Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Dreamworks pick Intel's Nehalem and Larrabee over AMD/ATI

Last response: in CPUs
Share
July 8, 2008 6:01:05 PM

Does dreamworks know something about Intel unreleased graphics "Larabee" tech that most of us dont. Whatever it is, they have decided to completely revamp the entire computing environment to Intel.

Jeffrey Katzenberg, Dreamworks Animation's chief executive is said to have said: "They are radical game-changers for the entire field of computing."

"Our objective is to significantly heighten the movie going experience using DreamWorks Animation?s ground-breaking 3-D filmmaking tools," said Jeffrey Katzenberg, CEO of DreamWorks Animation. "Technology plays a significant role in enabling our artists to tell great stories. By utilizing Intel?s industry-leading computing products, we will create a new and innovative way for moviegoers to experience our films in 3-D."




Here are some related links.

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/07/08/...


http://www.newstin.co.uk/sim/uk/67058376/en-010-0039009...

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.aspx?NewsI...

July 8, 2008 6:17:31 PM

Larrabee and all this on-die gpus are just going to cause more confusion in the pc market, especially for 'joe sixpack'. We're going to have to choose between the advantages and disadvantages between Larrabee type cpus and discrete gpus
July 8, 2008 6:22:04 PM

Take that Thunderman!
Related resources
July 8, 2008 6:43:25 PM

^ lol, wasn't this one of the things he advertised about amd?
July 8, 2008 6:45:48 PM

From what I've gathered, Intel has been focusing on ray tracing as their rendering method with Larrabee, standard consumer graphics cards are focused on rasterisation and shading techniques. Dreamworks films are all ray traced, GPUs do not "out of the box" ray trace, a CUDA/CTM/GNGPU application has to be written to ray trace on the GPU.

I'm guessing the former process was: rasterize the scene on the GPU to position everything (quick), if it looks okay ray trace it crudely to get any additional tweaks on animators workstation (moderate), then when approved ray trace on the supercomputer (CPUs) to full resolution.
a c 126 à CPUs
July 8, 2008 6:50:59 PM

blackwidow_rsa said:
Larrabee and all this on-die gpus are just going to cause more confusion in the pc market, especially for 'joe sixpack'. We're going to have to choose between the advantages and disadvantages between Larrabee type cpus and discrete gpus


Um what? Larrabee is a discrete GPU that will run on PCIe. Nehalem will have a GPU probably based on Larrabee on package. But seriously....where ever you got that info it is wayyyyy off.

spuddyt said:
^ lol, wasn't this one of the things he advertised about amd?


Yes.....yes it was..... next Lucas arts will go for a Nehalem & Larrabee setup and thunderman will be crushed.
a b à CPUs
July 8, 2008 7:50:50 PM

I thought the lucas art was more of a BM thing
July 8, 2008 8:02:21 PM

Hmmm....


wonder how much Intel paid them for that.
July 8, 2008 8:28:48 PM

beerzombie said:
From what I've gathered, Intel has been focusing on ray tracing as their rendering method with Larrabee, standard consumer graphics cards are focused on rasterisation and shading techniques. Dreamworks films are all ray traced, GPUs do not "out of the box" ray trace, a CUDA/CTM/GNGPU application has to be written to ray trace on the GPU.

I'm guessing the former process was: rasterize the scene on the GPU to position everything (quick), if it looks okay ray trace it crudely to get any additional tweaks on animators workstation (moderate), then when approved ray trace on the supercomputer (CPUs) to full resolution.


ATI's new 4800 series does support ray tracing, and from what I've heard rumors about at various sites it's supposedly pretty good. Also, ATI's cards DO support ray tracing out of the box.

Now, even though it might be DX9 ray tracing I feel that ATI would be able to come up with a better ray tracing solution as compared to Intel's.
a c 126 à CPUs
July 8, 2008 10:40:22 PM

Warsaw said:
ATI's new 4800 series does support ray tracing, and from what I've heard rumors about at various sites it's supposedly pretty good. Also, ATI's cards DO support ray tracing out of the box.

Now, even though it might be DX9 ray tracing I feel that ATI would be able to come up with a better ray tracing solution as compared to Intel's.


You must not have read. Intel bought a raytracing company about 1-2 years ago. It will also have Havok to use. So Larrabee will probably have the better raytracing solution. Don't ever doubt Intels R&D. The amount they have for it can easily equal AMD, ATI and nVidias all together.
a c 108 à CPUs
July 8, 2008 10:57:41 PM

Amiga500 said:
Hmmm....


wonder how much Intel paid them for that.


That's a good question.

Paramount is dropping Dreamworks this year. Without a distributor Dreamworks is trying to raise $2bil to go independent.




July 9, 2008 12:11:48 AM

Waiting for the....

a c 126 à CPUs
July 9, 2008 12:52:28 AM

Amiga500 said:
Hmmm....


wonder how much Intel paid them for that.


We could have asked the same question when they went AMD. Or heck lets ask how much Apple pays companies to use MACs for picture/movie design.

Oh wait. Could it be that Larrabe and Nehalem offer what they need? Heck its possible.

Thing is we have no idea what Larrabee is capable of. Maybe the Raytracing engine on it will exceed what a ATI/nVidia GPU can do considering that Intel has a Raytracing department and is obviously trying to make sure that Larrabee is all set.

yomamafor1 said:
Waiting for the....

http://tinyurl.com/4onjs6


LMAO. Thats just funny.

Come to think of it.... maybe if they had this airing on all the TV stations in areas that get hurricanes and such people wouldn't stay.
July 9, 2008 1:07:09 AM

jimmysmitty said:
Oh wait. Could it be that Larrabe and Nehalem offer what they need? Heck its possible.

Thing is we have no idea what Larrabee is capable of. Maybe the Raytracing engine on it will exceed what a ATI/nVidia GPU can do considering that Intel has a Raytracing department and is obviously trying to make sure that Larrabee is all set.

Larrabee does not exist yet, don't know a company that will spend money of something that doesn't exist
July 9, 2008 1:17:26 AM

kassler said:
Larrabee does not exist yet, don't know a company that will spend money of something that doesn't exist


Quote:
Intel's code-named Nehalem processor for high-end workstations will have up to eight processor cores, while its Larrabee server processor will have between 10 and 100, said Intel spokesman Nick Knupffer. Those are the two chips DreamWorks has agreed to buy.


You know one - Dreamworks. Of course, Dreamworks can probably pull out of the Larrabee deal, if it turns out not to perform the way it expects, I assume.

Although they did say Larrabee was a server processor, which is something it has never been called or mentioned as before. Hmmm?
July 9, 2008 1:34:29 AM

Does it actually matter how they make movies? It's not like you need to switch computer hardware to watch a movie. Besides, those special effect scenes are pre-rendered, and based more on cpu than gpu. This doesn't mean Larrabee is more powerful than the traditional discrete gpus we have now, only that movie makers don't need nearly as much graphics performance as running games like Crysis. Cpu performance is what matters to them.
July 9, 2008 9:34:36 AM

jimmysmitty said:
Oh wait. Could it be that Larrabe and Nehalem offer what they need? Heck its possible.

Thing is we have no idea what Larrabee is capable of.



Exactly. No one has any idea what Larrabee is capable of. All it is at the moment is powerpoint performance projections. Grow some objectivity and quit licking Intel's arse.



Fact: Intel are looking to hit the workstation/server market with Nehalem - particularly the 4P/8P end.

Fact: Intel are looking to hit the GPU market through ray tracing and rasterisation (but mainly ray tracing apparently) with Larrabee.


Having a high-publicity company like dreamworks as a user will do wonders to build the reputation of both Nehalem and Larrabee in their respective markets, regardless of their performance.



I half expect to see a wee Intel logo in the bottom corner of the Dreamworks splash next time I am in the cinema watching one of their films.
a c 126 à CPUs
July 9, 2008 1:22:01 PM

Sorry Amiga. I'm not licking any arse but your question was just stupid. Just because a company switches what they use all of the sudden they are being paid to.

Of course we cannot truly say if Larrabee does or does not exist yet as we are not on the inside of Intel. It could have prototypes they are testing and showing the companies the prospective performance from that.

Nehalem on the other hand does exist and maybe what Nehalem is showing is hitting right where they would need for faster production which would save them money as we all know in that industry time is money.

BTW I am being very objective with Larrabee. I just want something new to shake up the graphics market so that nVidia and ATI start to work harder. Plus if Larrabee does make them sweat it means lower prices on better hardware for us.
a c 108 à CPUs
July 9, 2008 2:00:22 PM

jimmysmitty said:
~~snip~~

Nehalem on the other hand does exist and maybe what Nehalem is showing is hitting right where they would need for faster production which would save them money as we all know in that industry time is money.


I would guess that as opposed to saving time, ray-tracing of DWA 3d content would take longer but provide much higher detail and realism.

I just can't figure out if DWA is expecting everyone to wear those goofy 3d glasses ... :ouch: 
July 9, 2008 2:27:38 PM

You will probably find that if Dreamworks is struggling for cash that Intel has "chipped in" for a good slice of the publicity, doesn't mean that the AMD hardware can't cut it.
a c 126 à CPUs
July 9, 2008 2:52:33 PM

Heh.... as I said. Some company chooses another company and they are being paid or helped out.

Ahhh I love it.

I wouldn't mind the 3D glasses. Freakin awesomeness. I wouldn't mind having a pair to use while I drive. I wounder what that would do.
July 9, 2008 3:10:36 PM

I didn't know Intel sold HP systems, since Dreamworks is replacing the AMD HP systems with Intel HP systems.

Quote:
The computer animation studio behind Shrek, Madagascar, and this summer's kid-friendly hit Kung Fu Panda is replacing its fleet of 1,500 Hewlett-Packard machines powered by AMD chips with Intel backed HP systems.

Quote:
Intel and AMD win and lose customers all the time. It's rarely up to them, since computer manufacturers, not chipmakers, are the ones vying for major corporate accounts

Hmmm....so, it's HP that paid Dreamworks? Twice?

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2008/07/08/intel-shreks-amd.aspx
July 9, 2008 3:22:05 PM

dagger said:
Besides, those special effect scenes are pre-rendered, and based more on cpu than gpu. This doesn't mean Larrabee is more powerful than the traditional discrete gpus we have now, only that movie makers don't need nearly as much graphics performance as running games like Crysis. Cpu performance is what matters to them.


That's what Larrabee is addressing, allowing the GPU to handle the work that was previously done on the CPU. As I already said, Crysis et al are rasterized graphics (the GPUs fortay), raytracing has always been the CPU fortay.

ATI (and nVidia's) Ray Tracing are not nearly as mature as x86 methods, who knows what kind of specialized rendering software dreamworks is using. It might be way too much of an effort to convert this to the approaches used to program on a traditional GPU (memory access alignment, etc). It sounds like Larrabee is x86 based, so they may not need to port their software, and the savings in development could easily outweigh the hardware cost difference between Larrabee v traditional GPUs.
a b à CPUs
July 9, 2008 3:32:21 PM

jimmysmitty said:

I wouldn't mind the 3D glasses. Freakin awesomeness. I wouldn't mind having a pair to use while I drive. I wounder what that would do.


Umm, crash & burn?? :pt1cable: 
a c 126 à CPUs
July 9, 2008 3:48:18 PM

fazers_on_stun said:
Umm, crash & burn?? :pt1cable: 


Yea and 3D glasses + the 3D world would mean the crach and the burning would be in like 6D.......ohhhh.....
a b à CPUs
July 9, 2008 5:05:07 PM

I bought the "Atomic Bomb" VHS movie - came with the red & green 3D glasses so that you can watch an atomic explosion in 3D. Been years since I watched it so I don't even recall which explosions were in 3D. However the most impressive would have been the naval underwater test where the Navy set one off several hundred feet below an anchored fleet of captured/scrap ships including an aircraft carrier. Imagine a column of water a mile wide bursting up out of the ocean in less than a second, obliterating the fleet, and you'll get the picture.

Kinda gross when the scientists went aboard some of the ships still floating, to observe what remained of the tethered goats & caged pigs they used to test the effects of radiation...
a c 108 à CPUs
July 9, 2008 6:31:18 PM

NMDante said:
I didn't know Intel sold HP systems, since Dreamworks is replacing the AMD HP systems with Intel HP systems.

Quote:
The computer animation studio behind Shrek, Madagascar, and this summer's kid-friendly hit Kung Fu Panda is replacing its fleet of 1,500 Hewlett-Packard machines powered by AMD chips with Intel backed HP systems.

Quote:
Intel and AMD win and lose customers all the time. It's rarely up to them, since computer manufacturers, not chipmakers, are the ones vying for major corporate accounts

Hmmm....so, it's HP that paid Dreamworks? Twice?

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2008/07/08/intel-shreks-amd.aspx


With a large purchase the distributor (or OEM itself) has an endless array of programs they can bring together including supplemental advertising funds and branding opportunities. You can be assured of the Intel logo on just about everything from movie posters to television commercials with the 'da....da da da' jingle - if they are willing to pay, of course.

Companies pay for product placement in movies all the time. I think it would be a little tacky in a kid's animated film but not all movies like this are directed at children.

Sheesh ... they even pay race car drivers to sip whoop-ice energy drink during TV interviews (and teach them how to best hold the bottle to get that logo seen). Branding is a way of life in advertising these days. Intel has the cash to do it - certainly more so than AMD.

I'm sure there will be an Aliens vs. Monsters video game (Nuke 'em with Nehalem :pt1cable:  !!!) with a Jerry Seinfeld 'Larra-Bee'. The cross promotion and advertising opportunities are endless.
July 9, 2008 7:08:17 PM

There's something suspicious about this especially when the company needs cash..... Intel is bribing them? seems that Intel will never change their scheming ways....Dreamworks will regret it when their Machines keep freezing and crashing.

AMD for reliability and speed!! AMD the smarter choice!! Intel CPU's for Door stops!!

Me Thunderman exposing Intel evilness!!!!! and leading the AMD fans as their inspirational leader

AMD4Life!!!!
a b à CPUs
July 9, 2008 7:30:26 PM

^ There's no reason to believe Dreamworks will throw out the AMD machines anytime soon...

Yes, thunderman, those are very expensive doorsteps...

Thunderman gives AMD fans such as me, Reynod and etc. a bad reputation...

Edit: Haha thunderman got voted up =P
July 9, 2008 8:07:43 PM

amdfangirl said:
^ There's no reason to believe Dreamworks will throw out the AMD machines anytime soon...

Yes, thunderman, those are very expensive doorsteps...

Thunderman gives AMD fans such as me, Reynod and etc. a bad reputation...

Edit: Haha thunderman got voted up =P


Yeah, I think the crazy "AMD4Life" types give the reasonable AMD fans a bad rep. This was classic Thunderman. I love how he starts the sentence with, "Me Thunderman..." Reminds me of Grimlock from the transformers cartoons in the 80s.
July 9, 2008 8:39:08 PM

jimmysmitty said:
Sorry Amiga. I'm not licking any arse


Hmmm really...


Quote:

Of course we cannot truly say if Larrabee does or does not exist yet as we are not on the inside of Intel. It could have prototypes they are testing and showing the companies the prospective performance from that.



Followed by.

Quote:

BTW I am being very objective with Larrabee.



Yes... Intel have impressed a bleeding edge sfx company with a (very) pre-engineering sample chipset with at best alpha drivers (much more likely pre-alpha). Impressed them so much they are going to chuck their lot in with it for the future even though it is unlikely to have done much more than run (stable being the higher end of scale).



Who you trying to kid with "objective"?




Oh, and Aliens vs. Monsters which the newsies are touting is scheduled for release March 2009.... whereas Larrabee is scheduled for release late 2009... go figure.
a c 126 à CPUs
July 9, 2008 11:29:49 PM

Boy Amiga you know how to take it out of context don't ya. I never once said it was the best thing ever or that it was this or that. I just said it is possible that that is wahts happening.

You on the other hand seem to know so much anout it. So tell me when you started working for Intel and are on the inside of this project and able to release this info without getting fired?

Thats what I though. Thing is you don't know jack. Lets take a good example. Nehalem has been in design since Core 2. It also has had working silicon since oh....Q4 07. And it is scheduled for release in Q4 08. So what you are saying to me is that its inpossible for Intel to have a prototype version of Larrabee, since you know this, even though they had Nehalem in testing stages over a year before the projected release?

To top it off Intel has working 32nm silicon and I would not be suprised if they have a few working 32nm CPUs that they are testing it out on. And thats scheduled for release in Q4 09 as well. Heck the first working 32nm silicon was out in Q4 07.

You just need to ease up and understand I am objective. Maybe not to you since I don't just doubt everything I see but put out more ideas of what could be possible. Heck Intel could just be sitting on Larrabee for all we know.

And nmdante made a great point. They are buying HP machines and just decided that thats what they want. You could write to Dreamworks and ask them why they will go with a Nehalem and Larrabee setup when its available to them. They know why.

Fangirl don't worry. Most people just laugh at thunderman. I see no relation between you and him either way. Besides he is just throwing random crap thats untrue out there.
a b à CPUs
July 9, 2008 11:59:59 PM

^ If they had a Larrabee they'd show it alright! They would be like haha we beat you really badly and pretty much just gloat... that's the whole purpose of a demo chip ~ to create the Osborne effect (laptop guy) with the current GFX... everybody would want a Larrabee and nobody would want whatever AMD and Nvidia have... everybody would postpone their purchase of GFX chips until the Larrabee launch lowering sales...

But the thing is they must not have a working Larrabee or the remaining development cycle is too long and will deter any enthusiasm...

Thus I conclude that Larrabee is nowhere near completion... Now I'd better get back to watching "10 things I hate about you"...

uguv said:
Yeah, I think the crazy "AMD4Life" types give the reasonable AMD fans a bad rep. This was classic Thunderman. I love how he starts the sentence with, "Me Thunderman..." Reminds me of Grimlock from the transformers cartoons in the 80s.


"me grimlock no nice me grimlock king!"

Good times... (Yup, my BF watches the movie all the time, not to mention the cartoon... (DVD collection's set))

Could Grimlock be AMD inside? or Thunderman be Grimlock?
July 10, 2008 12:15:58 AM

Wisecracker said:
With a large purchase the distributor (or OEM itself) has an endless array of programs they can bring together including supplemental advertising funds and branding opportunities. You can be assured of the Intel logo on just about everything from movie posters to television commercials with the 'da....da da da' jingle - if they are willing to pay, of course.

Companies pay for product placement in movies all the time. I think it would be a little tacky in a kid's animated film but not all movies like this are directed at children.

Sheesh ... they even pay race car drivers to sip whoop-ice energy drink during TV interviews (and teach them how to best hold the bottle to get that logo seen). Branding is a way of life in advertising these days. Intel has the cash to do it - certainly more so than AMD.

I'm sure there will be an Aliens vs. Monsters video game (Nuke 'em with Nehalem :pt1cable:  !!!) with a Jerry Seinfeld 'Larra-Bee'. The cross promotion and advertising opportunities are endless.


You are now confusing advertising with buying or bribing (as Thunderman likes to claim) a company to use their products.
So, in your mind, anytime a company advertises, they are buying a company to use their products? Uh, huh. How is exactly is this any different than McDonald's or Burger King using a movie tie-in to boost sales? I don't get what your point is, or how this has to do with Dreamworks choosing an Intel based HP system over an AMD HP system. Product placement is everywhere, and every company tries to do it as best as possible. Again, what exactly does that have to do with Dreamworks choosing Intel based HP systems? Or how Intel's advertising had an effect on HP's bid?

Also, Intel helped Pixar with Ratatouille. I don't remember seeing any Intel logo or brand in the movie or on their movie posters. Hmm....
http://www.intel.com/pressroom/archive/releases/20070703corp.htm
Amiga500 said:
Of course we cannot truly say if Larrabee does or does not exist yet as we are not on the inside of Intel. It could have prototypes they are testing and showing the companies the prospective performance from that.

Yes... Intel have impressed a bleeding edge sfx company with a (very) pre-engineering sample chipset with at best alpha drivers (much more likely pre-alpha). Impressed them so much they are going to chuck their lot in with it for the future even though it is unlikely to have done much more than run (stable being the higher end of scale).

Who you trying to kid with "objective"?

Oh, and Aliens vs. Monsters which the newsies are touting is scheduled for release March 2009.... whereas Larrabee is scheduled for release late 2009... go figure.


Did you read any of the articles or even look for other articles, that could explain why Intel based HP systems were picked, and how Larrabee might come into play?

Quote:
"We've been happy with AMD up to this point," Batter said. "But as we look out and look at the number of compute engines per chip, the Intel roadmap syncs more closely with our needs."
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080708/dreamworks_animation_intel.html?.v=6
Quote:
Intel plans to use DreamWorks Animation as a test site for its future visual computing products, Knupffer said. Nehalem will be launched commercially by the end of the year, while Larrabee will launch in 2009 or 2010, he said.
http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2008Jul08/0,4670,DreamWorksAnimationIntel,00.html
Sounds like Intel will test Larrabee with Dreamworks, and Dreamworks can say that Larrabee isn't what they need, since it is not due until next year or even 2010.

Why all the need for conspiracy theories? So, one company picked Intel based HP systems over AMD based HP systems. Hell, even AMD didn't think there was anything "unethical" about it:
Quote:
AMD said the decision was mutual to end the marketing and equipment partnership, from which it benefited from publicity surrounding every DreamWorks Animation film for the past three years, but that it would seek to work with the studio again.

It was the latest blow for the world's No. 2 chipmaker, which has racked up more than $4 billion in losses in a skid that stretches back to the last three months of 2006.

"It's a cyclical industry," said AMD spokesman Drew Prairie. "We'll look forward to be able to work them again."
a c 126 à CPUs
July 10, 2008 12:21:41 AM

I agree Fangirl I was just saying we do not know. But even if they did have it rady there would be a few possible reasons to keep it in. 1 could be that they do want AMD to do well in the GPU arena. If Intel had something that smacked everything around and could put it out for a good price it would not be good for AMD or nVidia.

2 could be that since they are focusing on Ray Tracing and most every game is still using rasterization they want to wait until other companies start to use both insetad of release it with something barely anyone uses.

3It could also be that they are waiting for DX11 since they are set to support it as well as older DX APIs and Open GL as well. They have to wait until MS has it ready for release to the companies.

Of course that is all just possibilities. I do believe that they have working chips and are in testing stages, more than likely alpha really, as they have had other CPU designs testing from 1 year and sometimes more before release.

Drivers are a good reason to be holding off as well. You don't want to release something with poorly optimized drivers

I can't wait to see what it does. I just hope its something that does shake up the GPU market. Most people don't understand that if Intel does create something that pushes AMD and nVidia it will mean better technology for us for cheaper. And in my mind thats a good thing.
a b à CPUs
July 10, 2008 12:27:19 AM

^ Dx11 gets announced in one month - FUD source but, Intel may be right... Dx11, according to them releases on Q4 09 so since Larrabee is most likely 2010 or so, I think well see that using Dx10.1 now and beating Ati and Nvidia now would only result in a redesign... besides, Dx11 is meant to be more efficient for new technologies such as ray-tracing...

We can conclude that Larrabee is Dx11.
July 10, 2008 12:31:45 AM

OK, technical stuff aside:

INTEL IS A SINGULAR NOUN, NOT PLURAL.

BAD - "Intel are"
BAD - "Intel were"
GOOD - "Intel is"
GOOD - "Intel was"
a c 126 à CPUs
July 10, 2008 7:04:57 PM

TechnologyCoordinator said:
OK, technical stuff aside:

INTEL IS A SINGULAR NOUN, NOT PLURAL.

BAD - "Intel are"
BAD - "Intel were"
GOOD - "Intel is"
GOOD - "Intel was"


Unless you are Yoda and then it is vice versa.

:kaola: 
!