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Water Cooling Solutions, your thoughts

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  • Heatsinks
  • Water Cooling
  • Overclocking
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April 1, 2009 2:36:42 AM

Here is the setup:
1xCore i7 920 (hoping to overclock to 3.8 or 4 gigahertz, but a mild OC to 3 gigahertz wouldn't be bad)
2x OCZ 3x2 gig sets of DDR3 1333
1xLite-On Blu-Ray Burner
1xEnermax 1050w power supply
1x256gigabyte Patriot Solid State Drive

And the fun part:
1x LGA1366 DFI LANPARTY JR MicroATX motherboard
1x Antec MiniP180 Case

And the really fun part:
2x BFG GTX285 Graphics Cards w/Water Block pre-installed
1x Thermaltake CL-W0121 Drive Bay Water Cooling System
1x Danger Den LGA1366 Water Block
1x Danger Den x58 Chipset Cooling Water Block
10 Feet of Tygon 3603 Tubing (so I have enough to play with)
Feser Coolant

Questions:
1. Does anyone think the Thermaltake Drive Bay system will pump enough to keep all components properly cooled? I've read some say its enough to cool the old QX6800 Quad Cores and SLI'd 8800GTX graphics cards, some say it doesn't flow enough to cool an E2180 when it's off (har har).
2. I'm going to be mounting the Cooling System in the bottom two 5.25 slots of the case. With some careful measuring I've determined that the Cooling System and PSU will fit down there at the bottom (with a little fairy dust and some happy thoughts)(no seriously, it will squeeze in), but what I'm going to have to do to is either modify the front bezel of the case (carefully drilling some holes in it), or go through the top of the 3.5 bays in order to get proper airflow to the cooling fan. Anyone think that's too little Airflow? Thermaltake's product literature says that the few holes they drilled in the front bezel of the Cooling unit will provided enough Airflow when there isn't anything in front of it, so I only should need a little more open space for it to pull from to cool it right?

Oh and now it gets the most fun:
3. I've never setup a water cooling system before. As such, something I don't know is about the fittings for the cooling system: on Danger Den's website, it lists "fittings" as part of the block when I purchase it. Does that mean I'm good without ordering anything else other than whats listed above? Or are those just the fittings to put the hoses around, and then I need another fitting to clamp the hose down to the internal fitting? (see? I can't even say that without making it confusing)

And a final note:
eXtreme PSU Calculator notes that a i7 920 OC'ed to 4 gigahertz will use more watts of power than a i7 965 at 4 gigahertz, even if they both are running at the same voltages. Obviously this means the i7 920 will also be putting off more heat. Is there any merit to that, does an 920 really run more energy than a 965 at the same speeds?

Probably best to mention why I'm not using a larger case:
I've moving into a new Apartment closer to where I work, and my old desk wasn't going to fit (well, it'd take up to much of the spare bedroom to allow my shelves and such to fit in without it all seeming like one giant real-wood cubicle). Hence my old desk is going back to my dad (it was originally my grandfathers, the family isn't letting it go), and I'm getting something a little more modern. IE: without a bottom mounted shelf for the PC. Keeping a large tower on top of the desk is going suck, so in with the small stuff.

More about : water cooling solutions thoughts

a b K Overclocking
April 1, 2009 3:04:28 AM


I've never used a drive bay WCer so I can't say from experience the performance you will achieve with the Thermaltake. Hopefully someone has one will a comparable system so you know for sure.

Hopefully all the reviews are wrong, because it looks like a decent air cooler would work much better than the Thermaltake.

http://techgage.com/article/thermaltake_bigwater_760i/5
http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=1224&pageID=4424
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/coolers/display/therma...

I hope it does what you need it to do.
April 1, 2009 3:25:48 AM

RJR said:
I've never used a drive bay WCer so I can't say from experience the performance you will achieve with the Thermaltake. Hopefully someone has one will a comparable system so you know for sure.

Hopefully all the reviews are wrong, because it looks like a decent air cooler would work much better than the Thermaltake.

http://techgage.com/article/thermaltake_bigwater_760i/5
http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=1224&pageID=4424
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/coolers/display/therma...

I hope it does what you need it to do.


I'd read the techgage article, didn't see the xbitlabs or bjorn3d articles before now though.

The reviews by consumers though are what made me consider it though. Its been speculated before that customer reviews are at times written by manufacturers, and hence false positives. I've seen some bad consumer reviews, but I've seen some good ones too.

Still, xbitlabs has always been a source I had faith in. My main concerns here were also how quite the system is. My Antec 900 is LOUD, and even with all the fans turned down its a little hard to deal with.

Not decided yet on whether or not to keep it though...

So to my original three questions, anyone have some ideas?
Related resources
a c 86 K Overclocking
April 1, 2009 4:36:06 AM

Wow, you need to spend $500+ to cool that all. You major overclock a 920, 940, 965, you WILL need a BIG ASSED RAD to cool that adding in the GPU's. Time for major repricing and education. ThermalTake is like poison to watercoolers. All the stuff is crap for watercooling, all of it. In fact TT doesn't even make a system big to handle just your CPU.

I wish peeps would just spend an hour or two to read the last few posts before spending 30 min typing their post in. Yea YOU.

Here is a link and more, learn and get ready to spend. Or stay air.

You will need a CPU loop for a big OC on your chip, add that pretty hot GPU in ONE loop and you better be looking at this rad, and I'm not kidding.

http://martin.skinneelabs.com/The-Feser-Company-X-Chang...

You need a 220 MINIMUM to cool a CPU like that with overclocks and the othe half of the rad for that GPU.
Nuff said, you can say OMG, I never knew this stuff.
..............................................................................................

Us guys have done the WC thing, there are basics you gotta know. Take a look, don't take it as a diss on you or a rebuttal, look at as a friend saying "Dude, you gotta know what to say and how to communicate".
.......................................
CPU HS $65
GPU HS and air HS for vram and mosfets $95
Radiator $60 min, up to $130
Pump $80
Resiviour $25
Hose, some barbs and clamps etc (min $25, more like $35)

I went top notch and spent close to $600 to cool my CPU and GPU.
First you gotta learn about WC. It's not like walking into Best Buy.
Spend a while (weeks is best for your sanity) at these links.
Look at the hundreds of loops close to your case and components in the stickies, read a couple 50 or so threads over the next week or so, you'll be on the ball to make the right choices and by then know how to put it together.
Not 'Roket Sience', but basic knowledge is required.
And you should spend a few hours on this site reading threads. It's how we learn. Once the goodies show up on your doorstep your on your own.
For your benefit please spend a few days reading a LOT. At the busiest places for WC masters. Guys who have done it for YEARS at OC forums and xtreme forums. It took me a while (I was OCing on air, aftermarket stuff, bios settings, best chipsets etc etc) to learn the language and the tricks to a easy install.

Don't expect miracles or SUPER DOOPER over clocks. What you will get is a quiet system that can handle OC to the max of your hardware IF you buy quality and buy smart. And minor maintenance too, a bonus for the water cooler.

Also while there please read on case mods etc. The radiators are not for small cases, pumps and hose routing, wire management and other things are important. Google your planned case and the word water-cooled in one line. You might get lucky.
.............................

Edit: The next paragraph was from 2008. With the advent of the HOT i7 and bigger GPU's, it has changed. A 200 size MIN for an i7, you want big overclocks, better go 320 sized rad.
...................................

IF you just cool your CPU and your NB if you want, you can get by with a 120.2 sized radiator (RAD). And MAYBE fit in inside depending on your mod skillz. You want to cool your GPU too, you'll need a 120.3 sized rad, and it probably won't fit inside. The rear external rad really works great. No matter what your adding 15lbs to your PC, maybe 20lbs.

Once you got an idea of what is good/bad then start getting your system for WC put together and we'll be glad to help.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/index.php? Not a noob site, but great stickies
http://www.ocforums.com/ My fav, good peeps, know their stuff, less hardcore
http://www.skinneelabs.com/MartinsLiquidLab/
http://www.over-clock.com/ivb/inde [...] opic=20277 A GREAT Europe site
http://www.overclock.net/water-cooling/
http://translate.google.com/transl [...] n&ie=UTF-8 Info on rad testing
http://skinneelabs.com/
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=...

Stores
http://www.dangerden.com/index.php [...] e&Itemid=1
http://www.petrastechshop.com/
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/
http://www.jab-tech.com/





April 1, 2009 4:40:10 PM

I'm running at 4.0 ghz with the Thermalight Ultra 120 Extreme 1366 cooling my system, along with 9 fans in my Antec 1200 Case. After running prime95 for 30 hours the highest temps my pc seen was 71c. Idle the highest my pc seen was 34c. Not sure why people need to watercool, when your not pushing your pc to the limits. With a good lapping of the heatsink your temps should be close to mine.
April 1, 2009 7:40:47 PM

Conundrum, I don't like your tone. Why be an asshole? I have done a lot of reading but that doesn't given me instance knowledge nor does it mean that what I was trying to accomplish is instantly possible. What are you, twelve? The response you gave says it.

Secondly, as I said in the Danger Den forums, I'm thinking of running two radiators instead of one, and I am just wondering about mounting them. An external radiator will not work for me, so I need to mount them internally. But in order to maximize the cooling, I'm going to add shrouds to the top of them. A little trial and error with an old (and corroded, so I still need to order a new one) radiator seems to hold when I mount a shroud to a 120mm ENERMAX UC-MA12. The fan also rates a CFM and lower DBa then the fans on Danger Den, the Yate Loon and Pabst ones, so I think I'm going to stick with the Enermax fans.

Now its just the radiators. PA120.1's is what I was thinking, two of them chained up with their own cooling fans. Should I run them each in separate loops, one set of the CPU and one for the GPUs, or together in one giant loop?
a b K Overclocking
April 1, 2009 10:48:42 PM

scryer_360 said:
Conundrum, I don't like your tone.


Conundrum, (moderator, who ever that is, slaps his hand) now stop trying to tell people to do it the right way when they want to learn the hard way.
April 2, 2009 12:04:48 AM

RJR said:
Conundrum, (moderator, who ever that is, slaps his hand) now stop trying to tell people to do it the right way when they want to learn the hard way.


No, stop being an asshole about it. I didn't ask for smart ass remarks or to be told to read thousands of pages of text AGAIN (who doesn't search for past threads?). I asked simple questions. Instead I get smart ass remarks from someone who isn't interested in helping anyone anyway.

Mod or no, I'm not going to put with that.
a b K Overclocking
April 2, 2009 1:07:38 AM


Well you can do all the name calling you want but it still won't change the fact that the TT won't cool your CPU,2 X Gtx285's and your chipset. It can't even cool the CPU alone.

Conundrum tried to explain this to you but you got defensive and started name calling. Why wouldn't I say you want to learn the hard way, that's what you are doing and nobody is going to talk you out of it.

OH, I'm sorry you said you wanted help. OK, a 120.3 won't even cool all you want in a single loop unless it's one thick rad.

Let us know how the OC works out for you.

a b K Overclocking
April 2, 2009 2:08:54 AM

^+1. Conumdrum is right, I understand why he's a bit pissed off (he's used to the pro guys over at xs,ocf,etc) but he knows what he's talking about.
a c 86 K Overclocking
April 2, 2009 5:02:32 AM

Thanks for the props. I can be an ASS%%ole, you guys know it. There is the right way and the painful uninformed way.

All I said is the OP should at least read a few threads before the big post, he coulda saved him a ton of trouble. And I was a dickhead about it, I'm sorry, yea. Really I coulda phrased it better.

Give me answers now, I don't have the time to read or learn don't work once it's in the door and it's up to you to make it work.

I'm 50 years old, taught electronics for 12 years, managed multi million $$ programs, been working PC's since the Commodore 64 came out, built my first PC with a 386 processor, probably before the OP was born.

Was one of the early users to network the original shareware of DOOM 4 disk floppy shareware version. Got the disks, 30 days later after ordering 8 bit network cards with no software and relying on BBS's for info (kinda before the WWW) I had it running, had to build T-10 network cables and work out a DOS (DOS??) boot disk. Nothing like shooting a close friend in the back with a shotgun before 99% of the world knew you could do that.

TWo PA 120.1 to cool all of that? You need to learn about wattage and what a rad can actally cool. I'm putting a PA 120.3 on my 965, and a Feser 120.3 for my two GTX 280's. Two loops, seperate pumps etc. You go big with the hardware, you gotta go big on the watercool.

http://www.skinneelabs.com/MartinsLiquidLab/

Lastly, best of luck. Yea a rude awakening to what you need to know. Don't take it so hard, spend the time, (took me months before I went water once I began to read).
a c 331 K Overclocking
April 2, 2009 1:21:01 PM

Seriously? Someone asks for help and gets the information, and then gets mad because its not what they want to hear? Yeah Conumdrum comes off with a pretty harsh reply many times, but only because people fail to actually see what they are missing...or refuse to. I realize that no one wants to do days and days of reading and research, but how else are you going to learn what you need for yourself? We have become a society of spoon-feeding and giving people what they want...right now. Grow up and act like an adult. You are going to be spending several hundred dollars on a cooling solution, but asking complete strangers 'what do I need'. When you buy a TV, do you let the monkeys at Best Buy tell you 'what to get'? Or a car dealer to tell you which car you 'really need'? I would hope not...it's called being an informed consumer.
April 2, 2009 6:02:06 PM

ROFL someone asked a watercooling question in another thread and Conumdrum posted the exact same thing for the other guy... you know what his response was?

Quote:
@Conumdrum

wow, what an eye opener, thanks so much this really helps me out a ton!

By the way, my future rig will consist of the following parts:


HAHAHA
a b K Overclocking
April 2, 2009 9:12:12 PM

Quote:
We have become a society of spoon-feeding and giving people what they want...right now. Grow up and act like an adult. You are going to be spending several hundred dollars on a cooling solution, but asking complete strangers 'what do I need'. When you buy a TV, do you let the monkeys at Best Buy tell you 'what to get'? Or a car dealer to tell you which car you 'really need'? I would hope not...it's called being an informed consumer.

Sadly, we have indeed become a society of uninformed consumers. There are some who are willing to learn and there are some who aren't. We have also become a society (mostly European/American) where people expect that they have every right be be spoon fed. This is WHY people don't learn. For example, I HATE it when my teachers just give us the answers and don't tell how the answers came to be. No wonder the Indians/Asians are pwning us with their knowledge (esp. in math/science). Btw, I'm not trying to offend any one but this is the truth to a certain extent. There are other factors but this spoon feeding is basically one of the main problems.
a c 86 K Overclocking
April 3, 2009 4:44:59 AM

Yep Shadow, you kinda hit it. I'm a PC hobby person. It's a hobby, not a job. Hobbies are the quiet moment where you get to think what you want to do, then do it. It's a slow process and meant to be enjoyable.

Building a PC that fast and it needs to be cool "because WC is neat and I want to do it now" isn't a hobby. It's a soon to be cascade of mistakes. On OC Forums, someone brand new was asking about adding a TEC to the side of a res. Plastic res with a sub ambient TEC and plastic is a POOR heat conductor. OMG. At least read the sub forum on TECS first for a while.

I just can't accept uninformed peeps wanting to jump on the WC bandwagon and just do it all done. It's going to cause lots of pain to the user. It's not rocket science but there are things you gotta learn first, and the first lesson shouldn't be wasting $300 on a junk setup or ruining a $400 video card.

If you want water in the PC, you better get the hobby attitude or it ain't gonna be pretty.
a b K Overclocking
April 3, 2009 5:11:42 PM

Quote:

I just can't accept uninformed peeps wanting to jump on the WC bandwagon and just do it all done. It's going to cause lots of pain to the user. It's not rocket science but there are things you gotta learn first, and the first lesson shouldn't be wasting $300 on a junk setup or ruining a $400 video card.

If you want water in the PC, you better get the hobby attitude or it ain't gonna be pretty.

True that!
April 6, 2009 8:56:27 PM

Wow, lots of hubris here.

Quote:
(insert hubris here) ...the fact that the TT won't cool your CPU,2 X Gtx285's and your chipset. It can't even cool the CPU alone.


That is all anyone had to say the first time. I've read countless posts, many unfortunately only 2 threads long, about watercooling and all someone had to say was that there wasn't any way the TT would do the job. Its not a question everyone has asked it's not an answer that was readily apparent.

Quote:
I wish peeps would just spend an hour or two to read the last few posts before spending 30 min typing their post in. Yea YOU.


This is Conundrum's response that set me off. I've read his pre-packaged (you have that saved to a Word Document?) responses in multiple threads, I'd seen that same spiel. Instead he comes off like a twelve year old with his "Yea YOU" statement, which I hope it's not to hard for you to see why I take offense at this.


Quote:
Seriously? Someone asks for help and gets the information, and then gets mad because its not what they want to hear?


No, it's because he was an ass about it. Imagine you walk into a bar in a new town, order a Miller, then the patron next to you throw's his bottle off the table and yell's at you how you don't know a thing wah-wah-wah. Wouldn't a nicer way to say it be "just to let you know, this is St. Louis and everyone drinks Budweiser?" I'm more than willing to learn, but my first foot in the door and a "hello" is met with "talk to the hand."

Quote:
When you buy a TV, do you let the monkeys at Best Buy tell you 'what to get'?

Has to be the worst comment yet. I'm asking this at a resource that is NOT owned by a water cooling company, or any other PC maker for that matter. Your comment amounts to say I read Consumer Reports and am now uneducated.

I think the major problem here is that I've never done this before, I will ask some questions which have been answered before, will ask some questions that have been answered but the context or situation is slightly different, and that the community here is full of old codgers without an ounce of will to actually pass down anything they know, instead lambasting newcomers as brainless idiots and telling them to (although is slightly more polite language) "**** off and go read misc. threads that may or may not contain any answers for you."

It'd be alright if Conundrum suggests some links, but he doesn't have to do it with the attitude that "my time is too important to waste helping you, why do you ask this OMFG NOOB." If I wanted a 4chan response, I'd ask this on 4chan.
a b K Overclocking
April 7, 2009 12:23:39 AM

:pfff:  :pfff:  :pfff:  :pfff:  All you are doing OP is putting gasoline to the fire. :pfff:  :pfff: 

Chill.

Remember, every thing you do on the net has no affect on people you don't know. You are taking what people said too emotionally.
a c 86 K Overclocking
April 7, 2009 2:57:13 AM

scryer_360 said:
Wow, lots of hubris here.

Quote:
(insert hubris here) ...the fact that the TT won't cool your CPU,2 X Gtx285's and your chipset. It can't even cool the CPU alone.


That is all anyone had to say the first time. I've read countless posts, many unfortunately only 2 threads long, about watercooling and all someone had to say was that there wasn't any way the TT would do the job. Its not a question everyone has asked it's not an answer that was readily apparent.

Quote:
I wish peeps would just spend an hour or two to read the last few posts before spending 30 min typing their post in. Yea YOU.


This is Conundrum's response that set me off. I've read his pre-packaged (you have that saved to a Word Document?) responses in multiple threads, I'd seen that same spiel. Instead he comes off like a twelve year old with his "Yea YOU" statement, which I hope it's not to hard for you to see why I take offense at this.


Quote:
Seriously? Someone asks for help and gets the information, and then gets mad because its not what they want to hear?


No, it's because he was an ass about it. Imagine you walk into a bar in a new town, order a Miller, then the patron next to you throw's his bottle off the table and yell's at you how you don't know a thing wah-wah-wah. Wouldn't a nicer way to say it be "just to let you know, this is St. Louis and everyone drinks Budweiser?" I'm more than willing to learn, but my first foot in the door and a "hello" is met with "talk to the hand."

Quote:
When you buy a TV, do you let the monkeys at Best Buy tell you 'what to get'?

Has to be the worst comment yet. I'm asking this at a resource that is NOT owned by a water cooling company, or any other PC maker for that matter. Your comment amounts to say I read Consumer Reports and am now uneducated.

I think the major problem here is that I've never done this before, I will ask some questions which have been answered before, will ask some questions that have been answered but the context or situation is slightly different, and that the community here is full of old codgers without an ounce of will to actually pass down anything they know, instead lambasting newcomers as brainless idiots and telling them to (although is slightly more polite language) "**** off and go read misc. threads that may or may not contain any answers for you."

It'd be alright if Conundrum suggests some links, but he doesn't have to do it with the attitude that "my time is too important to waste helping you, why do you ask this OMFG NOOB." If I wanted a 4chan response, I'd ask this on 4chan.



Sure. Whatever. I do this many times a week. I see peeps like you ALL the time. CLUELESS. I direct peeps to sites that work the issues each person has. If you need your hand held to learn and would rather have a 'Best Buy' experiance, so be it.

I could spend the time to coddle one forum member, but after 50+ it gets old. OMG, your not the first. I'll be a hardbutt and say you better learn instead of 30 clueless questions that peeps will ignore. Again, your not the first by a long shot. No effort, no learnie, capish?

Yes, its one of a FEW cut n pastes I use. I get more thanks and cudos on many boards for posting that. If you need,
'It's not enough, I want my hand held', then I suggest ..................................

I know Dell sells pre made systems at 2x he cost that you can buy. Or use your 'noggin' for a change.

Took me three months to learn about WC and found my own links, I have a brain. I cut 4 weeks off of that can you live with 60 days?

I'm 50 years old, modded a C64 and built my first 386 probably before you were born.

Hope it helps, your gonna learn if you wanna WC. Or spend $$ on crap and spend more, or fail and destroy your PC.
a c 331 K Overclocking
April 7, 2009 7:31:04 PM

Before you attack all of us for 'not helping you', I'm sure you have read the countless other threads about 'tell me what I should get instead of learning myself', otherwise, you would've had an idea of where to start. You go and tell us that you have done your research reading threads , but here you are complaining that you did that and still don't know what to do. Either you did read and totally disregarded information or you didn't actually read them.

The whole point behind my 'Best Buy monkeys' comment didn't lie with us having anything to do with being associated with THG at all. It has to do with people not knowing what they want or need, but trusting complete strangers to tell them the answers without finding out themselves. Just because you read Consumer Reports doesn't mean you are an informed consumer...it just means you knew WHERE to begin your research. The uninformed consumer takes 'Consumer Reports' as a Bible and calls it a day...then goes off and buys whatever they are suggesting...instead of finding out if it is truly a good fit for them, the individual.
a c 86 K Overclocking
April 8, 2009 4:37:12 AM

Rubix is a hard ass! Your Best Buy Monkey is very true. Head over to the Onion.com and watch the video about Sony's new Piece of &^%^, it's priceless.
!