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Nvidia vs. ATI Price Wars: Isn't it AWESOME!!

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June 20, 2008 7:00:37 AM

I've just read several reviews of the new 4850, and it kicks some major ass ...all for under 200.00...Strange how immediately Nvidia lowered the cost of it's 9800GTX's to 199.99 right away.

Worst part is the 4850 beats the 9800GTX in almost all the benchmarks, and when Xfired even stomps the 9800 GX2 and the GTX280 into the ground. Again for less than 400.00 dollars.

The price wars have begun and Nvidia is going to lose this one badly I'm afraid.. Just think..the 4870 and 4870X2's are not even out yet, and they are both supposed to release cheaper than the GTX280.
Heck the 4850 was nipping at the GTX280's Heels in most of the benchmarks by less then 10 to 15 Frames a second. That means the 4870 should really give it a run for it's money or better...maybe beat it.

Another fun fact is that now Nvidia is releasing a new 9800GTX+ edition with a new 55nm process, for better cooling and faster core clocks. And it too is supposed to retail for 200-220 usd. Amazing, buy three of them..Tri-SLI them, and out perform everything for less than one GTX280...Awesome!! This is such a great time for gamers and graphics enthusiasts!!

I have been looking on all the major etailers and hardly any customer reviews are up yet for the GTX280...I think it's cuz no one is buying them at that ridiculous price!! when the 9800GX2 came out there were tons of customer reviews the next day!!

I love price wars, this is exactly what we needed as gamers..NEW CARDS for everyone!! I am so smiling as I'm typing this, cuz I am imagining (2) 4870X2's dancing in my head in CrossFire...

That is of course after I sell my 790I Ultra board. I have been praying for a decent Nvidia card to show up and got Duped instead. My 8800GT's in Sli will have to hold me Over until the 4870X2 shows it's ugly head then I will decide. But for the first time since the 8800GTX came out, I am actually excited about the new graphics cards coming.

I hope everyone else is enjoying this as much as me!!
June 20, 2008 7:24:20 AM

Woah...9800GTX's at 199? Where? How? I was considering stepping up to the GTX 280 because it was going to cost me the same to buy another 9800GTX for SLI plus it had the 512 bus on it...but seeing how I have Tri SLI I could buy two more 9800GTX's for TRI SLI!!! Any idea if the 55nm 9800GTX will be SLI compatible with the current ones?
a b U Graphics card
June 20, 2008 7:43:10 AM

I think you people have this idea that the GTX280 is going to stay at its current price point. The only reason it is there is because it is still the most powerful single card available on the market. Once the competition releases a more powerful card, or one that is very close, the price will drop. Ripping off the consumer while the competition has no card available that can compete is completely logical.
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June 20, 2008 8:11:36 AM

Well, I have the same think. Thank to share your thought.
June 20, 2008 8:38:19 AM

just reading a few reviews and the 4850 is as fast as a 9800GTX theres only a few frames(2-3fps) in each benchmark, with the 98 winning some and the 4850 winning some. its not that impressive tbh.

infact GRID is the only game with a big difference the GTX 280 is top then the 4850 then the 9800GTX.. in FEAR the 4850 wins out, but in GHOST2 98 wins out.

Strangely because of the lacklustre performance of these cards its going to push people like myself to go to SLI, if i buy another 8800GTX for SLI i will have something faster than a GTX280 AND a 4850.. whereas in the past the single fastest card was faster than the previous SLI.
a b U Graphics card
June 20, 2008 9:02:50 AM

Id wait. The reason Im saying to wait is this. There mau be an active bridge for thr R700 (4870x2) + the GDDR5 which may hekp in the cards useage of memory and communication between cores. If they both are true (rumored at this time) the R700 will kill anything out there in quadfire. It scores over 12000 in Vantage x, this we know, now it just comes down to effectiveness. If its seen/used as just two cards, you wont have the diminishing returns seen in other setups higher than a 2 card normal sli/cf setup
June 20, 2008 10:08:34 AM

well, i have until late july to step up to the gtx260 from my 9800gtx. i hope there are some price drops for it.
June 20, 2008 10:10:22 AM

makotech, just get another 9800GTX and SLI them.... of course im assuming you have the equipment. it will be cheaper and preform better.
June 20, 2008 10:25:45 AM

Can the FSB on Intel motherboards handle two HD 4870 ?

PCI Express 20. x16 is 8 GB/s and two is 16 GB/s

The FSB can handle 12 GB/s if it is clocked to 400 MHz. Besides sending data to the GPU's the FSB also need to transfer data to memory
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
June 20, 2008 12:07:25 PM

This is awesome for everyone, even if you don't want an ATI card. Now we won't have another repeat of the 8800 pricing where it stayed >$500 for years (it seemed, at least). This lowers the price of other great cards like the 9800 so people can SLI those like an earlier poster (and I think this is a great idea, BTW)
June 20, 2008 12:22:25 PM

dragoncyber said:
Heck the 4850 was nipping at the GTX280's Heels in most of the benchmarks by less then 10 to 15 Frames a second. That means the 4870 should really give it a run for it's money or better...maybe beat it.



Only 10-15 fps behind?


HELL THEY'RE PRATICALLY THE SAME CARD!!!!!111!!11111ONE


Newsflash, 10-15fps is a lot. I've seen the benches, the 4850 isn't in the same league as the GTX280. And as stated, once the 4870 is released, the price of the GTX280 will fall to something a little more reasonable.

I agree that it is great now that ATI is almost on par with nVidia the prices are going to plummet. Hell I remember paying $300 for the 8800GTS 320MB because there just wasn't anything good out from ATI and nVidia charged what they wanted.

I think you just got a little carried away with your post. Drunk with emotion it seems.



Also, these cards do not even use all the bandwidth on a PCI-E 16x lane, so don't worry about them maxing out 2x PCI-E 2.0 lanes.
June 20, 2008 12:46:41 PM

randomizer said:
I think you people have this idea that the GTX280 is going to stay at its current price point.


The big question is, what is the breakeven point for Nvidia?

Big chip, lots of transistors, yields cannot be great.
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
June 20, 2008 1:37:11 PM

The rumor (based on some calculations) was that it cost NVidia around $140 to make a single 280 chip. If that is true or even near true, they are in bad shape as ATI is selling the 4850 quite happily at $170. Until they drop it to 55nm like the 9800 line, I doubt they will have much room for drops.
June 20, 2008 2:40:10 PM

I am STILL waiting for something to make /entice/reward me to move from my SLI'd 8800 GTX's.

Unless you are doing HD playback, there is very little reason to make the jump yet.

I do love the competition, though, and hope the 4870/4870X2 makes me regret buying my current 790i board!
June 20, 2008 2:43:37 PM

for me i just wouldnt buy ANY card now. the situation being if i buy the old G92 cards now i gonna see a price drop right afterward. if i buy the GT200 cards now i gonna get rip off.

i will wait maybe until mid august because when the HD4870X2 come out next month its gonna cause another stir OR PRICE DROP in the current cards(YUM!!)

so i will wait and see.
June 20, 2008 2:49:14 PM

deuce271 said:
Also, these cards do not even use all the bandwidth on a PCI-E 16x lane, so don't worry about them maxing out 2x PCI-E 2.0 lanes.


Check this - http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/pci-express-2-0,review-30...

These new fast GPU's may have trouble to be used 100% on Intel motherboards. There is a lot of data that needs to be moved by the FSB.
June 20, 2008 3:00:56 PM

kassler said:
Check this - http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/pci-express-2-0,review-30...

These new fast GPU's may have trouble to be used 100% on Intel motherboards. There is a lot of data that needs to be moved by the FSB.


As long as the gfx card frame buffer has enough memory to hold all the textures required, and is not having to swap out to main system memory all the time, then the link speed between the gfx card and the system will not be that relevant... Even with a PCIE1 4x speed connection (like on many P965 boards) you will get very near full performance, as long as the gfx card has enough memory...

I have a Asus p5w dh, ie 2 x 8x links - I am in no doubt that xfire with 2 x 4870 1GB will be fine....
June 20, 2008 3:10:47 PM

jamesgoddard said:
I have a Asus p5w dh, ie 2 x 8x links - I am in no doubt that xfire with 2 x 4870 1GB will be fine....


But why does overclockers notice a performance boost if they overclock Intel? The processor is almost never 100% used.
June 20, 2008 4:02:32 PM

you are very noob arent you?
June 20, 2008 4:11:12 PM

does anyone know what the interconnection would be for the HD4870X2? would it use the same PCI-E 1.1 chip its using now?if yes then those people who said about the PCI-E 2.0 is a must will be battered badly!LOL :lol: 
June 20, 2008 4:34:45 PM

iluvgillgill said:
does anyone know what the interconnection would be for the HD4870X2? would it use the same PCI-E 1.1 chip its using now?if yes then those people who said about the PCI-E 2.0 is a must will be battered badly!LOL :lol: 


Have you read this?
The need for an IMC and why the FSB is dead

Just want some answerst that also explain, there is a lot of people that "knows" but they cant explain what they "know".

June 20, 2008 4:49:10 PM

i read that long time ago. im talking about the interconnection chip on the X2. on the HD3870X2 is the PLX bridge chip which operate at PCI-E 1.0 spec.
June 20, 2008 4:52:27 PM

iluvgillgill said:
i read that long time ago. im talking about the interconnection chip on the X2. on the HD3870X2 is the PLX bridge chip which operate at PCI-E 1.0 spec.


Yes but the data that goes through the PCI also travels through the FSB. The FSB is used for all data that travels to and from the CPU. That means that the data will compete with other data and also will slow down the performance even if the PCI-E can handle the load.
June 20, 2008 4:56:48 PM

yeah i get your point but in games now it shows no differences or very marginal difference in number of lane cut down from 16x to 8x. but anything under it will be limiting hard.

so people!lower your CPU multiplier and wreck the FSB all the way up!!!LOL
a b U Graphics card
June 20, 2008 5:20:03 PM

Except that if you look at tests, the gain from overclocking is roughly the same if you take a Core 2 Extreme chip and up the multiplier as if you take a standard one and up the FSB.
June 20, 2008 5:32:49 PM

have you read a article where it says a 3ghz core 2 dual 1066fsb is more then enough.but quad core is a different case.
June 20, 2008 5:52:16 PM

EXT64 said:
This is awesome for everyone, even if you don't want an ATI card. Now we won't have another repeat of the 8800 pricing where it stayed >$500 for years (it seemed, at least). This lowers the price of other great cards like the 9800 so people can SLI those like an earlier poster (and I think this is a great idea, BTW)


That is true. I think NV fans are getting the best deal out of this. There is finally some aggressive pricing on some top notch NV cards.

iluvgillgill said:
for me i just wouldnt buy ANY card now. the situation being if i buy the old G92 cards now i gonna see a price drop right afterward. if i buy the GT200 cards now i gonna get rip off.

i will wait maybe until mid august because when the HD4870X2 come out next month its gonna cause another stir OR PRICE DROP in the current cards(YUM!!)

so i will wait and see.


Stand back and let them fight over our business...the deals are just going to get better and better. :sol:  Heck, maybe even driver updates will improve now.

June 20, 2008 6:14:28 PM

yeah i just seen a review the price/performance of the 9800GTX+ is the same as HD4850.
a b U Graphics card
June 22, 2008 4:32:16 AM

Amiga500 said:
The big question is, what is the breakeven point for Nvidia?

Big chip, lots of transistors, yields cannot be great.

Yields are not great, no. I read that the theoretical maximum number of chips per wafer is only 97. Contaminants like dust particles during the manufacturing process will reduce that number alot, although they can disable damaged areas of the chip and sell it off as a lower end card (ie. what AMD does to make their monopathetic tri-cores). Won't be able to do that for every damaged chip though. They could sell the cards at a small loss to maintain market share, this would hold them over until they drop to 55nm and can make a profit on them. Nvidia aren't bleeding cash like AMD, I think they could take a small loss for a little while.
June 22, 2008 1:51:38 PM

im sure Nvidia's bank balance is in the higher end of the positive side not like AMD in the other end of the scale! when is the next sum up?i hope its some positive cash flow for AMD.
June 22, 2008 10:31:34 PM

for its price the 4850 and 4870 might strangle the nvidia product
June 22, 2008 10:57:17 PM

deuce271 said:
Only 10-15 fps behind?


HELL THEY'RE PRATICALLY THE SAME CARD!!!!!111!!11111ONE


Newsflash, 10-15fps is a lot. I've seen the benches, the 4850 isn't in the same league as the GTX280. And as stated, once the 4870 is released, the price of the GTX280 will fall to something a little more reasonable.

I agree that it is great now that ATI is almost on par with nVidia the prices are going to plummet. Hell I remember paying $300 for the 8800GTS 320MB because there just wasn't anything good out from ATI and nVidia charged what they wanted.

I think you just got a little carried away with your post. Drunk with emotion it seems.



Also, these cards do not even use all the bandwidth on a PCI-E 16x lane, so don't worry about them maxing out 2x PCI-E 2.0 lanes.


Considering that the 4850 costs less than $200 with mail in rebate right now, vs a 280 GTX for $650, 10 to 15 fps IS VERY negligible. Maybe you're the one who's carried away.
June 23, 2008 12:08:44 AM

i think he is talking about HD4850 CF not just one HD4850 on its own. but which still cost less then GTX 280.
June 23, 2008 1:52:12 AM

Nvidia is up to stuff here. They are not trying to take ATI on in this market. They are trying to change the market and the way the developement cycle works. If this works out they dont have to. By changing the cycle to fit there new tech it will literaly take ATI out of the picture and Intel is not realy to much of a threat to them as it is. Its a gamble and the next 2 years will tell the tale. The real question is not who makes the card with the most fps but will the people making software for these products jump on board or keep doing the same old thing.
June 23, 2008 3:38:06 AM

ah!finally someone is in my mind. i have this thought too. certainly Nvidia is playing a big gamble here. standing high is not the best option in this war at the moment. maybe the GT200 cores is developed to cope with the future games since they got quite a few big titles under their "THIMTBP" tag. i guess we will all see. i see Nvidia always got a much better marketing team then AMD, or pretty dirty maybe.
a b U Graphics card
June 23, 2008 3:46:13 AM

When was marketing clean?
June 23, 2008 4:23:04 AM

yep!i saw it with the X48 vs P45 in tweaktown i think it was.or legitreview who did it.
June 23, 2008 5:12:10 AM

iluvgillgill said:
ah!finally someone is in my mind. i have this thought too. certainly Nvidia is playing a big gamble here. standing high is not the best option in this war at the moment. maybe the GT200 cores is developed to cope with the future games since they got quite a few big titles under their "THIMTBP" tag. i guess we will all see. i see Nvidia always got a much better marketing team then AMD, or pretty dirty maybe.


Actually TWIMTBP campaign does not do much for Nvidia, to my knowledge most of these games run as well with ATI. Also ATI is using the more mainstream Havok system than Nvidia's Physx. Lastly, as marvelous211 wrote in another thread, and what I have researched myself after I read it " Bilinear fillrate is what you consider low quality fillrate for older games but FP 16 blending fillrate is what you would call higher quality for use with HDR." What marvelous211 was saying is that the GTX200 series uses "Bilinear fillrate" and the ATI 4xxx series is using "FP 16 blending fillrate", which means in this area the ATI cards will perform better in newer games with heavy HDR and in general. Also add the fact that ATI will be using GDDR5 which will give them experience with it's uses and driver support will also add to ATI's future prowess. Regardless of what Nvidia says, they must transcend the GDDR3 rut they are in with future cards. I honestly can not see how Nvidia can continue the way it is without being stomped by ATI in the near future, I do not believe the gamble will pay off at all.

Thanks marvelous211 for the quote, I owe you for bringing my attention to this matter in the first place and inadvertently explaining it better than I ever could, nice job as usual.
June 23, 2008 5:15:53 AM

DarthPiggie said:
If that is the case then he will need a x38/48 or another pci2.0 16x16, because 8x8 just wont do it:

http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/1472/7/page_7_benchma...


Yeah a lot of "experts" on the forums have been saying that this was going to happen soon, guess I did not want to believe it. I wonder if the GDDR5 in the 4870 will make the difference even larger?
June 23, 2008 7:57:44 AM

Quote:
hey folks i plan to buy either 9800GTX or HD 4850. But how big are these cards? i mean physical size?

My PC case physical size is: Heigh= 370mm , wide= 183mm , Depth=455mm

would it fit in my case?



edit..

i misread that post... the 9800GTX will probably fit, if you have a look on goolge, there are plenty of forums and posts and which cases these cards will fit in.
a b U Graphics card
June 23, 2008 8:42:43 AM

This time, the FP way wont be stopped by M$ even tho nVidia already has their cards out. nVidia never used GDDR4 on their cards because they couldnt. They need GDDR5, and its much more agreeable to thier arch this time around. nVidia needs DX10.1, and needs to stop slowing progress. I cant imagine next year when DX11 comes out and nVidia says its not important. Do you think Intel wont be using DX10.1 or DX11? nVidia needs to get on board with havok if it ever goes to gpu solution. Theres alot of things nVidia has been doing, or should I say hasnt been doing , just because they could get away with it. Those days are numbered
!