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::: SOLID STATE VS. HDD?:::

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September 24, 2009 1:28:17 AM

Curious Question,


Which Hard drive technology is better? Solid state or spinning platter hard drive..?
I 'm talking about speed ... quicker boots, etc...

Thanx

More about : solid state hdd

a c 415 G Storage
September 24, 2009 2:49:43 AM

Solid state drives are faster in pretty much every way except for continuous write throughput. They have no mechanical parts so there's much less delay when accessing data - access times for an SSD are about 1/100th that of a typical hard drive.

This translates to quicker boots and application loads. Whether your program runs any faster once it's been loaded depends entirely on how much and what type of disk activity it does.
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September 24, 2009 5:19:34 AM

Wow, thank you!!I didnt know it was that quicker! Of course it depends on solid state speed.. I noticed they are getting better...
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a c 415 G Storage
September 24, 2009 6:12:05 AM

rlubocki said:
Wow, thank you!!I didnt know it was that quicker! Of course it depends on solid state speed.. I noticed they are getting better...

Just to make sure that you have right expectations, it's the access time where SSDs are much, much faster than mechanical drives. The transfer rate on SSDs is faster than most hard drives, but not that much faster (and for writing it's slower than some hard drives).

Access time = how long it takes to find the data
Transfer rate = how fast it can be moved to or from the disk once the drive has found it.
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September 24, 2009 7:58:33 AM

Today, manufacturers are leaning over in developing SSD instead of bulky contemporary HDDs. Of course SSDs right now are quite expensive and isn't well optimize. But as we can see, SSD has the advantage on speed and power input. When mass production of SSD starts I guess it would be more powerful than HDDs.
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September 24, 2009 1:41:52 PM

Hey,

Thank you for explanation, it seems ssd is the future, and like you said it will be a common technology, spinning platters are way outdated. Will RAID 1, or 0 setup spped things up? I am unfamiliar with this, will I see a significant speed increase if I go with raid setup for XP pro?
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a c 415 G Storage
September 24, 2009 3:59:35 PM

RAID will speed things up, but if you're using SSDs it's expensive and frankly I think that a single SSD is likely to be plenty fast enough unless you'll be doing something that requires a lot of writing to it.
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September 24, 2009 8:14:38 PM

I'm curious on a few points?

1. Would adding an SSD be worth it on an older systems like 2-3yrs old (say Pentium D, P4 etc)? Obviously not a $500 SSD, but something around $120

2. Do these need a new dedicated controller and if so is this an additional cost over and above the actual SSD drive itself?

3. If you run an SSD (say a 64GB for the OS) along with your original HD (7200 160 SATAII) will the SSD's performance be hindered => e.g. operate at the slowest performing item, sort of like adding a slower HD spec to what you are currently running etc..?

Thanks.
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September 24, 2009 8:30:29 PM

Quote:
SSD's are one of the best upgrade's you can do to your computer these days. Windows Xp boots up in 3 seconds on my I7 rig



From sleep mode?
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a c 415 G Storage
September 24, 2009 8:37:39 PM

1. Would adding an SSD be worth it on an older systems like 2-3yrs old (say Pentium D, P4 etc)? Obviously not a $500 SSD, but something around $120

If what you want is faster boot and application load times, then yes, it probably would help.



2. Do these need a new dedicated controller and if so is this an additional cost over and above the actual SSD drive itself?

If your system has a SATA controller with at least one free port then all you have to do is plug the drive in. (Of course, if you want to use it as your OS drive then you'll also have to install the OS onto it.) If you don't have a SATA drive then you should be able to find a PCI to SATA controller for around $20-25. These controllers are typically SATA-1 due to the limitation on PCI bus throughput, but since the bulk of the performance benefit will probably come from improved random I/O times rather than from improved transfer rates, I think it would work just fine for you.



3. If you run an SSD (say a 64GB for the OS) along with your original HD (7200 160 SATAII) will the SSD's performance be hindered => e.g. operate at the slowest performing item, sort of like adding a slower HD spec to what you are currently running etc..?

No, the SSD won't be slowed down by the slower drive. But you want to make sure that the most frequently accessed files (typical those in the OS and application folders) are on the faster drive.
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September 26, 2009 6:28:57 PM

Quote:
SSD's are one of the best upgrade's you can do to your computer these days. Windows Xp boots up in 3 seconds on my I7 rig


Yeah, I can believe that, but with it's price tag right now, I think I can let go of a few seconds/minutes of booth up. At least I'll have time to fix my self a cup of coffee. =)

On a side note, I wonder why manufacturers are still focusing on bulky HDD if SSD is the way to go? I just read that Freecom will release the World's first USB 3.0 External hard drive with 2TB of space. I guess HDD still is the crowd's favorite. It probably will not die out too soon.
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a c 415 G Storage
September 26, 2009 6:59:58 PM

rodyhoffer said:
On a side note, I wonder why manufacturers are still focusing on bulky HDD if SSD is the way to go?
SSDs are fast, but have limited capacity. For the price of a 160GB SSD you can buy several 1000GB hard drives.
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a c 127 G Storage
September 27, 2009 6:42:07 PM

HDDs will die out, but slowly. They will be used in situations where capacity and price-per-GB is important; as storage or backup mediums. The sequential speeds of mechanical disks is decent, but any random patterns and the performance will drop to floppy-drive spectrum.

So i will guess mostly any PC in the near future will sport at least one SSD for boot/system purposes, and one larger mechanical disk for raw storage space. Eventually mechanical disks will not be used anymore because innovations in solid state technology will make it possible to create far denser (cheaper) and even faster products. You will see small and affordable PCIe SSDs, with in excess of 1GB/s or 1000MB/s throughput, and around 100.000 random IOps. First there will be more expensive versions of such products aimed at the server market, where these products are needed mostly. Only later when mass production can lower cost significantly, will you find products oriented towards consumers with pricing according.

Oh yes, for any consumer the storage industry is transforming, and all for the better!
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a b G Storage
September 27, 2009 11:25:19 PM

sub mesa said:
HDDs will die out, but slowly. They will be used in situations where capacity and price-per-GB is important; as storage or backup mediums. The sequential speeds of mechanical disks is decent, but any random patterns and the performance will drop to floppy-drive spectrum.

So i will guess mostly any PC in the near future will sport at least one SSD for boot/system purposes, and one larger mechanical disk for raw storage space. Eventually mechanical disks will not be used anymore because innovations in solid state technology will make it possible to create far denser (cheaper) and even faster products. You will see small and affordable PCIe SSDs, with in excess of 1GB/s or 1000MB/s throughput, and around 100.000 random IOps. First there will be more expensive versions of such products aimed at the server market, where these products are needed mostly. Only later when mass production can lower cost significantly, will you find products oriented towards consumers with pricing according.

Oh yes, for any consumer the storage industry is transforming, and all for the better!

HDDs are at 2TB right now. 34nm Flash memory is somewhere around 40mm^2 per GB right now. Assuming that it scales perfectly, that means 10nm will be 3.5mm^2 per GB. 2TB would then be around 7000mm^2 of die space (around 15x a GT200). Hard drives will continue to grow as well. Honestly, I don't see hard drives dying for a LONG time, though they will become almost entirely a data storage and backup drive due to their high capacity and slow speed. SSDs will increase in use, yes, but I don't see them passing a hard drive in gigabytes per dollar anytime soon.
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a c 415 G Storage
September 28, 2009 1:32:33 AM

cjl said:
SSDs will increase in use, yes, but I don't see them passing a hard drive in gigabytes per dollar anytime soon.
Agreed!

The real issue is when the vastly superior performance of SSDs justifies the extra cost/GB. We're just starting to hit that point for boot drives for the mass market, and as SSD cost continues to drop they'll make inroads for more and more applications.

But the reality is that there will always be a market for dirt-cheap bulk storage. It used to be tapes, but that niche is slowly being overrun by hard drives. I think they'll reign in that space for a long time.
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October 4, 2009 6:05:49 PM

sminlal said:

The real issue is when the vastly superior performance of SSDs justifies the extra cost/GB. We're just starting to hit that point for boot drives for the mass market, and as SSD cost continues to drop they'll make inroads for more and more applications.

But the reality is that there will always be a market for dirt-cheap bulk storage. It used to be tapes, but that niche is slowly being overrun by hard drives. I think they'll reign in that space for a long time.


Yes, I agree as well with your point. Speed and power efficiency will be both covered by SSDs especially if laptop manufacturers release new models. SSD would help a lot to maximize the specs of their models... so instead of bulky HDDs eating up the power... SSD could eliminate that out. Thus, giving more room for improvements on other peripherals.
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a c 127 G Storage
October 4, 2009 6:26:45 PM

cjl said:
HDDs are at 2TB right now. 34nm Flash memory is somewhere around 40mm^2 per GB right now. Assuming that it scales perfectly, that means 10nm will be 3.5mm^2 per GB. 2TB would then be around 7000mm^2 of die space (around 15x a GT200). Hard drives will continue to grow as well. Honestly, I don't see hard drives dying for a LONG time, though they will become almost entirely a data storage and backup drive due to their high capacity and slow speed. SSDs will increase in use, yes, but I don't see them passing a hard drive in gigabytes per dollar anytime soon.

I agree as well. :D 

That's why i think HDDs will still co-exist with the SSDs since they each have different strong points:

SSDs: high performance, high reliability
HDDs: high capacity, high GB-per-dollar ratio

So it would be ideal to have one SSD for OS + all installed Applications + Games, plus a larger mechanical HDD for data storage (1TB+). Such setups are very rare at casual computer stores right now, but i believe it will become casual pretty soon. It will only be much later when mechanical disks are becoming very obsolete.

Note also, that manufacturers won't be investing in HDD technology too much. Its a dying sector; the number of sold harddrives will drop at a point and will continue to drop. This will also make the products more expensive - because the cost price of a product relies heavily on the volume you're producing it. So eventually HDDs will disappear or at least shrink to a minor industry.

SSDs scale much better. While HDDs scale very slowly, the performance of SSDs scale much faster due to controller improvements. There's no real limit to the scaling of flash storage since there's plenty of opportunity to use parallellisation. The current controllers have 8 to 10 channels, this can be improved even further. The IOps could explode to the point of storage being so fast its not really a bottleneck anymore; just a bit slower than RAM but not terribly much. RAM may even disappear with it integrating in the CPU, leaving only disk storage remaining. Or the storage may merge with the RAM; having solid state RAM which will make booting a thing of the past.

All this is far in the future, currently i'm very excited about SSDs elevating I/O performance in both server and consumer computer systems. While the advantages for server systems is obvious, this is also a great technology for consumer systems, making them more reliable and alot snappier to respond to user input.
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October 12, 2009 8:47:31 AM

Nice thread, we can all see what others think and opinions about SSD and HDD. :) 
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October 27, 2009 5:44:30 PM

I guess in the future consumers won't need large capacity storage. Instead, they'll rely on resources in the cloud for their mass storage needs.

So the $$/Mb advantage of HDD versus SSD may soon be irrelevant.
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a c 415 G Storage
October 27, 2009 8:05:53 PM

sventy said:
I guess in the future consumers won't need large capacity storage. Instead, they'll rely on resources in the cloud for their mass storage needs.
I can pretty much guarantee you that at least *some* of the people who rely on "cloud" storage are going to be burned. It may be that a smaller percentage will be burned by cloud storage than by their own questionable storage practices, but speaking as someone who values their data highly and who takes a great deal of care to make sure it's secure, I'd never rely on someone else to safeguard my data.
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