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10 REASONS NOT TO BUY THE GTX280:

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June 18, 2008 3:05:08 PM

10 REASONS NOT TO BUY THE GTX280:

Well I recently wrote a blog entitled "Dear Nvidia, what the hell is wrong with you?" and upon it's completion I was somewhat bombarded by people who felt that the medical usage and new CUDA, PRO'S of this new graphics card (GTX200 series) was far important or outweighed the CON"S of it from a cost vs. performance or (gamers want this much speed for this much money equation.)'

What many of the writers immediately assumed was that I was disregarding the medical and scientific applications for which this new technology could be used for, and several said that my words were selfish and focused soley on achieving a couple more frames per second in some video game.

My response to them is based off of logic and reasoning. You see I do not entirely feel that Nvidia is putting all it can into it's graphics cards as of late. Many people felt cheated and or ripped off once they bought there new G92 processor based graphics cards only to find them barely faster or slower than the 8800 GTX, and GTS from now over 18 months ago.

I will state that I just don't think as far as the gamers market is concerned, when a 650.00 dollar "enthusiast level" graphics card is released, we should be benchmarking folding at home, as the majority(I'd estimate 95%) of the users will never actually use it in that context.
Nvidia has several options for the medical and scientific community that offer much better support than a gamers card. Their new TESLA products are exactly what they created to combat this need. Not to mention you can buy a GTX280 (X 4) single blade server, with 16 Gb of memory (4 Gb Per core for this very purpose.)The GTX280 retail market card couldve benefited a little more from maybe 2Gb of ram per card instead of only 1GB. They are already doing 4GB for the professional side of the market. Heck they couldve went with GDDR5 instead of the same ole same ole, they've been using for 3 years now.

This card was intended to be a new standard setting performance bar, and instead what we have received is a product that is on all accounts hard for many to open their wallet for.

The 8800GTX is still considered to be a great investment based soley on the fact that it has held it's own through almost 2 years of gaming and graphics advances, and it is the "Bar" that must be exceeded when comparing graphics cards performance from one generation to another.

But my discontent stems from the fact that Nvidia is currently sitting on graphics technology far greater than what they are making available to the public. (4 Gb instead of 1 Gb for instance) referenced above.

For instance when the G92 was released, it showed a massive improvement in cooling capability, now able to do single slot designs, and maintained almost the same performance as the G80. Some of the cards were close to the performance or were even slightly better than the 8800 GTX. But at no time did any 8800GTX owner feel that they had to go out and buy a new graphics card from a performance improvement stand point. Maybe they wanted cooler systems, or to free up a PCI slot, but the upgrade would have garnered little to no results in game over what they currently had. Especially if they were running an SLI setup, to upgrade to a G92 Series card or cards for that matter made virtually no sense.

But remember back at the benchmarks when the 5 series went to the 6 series Nvidia cards, and then from 6 to the 7 series, and 7 to 8 series. Each time there was a substantial gain in graphics capability, we will call it "faster -bigger- better", in every respect. The Gpu improvement from one generation to the next was usually 75%-100% gains in peformance level in game. Benchmarks showed this, in every generation.

Yet recently we have only been receiving, 20% to 30% gains at each cards new release, though the pricing has not dropped upon release from one high end card to the next, just the performance improvement ratio's.

Now as a gamer, I like many of you don't want to have to keep upgrading every 6 months to a new graphics card especially if it only give a marginal improvement over heat and power expenditures.
But this GTX 280 release is utterly ridiculous, and my examples for this are as follows:

10 REASONS NOT TO BUY THE GTX280:

#1: This card actually produces more heat, than the previous generation.

#2: The fan is considerably louder at all levels.

#3: The power consumption has been recorded at record high levels.

#4: The price upon release is 650.00 Dollars. You can buy (4) 8800GT's for this cost, and only two of those will outperform this card.

#5: A 9800GTX currently runs about 250.00-270.00 dollars. The GTX 280 shows on average a 30% increase in performance in game over this card. However you could easily SLI or TRI-SLI the 9800GTX and far exceed the performance of one GTX280. For even less cost.

#6: The 9800GX2 still outperforms this card in many games and is usually tied with it for any others. The 9800 GX2 is dropping in price rapidly. It will be 400.00 soon, and maybe lower.

#7: Nvidia is already working on the replacement for the card with a smaller better cooled core( which also equals higher clock speeds) in the upcoming revision, Remember the 8800GT? What happened to all the owners who bought 8800GTS 640 and 320 mb cards.

#8: The 4870 is quoted by ATI to be only slightly lower in the performance department than the GTX280, and they havent even released the 4870X2. This will put ATI on top again, just like it did when they released the 3870X2. The best part is that it will release at 150 dollars lower cost than the GTX280.

#9: Any of us currently using 8800GTX's (Single or SLI'd) 8800GT's SLI'd, 8800GTS 512mb,(Single or SLI'd) (9600GT SLI'd) or any of the 9800's will see little to no improvement over their current setup, not to mention that some of us may have to upgrade other various parts in our systems to get to the performance levels we would want. Like Going to Sli GTX 280's would most likely require a power supply upgrade for many as well. This takes the cost from 1300.00 (for SLI'd GTX280's) to over 1600.00 for the added PSU to handle the juice.

#10: All of these examples leads to the biggest one, the price per pixel pumping power is just not good deal for the marginal improvements the card will provide. Nvidia will see that it has shot itself in the foot with this one, and once ATI comes back with the "Sucker Punch" (4870X2) Nvidia will have to recover from it's bruised ego. Maybe next time they will actually put something on the table worth the bid for top spot.

NVIDIA stop sitting on your hands watching ATI trying to catch up. They are about to hit the Nitrous button, and pass you up.

More about : reasons buy gtx280

June 18, 2008 3:13:03 PM

:sleep: 

No one is forcing you to buy this card...why all the ranting?


P.S. Stop being such a troll
June 18, 2008 3:14:57 PM

haha to bad for you nviidia lovers 4850 here i come!
Related resources
June 18, 2008 3:22:47 PM

Hey SpinachEater,

It's not a rant, there are many people right now who are not sure which way they should go with their money. I wrote this to if anything help those people making an educated decision on what they should do.

However since you obviously feel the need to be the first basher of a thread, I guess you have never read any reviews of products or technology right? I guess you have never written anything that was of concern right? Well this is a big issue right now, and if you don't want to read people's opinions about technology or computer parts, them don't visit Tom's Forums, because it's filled with the same kind of stuff you see written above you.

Thanks - DragonCyber
a b U Graphics card
June 18, 2008 3:25:26 PM

Quote:
No one is forcing you to buy this card...why all the ranting?


Exactly. If you want nVidia to 'get the point' of what you are ranting about...just don't buy it. Supply and demand, my friend. If it really is that bad, they will have to scramble and come up with a better product, correct?

Yes, stop being such a troll. There is no point to this thread when the exact same information was described in the Tom's reviews for these cards. Maybe they can find a way to slap you with plagiarism.
June 18, 2008 3:28:04 PM

Now I see whats wrong with you Spinach Eater. Your 3 years old and borrowing daddies computer for a moment huh?

Once again if you don't like what I've written, then don't read it. That simple
a b U Graphics card
June 18, 2008 3:30:18 PM

If you don't like what we respond with, don't reply back.

And how are we supposed to know if we don't like what you have written, if we first haven't read it?

Now you are messing with laws of space and time continuum.
a b U Graphics card
June 18, 2008 3:32:24 PM

Chill dude.
a b U Graphics card
June 18, 2008 3:35:06 PM

LOL. :) 

I'm good. Just wanted to play Devil's Advocate.
June 18, 2008 3:35:19 PM

@DragonRetard: You are wasting all of our time.

@SpinachEater: Great post (the spray)
June 18, 2008 3:36:13 PM

I wrote this in the hopes of helping someone who was teetering on the edge of making the decision to buy or not to buy the GTX280, and once again if your not that person then this message isnt for you.

Thanks- DragonCyber
June 18, 2008 3:36:49 PM

I am fine with your intentions but you respond with such distaste towards NV to a level to where it is like they have stabbed you in the back or have committed a crime. And yes, I do read reviews but typically the ones that are educational and as non-biased as possible.

Your "review" has no new information what so ever. When hardware first launches, it is overpriced. It happened in the past, it happens now, and it will continue to happen in the future. You act so shocked and horrified at this like it is the first time it has ever happened.

The card is hot? That is your reason not to buy it? Come on, get back with reality. The GPU is the size of an oil tanker...did you think it was going to be cooler than their previous chips?

Hands down I love to hear of people's opinions but when they come across as polarized rants they usually aren't worth the time. Just be more mature about it and I will stop antagonizing you. Cheers.
a b U Graphics card
June 18, 2008 3:36:53 PM

ati is gonna have fun this yr.
=]
June 18, 2008 3:39:46 PM

Why did it take a "Top 10" list to explain the same thing over and over again? That this card is overpriced and there are better price/performance solutions. Of course this is the same thing that happens every time a new generation of any type of hardware is released; you get a decent bump in performance but for high price tag. Nothing new here.
June 18, 2008 3:39:51 PM

Why would any company put everything they have into a product and sell it at a reasonable price point? The argument is just stupid. This isn't communism.

They've put out a card that performs well enough to sell to the enthusiast market where they can cash in on the high release price. Since they have no competition in that market they simply need to be slightly better than available options. Increasing performance more than they need to puts their mid-range segment in danger which would be a terrible move.

You're complaining that they are already working on a new and better card... Anyone who builds a non-disposable product does this. If you don't offer a better replacement, then you don't sell products. That's like complaining about Nehalem, because Intel has already started work on their next future architecture.

ATI isn't going to catch up in any meaningful way. Nvidia has their logo stamped on practically every game box out there, and one of their cards in the majority of gaming machines. Even if ATI makes a card that outperforms them, which they won't do since they are shooting for the midrange price/performance segment, it wouldn't matter.

They'll never beat the brand recognition that Nvidia has built up in the last few years with a single series of cards. A 4870X2 that outperforms the GTX280 is probably still going to sell fewer units.
June 18, 2008 3:41:31 PM

Every article I have read about the 280 ends with everyone dissatisfied and bitching...

FACT:
The 280 is a single GPU solution which is outperforming dual GPU solutions in a lot of tests, and very close in the tests it has placed second. It is a lot better then people make it out to be, everyone just expected the second coming. Also some of use water to cool our rigs, that fan being loud is irrelevant…

If this card was $350 everyone and there bloody dog would buy one.

Enough already.
June 18, 2008 3:44:10 PM

Condense your list. Points 1-3 are all related... more electricity = more heat = more noise... we get it. Points 4-6 all relate to value... we get that too. Points 7-8... we get it... there's always something new coming out. Points 9-10... we don't ALWAYS have to upgrade just because something new is released.

There. 4 reasons from your 10.
June 18, 2008 3:46:46 PM

Dragon, I see that you have SLI 8800GT....you should be happy that your investment has such longevity.

P.S. You have DDR3 and you are complaining about the price of the 280?
June 18, 2008 3:47:35 PM

rubix_1011 said:
If you don't like what we respond with, don't reply back.

And how are we supposed to know if we don't like what you have written, if we first haven't read it?

Now you are messing with laws of space and time continuum.


I don't care who you are, that is funny. :lol: 
June 18, 2008 3:47:57 PM

I for one like hearing other peoples summaries of the the current state of the vcard market, stop calling him a troll!!

I must say I agree with most of this, but he forgot to mention that a
GTX 280 (Gx2??) is bound to show up....which will, using brute force, most likely retake the crown from the 4870x2 because as Ati stated, the 4870 will be slower than the GTX 280....and SLi and CrossFire scale about the same??

(Dont quote me on that)

...mind you id go 4870 over the GTX280 any day as long as its within 10% of the GTX280 and is greater than 10% cheaper.....which im sure it will be at least 25% cheaper.....


Id love to switch bak to ATI after the 8800 series....PWNING

(Best value card ever = 8800gt 512 :D  )
June 18, 2008 3:50:06 PM

dragoncyber said:
Hi I like to repeat 2 points 5x times and say it is a top 10 list. I like to waste your time.

June 18, 2008 3:56:28 PM

Alot of Fan Boys out today.....LOL
June 18, 2008 3:56:47 PM

dragoncypher, you apparently struck a nerve here. Everyone is WAAYYY too wound up about this issue for rational discussion. There must be a lot of emotion concerning NVIDIA/ATI...

I found your post to be pretty matter-of-fact and even-keeled. It is just the kind of post that a forum like this should contain, and just the kind of dialog we should be having. And no, the tone of the reviews I have read so far were not negative about the 260/280. They certainly had some questions about price/performance, but you came out and said what the pro review sites have generally treated with kid gloves; NVIDIA got lazy. Can't say they dropped the ball, but they were certainly exercising suboptimization here, and probably have been for the last couple refreshes.

I currently have an ATI, but almost bought an 8800GT, and have somewhat regretted it. I am not tied to either camp (although my P35 favors ATI, if Crossfire is in my future), I just want competition so that both camps push the envelope on successive designs.

I may or may not agree with all the points in your post, but I appreciate it and the thought behind it. I can't say the same for the comments on it. I have little patience for the "then don't buy it" crowd; it is the same boneheaded analysis as the idiots who chant "USA: Love it or Leave It".

SpinichEater, I hereby call you out: I have enjoyed reading your posts over time, and you typically have something interesting/insightful to add to each post. This was not one of them.
June 18, 2008 3:58:25 PM

Man leave this man alone, he is a consumer, and his opinions matter. We should discuss the points, not attack the OP. Anyway, yes, it is true, just imagine, did the 7800GTX ever beat the 6800Ultra SLI? I dont believe so. The 7900GTX SLI was beating the 8800GTX in the games at the time. So the fact that the GTX 280 can hold its own aginst last gen's highend in SLi/CFm is impressive. If Nvidia never released the scrappy 9800GX2, then the GTX 280 would look a lot better. I do agree with the OP in osme points, 650$ for performace that we can already match and exceed at much lower prices is what turns ppl off about this card.
June 18, 2008 3:58:38 PM

Dragoncyber, you summed up the reality of this card in a nice list. I think the main point (to summarize) is that the card is too expensive. Many people are willing to put up with the extra heat, energy, etc.. but not at that price. ATI's got a good thing going releasing their next gen cards at an affordable price from the get-go.
June 18, 2008 4:01:33 PM

Thanks Husky, I appreciate it.
June 18, 2008 4:03:07 PM

Hi, I want to thank dragon for this thread, I am a noob when it comes to this stuff, and I ordered 2x G280's yesterday from newegg for $1312.00. I was worried by another post saying they would be sold out for a long time.... I read dragons post today and the 8800gt thing made a lot of sense to me, so I cancelled my order before it was shipped out! Thank you for saving me the money I was spending poorly, as I am not rich and it was a credit card purchase.

Thank you.
June 18, 2008 4:04:16 PM

Thanks to everyone who is responding with wisdom and maturity.
June 18, 2008 4:04:27 PM

ouch dude, avoid that, dotn fall into debts to bankers, they are the worst!
a c 110 U Graphics card
June 18, 2008 4:04:51 PM

anyone remember the 8800GTX release. same thing high price/performance ratio.

This is how it happens. It will have its place. I am personally waiting to see what ati comes out with(let them price war it a bit).
June 18, 2008 4:04:52 PM

grieve said:
Every article I have read about the 280 ends with everyone dissatisfied and bitching...

FACT:
The 280 is a single GPU solution which is outperforming dual GPU solutions in a lot of tests, and very close in the tests it has placed second. It is a lot better then people make it out to be, everyone just expected the second coming. Also some of use water to cool our rigs, that fan being loud is irrelevant…

If this card was $350 everyone and there bloody dog would buy one.

Enough already.


I think the problem...if what nvidia said was true, is that they were thinking that there was gonna be a lot more physics in games right now, so yeah, it does suck...based on current software, maybe if we had more games like that tom clancy deal that used the Ageia card, the gtx would look better.

Oh and the fan might be too loud because water cooling sucks :p ...hehe I never have to worry if AIR leaks on my system :p  ;)  ...lol.
:D 

June 18, 2008 4:06:07 PM

Stove ,

You are the reason I wrote this thread. Thanks for making it worthwhile.
June 18, 2008 4:06:34 PM

Do you work for ATI??????
June 18, 2008 4:06:51 PM

(Best value card ever = 8800gt 512 :D  )[/quotemsg]

No Way !! My X850XT still rocking ma boat !! And yes it can run crysis !!!
a c 110 U Graphics card
June 18, 2008 4:07:10 PM

royalcrown said:
I never have to worry if AIR leaks on my system :p  ;)  ...lol


Post of the day
June 18, 2008 4:08:00 PM

Ultimately, I enjoy how a good GPU improves my gaming experience.

But from spectator perspective, I get a lot of perverse enjoyment from:

1) watching fanboys of any (ATI, AMD, NVIDIA, Intel, OCZ, Creative, etc., etc., ) camp squirm when faced with commentary/evidence/events contrary to their camp; and
2) watching any camp try to reconcile that their opponent may have one-upped them, even if only temporarily.

E.g., it was fun to watch the release of the 3870x2, and the couple weeks that it was at the top of the GPU heap. Those of us who didn't really care either way, knew that the position wouldn't last, and that the card really wasn't even practical or realistic.

Boy was it fun to watch to everyone squirm though!
June 18, 2008 4:09:04 PM

husky mctarflash said:


SpinichEater, I hereby call you out: I have enjoyed reading your posts over time, and you typically have something interesting/insightful to add to each post. This was not one of them.



Sorry to disappoint but I am not taking this thread seriously. Plus it is a slow day at work so reading dragon's predictable reactions is just my form of entertainment for today.

Dragon, I actually agree with your points but your OP is naive.
June 18, 2008 4:10:04 PM

No I don't work for ATI..HAHA... Actually my systems all used Nvidia cards.

I have run 5 series , 6 series , 7 series, and now 8 series nvidia cards for at least the last 5 years. they have always given me bang for the buck, thats why I am so disappointed with the recent turn of events.
June 18, 2008 4:17:52 PM

I'm just messin with 'ya Greive...but I don't like water because of that reason really. I never wanna have to scrape blue or green goop out of my slots.
June 18, 2008 4:20:16 PM

grieve said:
Every article I have read about the 280 ends with everyone dissatisfied and bitching...

FACT:
The 280 is a single GPU solution which is outperforming dual GPU solutions in a lot of tests, and very close in the tests it has placed second. It is a lot better then people make it out to be, everyone just expected the second coming. Also some of use water to cool our rigs, that fan being loud is irrelevant…

If this card was $350 everyone and there bloody dog would buy one.

Enough already.


+1

Best,

3Ball
June 18, 2008 4:28:32 PM

OP, sorry you got jumped by some negative-brigade momos from the start. My guess is more people have enjoyed reading this post then not enjoyed it...but somehow the bashers responded first. Ignore them.

Yea, nVidia I don't think got lazy...the GTX280 whoops the crap out of any other SINGLE GPU CARD. There is no questioning this, look at the benchmarks.

But as a consumer, for the price, it just doesn't make sense. nVidia engineers: congrat.z! nVidia market/price setting people: grow a brain! Don't release a super-expensive card without looking at it's performance in relation to OTHER CARDS! ****, other cards of your OWN BRAND! LOL.
June 18, 2008 4:28:43 PM

You can get better performance with 2 x 8800gt that cost less than $300. Which would net you $350 in saving over 280gtx.
a b U Graphics card
June 18, 2008 4:29:36 PM

+2 for 3Ball
June 18, 2008 4:30:23 PM

grieve said:
Every article I have read about the 280 ends with everyone dissatisfied and bitching...

FACT:
The 280 is a single GPU solution which is outperforming dual GPU solutions in a lot of tests, and very close in the tests it has placed second. It is a lot better then people make it out to be, everyone just expected the second coming. Also some of use water to cool our rigs, that fan being loud is irrelevant…

If this card was $350 everyone and there bloody dog would buy one.

Enough already.


But it's not $350 is it. No one wants a $650 under performing card.
June 18, 2008 4:46:37 PM

only reason ppl hate this card is because they cant afford it.


PNY is selling it for 599$ with 50$ rebate.

shows that this CARD WILL DROP IN PRICE SOON.


then ppl will stop ranting about it.
June 18, 2008 4:50:27 PM

dragoncyber said:
No I don't work for ATI..HAHA... Actually my systems all used Nvidia cards.

I have run 5 series , 6 series , 7 series, and now 8 series nvidia cards for at least the last 5 years. they have always given me bang for the buck, thats why I am so disappointed with the recent turn of events.

Um, then didn't you realize the same exact thing happened with the first release of every series of NVidia cards? Like I said before, nothing new.
June 18, 2008 4:51:46 PM

i personally enjoyed your post :) 

+1

because 650$ is ALOT of money for any of us (95%), given this day and age.

if i was a person new to computers and didn't know which card to settle on, i would have wanted to stumble across your post and read about the GTX280 before i hand over more than half a grand on a card. when i read your post, i knew you were going to get a LOT of flames, but i knew why u wrote it and i could see it from your point of view that you think its not the performance level Nvidia should have given us at the bleeding edge price range. and because of that, you wanted people to know to save money, not because your some sort of fan boy :) 
June 18, 2008 4:53:18 PM

Oh boy, quit it AMD/ATI fanboys lol -- Who cares about the whole price performance right now, once again these are poop drivers, most every card when released has the bad drivers, it has more horsepower under the hood, just not allocating it properly is the problem! - 8800GTX was nice and it was a VERY solid product, but it's time is coming to an end lol -- It's only fair to compare single with single cards, not dual slot cards -- 9800GX2 yeah it's in the price range, but once again - dual slot (IT WAS EXPENSIVE WHEN IT WAS RELEASED AS WELL) lol -- Let the GTX260 come out, watch prices drop, then watch 4870X2 come out, EVERYTHING WILL DROP! Just be patient then make judgements :p 
June 18, 2008 4:54:09 PM

aznguy0028 said:
i personally enjoyed your post :) 

+1

because 650$ is ALOT of money for any of us (95%), given this day and age.

if i was a person new to computers and didn't know which card to settle on, i would have wanted to stumble across your post and read about the GTX280 before i hand over more than half a grand on a card. when i read your post, i knew you were going to get a LOT of flames, but i knew why u wrote it and i could see it from your point of view that you think its not the performance level Nvidia should have given us at the bleeding edge price range. and because of that, you wanted people to know to save money, not because your some sort of fan boy :) 



My point extactly. ppl ranting cuz of the price. dont rant about the GPU it self then. it will drop in price in time. or get a job and buy the card.
!