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TheINQ: GT200 kicking ass? Not this time, Nvidia.

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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June 12, 2008 11:47:47 AM

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/06/12/...

Quote:
The short story: not enough, not nearly enough. It is barely faster than a GX2, yields are crap, and there will only be a syphilitic trickle of parts on launch, slowing to next to nothing after that.

If you are thinking that NV will put out a dual card, don't hold your breath, they are power limited, die size limited, cost limited and production limited.

They can't make it until the shrink in late fall, and even then it is questionable. Is the card quick? Yeah, it is decent. Is it good enough? Nope, not even close. This card is a dinosaur, too hot, too late. µ


That's it, folks. To believe? You decide: although *heavily biased* about the Green Goblin Team, they have been right lately. "4870 X2" all the way! :kaola: 
a b U Graphics card
June 12, 2008 12:02:25 PM

<swims up... sniffs bait.... swims away>
June 12, 2008 12:09:03 PM

Scotteq said:
<swims up... sniffs bait.... swims away>


<dammit>*cough*... red pwnage... *cough*</dammit>
June 12, 2008 12:14:14 PM

I'll wait for unbiased reports to make my own opinion here...

I really doubt everything said in that article is true.
a c 176 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
June 12, 2008 12:15:39 PM

The only thing I'll believe is the "no dual card". The card(s) are huge, there is no getting around that. Ape and others have talked about yields already, so I think it will be a LONG time before we see any dual GPU cards. (not to mention the power and heat issues...)

For me, there aren't enough performance numbers there to judge anything. Keep waiting for the launch and look at real numbers. I'm more interested in the parts availability myself. If the card is so huge, and the yields are so bad, can Nvidia do anything about this other then scrap it and move on to the next big thing?
June 12, 2008 12:16:04 PM

Or we could just wait like one more week and get the real reviews??? No offense but wasn't it rumored way back when that the 2900XT was going to "pwn" the old 8800GTX and Ultra?????
June 12, 2008 12:42:54 PM

warezme said:
Or we could just wait like one more week and get the real reviews??? No offense but wasn't it rumored way back when that the 2900XT was going to "pwn" the old 8800GTX and Ultra?????


Yeah, it's just speculation, but that's the point. Since TheINQ hasn't been invited to Nvidia's events lately they have become quite biased about them, however, I think they have improved a lot their news regarding both Nvidia/DAMMIT. They also were some of the first who talked about the cards' final specs and also about Larrabee.

I usually don't get into the hype, however, this time I guess it would be better for all of us if Nvidia got some spanking. They have been sitting on their arses lately, shouting about Intel and the world while selling gimmick cards with poor driver support. Not to mention the DX 10.1 fiasco.
June 12, 2008 12:56:32 PM

My oh My. What a terrible author.

I would fire him on the spot.
Does not matter if his numbers are correct or wrong.

As a reporter you are supposed to be unbiased, which with their name calling they clearly are not.

As a result, I don't beleive the numbers due to their apparent extreme disdain for NVIDIA.

Second, Even if they are correct and good numbers, they lose credibility due to the authors attitude.

If he had just feigned impartiality, it would have been much better.

Clearly a site with little integrity or good editorial control.

June 12, 2008 12:58:55 PM

You know this is a BIT OT but I read theinquirer.net for articles written like this, but was realy dissapointed to hear that Charlie Demerjian was going to start writing for Tom's. This guy is the BIGGEST ATI FAN BOY EVER! I mean 5 page rants about Nvida from Charlie are not rare...
http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/10/25/...

*Disclaimer*Now Im not an Nvidia fanBOI*Disclaimer*

... I personally would love ATI to have the performance crown SO I can DUMP this terrible Nforce boards (cause I run Sli and would Run Xfire) with TRASH SATA controllers that peak out at 120ish MB/s on HDD transfers (4xraptors in raid0)
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/x48-790i-chipset,19...
This has been the case for EVERY Nforce board.
I just want a non bais objectional article when I come to Tom's Unfortunatly I think Toms has taken a SERIOUS decline since the sale and website revamp. I use to allmost read every article that was featured in the Main flash slide show. Now I maybe read one per week.

I personally think there is alot of BS flying around the web about this launch. I mean this for both sides ATI and Nvidia. Shader numbers changing, numerous photo-chopped GPU-Z screenies... Now this isnt abnormal for a launch but It just seems like alot of the media is spinning it any which way they can to go into a fanBOI rant *Chime in*Charlie Demerjian*Chime in*

June 12, 2008 1:03:04 PM

warezme said:
Or we could just wait like one more week and get the real reviews??? No offense but wasn't it rumored way back when that the 2900XT was going to "pwn" the old 8800GTX and Ultra?????


But the HD2900 does beat the 8800GTX and Ultra... in 3D mark that is.

Also I remember how the Inq warned us about how bad the 8 series were when compared with the HD2/3 series, how nice of them to point us in the right direction again.
June 12, 2008 1:07:28 PM

LOL I'd love to see someone put together a little timeline track-record for The Inq which just listed when they made estimates and how wrong they were.

I'm basically a nVidia fanboy...at least right now, since they are king...but yea, this review seems extremely biased!
June 12, 2008 1:13:02 PM

zenmaster said:
My oh My. What a terrible author.

I would fire him on the spot.
Does not matter if his numbers are correct or wrong.

As a reporter you are supposed to be unbiased, which with their name calling they clearly are not.

As a result, I don't beleive the numbers due to their apparent extreme disdain for NVIDIA.

Second, Even if they are correct and good numbers, they lose credibility due to the authors attitude.

If he had just feigned impartiality, it would have been much better.

Clearly a site with little integrity or good editorial control.


You must either be British or do some research about British tabloids before you flame TheINQ: they're supposed to be biased. That's the fun and humour of the website - even if it hurts your heart. You have thousands of "standard news sites" around the web and if these guys have something to say they just say it right away.
a b U Graphics card
June 12, 2008 1:19:45 PM

Look at all this in a positive way guys. These writers could have gone religious and claimed the world would have ended yesterday, like that guy in Texas. At least people that believe most of this tripe wont lose their homes, wives and sometimes their lives
June 12, 2008 1:27:43 PM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
Look at all this in a positive way guys. These writers could have gone religious and claimed the world would have ended yesterday, like that guy in Texas. At least people that believe most of this tripe wont lose their homes, wives and sometimes their lives


Hey, Jaydee! What's up, man? :)  Here's some new drivers for you:

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/06/12/...

Some encoding application support is coming.
a b U Graphics card
June 12, 2008 1:33:51 PM

wat the hell now there delaying the gtx 260 i have to wait 10 extra days i have been waiting for wks for this card. grr i hope ati destroys them!

June 12, 2008 1:33:58 PM

Yea dude. I mean, EVERYBODY read the INQ just for the fun of it!! How about that article 4-5 years ago predicting Intel runninf it's pentium 4 line at speeds of 10-12 GHz?? Hahaha! Still laughing from that article...
a b U Graphics card
June 12, 2008 1:46:22 PM

Ive read it, and ty. Im going folding again!!!!!
a b U Graphics card
June 12, 2008 1:49:12 PM

blashyrkh said:
Yea dude. I mean, EVERYBODY read the INQ just for the fun of it!! How about that article 4-5 years ago predicting Intel runninf it's pentium 4 line at speeds of 10-12 GHz?? Hahaha! Still laughing from that article...

Sadly, this is what Intel claimed too, and hoped. At the time, they had no knowledge where the wall would be
a b U Graphics card
June 12, 2008 1:51:51 PM

is the article true or false? doesnt nvidia have a roadmap. i dislike rumors.
a b U Graphics card
June 12, 2008 2:22:03 PM

Yeah, the P4 was supposed to scale to 10+ GHz. It was in all of Intel's roadmap presentations when the P4 launched. I read it everywhere.
June 12, 2008 2:32:07 PM

dattimr said:
You must either be British or do some research about British tabloids before you flame TheINQ: they're supposed to be biased. That's the fun and humour of the website - even if it hurts your heart. You have thousands of "standard news sites" around the web and if these guys have something to say they just say it right away.



no offence your an ass, the UK tabloids are some of the least biased in the world.

ever watched an American news channel? not only is everything talked about like a football match they never reported the friendly fire incidents against the UK troops(that your ass of an army caused, cannon fodder and nukes), they only ever report the good bits(or made up stuff).

/rant

on topic.

the Inquirer looks like its just made a complete ass of itself, and im with many here that i will wait until other reputable sites benchmark and test the cards.
June 12, 2008 2:38:39 PM

just because british tabloids are less biased, doesn't mean they are exactly paragons of truth.... assholes will specifically lie if they calculate they'll make more money from it than the legal fees will be worth.
as ever the message is wait for real benchmarks..... *yawn*
June 12, 2008 2:39:43 PM

Flakes said:
no offence your an ass, the UK tabloids are some of the least biased in the world.


:lol:  :lol:  :lol: 

If he is an ass, you are an idiot.


You really do not see how biased rags like the Sun and Daily Heil are?

And by feck the Daily Heil is a tabloid, full of putrid racist, xenophobic sh!t. Don't even dare try to quantify it as a broadsheet and therefore outside of UK tabloids.



Quote:
ever watched an American news channel?


Yeah, faux news are extremely biased.

Bill O'Reilly should be shot for hate crimes against humanity. The man is a stupid aswhole, worst of all, he is a stupid aswhole in a position of great influence.
June 12, 2008 2:46:30 PM

at least bush is just stupid, he doesn't seem to be an ******* :p 
June 12, 2008 2:52:13 PM

i did say least biased not "completely unbiased" :rollseyes:
June 12, 2008 2:53:16 PM

Flakes, think before you speak, otherwise it is... unflattering. He was pointing out the popular Journalistic style in Europe and Britain where the reporters are very biased and are not meant to be taken seriously, but more for entertainment. This was reflected onto the INQ as a joke and a slight insult to the INQ. Making ignorant, hateful comments about an entire country, because you could not comprehend the meaning of dattimr's statement makes you sir, and I mean no offence, an ass.

/end rant

This is just how the INQ is, they use a little bit of truth in their articles so that they can run off with it and leave reason waaaaaay behind. Though I hope some of this is true, we need a status quo change in the Graphics department, this 8800 GS vs 9600 GSO and 8800 GTX vs 9800 GTX stuff is ridiculous.
June 12, 2008 3:04:42 PM

Personally I love the Inquirer, even though about 80% of it is BS. Its always good for a read while Im at work. Gives me something to laugh at.

That being said, their always is a grain of truth in what they say.
June 12, 2008 3:05:12 PM

I think we can all agree that we would like to see the NEXT 8800GTX (I mean this as the NEXT BIG JUMP in GFXs cards) come out either it be from ATI or Nvidia.... more would like it to be ATI just to keep the competition going.... I just want some P R O G R E S S :ange: 
June 12, 2008 3:18:21 PM

Quote:
no offence your an ass, the UK tabloids are some of the least biased in the world.

ever watched an American news channel? not only is everything talked about like a football match they never reported the friendly fire incidents against the UK troops(that your ass of an army caused, cannon fodder and nukes), they only ever report the good bits(or made up stuff).

/rant



Actually, I'm Brazilian and our troops don't cause many incidents out there. Besides, Charlie Demerjian *IS* biased regarding Nvidia - that's exactly why I and many others read TheINQ. If you want unbiased news, go to www.theregister.co.uk. TheINQ has a completely different approach than those of other news sites and shouldn't be flamed by doing so. Just read their slogans: "The INQUIRER: misinforming people for years"; "Buy the rumour, sell the news". It's supposed to be *FUN*.
June 12, 2008 3:47:31 PM

Ah, yes, I've heard about some stuff from The Inquirer and this Charlie dude sounds like some maniac, if you guys have read most of his articles, apparently from what I heard he is very anti-NVIDIA.

That article does sound biased and I hope he will eat his own words soon. But yet again, we haven't really seen the 280 GTX in action yet so eh.
June 12, 2008 3:57:11 PM

zenmaster said:
Second, Even if they are correct and good numbers, they lose credibility due to the authors attitude.

If he had just feigned impartiality, it would have been much better.

Clearly a site with little integrity or good editorial control.


I see a problem in this statement. If the Inq is giving correct and good numbers, I don't care what their attitude is. Truth is truth, no matter who says it. Does truth change if its given by someone who isn't biased? As far as integrity goes, any supposed bias was clearly and forthrightly stated in the opening line of the article. They felt Nvidia had treated them badly, so they weren't going to do Nvidia any favors. I don't think that's a biased statement, but an informative one. It says that they are under no constraints to fudge any numbers in order to make Nvidia look good. A biased statement would read something like, "Nvidia gave us an exclusive look at their card and here are their really great numbers compared to their competition." That would be a biased statement with a corresponding lack of integrity.

As for the disparaging comments about Nvidia and the new cards, again, are they true or not? We will find out in the next few weeks. If true, the statements may have been put in a more diplomatic fashion, but that still doesn't change the essence of the statement. If false, then what can be said, but that the Inq screwed up again, as it commonly does.
June 12, 2008 4:55:52 PM

invisik said:
wat the hell now there delaying the gtx 260 i have to wait 10 extra days i have been waiting for wks for this card. grr i hope ati destroys them!


What's your source for this information? Can you toss up a link? Thanks!
June 12, 2008 4:56:05 PM

Also, there's the DAMMIT + Intel/Havok thing: http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/06/12/...

Quote:
AMD AND INTEL are teaming up to backhand Nvidia in the physics arena. They are presenting a unified front to shut out NV for the first time.

The end result is a seemingly small announcement with huge implications. It is nothing less than a boot to the teeth for Nvidia, and no one is going to cry for them. Watch closely, this will happen again and again, and the foundation will get chipped away from NV's support base each time. µ


This summer is certainly going to be as bloody as hell.
June 12, 2008 4:57:47 PM

Waspy said:
What's your source for this information? Can you toss up a link? Thanks!


Here's the link, Waspy: http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/06/12/...

Quote:
The meat of the email that went out to reviewers is that the launch date has moved from the 17th to the 16th at 6am PDT. They claim that the 280 will be available the next day, and the 260 comes later, on the 26th.
June 12, 2008 5:05:42 PM

Thats awful, my 9800 GX2 get around 30 fps at 1080p Very High...:| maybe the 280 GTX isn't the way to go:S.

I'm not too worried about the 4870 X2 thats not scheduled till fall, and I have school then haha.
a b U Graphics card
June 12, 2008 5:08:17 PM

ya thats the site thanks dattimir.
but im not to sure if it is true or not.
June 12, 2008 5:15:33 PM

I find this difficult to believe, but if it is true perhaps I will end up just getting a 9800GX2, or a pair if they drop in price. But, I'll reserve judgment until I hear from a more reliable source (and by that I mean a source that is reliable at all, I place little faith in those guys)
June 12, 2008 5:19:43 PM

It is all a bunch of BS so people will visit that internet tabloid site and they get more advertising revenues.
June 12, 2008 5:30:19 PM

darktravesty said:
I find this difficult to believe, but if it is true perhaps I will end up just getting a 9800GX2, or a pair if they drop in price. But, I'll reserve judgment until I hear from a more reliable source (and by that I mean a source that is reliable at all, I place little faith in those guys)


Eww, 9800GX2...dude don't do it. I'm a big fan of..."If you want SLI, do it yourself!" Dual GPU/dual PCB cards basically suck!
June 12, 2008 5:33:23 PM

SirCrono said:
But the HD2900 does beat the 8800GTX and Ultra... in 3D mark that is.


LOL, reminds me of ye olde day when Macs with the powerPC where advertised as the worlds fastest retail supercomputers or some such nonsense because they where faster than any other PC in like 2 or 3 Photoshop filters...
June 12, 2008 5:34:29 PM

LOL quad sli is a little off, but only because the drivers aren't mature. There are benchmarks that show the cards pull their own weight otherwise I wouldn't have bought it.
June 12, 2008 5:41:41 PM

Waspy said:
Eww, 9800GX2...dude don't do it. I'm a big fan of..."If you want SLI, do it yourself!" Dual GPU/dual PCB cards basically suck!

Well, of the new cards that are coming out, or current "next-gen" ones, what would be best to SLI or crossfire if the GTX280 falls through? (I am holding on to hope that it will pull through, however)
June 12, 2008 5:56:52 PM

sailer said:
I see a problem in this statement. If the Inq is giving correct and good numbers, I don't care what their attitude is. Truth is truth, no matter who says it. Does truth change if its given by someone who isn't biased? As far as integrity goes, any supposed bias was clearly and forthrightly stated in the opening line of the article. They felt Nvidia had treated them badly, so they weren't going to do Nvidia any favors. I don't think that's a biased statement, but an informative one. It says that they are under no constraints to fudge any numbers in order to make Nvidia look good. A biased statement would read something like, "Nvidia gave us an exclusive look at their card and here are their really great numbers compared to their competition." That would be a biased statement with a corresponding lack of integrity.

As for the disparaging comments about Nvidia and the new cards, again, are they true or not? We will find out in the next few weeks. If true, the statements may have been put in a more diplomatic fashion, but that still doesn't change the essence of the statement. If false, then what can be said, but that the Inq screwed up again, as it commonly does.


The Truth is the Truth, but if you want to inform and educate, you need to work on your reputation and respect. It does not matter how correct you are, if you are not a reliable source your information will be discounted.

My best friend is a Nuclear Physist who once was trying to explain to me how full of it the Nobel Peace Price winner in Physics "Stephen Hawking" was.

I told him, There is simply no point in trying to convince me. It does not matter how correct you may or may not be. I will trust the opinion of "Stephen Hawking" over you.

The same with the Inquirer.
It does not matter how true their numbers and facts may be.
What they report will be dismissed and not dissuade me.

If the Goal of the Inquirer is to inform and educate, they will have failed by necessity.
If their Goal is to convince people to go ATI because they dislike NVIDIA, they have failed.

If you wish to perfrom Biased reporting, it is best to do it so as appear to be unbiased.
If you wish to perform unbiased reporting, well we know that is a failure.

If he was a student writer, I would have graded him an "F" even if he was taking a High School journalism class. I could not even imagine a college freshmen writing such a poor story.
June 12, 2008 6:08:28 PM

zenmaster said:
As a reporter you are supposed to be unbiased, which with their name calling they clearly are not. ... their apparent extreme disdain for NVIDIA.

Quote:
syphilitic trickle of parts on launch
With comments like this, how can you say that? Are you saying that their criticism is a tad vitriolic? :lol: 
June 12, 2008 6:12:49 PM

zenmaster said:
The Truth is the Truth, but if you want to inform and educate, you need to work on your reputation and respect. It does not matter how correct you are, if you are not a reliable source your information will be discounted.

My best friend is a Nuclear Physist who once was trying to explain to me how full of it the Nobel Peace Price winner in Physics "Stephen Hawking" was.

I told him, There is simply no point in trying to convince me. It does not matter how correct you may or may not be. I will trust the opinion of "Stephen Hawking" over you.

The same with the Inquirer.
It does not matter how true their numbers and facts may be.
What they report will be dismissed and not dissuade me.

If the Goal of the Inquirer is to inform and educate, they will have failed by necessity.
If their Goal is to convince people to go ATI because they dislike NVIDIA, they have failed.

If you wish to perfrom Biased reporting, it is best to do it so as appear to be unbiased.
If you wish to perform unbiased reporting, well we know that is a failure.

If he was a student writer, I would have graded him an "F" even if he was taking a High School journalism class. I could not even imagine a college freshmen writing such a poor story.


What if its goal is just to "entertain while informing"? Of course you are not meant to like it, however, TheINQ has a specific target: people who want to laugh with biased information. It's definitely not the site to read if you want the "pure fact" - and it was never meant to be. This is the whole point.
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
June 12, 2008 6:21:49 PM

this is a comment on the site

Track Record of Being Wrong
I believe you said the R600 would smoke the G80, it didn't. It turned out to be an underpowered flop that consumed way too much power.

I believe that you also said that the RV670 would end up faster than it's G92 competitor. The G92 you said would be too hot and power hungry as well.

So what the chance that you're going to be right on this one? My guess is that the GTX280 will end up faster than the HD 4870X2 in most games, although I could see it winning in 3DMark, which means nothing to me.


that sums it up for me
June 12, 2008 6:29:29 PM

This whole thread sounds like arguing if Aliens really exist because a major tabloid said so.For fewk sakes most of us know the INQ is full of BS , why split hairs over a obviously bogus article.......I am not a a Fanboy , i will buy the current leader in hardware specs , but honestly i hope ATI/AMD get there sh!t together and force Nvidia off there cellulite laurels and put out decent cards.


But as regards to this bogus article , until i see real benchies , i will assume nothing.
June 12, 2008 6:40:10 PM

Its early drivers but tbh I dont expect a huge amount of performance from one of these cards. Not all the specs have doubled and the shader clock has reduced dramatically. Faster then a GX2 yeh it should be... but that is still 2x G92. Of coarse though you can SLI these things whereas 2x GX2 gets you nowhere :D 


Tbh I think ATI are going to steal this one this time though. Not top performance yet of coarse but they do have the dual card option which with 3870x2 has worked pretty damn well.

And price on their side is everything really.
June 12, 2008 6:46:16 PM

zenmaster said:
The Truth is the Truth, but if you want to inform and educate, you need to work on your reputation and respect. It does not matter how correct you are, if you are not a reliable source your information will be discounted.

My best friend is a Nuclear Physist who once was trying to explain to me how full of it the Nobel Peace Price winner in Physics "Stephen Hawking" was.

I told him, There is simply no point in trying to convince me. It does not matter how correct you may or may not be. I will trust the opinion of "Stephen Hawking" over you.

The same with the Inquirer.
It does not matter how true their numbers and facts may be.
What they report will be dismissed and not dissuade me.


I suppose at this point I should point out that in the fact that their track record is such that whatever they print, biased or not, I don't trust what they have to say. Their articles are more like a roll of the dice then anything to be taken as reliable. Yes, they do print the truth a fair amount of the time, but they also print enough fiction, or fantasy that is real only in the eyes of their writers, that I take what they print with a grain of salt, and then I throw the salt away. Did they print the truth this time? For myself, I won't know until what I think are reliable test sites do reviews and put out the full benches for all to see. At that time, and no sooner, will I say something as to whether the Inq was right this time, or they screwed it up again.

As for the bias, everyone has bias to some degree. How it shows up is a matter of how well its hidden, or sometimes, how its perceived. Even if no bias is intended, the claim of bias is easily tossed about. Through the years I've seen many people say that Tom's is biased toward Intel, while others claim its biased against AMD. So sometimes the claim of bias is simply in the eye of the beholder.
!