new insight to how CPUs and HSFs are shaped. I did it for the enjoyment to do something I had never done before. Maybe not everyone will get a drastic drop, but if you accept the risk of what could go wrong, why not try it. Although a good point has been made about practicing on a cheapo proc.
July 2, 2008 6:52:25 PM

Lapping is a lot like boaring out an engine. can have disastrous consequences, but can yield an extra push in results - in the extreme overclockers case, 1% better is a lot. However, even among enthusiasts, lapping is not generally done. too much risk, too small yield.

OP- check that board and CPU for damage. I highly doubt that pressure killed the cpu, if in fact it is dead. I'll give more money on shorting or scratches than pressure.
July 3, 2008 4:54:51 AM

Lapping is a must for nitrogen-based overclocking systems, for air.... not so much, for liquid... depends. Point is it is something some one would do for the ENJOYMENT of doing it, if you expect gains then good luck. Even experimenting on a cheapo is not a good idea really, I experimented on my 7600 GT with a new cooler and all when I got my 8800 GT, and now that my 8800 GT is dead I am using my 7600 GT again, which I am lucky that it still works. Sadly I do not have the money to buy a new card for awhile, but if you were to do the same with a CPU and do something like lapping, then make sure you will not have any actual NEED for the CPU.
July 3, 2008 5:24:58 AM

sorry about your 8800...


but just a question..

is The_blood_raven in lue of the diablo II character??
!