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Views on the ATI 4870

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June 22, 2008 4:00:00 PM

This is all speculation at this time, but how well do people believe the 4870 will perform? Personally I am looking for up to 40% over the 4850 - why? Well the core clock is 20% faster, but that’s only half the story, the GDDR5 ATI are slapping into it will be clocking at 4400MHz - yes that fast, at that speed the ATI unit has more memory bandwidth that the 512bit Nvidia 280, I believe we are in for a real treat folks...

The 4870 should be really on the heels of the 280, the 4870x2 will blow it away. Bad news for Nvidia as the 280 is just simply too large and complex to make into a dual GPU card...

I wait to be proved wrong, but the one thing we can guarantee, we have a real GPU war again boys...

More about : views ati 4870

June 22, 2008 4:14:23 PM

jamesgoddard said:
This is all speculation at this time, but how well do people believe the 4870 will perform? Personally I am looking for up to 40% over the 4850 - why? Well the core clock is 20% faster, but that%u2019s only half the story, the GDDR5 ATI are slapping into it will be clocking at 4400MHz - yes that fast, at that speed the ATI unit has more memory bandwidth that the 512bit Nvidia 280, I believe we are in for a real treat folks...

The 4870 should be really on the heels of the 280, the 4870x2 will blow it away. Bad news for Nvidia as the 280 is just simply too large and complex to make into a dual GPU card...

I wait to be proved wrong, but the one thing we can guarantee, we have a real GPU war again boys...


Considering RV770 has more FP16 blending fillrate I think in some games it will be very close to 280gtx. Not so much in others because GT200 has more bilinear fillrate.
June 22, 2008 4:24:01 PM

I would expect to see an X2 after the shrink. NV won't let the 4870X2 sit on top.
Related resources
June 22, 2008 4:30:56 PM

There we go with overinflated expectations again. 4870 won't be anywhere near gtx280. The distance between 4850, which perform the same as g92 8800gts/9800gts/8800gtx, and gtx280 is just far too large to make up. That's 4870x2 territory.
June 22, 2008 4:42:45 PM

I would guess that the 4870 will be breathing down the GTX260's neck, on par with the GTX280 is too unlikely, more likely that its on par with the GTX260, or maybe, just maybe it'll beat it out.

There I go daydreaming again. :pt1cable: 
June 22, 2008 4:47:43 PM

jamesgoddard said:
Views on the ATI 4870


Still waiting

kkthanksbye
June 22, 2008 4:55:58 PM

dagger said:
There we go with overinflated expectations again. 4870 won't be anywhere near gtx280. The distance between 4850, which perform the same as g92 8800gts/9800gts/8800gtx, and gtx280 is just far too large to make up. That's 4870x2 territory.


Again 260gtx isn't that far off from 4850 and sometimes 4850 downright beating 260gtx. I suspect 4870 would very much compete with 260gtx and at times downright beating 280gtx in those particular situations.
June 22, 2008 5:07:51 PM



ATI 4850 kick 9800GTX in the ass. This is true because the Nvidia is forced to responed with 9800GTX+ with higher OC to counter the 4850 crown which will be out first week of July. So ATI 4870 will be the same or higher than GTX260 and 4870X2 is better than all. ATI HD 4870 will be out July first week too.

ATI has scalability of 1.7 as crossfire
Just take ATI 4850 score 4294 x 1.7 = 7299.8 or 7300
4850 X 2 alone will be a good match to gtx280 what more for the 4870?

GTX280 = $650

4850 = $200 x 2 = $400 + $200 = $600 (Surely fast still cheaper)

Beat that!

[:pogsnet:1]
June 22, 2008 5:20:37 PM

Power Color 4850 Review...
http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/powercolor_hd48...

To answer the OP, I believe the 4870 will be AMD's return to the runnings in terms of sales and it may or may not perform better than the GTX280, but for the price, I'm going back to AMD's offerings, even if the 4870 doesn't perform as well quite as well as the GTX280... again, for the price, you'd have to be a fanboy to NOT prefer the AMD card...

Although... I am DEFINITELY looking forward to a 4870 and 4870X2 review... the 4850 is very promising for only $199... one could hope the 4870 would scale in terms of performance, and that would, of course, bring much joy to my PC, as well as my wallet...

time to find a crossfire compatible mobo...
June 22, 2008 5:55:23 PM

1. Stop showing synthetic benchmarks as the main or the only criteria when comparing video cards. They are very much useless and don't show how the cards will perform where it matters (games).

2. It is pointless to speculate about 4870 because we know very little about the card. Hell, we didn't know number of stream processors on 4850 until first reviews surfaced. All that posts like these accomplish is firing up the fanboys on both sides and that means threads like these end in the toilet rather quickly.

NVidia fanboys should be happy that ATI is back because GTX200 will be the last generation of >$400 cards. If 4870 even touches GTX260, NVidia will cut the prices of the 200 series by 25%. Remember what happened when 8800GTX came out and it had no competition? I do and it wasn't pretty.

ATI fanboys should be happy because NVidia waited for ATI to get back up after the merger instead of running them into the ground. What do you think, NVidia people just decided to stop running their 6 month publishing cycle because they are lazy or were unable to come up with a G92 refresh before?

So why make stupid remarks such as "ATI 4850 kick 9800GTX" when if you spend just 3 minutes looking at benchmarks you will see that 9800GTX is still ahead by little. What 4850 did is decrease the price of the card that was $350 month and a half ago to $199. And we all (end users) be happy about that.

"Bad news for Nvidia as the 280 is just simply too large and complex to make into a dual GPU card... " I am sorry, but how do you know this? Oh wait, you don't. So don't talk trash when you don't know what you are talking about.
June 22, 2008 5:56:21 PM

crosshares said:
I would guess that the 4870 will be breathing down the GTX260's neck, on par with the GTX280 is too unlikely, more likely that its on par with the GTX260, or maybe, just maybe it'll beat it out.

There I go daydreaming again. :pt1cable: 
I'm expecting 4870 will be something between X260 and X280
And if it'll come at a price less than 300$ I'll immediately get 2 cards, still cheaper than X280 and 2 will outperform 1 card X280
June 22, 2008 5:58:22 PM

Man I cant wait till tommorow,, that 4870 is a very attractive offer, i cant wait to see RV770 at its full glory!
June 22, 2008 5:59:31 PM

BTW GDDR5 wont be clocked that high, perhaps with an overclock, since AMD had to donwclock the quimoda chips, perhaps OCing them will be very easy.
June 22, 2008 6:07:22 PM

isit out tomorrow?
June 22, 2008 6:18:16 PM

Nvidia won't stand around being 2nd place, they'll be competitive, and won't lose the performance crown so easily.
June 22, 2008 6:20:44 PM

pcgamer12 said:
Nvidia won't stand around being 2nd place, they'll be competitive, and won't lose the performance crown so easily.

It's not about the performance crown. Judging by 4850's performance, it's impossible for 4870 to overtake gtx280. Value is a different matter though.
June 22, 2008 6:20:54 PM

bosnian81 said:
1. Stop showing synthetic benchmarks as the main or the only criteria when comparing video cards. They are very much useless and don't show how the cards will perform where it matters (games).

2. It is pointless to speculate about 4870 because we know very little about the card. Hell, we didn't know number of stream processors on 4850 until first reviews surfaced. All that posts like these accomplish is firing up the fanboys on both sides and that means threads like these end in the toilet rather quickly.

NVidia fanboys should be happy that ATI is back because GTX200 will be the last generation of >$400 cards. If 4870 even touches GTX260, NVidia will cut the prices of the 200 series by 25%. Remember what happened when 8800GTX came out and it had no competition? I do and it wasn't pretty.

ATI fanboys should be happy because NVidia waited for ATI to get back up after the merger instead of running them into the ground. What do you think, NVidia people just decided to stop running their 6 month publishing cycle because they are lazy or were unable to come up with a G92 refresh before?

So why make stupid remarks such as "ATI 4850 kick 9800GTX" when if you spend just 3 minutes looking at benchmarks you will see that 9800GTX is still ahead by little. What 4850 did is decrease the price of the card that was $350 month and a half ago to $199. And we all (end users) be happy about that.

"Bad news for Nvidia as the 280 is just simply too large and complex to make into a dual GPU card... " I am sorry, but how do you know this? Oh wait, you don't. So don't talk trash when you don't know what you are talking about.


3dmark is a game engine if you didn't know. If you know how to read the graphs it tells you quite a bit about card's capability. 3dmark scores are useless but the data itself is viable way to measure performance.
June 22, 2008 6:33:20 PM

bosnian81 said:
1. Stop showing synthetic benchmarks as the main or the only criteria when comparing video cards. They are very much useless and don't show how the cards will perform where it matters (games).

2. It is pointless to speculate about 4870 because we know very little about the card. Hell, we didn't know number of stream processors on 4850 until first reviews surfaced. All that posts like these accomplish is firing up the fanboys on both sides and that means threads like these end in the toilet rather quickly.

NVidia fanboys should be happy that ATI is back because GTX200 will be the last generation of >$400 cards. If 4870 even touches GTX260, NVidia will cut the prices of the 200 series by 25%. Remember what happened when 8800GTX came out and it had no competition? I do and it wasn't pretty.

ATI fanboys should be happy because NVidia waited for ATI to get back up after the merger instead of running them into the ground. What do you think, NVidia people just decided to stop running their 6 month publishing cycle because they are lazy or were unable to come up with a G92 refresh before?

So why make stupid remarks such as "ATI 4850 kick 9800GTX" when if you spend just 3 minutes looking at benchmarks you will see that 9800GTX is still ahead by little. What 4850 did is decrease the price of the card that was $350 month and a half ago to $199. And we all (end users) be happy about that.

"Bad news for Nvidia as the 280 is just simply too large and complex to make into a dual GPU card... " I am sorry, but how do you know this? Oh wait, you don't. So don't talk trash when you don't know what you are talking about.


1. Exactly why would Nvidia make a new gard when their was no need, they're not gonna say, "Gee, we're really bored, let's make a new card just because..." Nvidia is not going to waste money retooling something until they need to, they weren't being all warm and fuzzy and sportsmanlike to ATI. Do you really think they had the GTX+ ready in one night, no, they just had no need costwise to release it.

2. Can yer bitchin'...it's all just guesses till this week !

June 22, 2008 6:37:07 PM

@Marvelous211

Care to throw in a guess and extrappolate/fudginate some performance for the 4870...I think it will be fairly close in today's games to the 280. NO idea which is gonna AA better myself, brute force vs efficiency is gonna be interesting !
June 22, 2008 6:40:53 PM

GTX280 = $650

4870 = $300

buy 2 you got faster card yet cheaper. buying gtx280 is no brainer.

"So where do I begin with this card? I am left speechless because the HD4850 blew past my expectations! Now, don't get me wrong - I had high hopes for the HD4800 series cards, and strongly wanted them to give Nvidia a run for their money so that the competition stays high, which benefits consumers. However, this review opened my eyes to a new love of ATI products. Being a reviewer, you have to go into a product with an open mind and unbiased opinion, which is what I did - and I was impressed. The HD4850 pushed passed many mainstream cards that are used today, and even kicked on the heels of Nvidia's newest beast, the GTX 280. Ok, so you say it caught up, but didn't take it over - but with a price tag of $199, versus the GTX 280's very high price of $649.99, this is a no-brainier. I mean, you can get three of these cards for the cost of just one GTX 280 and CrossFire them."
source: http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/powercolor_hd48...
June 22, 2008 8:47:25 PM

royalcrown said:
@Marvelous211

Care to throw in a guess and extrappolate/fudginate some performance for the 4870...I think it will be fairly close in today's games to the 280. NO idea which is gonna AA better myself, brute force vs efficiency is gonna be interesting !

The 4870 is most likely going to be in competition with the 260, not the 280. As has been said, the 280 is 4870X2's dinner. Lights out NV :cry: 
June 22, 2008 9:04:30 PM

I don't care how good a value the 4870 is, as long as my GTX 280 is the fastest single card around for at least 4 months, I'll be happy.
June 22, 2008 9:05:39 PM

gamecrazychris said:
I don't care how good a value the 4870 is, as long as my GTX 280 is the fastest single card around for at least 4 months, I'll be happy.

Isn't the 4870x2 coming out within 4 months? :p 
June 22, 2008 9:12:26 PM

its coming in august, but the 280 will still technically be the fastest single GPU. But who cares about technicality, all we care about is fps and performance. ppl say that ATI's strategy is moot and say that "so what if two mainstream GPUs outperform one high end, nvidia can just make two of their own and smack em together too", but they forget the price difference, things should only be compared nipples to nipples if they are in the same price range.
June 22, 2008 9:20:51 PM

dagger said:
Isn't the 4870x2 coming out within 4 months? :p 



Ding... heheh

But then I guess he will complain that the 4870x2 is not a real single card.... I guess he also has an AMD Phenom cos the intel chips are not real quad cores.
June 22, 2008 9:37:12 PM

Why stop at synthetic benchmarks? why not add a wiki stub saying "And its 100% better folks, fact proof positive" and a link to the inquirer?

In any case in actual games the 4850 preforms about as well as a 9800gtx, and since the 280 is, in crysis, over 40% faster than a 9800x2, I doubt the 4870 will be coming near it.
But I'm almost sure that for price-performance, AMD will be better.
June 22, 2008 9:40:23 PM

royalcrown said:
1. Exactly why would Nvidia make a new gard when their was no need, they're not gonna say, "Gee, we're really bored, let's make a new card just because..." Nvidia is not going to waste money retooling something until they need to, they weren't being all warm and fuzzy and sportsmanlike to ATI. Do you really think they had the GTX+ ready in one night, no, they just had no need costwise to release it.

2. Can yer bitchin'...it's all just guesses till this week !


okay then why intel is working on nehalem, when there is no need to release it. And why would nvidia want ati to get back up ? Competition - less money for Nvidia.
June 22, 2008 10:03:16 PM

royalcrown said:
@Marvelous211

Care to throw in a guess and extrappolate/fudginate some performance for the 4870...I think it will be fairly close in today's games to the 280. NO idea which is gonna AA better myself, brute force vs efficiency is gonna be interesting !


GeForce GTX 280
19.3 pixel fillrate
48.2 bilinear fillrate
24.1 FP16 fillrate
141.7 GB/s
933.12 GFLOPS

GeForce GTX 260
16.1 pixel fillrate
41.5 bilinear fillrate
20.7 FP16 fillrate
111.9 GB/s
714.24 GFLOPS

Radeon HD 4870
12.0 pixel fillrate
30.0 bilinear fillrate
30.0 FP 16 Fillrate
115.2 GB/s
1.2 teraflop

Just looking at these specs 4870 would be very close to 260gtx. 260gtx is really a good match for 4870. It's bandwidth is very similar and spec wise it kind of balances out. Bilinear fillrate is what you consider low quality fillrate for older games but FP 16 blending fillrate is what you would call higher quality for use with HDR. The games today have a bit of both so expect 260gtx to have higher performance in older games and higher max fps but I expect 4870 to have higher performance in newer games and better minimum frame rate and even surpass 280gtx in games like GRID that consist of HDR in the entire game.. Pixel fillrate is very helpful in higher resolutions and AA but RV770 has much better AA performance than Nvidia this time around not to mention more efficient with their ROP as witnessed by 4850 that has higher color fill than 9800gtx with less bandwidth. We weren't that shader limited in the first place. shader help but the biggest gains are usually scene by fillrate.

June 22, 2008 10:07:46 PM

2 interesting points:

1) newegg had several brand 4850s at $179 after rebate, and even one at $169 for a day or two. Not anymore though. A couple lucky bastards must REALLY have gotten a steal.

2) it will be interesting to see when the 9800GTX+ actually hits the market in quantities. The last I saw is that it won't see retailers until the end of July. With that kind of reasoning, perhaps ATI should just "release" their 4870X2 now.

My completely uninformed WAG is that the 4870 will be about a third of the way past the GTX260 to the 280.
June 22, 2008 10:20:14 PM

jamesgoddard said:
Ding... heheh

But then I guess he will complain that the 4870x2 is not a real single card.... I guess he also has an AMD Phenom cos the intel chips are not real quad cores.


Actually I've got a q9450 but the only reason I didn't get an 4870x2 is because when I play a game that isn't good at Crossfire it performs as good as the single gpu card and the same with the 9800GX2, I just want guaranteed top performance in most games regardless of SLI/Crossfire compatibility.
June 22, 2008 11:05:57 PM

when is 4870 comin out?
June 22, 2008 11:06:56 PM

sahil said:
when is 4870 comin out?

Tomorrow.
a b U Graphics card
June 22, 2008 11:43:50 PM

gamecrazychris said:
Actually I've got a q9450 but the only reason I didn't get an 4870x2 is because when I play a game that isn't good at Crossfire it performs as good as the single gpu card and the same with the 9800GX2, I just want guaranteed top performance in most games regardless of SLI/Crossfire compatibility.

If the x2 outdoes a GTX280 in most games, since most games work with cf/sli, then its the way to go, and when it doesnt, youll have to live with killer performance better tha n anything BUT the g280, to me its a nobrainer
June 22, 2008 11:46:31 PM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
If the x2 outdoes a GTX280 in most games, since most games work with cf/sli, then its the way to go, and when it doesnt, youll have to live with killer performance better tha n anything BUT the g280, to me its a nobrainer

Supposedly the 4870x2 connect the 2 gpus in a new way, does not use bridge, shares ram, and scales like a single gpu.
a b U Graphics card
June 22, 2008 11:58:57 PM

Well, I think somethings are changed for the better, but did they hit a home run? Not to sure about that, but hey, I love surprises
June 23, 2008 12:03:51 AM

dagger said:
Tomorrow.

I wish, isnt it coming the 25th?
June 23, 2008 2:26:00 AM

I thought it was 25th June - 4850 and 8th July - 4870. What is with the tomorrow stuff?
June 23, 2008 2:50:48 AM

tomorrow both cards were slated for launch, the 23rd, but that has been changed, due to gddr5 shortage
June 23, 2008 3:04:15 AM

bosnian81 said:

NVidia fanboys should be happy that ATI is back because GTX200 will be the last generation of >$400 cards. If 4870 even touches GTX260, NVidia will cut the prices of the 200 series by 25%. Remember what happened when 8800GTX came out and it had no competition? I do and it wasn't pretty.



A significant price cut on the GTX200's will likely have to wait until the 55nm versions come out or Nvidia will be losing money on each card. Remember that even if Nvidia was having a 100% yield rate it is still costing them well over $100 per GPU before it is even put on the PCB due to the massive size of each chip and the high cost of wafers. In reality however, Nvidia likely has a yield rate of far less that 100% and hence is probably not making a huge profit on each of the GTX280's right now despite the extremely high retail cost.

June 23, 2008 3:08:24 AM

i hate profitabilty, we need sustainability, but thats for another day.
June 23, 2008 3:10:28 AM

lukuks said:
okay then why intel is working on nehalem, when there is no need to release it. And why would nvidia want ati to get back up ? Competition - less money for Nvidia.



Intel is working on Nehalem because the Core arcitecture, while good, is eventually going to hit a wall. Basically, its time for an update, as well as the fact that the FSB is really, really, really getting on in years, Nehalem doesn't need an FSB anymore, which is mainly why intel is making it.

And no, Nvidia never did want ATI to get back up, they underestimated them and thus, screwed up on the final lap. :kaola: 
June 23, 2008 3:18:40 AM

Im afraid to say, but i dont think that Nahalem will improve on Core 2 for single threaded apps. And that is what counts the most because most apps are single threaded.
June 23, 2008 3:21:18 AM

marvelous211 said:
GeForce GTX 280
19.3 pixel fillrate
48.2 bilinear fillrate
24.1 FP16 fillrate
141.7 GB/s
933.12 GFLOPS

GeForce GTX 260
16.1 pixel fillrate
41.5 bilinear fillrate
20.7 FP16 fillrate
111.9 GB/s
714.24 GFLOPS

Radeon HD 4870
12.0 pixel fillrate
30.0 bilinear fillrate
30.0 FP 16 Fillrate
115.2 GB/s
1.2 teraflop

Just looking at these specs 4870 would be very close to 260gtx. 260gtx is really a good match for 4870. It's bandwidth is very similar and spec wise it kind of balances out. Bilinear fillrate is what you consider low quality fillrate for older games but FP 16 blending fillrate is what you would call higher quality for use with HDR. The games today have a bit of both so expect 260gtx to have higher performance in older games and higher max fps but I expect 4870 to have higher performance in newer games and better minimum frame rate and even surpass 280gtx in games like GRID that consist of HDR in the entire game.. Pixel fillrate is very helpful in higher resolutions and AA but RV770 has much better AA performance than Nvidia this time around not to mention more efficient with their ROP as witnessed by 4850 that has higher color fill than 9800gtx with less bandwidth. We weren't that shader limited in the first place. shader help but the biggest gains are usually scene by fillrate.


I believe you are very close, as usual. I believe the 4870 will tie the GTX260 in older games and get higher performance in newer ones. Where heavy AA is used I believe the 4870 will beat the GTX280 half the time. Somewhere between your opinion and mine will be the almost assured performance of the 4870, atleast that is what it would seem.
June 23, 2008 3:25:02 AM

DarthPiggie said:
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/nehalempreview_06050...

wow, a increase of...2.86%.....nice.....impressive.

enough trolling though.


I'm pretty sure that Nehalem will have much higher clocks than that, according to most of the "news". Also there is no way that I will ever believe that benchmark is accurate, or even ever MADE. I highly doubt nehalem has been benchmarked by anyone other than Intel considering it is half a year or more away from the market.
June 23, 2008 3:27:36 AM

The_Blood_Raven said:
I believe you are very close, as usual. I believe the 4870 will tie the GTX260 in older games and get higher performance in newer ones. Where heavy AA is used I believe the 4870 will beat the GTX280 half the time. Somewhere between your opinion and mine will be the almost assured performance of the 4870, atleast that is what it would seem.

I think we might be in danger of overhyping the cards, to the point where they dissapoint, kinda like how the 280 was overhyped...yea. But still, here to hoping the well-rounded 4870 beats the 260! which it was never meant to do. We are hopeful because the 200s dissapoint.
June 23, 2008 3:33:36 AM

this thread is about GPUs, thats why its trolling
June 23, 2008 3:38:01 AM

DarthPiggie said:
this thread is about GPUs, thats why its trolling


Obviously you didn't read the whole thread, I was responding to this gentleman several posts above.

lukuks said:
okay then why intel is working on nehalem, when there is no need to release it. And why would nvidia want ati to get back up ? Competition - less money for Nvidia.


Is it still trolling? :whistle: 
!