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Anonymous
August 14, 2005 5:04:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starsiege.tribes (More info?)

Hey,

Here to let you know that Annie passed away at around 7:45 in the
morning. We all felt it coming yesterday morning, so we, my family and
I, did our best to give her a relaxing time. She could no longer walk,
nor stand up for that matter. She would attempt to, but would just fall
to the ground and start crying.

So we carried her around... her first visit was hanging out with my
sisters in the office in a small box in a drawer. She then got to go
outside, and we put her in her favorite soft, comfy bush. (I snapped a
picture of it here: http://coryhansen.com/annieinbush.jpg Note: it was
slightly altered in Photoshop) After she enjoyed some fresh air she had
some lap time with my Mom. At this time I had to get out to the park and
play some basketball.. to get my mind off of things.

I came home to find my parents had went to bed, and she was on the
family room floor. I grabbed a pillow and a blanket and made a bed right
next to her. Her in my arms helped me get to sleep despite the loud
thunderstorm that was blaring outside my house, she has helped me get to
sleep for about six years now.

It was a tough night for her, but also for me. I woke up to her crying
as she would try to position her legs to get up. At one point she would
just lay on her side, but continue meow in a very unnerving way. This
was when I realized she had lost her sight. She has been deaf for the
past three or so years, so I realized how much a frightening situation
this was for her and nearly lost it as I saw her. The best I could do
was pet her and let her know I was near.

I don't want to continue to relive this, so I'll just mention that I
woke up at around 8:00 with my Dad next to me ready to hug me. There she
was, peaceful as can be. I was devastated, but also relieved that she no
longer had to bare living in that old body of hers. We are waiting until
Monday to cremate her.

Annie
1988-2005
--
Cory "Shinnokxz" Hansen - http://www.coryhansen.com
Life is journey, not a destination. So stop running.

More about : interested

Anonymous
August 15, 2005 3:41:19 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starsiege.tribes (More info?)

"Shinnokxz" <shinnokxz@charter.net> wrote in message
news:52CLe.46854$vb3.29603@fe07.lga...
> Hey,
>
> Here to let you know that Annie passed away at around 7:45 in the morning.
> We all felt it coming yesterday morning, so we, my family and I, did our
> best to give her a relaxing time. She could no longer walk, nor stand up
> for that matter. She would attempt to, but would just fall to the ground
> and start crying.
>
> So we carried her around... her first visit was hanging out with my
> sisters in the office in a small box in a drawer. She then got to go
> outside, and we put her in her favorite soft, comfy bush. (I snapped a
> picture of it here: http://coryhansen.com/annieinbush.jpg Note: it was
> slightly altered in Photoshop) After she enjoyed some fresh air she had
> some lap time with my Mom. At this time I had to get out to the park and
> play some basketball.. to get my mind off of things.
>
> I came home to find my parents had went to bed, and she was on the family
> room floor. I grabbed a pillow and a blanket and made a bed right next to
> her. Her in my arms helped me get to sleep despite the loud thunderstorm
> that was blaring outside my house, she has helped me get to sleep for
> about six years now.
>
> It was a tough night for her, but also for me. I woke up to her crying as
> she would try to position her legs to get up. At one point she would just
> lay on her side, but continue meow in a very unnerving way. This was when
> I realized she had lost her sight. She has been deaf for the past three or
> so years, so I realized how much a frightening situation this was for her
> and nearly lost it as I saw her. The best I could do was pet her and let
> her know I was near.
>
> I don't want to continue to relive this, so I'll just mention that I woke
> up at around 8:00 with my Dad next to me ready to hug me. There she was,
> peaceful as can be. I was devastated, but also relieved that she no longer
> had to bare living in that old body of hers. We are waiting until Monday
> to cremate her.
>
> Annie
> 1988-2005
> --
> Cory "Shinnokxz" Hansen - http://www.coryhansen.com
> Life is journey, not a destination. So stop running.

:-(

Verry sad when they go.....

Cub
Related resources
Anonymous
August 15, 2005 1:05:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starsiege.tribes (More info?)

Ah, bless her heart. And bless Annie's family (yours) for taking
good care of her.

Thank you Cory, for letting me know- I have a super-soft spot
in my heart for cats. When Bootzee cuddles up next to me later,
she and I will send good wishes to Annie, who I'm sure crossed
the proverbial rainbow bridge with no trouble.

http://rainbowsbridge.com/Poem.htm

--
{{{{{HUGZ!}}}}}
>^,,^< Miracle


Shinnokxz wrote:
> Hey,
>
> Here to let you know that Annie passed away at around 7:45 in the
> morning. We all felt it coming yesterday morning, so we, my family and
> I, did our best to give her a relaxing time. She could no longer walk,
> nor stand up for that matter. She would attempt to, but would just
> fall to the ground and start crying.
>
> So we carried her around... her first visit was hanging out with my
> sisters in the office in a small box in a drawer. She then got to go
> outside, and we put her in her favorite soft, comfy bush. (I snapped a
> picture of it here: http://coryhansen.com/annieinbush.jpg Note: it was
> slightly altered in Photoshop) After she enjoyed some fresh air she
> had some lap time with my Mom. At this time I had to get out to the
> park and play some basketball.. to get my mind off of things.
>
> I came home to find my parents had went to bed, and she was on the
> family room floor. I grabbed a pillow and a blanket and made a bed
> right next to her. Her in my arms helped me get to sleep despite the
> loud thunderstorm that was blaring outside my house, she has helped
> me get to sleep for about six years now.
>
> It was a tough night for her, but also for me. I woke up to her crying
> as she would try to position her legs to get up. At one point she
> would just lay on her side, but continue meow in a very unnerving
> way. This was when I realized she had lost her sight. She has been
> deaf for the past three or so years, so I realized how much a
> frightening situation this was for her and nearly lost it as I saw
> her. The best I could do was pet her and let her know I was near.
>
> I don't want to continue to relive this, so I'll just mention that I
> woke up at around 8:00 with my Dad next to me ready to hug me. There
> she was, peaceful as can be. I was devastated, but also relieved that
> she no longer had to bare living in that old body of hers. We are
> waiting until Monday to cremate her.
>
> Annie
> 1988-2005



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Anonymous
August 15, 2005 1:05:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starsiege.tribes (More info?)

"Miracle Smith" <GetLost@yourexpense.com> wrote in news:43005aee$1_3
@news6.uncensored-news.com:

> Thank you Cory, for letting me know- I have a super-soft spot
> in my heart for cats. When Bootzee cuddles up next to me later,
> she and I will send good wishes to Annie, who I'm sure crossed
> the proverbial rainbow bridge with no trouble.

Yep, Cory's account is a good one. He might want to copy it to
rec.pets.cats.anecdotes. Big support group there.

Uh oh... my little demon just went from frantic playtime to quiet, and that
always worries me, as I wonder what trouble she could be getting into....
August 15, 2005 1:05:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starsiege.tribes (More info?)

On 15 Aug 2005 09:05:50 GMT, "Miracle Smith" <GetLost@yourexpense.com>
wrote:

> Ah, bless her heart. And bless Annie's family (yours) for taking
>good care of her.
>
> Thank you Cory, for letting me know- I have a super-soft spot
>in my heart for cats. When Bootzee cuddles up next to me later,
>she and I will send good wishes to Annie, who I'm sure crossed
>the proverbial rainbow bridge with no trouble.
>
> http://rainbowsbridge.com/Poem.htm

Nice sentiment.

I believe that when an animal or human dies they simply cease. Blip.
Out go the lights. No rainbows. No tunnels of light. Their runtime, in
a way, has been terminated.

Where does your operating system go when you switch off your computer?
I know the code for it is on the hard drive and it will be replicated
again. But that runtime just ceases. The concerted energy that made
your programs run simply dissipates. And without that energy it
cannot be sustained. And so, too, the program dissipates.

Humans are simply meat-based computers. If, say, a train were to wreck
your meatware to the point where your life spark, your Qi, your
energy, your bioelectric force were no longer sustainable. Then your
consciousness... the culmination of cognitive processes, stored
experiences and resultant awareness would also dissipate.

We are binary creatures. We are either 1 or 0. There is no in between
state.

And there are only 10 types of people who can read binary. Those who
can and those who can't. :) 

But anyway, I'm sure Annie had fun while she was 1. She has no pain
now that she is 0.

I had the misfortune of seeing my cat, Chester (an affectionate snow
white Himalayan) turned into a bunch of little 0 bits by a pack of
neighborhood dogs that had gone semi-feral. Had I a rifle at the time
I would not have been the only one to lose a pet that day, to be sure.

To make sure I spelled Himalayan right I went a-checkin and found this
picture that looks almost like me cat. http://tinyurl.com/dnl6j

--
--==<S m e g h e a d>==--
Anonymous
August 15, 2005 8:01:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starsiege.tribes (More info?)

"Smeghead" <tribesfan@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:v761g1dvv8u8mg828m15f1hd4oes6la66m@4ax.com...
> On 15 Aug 2005 09:05:50 GMT, "Miracle Smith" <GetLost@yourexpense.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Ah, bless her heart. And bless Annie's family (yours) for taking
>>good care of her.
>>
>> Thank you Cory, for letting me know- I have a super-soft spot
>>in my heart for cats. When Bootzee cuddles up next to me later,
>>she and I will send good wishes to Annie, who I'm sure crossed
>>the proverbial rainbow bridge with no trouble.
>>
>> http://rainbowsbridge.com/Poem.htm
>
> Nice sentiment.
>
> I believe that when an animal or human dies they simply cease. Blip.
> Out go the lights. No rainbows. No tunnels of light. Their runtime, in
> a way, has been terminated.
>
> Where does your operating system go when you switch off your computer?
> I know the code for it is on the hard drive and it will be replicated
> again. But that runtime just ceases. The concerted energy that made
> your programs run simply dissipates. And without that energy it
> cannot be sustained. And so, too, the program dissipates.
>
> Humans are simply meat-based computers. If, say, a train were to wreck
> your meatware to the point where your life spark, your Qi, your
> energy, your bioelectric force were no longer sustainable. Then your
> consciousness... the culmination of cognitive processes, stored
> experiences and resultant awareness would also dissipate.
>
> We are binary creatures. We are either 1 or 0. There is no in between
> state.
>
> And there are only 10 types of people who can read binary. Those who
> can and those who can't. :) 
>
> But anyway, I'm sure Annie had fun while she was 1. She has no pain
> now that she is 0.
>
> I had the misfortune of seeing my cat, Chester (an affectionate snow
> white Himalayan) turned into a bunch of little 0 bits by a pack of
> neighborhood dogs that had gone semi-feral. Had I a rifle at the time
> I would not have been the only one to lose a pet that day, to be sure.
>
> To make sure I spelled Himalayan right I went a-checkin and found this
> picture that looks almost like me cat. http://tinyurl.com/dnl6j
>

It seems obvious from your cut and dry approach to life and death that you
must have never experienced any supernatural phenomenon. Such experiences
over my short lifetime have indelibly secured my belief that the energy that
drives this meat computer is an entity to itself, and will not confined by
or cease from the hard drive that is my brain upon death. Going to that
Wi-Fi in the sky? :^)

Quixote
August 15, 2005 9:39:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starsiege.tribes (More info?)

On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 16:01:34 -0500, "Quixote" <quixote@writeme.com>
wrote:

>
>"Smeghead" <tribesfan@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:v761g1dvv8u8mg828m15f1hd4oes6la66m@4ax.com...
>> On 15 Aug 2005 09:05:50 GMT, "Miracle Smith" <GetLost@yourexpense.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Ah, bless her heart. And bless Annie's family (yours) for taking
>>>good care of her.
>>>
>>> Thank you Cory, for letting me know- I have a super-soft spot
>>>in my heart for cats. When Bootzee cuddles up next to me later,
>>>she and I will send good wishes to Annie, who I'm sure crossed
>>>the proverbial rainbow bridge with no trouble.
>>>
>>> http://rainbowsbridge.com/Poem.htm
>>
>> Nice sentiment.
>>
>> I believe that when an animal or human dies they simply cease. Blip.
>> Out go the lights. No rainbows. No tunnels of light. Their runtime, in
>> a way, has been terminated.
>>
>> Where does your operating system go when you switch off your computer?
>> I know the code for it is on the hard drive and it will be replicated
>> again. But that runtime just ceases. The concerted energy that made
>> your programs run simply dissipates. And without that energy it
>> cannot be sustained. And so, too, the program dissipates.
>>
>> Humans are simply meat-based computers. If, say, a train were to wreck
>> your meatware to the point where your life spark, your Qi, your
>> energy, your bioelectric force were no longer sustainable. Then your
>> consciousness... the culmination of cognitive processes, stored
>> experiences and resultant awareness would also dissipate.
>>
>> We are binary creatures. We are either 1 or 0. There is no in between
>> state.
>>
>> And there are only 10 types of people who can read binary. Those who
>> can and those who can't. :) 
>>
>> But anyway, I'm sure Annie had fun while she was 1. She has no pain
>> now that she is 0.
>>
>> I had the misfortune of seeing my cat, Chester (an affectionate snow
>> white Himalayan) turned into a bunch of little 0 bits by a pack of
>> neighborhood dogs that had gone semi-feral. Had I a rifle at the time
>> I would not have been the only one to lose a pet that day, to be sure.
>>
>> To make sure I spelled Himalayan right I went a-checkin and found this
>> picture that looks almost like me cat. http://tinyurl.com/dnl6j
>>
>
>It seems obvious from your cut and dry approach to life and death that you
>must have never experienced any supernatural phenomenon. Such experiences
>over my short lifetime have indelibly secured my belief that the energy that
>drives this meat computer is an entity to itself, and will not confined by
>or cease from the hard drive that is my brain upon death. Going to that
>Wi-Fi in the sky? :^)

I wouldn't say that. I've experienced supernatural events. Seen
things. Felt things.

But I do not believe they were residual energies of dead persons. I
believe there are spirit creatures. Intelligent entities of pure
energy. But I believe that that is how we are made. I believe we are
the creature, not a componant of a creature that lives on. A meat
puppet, for lack of a better word in this context. :-D

--
--==<S m e g h e a d>==--
Anonymous
August 16, 2005 1:27:42 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starsiege.tribes (More info?)

ScratchMonkey wrote:
> Uh oh... my little demon just went from frantic playtime to quiet,
> and that always worries me, as I wonder what trouble she could be
> getting into....


Oh, how I know that feeling!!! LOL



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Anonymous
August 16, 2005 1:34:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starsiege.tribes (More info?)

Smeghead wrote, snipped:
> I had the misfortune of seeing my cat, Chester (an affectionate snow
> white Himalayan) turned into a bunch of little 0 bits by a pack of
> neighborhood dogs that had gone semi-feral. Had I a rifle at the time
> I would not have been the only one to lose a pet that day, to be sure.
>
> To make sure I spelled Himalayan right I went a-checkin and found this
> picture that looks almost like me cat. http://tinyurl.com/dnl6j


Ooh, a beauty.....that's the sort of fur TinkyBits has,
although she's mostly Turkish Angora.

I can't imagine the horror of seeing that...........UGH



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August 16, 2005 1:34:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starsiege.tribes (More info?)

On 15 Aug 2005 21:34:34 GMT, "Miracle Smith" <GetLost@yourexpense.com>
wrote:

>Smeghead wrote, snipped:
>> I had the misfortune of seeing my cat, Chester (an affectionate snow
>> white Himalayan) turned into a bunch of little 0 bits by a pack of
>> neighborhood dogs that had gone semi-feral. Had I a rifle at the time
>> I would not have been the only one to lose a pet that day, to be sure.
>>
>> To make sure I spelled Himalayan right I went a-checkin and found this
>> picture that looks almost like me cat. http://tinyurl.com/dnl6j
>
>
> Ooh, a beauty.....that's the sort of fur TinkyBits has,
>although she's mostly Turkish Angora.
>
> I can't imagine the horror of seeing that...........UGH

There is a rage associated with an event like that. If it wasn't for
my own personal safety I could have ripped a dog or two in half
barehanded.

But I don't think it would have served either me or my cat any good
for us both to become red ribbons.

--
--==<S m e g h e a d>==--
Anonymous
August 16, 2005 1:42:00 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starsiege.tribes (More info?)

> It seems obvious from your cut and dry approach to life and death
> that you must have never experienced any supernatural phenomenon. Such experiences over my short
> lifetime have indelibly secured my
> belief that the energy that drives this meat computer is an entity to
> itself, and will not confined by or cease from the hard drive that is
> my brain upon death. Going to that Wi-Fi in the sky? :^)
>
> Quixote

Thank you for expressing what my still-addled brain could not
yet today. :) 

I have seen things that verify (to me) we do exist in some form
after our body gives up. And heard things. <shudder>



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Anonymous
August 16, 2005 11:24:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starsiege.tribes (More info?)

"Quixote" <quixote@writeme.com> wrote in
news:11g20ipdt8jg81@corp.supernews.com:

> It seems obvious from your cut and dry approach to life and death that
> you must have never experienced any supernatural phenomenon.

Supernatural, as in lacking explanation? If I don't know how something
works, I don't use that as justfication for making something up. Anyone
heard of cargo cults?

From one of my heroes, Richard Feynman:

http://www.physics.brocku.ca/etc/cargo_cult_science.htm...
Anonymous
August 16, 2005 7:11:43 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starsiege.tribes (More info?)

ScratchMonkey wrote:
> "Quixote" <quixote@writeme.com> wrote in
> news:11g20ipdt8jg81@corp.supernews.com:
>
>
>>It seems obvious from your cut and dry approach to life and death that
>>you must have never experienced any supernatural phenomenon.
>
>
> Supernatural, as in lacking explanation? If I don't know how something
> works, I don't use that as justfication for making something up. Anyone
> heard of cargo cults?

The GSV Cargo Cult (General Systems Vehicle), one of the characters in
an Iain M. Banks book :) 

> From one of my heroes, Richard Feynman:
>
> http://www.physics.brocku.ca/etc/cargo_cult_science.htm...

Very nice. But then, Feynman rocks. I have some audio-lectures from the
guy. It's hard to imagine smarts behind a voice like that :) 
--
Frank
Anonymous
August 16, 2005 8:06:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starsiege.tribes (More info?)

"ScratchMonkey" <ScratchMonkey.blacklist@sewingwitch.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96B4371852BDFscratchmonkey@216.196.97.136...
> "Quixote" <quixote@writeme.com> wrote in
> news:11g20ipdt8jg81@corp.supernews.com:
>
>> It seems obvious from your cut and dry approach to life and death that
>> you must have never experienced any supernatural phenomenon.
>
> Supernatural, as in lacking explanation? If I don't know how something
> works, I don't use that as justfication for making something up. Anyone
> heard of cargo cults?
>
> From one of my heroes, Richard Feynman:
>
> http://www.physics.brocku.ca/etc/cargo_cult_science.htm...

If this was meant to be insulting, then you succeeded. Do you feel
threatened that there may be things you don't understand? You certainly
have no idea what has happened in my life, or what I have experienced.

Quixote
Anonymous
August 16, 2005 11:33:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starsiege.tribes (More info?)

"Quixote" <quixote@writeme.com> wrote in
news:11g4u86ukmfaf@corp.supernews.com:

> still trying to figure out why Scratch felt the need to belittle those
> experiences and relegate my beliefs to "making something up."

Sorry if it offended you, but my honest question stands: Does
"supernatural" mean "I don't have an explanation"? I don't know the
difference between "belief" and "making something up". If there is one, I'm
all ears.

I grew up a skeptic in a Christian household, with ministers and parents
"encouraging" me to believe in their fantasies in that uncomfortable way it
is with families, and it took me a long time to develop the intellectual
strength to reject them outright and stand up for my lack of belief. It
tends to make my hypersensitive around believers. I have the same feeling
watching a family member fall for a scam. Just because the scammer believes
his own scam, and in fact inherited it father-to-son for several thousand
years, doesn't make it more palatable.

> If one does not have anything to believe in, then I find that sad for
> that person, but I surely won't belittle them for their personal
> beliefs.

Have you considered that that pity is a form of belittlement?
Anonymous
August 16, 2005 11:43:43 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starsiege.tribes (More info?)

In case I wasn't clear, my reaction was defensive. I interpreted your
response to Smeg as "skeptics have insufficient experience to know the
nature of the universe and I do". It struck me as condescending and it felt
like you poked one of my hot buttons.
Anonymous
August 17, 2005 12:14:48 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starsiege.tribes (More info?)

"ScratchMonkey" <ScratchMonkey.blacklist@sewingwitch.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96B4B292FD59Fscratchmonkey@216.196.97.136...
> "Quixote" <quixote@writeme.com> wrote in
> news:11g4u86ukmfaf@corp.supernews.com:
>
>> still trying to figure out why Scratch felt the need to belittle those
>> experiences and relegate my beliefs to "making something up."
>
> Sorry if it offended you, but my honest question stands: Does
> "supernatural" mean "I don't have an explanation"? I don't know the
> difference between "belief" and "making something up". If there is one,
> I'm
> all ears.
>
> I grew up a skeptic in a Christian household, with ministers and parents
> "encouraging" me to believe in their fantasies in that uncomfortable way
> it
> is with families, and it took me a long time to develop the intellectual
> strength to reject them outright and stand up for my lack of belief. It
> tends to make my hypersensitive around believers. I have the same feeling
> watching a family member fall for a scam. Just because the scammer
> believes
> his own scam, and in fact inherited it father-to-son for several thousand
> years, doesn't make it more palatable.
>
>> If one does not have anything to believe in, then I find that sad for
>> that person, but I surely won't belittle them for their personal
>> beliefs.
>
> Have you considered that that pity is a form of belittlement?

Which is why I did not bring it up, until I was confronted in such a
manner...

Belief is easy. You believe (or call it hope) that every day when you get
into your car and drive to work that all of the safety features built into
your car are going to work, that other drivers are going to obey driving
laws, and that you will arrive to your destination safely. You don't know
for sure until you get there.

I have had experiences which lead me to believe (or hope) that life exists
beyond this body. I won't know for sure until I get there. Such is belief.

There is little need, nor desire, to share my intimate experiences with
someone who has already scoffed them off as fantasy. It matters as little
to me what you think, as to you what I think.

I would have thought your experience at home would have taught you
tolerance, if nothing else. I have revealed very little of what I actually
believe, yet you seem to have jumped to huge conclusions about it already.
So, with pun intended, believe what you want...

Quixote
Anonymous
August 17, 2005 12:17:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starsiege.tribes (More info?)

"ScratchMonkey" <ScratchMonkey.blacklist@sewingwitch.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96B4B45942689scratchmonkey@216.196.97.136...
> In case I wasn't clear, my reaction was defensive. I interpreted your
> response to Smeg as "skeptics have insufficient experience to know the
> nature of the universe and I do". It struck me as condescending and it
> felt
> like you poked one of my hot buttons.

Then for that I apologize.

Quixote
Anonymous
August 17, 2005 1:17:42 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starsiege.tribes (More info?)

ScratchMonkey wrote:
> "Quixote" <quixote@writeme.com> wrote in
> news:11g20ipdt8jg81@corp.supernews.com:
>
>> It seems obvious from your cut and dry approach to life and death
>> that you must have never experienced any supernatural phenomenon.
>
> Supernatural, as in lacking explanation? If I don't know how something
> works, I don't use that as justfication for making something up.
> Anyone heard of cargo cults?
>
> From one of my heroes, Richard Feynman:
>
> http://www.physics.brocku.ca/etc/cargo_cult_science.htm...


Interesting read, but I don't see how it's relevant to the
conversation. Unless you're pointing out that "proof of afterlife"
isn't proof until it can be proven to be nothing else but.

Damn. My head hurts. More coffee, and a cinnamon roll........



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August 17, 2005 1:17:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starsiege.tribes (More info?)

On 16 Aug 2005 21:17:42 GMT, "Miracle Smith" <GetLost@yourexpense.com>
wrote:

>ScratchMonkey wrote:
>> "Quixote" <quixote@writeme.com> wrote in
>> news:11g20ipdt8jg81@corp.supernews.com:
>>
>>> It seems obvious from your cut and dry approach to life and death
>>> that you must have never experienced any supernatural phenomenon.
>>
>> Supernatural, as in lacking explanation? If I don't know how something
>> works, I don't use that as justfication for making something up.
>> Anyone heard of cargo cults?
>>
>> From one of my heroes, Richard Feynman:
>>
>> http://www.physics.brocku.ca/etc/cargo_cult_science.htm...
>
>
> Interesting read, but I don't see how it's relevant to the
>conversation. Unless you're pointing out that "proof of afterlife"
>isn't proof until it can be proven to be nothing else but.
>
> Damn. My head hurts. More coffee, and a cinnamon roll........

Mmmmmmmm cinnamon rolls. Aaaaggghghhghghhhhh

--
--==<S m e g h e a d>==--
August 17, 2005 3:25:55 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starsiege.tribes (More info?)

On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 20:17:08 -0500, "Quixote" <quixote@writeme.com>
wrote:

>
>"ScratchMonkey" <ScratchMonkey.blacklist@sewingwitch.com> wrote in message
>news:Xns96B4B45942689scratchmonkey@216.196.97.136...
>> In case I wasn't clear, my reaction was defensive. I interpreted your
>> response to Smeg as "skeptics have insufficient experience to know the
>> nature of the universe and I do". It struck me as condescending and it
>> felt
>> like you poked one of my hot buttons.
>
>Then for that I apologize.

Culpable or not at this point... that thread was a helluvan
interesting read.

Particularly the bit about Miracle's left buttcheek.

And I don't mean that in the cheeky way it may sound. (Butt the
"cheeky" pun was totally intentional (ass well as the mispelling of
the conjunctive "but")) :-D

I have experienced paranormal stuff, seen inanimate objects move, etc.
As well as, like Miracle, being slapped... not on the rear, but across
the left of my face. Soundly. So I know that creeped out feeling. Did
I imagine it? Am I half-awake dreaming that I'm fully awake? Your
brain does all kinds of contortions trying to make sense of it.

But I do not believe humans persist after the biological life forces
terminate and dissipate into the universe.

--
--==<S m e g h e a d>==--
Anonymous
August 17, 2005 5:23:00 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starsiege.tribes (More info?)

ScratchMonkey wrote:
> Sorry if it offended you, but my honest question stands: Does
> "supernatural" mean "I don't have an explanation"? I don't know the
> difference between "belief" and "making something up". If there is
> one, I'm all ears.


If I may, I'd like to answer from my point of view.

A belief requires some first-person input, whether it be
visual, auditory, or physical.

Let's say that I'm standing and watching something alone in
a room, and I feel a slap on my ass. Not imagined, but a real
firm smack, right on my left buttcheek.

Whirling around, there is no one there. My butt still smarts.

Did I make that up? No.

Then, what? What to make of it? There are many possibilities,
including the one which may mean I'm delusional, but the fact that
I felt the slap so solidly makes it real enough. Having no personal
history of mental illness, I then conclude "something" whapped me
on the butt.

That then is my belief: something I cannot explain smacked me.

Does that make sense? Okay, then, let's say my mom carts me
off to Sunday school, and I listen to the teacher read Bible stories.

I don't know the people in the stories, so I ask the teacher if she
knows any of them. She says no, that they lived a long, long time ago.
I ask who wrote the book. She says men who lived way back then.

So I listen to the stories, but I don't believe any of them. Especially
that one about the fishes. Hoowee, what a tall tale! I tell the teacher
that someone fibbed about the fish, that no one could make fish appear
from thin air.
The teacher insists the story is true, but I see no proof. She tells
me the man who made the fish appear is "special", that he is the son
of not just "a god", but *the* God. Implying that there is just one god.

Now I know I don't believe her. There were very old men who
believed in other gods, like the elders in old Greece, so were they
making up their gods? And if they could make up gods, why couldn't
the other old men?

So I conclude the Bible is just stories, nothing more. Made up.

There is the difference to me. :) 

BTW, both scenarios described above actually happened.
And man, did I catch hell for disrupting Sunday school.

--
{{{{{HUGZ!}}}}}
>^,,^< Miracle



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Anonymous
August 17, 2005 10:10:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starsiege.tribes (More info?)

"Miracle Smith" <GetLost@yourexpense.com> wrote in news:43029174$1_3
@news6.uncensored-news.com:

> BTW, both scenarios described above actually happened.
> And man, did I catch hell for disrupting Sunday school.

LOL, you'll have to ask stepwife about her experiences like that!

And the butt slap illustrates a point: You can say that you experienced it,
but you can't infer anything else from it. As an isolated incidident with
no further data, it's not useful for drawing conclusions. Now if you can
get it to happen again, and collect more data on the cause....
Anonymous
August 17, 2005 10:19:38 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starsiege.tribes (More info?)

Smeghead wrote:
> Culpable or not at this point... that thread was a helluvan
> interesting read.
>
> Particularly the bit about Miracle's left buttcheek.
>
> And I don't mean that in the cheeky way it may sound. (Butt the
> "cheeky" pun was totally intentional (ass well as the mispelling of
> the conjunctive "but")) :-D
>
> I have experienced paranormal stuff, seen inanimate objects move, etc.
> As well as, like Miracle, being slapped... not on the rear, but across
> the left of my face. Soundly. So I know that creeped out feeling. Did
> I imagine it? Am I half-awake dreaming that I'm fully awake? Your
> brain does all kinds of contortions trying to make sense of it.
>
> But I do not believe humans persist after the biological life forces
> terminate and dissipate into the universe.


Well then, I look forward to the shocked look on your face
when you get to the other side. :D 



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Anonymous
August 17, 2005 10:19:39 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starsiege.tribes (More info?)

"Miracle Smith" <GetLost@yourexpense.com> wrote in news:4302d6fa$1_2
@news6.uncensored-news.com:

>> Particularly the bit about Miracle's left buttcheek.
>>
>> [... nods off for a moment ...]
>
> Well then, I look forward to the shocked look on your face
> when you get to the other side. :D 

Huh, what? When you get to the other butt cheek?! Say what?! :D 
Anonymous
August 18, 2005 6:00:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starsiege.tribes (More info?)

Smeghead wrote:
> On 17 Aug 2005 21:00:57 GMT, "Miracle Smith" <GetLost@yourexpense.com>
> wrote:
>> LOL Well that's the truth, isn't it? That none of us will know
>>until we actually die. It's what we choose to believe about what
>>happens next that makes debate interesting.
>
> Unless I'm right. In which case there is no consciousness at death.
> Then it would be impossible to know anything. :-)

On the plus side, you won't feel depressed about it either. At the time,
it won't be an issue, let alone one you have feelings about.

So don't worry about it in life, and after death it'll sort itself out
either way.
--
Frank
August 18, 2005 6:00:29 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starsiege.tribes (More info?)

On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 02:00:28 +0200, Frank van Schie
<frankNOSPAM@email.it> wrote:

>Smeghead wrote:
>> On 17 Aug 2005 21:00:57 GMT, "Miracle Smith" <GetLost@yourexpense.com>
>> wrote:
>>> LOL Well that's the truth, isn't it? That none of us will know
>>>until we actually die. It's what we choose to believe about what
>>>happens next that makes debate interesting.
>>
>> Unless I'm right. In which case there is no consciousness at death.
>> Then it would be impossible to know anything. :-)
>
>On the plus side, you won't feel depressed about it either. At the time,
>it won't be an issue, let alone one you have feelings about.
>
>So don't worry about it in life, and after death it'll sort itself out
>either way.

Which is why I do not fear dying. It's not plan A, but it's not
something I dread.

I do not believe God is cruel enough to enforce an eternal Auschwitz
for, in the grand scheme of things, what amounts to a flicker of
mispent life.

It would be like holding your childs hand to a stove for days for
deliberately spilling milk.

--
--==<S m e g h e a d>==--
Anonymous
August 18, 2005 6:00:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starsiege.tribes (More info?)

Smeghead wrote:
> I do not believe God is cruel enough to enforce an eternal Auschwitz
> for, in the grand scheme of things, what amounts to a flicker of
> mispent life.
>
> It would be like holding your childs hand to a stove for days for
> deliberately spilling milk.


In the book of Revelation, it clearly states that "hell" will be a
period of 1,000 years here on earth, spent with Satan running
things. Then at the end of that period, Satan and everyone else
(his followers who were left behind after the 'rapture') is thrown
into a "lake of fire", where everyone perishes. Even Satan.
:) 



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August 18, 2005 6:00:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starsiege.tribes (More info?)

On 18 Aug 2005 01:39:43 GMT, "Miracle Smith" <GetLost@yourexpense.com>
wrote:

>Smeghead wrote:
>> I do not believe God is cruel enough to enforce an eternal Auschwitz
>> for, in the grand scheme of things, what amounts to a flicker of
>> mispent life.
>>
>> It would be like holding your childs hand to a stove for days for
>> deliberately spilling milk.
>
>
> In the book of Revelation, it clearly states that "hell" will be a
>period of 1,000 years here on earth, spent with Satan running
>things. Then at the end of that period, Satan and everyone else
>(his followers who were left behind after the 'rapture') is thrown
>into a "lake of fire", where everyone perishes. Even Satan.
> :) 

That would mean that God created everything for nothing. I don't buy
it. Particularly when compared to other parts of the same ancient
collection of texts.. For instance Isaiah 45:18:

"For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that
formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it
not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is
none else."

Other translations render the bit about "not in vain" as "who made it
not to be a waste, but as a living-place for man" (Bible in Basic
English)

A useful tool online is www.bible.cc, an online parallel transcription
where you can compare various translations on screen at once.

But it would seem to me to be incredibly "vain" to create a world,
predestine its inhabitants to pain, misery and suffering, the
foreordain its ending and the ending of everyone on it.

Christendom's theological quirks, idosyncracies and contradictions are
something I've always found interesting. Intensely so.



--
--==<S m e g h e a d>==--
Anonymous
August 18, 2005 9:36:49 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starsiege.tribes (More info?)

Smeghead wrote:
> That would mean that God created everything for nothing. I don't buy
> it. Particularly when compared to other parts of the same ancient
> collection of texts.. For instance Isaiah 45:18:
>
> "For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that
> formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it
> not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is
> none else."
>
> Other translations render the bit about "not in vain" as "who made it
> not to be a waste, but as a living-place for man" (Bible in Basic
> English)
>
> A useful tool online is www.bible.cc, an online parallel transcription
> where you can compare various translations on screen at once.
>
> But it would seem to me to be incredibly "vain" to create a world,
> predestine its inhabitants to pain, misery and suffering, the
> foreordain its ending and the ending of everyone on it.
>
> Christendom's theological quirks, idosyncracies and contradictions are
> something I've always found interesting. Intensely so.


Same here. That's why at various times during my life I've studied it.
The more of it I've read, the more contradictions have jumped out at
me. Since mere men wrote it, I doubt the validity of much of it.
I have no doubt it was well-intended, however.



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Anonymous
August 18, 2005 10:40:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starsiege.tribes (More info?)

"Miracle Smith" <GetLost@yourexpense.com> wrote in
news:4303a589$1_2@news6.uncensored-news.com:

> For me, it's less a belief than it is wishful thinking. I *like*
> Sylvia
> Browne's version of what happens, so I hope she's right. I can't
> believe any one religion or any one person knows the true answer,
> so I'll just wait and see what happens myself. :D 

Now that's a position I can easily sympathize with.
Anonymous
August 18, 2005 10:46:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starsiege.tribes (More info?)

"Miracle Smith" <GetLost@yourexpense.com> wrote in
news:43041e71$1_3@news6.uncensored-news.com:

>> Christendom's theological quirks, idosyncracies and contradictions
>> are something I've always found interesting. Intensely so.
>
> Same here. That's why at various times during my life I've studied
> it.
> The more of it I've read, the more contradictions have jumped out at
> me. Since mere men wrote it, I doubt the validity of much of it.
> I have no doubt it was well-intended, however.

If you can find a copy, check out "Ken's Guide to the Bible":

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/092223317...
6320635?v=glance
Anonymous
August 18, 2005 10:49:39 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starsiege.tribes (More info?)

"Miracle Smith" <GetLost@yourexpense.com> wrote in
news:4303a7a2$1_1@news6.uncensored-news.com:

> Ah, you are behind in your science reading. There are now studies
> which were performed by scientists during "supernatural" events, which
> measured (and are still ongoing) several physical aspects of the
> envirionments where the events occurred.
> The results are surprising, and the conclusions deduced so far
> prove
> that, at least for now, real physical changes are possible without any
> apparent human involvement.
>
> It's a fascinating field of study! I like the ones where the
> scientists
> document the "cold spot". :) 

Any links? Sounds interesting.

I'm like Houdini and Randi: I'd love to see proof of the "supernatural",
but so far have been disappointed.
Anonymous
August 19, 2005 3:11:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starsiege.tribes (More info?)

ScratchMonkey wrote:
> If you can find a copy, check out "Ken's Guide to the Bible":
>
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/092223317...
> 6320635?v=glance


LOL Ooh yeah!



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Anonymous
August 19, 2005 3:12:47 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starsiege.tribes (More info?)

ScratchMonkey wrote:
> "Miracle Smith" <GetLost@yourexpense.com> wrote in
> news:4303a7a2$1_1@news6.uncensored-news.com:
>
>> Ah, you are behind in your science reading. There are now studies
>> which were performed by scientists during "supernatural" events,
>> which measured (and are still ongoing) several physical aspects of
>> the envirionments where the events occurred.
>> The results are surprising, and the conclusions deduced so far
>> prove
>> that, at least for now, real physical changes are possible without
>> any apparent human involvement.
>>
>> It's a fascinating field of study! I like the ones where the
>> scientists
>> document the "cold spot". :) 
>
> Any links? Sounds interesting.
>
> I'm like Houdini and Randi: I'd love to see proof of the
> "supernatural", but so far have been disappointed.


I'll have to think a bit and find some of the folks who have done
the studies. But I'll get back to you!



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!