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Mitsubishi WD52725 - 480p DVD video problems - please help

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September 5, 2005 7:05:25 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,rec.video (More info?)

After seeing the sharp and colorful HDTV pictures on various DLP and
LCD 50 and 52" HDTVs, I decided to buy a Mitsubishi. Since the model I
wanted was sold out, I was offered a WD52725 open box in the back for
$1500. None of the stores I went to would hook up a progressive scan
DVD player to any TVs, but they all said it would look sharp and clear
-- almost as good as the HDTV landscape channels they were showing.

When I got it home and plugged in basic analog cable from the wall, as
I expected I could not get any HDTV channels on the ATSC tuner. I
hooked up my Panasonic DVD-S27 progressive scan player in 480p mode
using the component video connection, and I did my best to adjust the
settings (there are surprisingly few on this TV). Unfortunately every
DVD I played looked bad. The picture was almost as dull and fuzzy as
the very first rear projection TVs I avoided 5 years ago.

To get a picture even close to watchable, I had to crank the
sharpness, contrast, and brightness almost to max. Even then the
picture was too dark, too soft and the colors washed out during movie
playback, but for some reason static DVD menus looked nice and sharp.
From the Return of the King to Ice Age to whatever movie I tried, I
could barely stand the picture. My 5-year old $700 36" Toshiba direct
view tube TV makes the picture on this Mitsubishi look like a joke.

Considering the HDTVs looked so good in the stores, I'm assuming I
must be doing something wrong or have gotten a defective unit.

Does anyone have any ideas what could be wrong before I send this unit
back as defective and try a new Sony KDFE50A10 for $500 more? I really
would like to be able to keep this set for $1500 if it were watchable.
I could live with the loud fan noise (even when the TV is off) and
numerous specks of dirt trapped under the screen, but not this dull
picture.

Never having seen progressive scan 480p on a DLP or LCD HDTV, am I
wrong to expect clarity and sharpness like a HDTV broadcast or close
to my old Toshiba tube TV?
September 5, 2005 9:36:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,rec.video (More info?)

John,
One other possibility is the component output setting on your DVD deck.
Be sure it's set to 480P, not 480I or NTSC. The TV may not handle component
480I well.

"John" <John@no.spam> wrote in message
news:431bafc4.2622281731@news.west.cox.net...
> After seeing the sharp and colorful HDTV pictures on various DLP and
> LCD 50 and 52" HDTVs, I decided to buy a Mitsubishi. Since the model I
> wanted was sold out, I was offered a WD52725 open box in the back for
> $1500. None of the stores I went to would hook up a progressive scan
> DVD player to any TVs, but they all said it would look sharp and clear
> -- almost as good as the HDTV landscape channels they were showing.
>
> When I got it home and plugged in basic analog cable from the wall, as
> I expected I could not get any HDTV channels on the ATSC tuner. I
> hooked up my Panasonic DVD-S27 progressive scan player in 480p mode
> using the component video connection, and I did my best to adjust the
> settings (there are surprisingly few on this TV). Unfortunately every
> DVD I played looked bad. The picture was almost as dull and fuzzy as
> the very first rear projection TVs I avoided 5 years ago.
>
> To get a picture even close to watchable, I had to crank the
> sharpness, contrast, and brightness almost to max. Even then the
> picture was too dark, too soft and the colors washed out during movie
> playback, but for some reason static DVD menus looked nice and sharp.
> From the Return of the King to Ice Age to whatever movie I tried, I
> could barely stand the picture. My 5-year old $700 36" Toshiba direct
> view tube TV makes the picture on this Mitsubishi look like a joke.
>
> Considering the HDTVs looked so good in the stores, I'm assuming I
> must be doing something wrong or have gotten a defective unit.
>
> Does anyone have any ideas what could be wrong before I send this unit
> back as defective and try a new Sony KDFE50A10 for $500 more? I really
> would like to be able to keep this set for $1500 if it were watchable.
> I could live with the loud fan noise (even when the TV is off) and
> numerous specks of dirt trapped under the screen, but not this dull
> picture.
>
> Never having seen progressive scan 480p on a DLP or LCD HDTV, am I
> wrong to expect clarity and sharpness like a HDTV broadcast or close
> to my old Toshiba tube TV?
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 3:55:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,rec.video (More info?)

John@no.spam (John) wrote in news:431bafc4.2622281731@news.west.cox.net:

> After seeing the sharp and colorful HDTV pictures on various DLP and
> LCD 50 and 52" HDTVs, I decided to buy a Mitsubishi. Since the model I
> wanted was sold out, I was offered a WD52725 open box in the back for
> $1500. None of the stores I went to would hook up a progressive scan
> DVD player to any TVs, but they all said it would look sharp and clear
> -- almost as good as the HDTV landscape channels they were showing.
>
> When I got it home and plugged in basic analog cable from the wall, as
> I expected I could not get any HDTV channels on the ATSC tuner. I
> hooked up my Panasonic DVD-S27 progressive scan player in 480p mode
> using the component video connection, and I did my best to adjust the
> settings (there are surprisingly few on this TV). Unfortunately every
> DVD I played looked bad. The picture was almost as dull and fuzzy as
> the very first rear projection TVs I avoided 5 years ago.
>
> To get a picture even close to watchable, I had to crank the
> sharpness, contrast, and brightness almost to max. Even then the
> picture was too dark, too soft and the colors washed out during movie
> playback,

Try these settings. They come from the AVS forum. Basically what I've
used on my 52725

Magenta 36
Red 40
Yellow 29
Green 41
Cyan 33
Blue 31

Contrast 29
Brightness 46
Sharpness 21
Temp Low
Tint 28
Color 32
V Noise std
Edge on

You get to the color settings via the set up menu.
Related resources
September 6, 2005 7:06:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,rec.video (More info?)

On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 11:55:50 GMT, Dan Warren
<dwarren2.nospam@rochester.xx.rr.com> wrote:
>Try these settings. They come from the AVS forum. Basically what I've
>used on my 52725
>
>Magenta 36
>Red 40
>Yellow 29
>Green 41
>Cyan 33
>Blue 31
>
>Contrast 29
>Brightness 46
>Sharpness 21
>Temp Low
>Tint 28
>Color 32
>V Noise std
>Edge on
>
>You get to the color settings via the set up menu.

Thanks. I'll try these settings tonight.

By the way, as a followup to previous posts, I spent 2 more hours
trying to adjust the TV without having the above numbers. I was able
to borrow another progressive scan DVD player, but it was still a
Panasonic brand like mine... just a slightly older model. Both
Panasonics had identical pictures once I figured out how to enable
480p mode. I tried every possible picture mode on the DVD player.

The 52725 looked almost identical in either 480i or 480p mode. I think
the sharpness improved slightly in 480p, but the graininess also got
worse.

My most significant test was comparing the same movies with my old
Toshiba 36" direct view tube TV next to the 52725. I did my best to
adjust the colors and every possible setting, and I could not get
close to the Toshiba's sharpness and color. In particular, I couldn't
get good yellows no matter what I did to every color, and when I
watched the Simpsons they were greenish instead of yellow.

I also tried Hatari (a fairly grainy old movie) and the grain was
slightly noticeable on my Toshiba 36" but looked terrible on the Mits.
It seemed like every piece of grain was magnified greatly to the point
a little cluster of "dancing" grain on the Toshiba looked like a
cauldron of dark bubbling specks on the Mits. I assume it's the TV's
digital circuitry causing this.

I'll try Dan's settings tonight as my "last ditch" attempt to make the
52725 watchable, but short of a miracle my family and I agree in the
comparison that my old Toshiba makes the Mits look pretty weak.
Whether or not the Sony 3LCD will solve these problems or if RP HDTVs
just aren't up to my fussy standards (at least for non-HD video
sources) remains to be seen. Maybe I "jumped the gun" too soon and
should wait a few years until HD-DVDs are plentiful. Maybe no stores
in my area play DVD movies or analog cable on these HDTVs for
precisely the reason I observed (that they look so bad). Just my
opinions.
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 7:06:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,rec.video (More info?)

John wrote:
> On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 11:55:50 GMT, Dan Warren
> <dwarren2.nospam@rochester.xx.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>Try these settings. They come from the AVS forum. Basically what I've
>>used on my 52725
>>
>>Magenta 36
>>Red 40
>>Yellow 29
>>Green 41
>>Cyan 33
>>Blue 31
>>
>>Contrast 29
>>Brightness 46
>>Sharpness 21
>>Temp Low
>>Tint 28
>>Color 32
>>V Noise std
>>Edge on
>>
>>You get to the color settings via the set up menu.
>
>
> Thanks. I'll try these settings tonight.
>

Be sure to record your current settings before you change anything. All
of these settings are relative to the individual display, not against an
external standard. You might get very different results when using
settings derived from a different display.

--
Matthew

"All you need to start an asylum is an empty room and the right kind of
people" -- Alexander Bullock ("My Man Godfrey" 1936)
September 6, 2005 7:11:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,rec.video (More info?)

On Mon, 5 Sep 2005 17:36:07 -0700, "dj" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:

>John,
> One other possibility is the component output setting on your DVD deck.
>Be sure it's set to 480P, not 480I or NTSC. The TV may not handle component
>480I well.

Yes, I made sure of the most basic settings. I tried S-video vs.
component, 480p vs. 480i, 16x9 vs. 4:3 Letterbox, 2 different DVD
players (both Panasonics though), every transfer mode, and everything
else I could think of. As I mentioned in my previous post, I couldn't
see a big difference between 480p and 480i, but the TV clearly said
"480p Standard" or "480i Standard".

All that's left for me to try is Dan's 52725 settings. If they don't
improve it, I'm going to try the Sony KDFE50A10 (as long as the store
doesn't ding me more double delivery fees for that exchange) and if
that fails I'll give up on HDTVs for a while longer.
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 9:17:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,rec.video (More info?)

John@no.spam (John) wrote in news:431eb083.2753544868@news.west.cox.net:

> On Mon, 5 Sep 2005 17:36:07 -0700, "dj" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:

> All that's left for me to try is Dan's 52725 settings. If they don't
> improve it, I'm going to try the Sony KDFE50A10 (as long as the store
> doesn't ding me more double delivery fees for that exchange) and if
> that fails I'll give up on HDTVs for a while longer.
>
Out of the box my 52725 had a distinct green tinge in dark scenes also in
SD there was a halo around people's faces. You have to do the settings for
each input.

Hope this info helps.
September 7, 2005 7:48:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,rec.video (More info?)

On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 17:17:57 GMT, Dan Warren
<dwarren2.nospam@rochester.xx.rr.com> wrote:
>John@no.spam (John) wrote:
>> On Mon, 5 Sep 2005 17:36:07 -0700, "dj" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> All that's left for me to try is Dan's 52725 settings. If they don't
>> improve it, I'm going to try the Sony KDFE50A10 (as long as the store
>> doesn't ding me more double delivery fees for that exchange) and if
>> that fails I'll give up on HDTVs for a while longer.
>>
>Out of the box my 52725 had a distinct green tinge in dark scenes also in
>SD there was a halo around people's faces. You have to do the settings for
>each input.

Dan, I think my 52725 came the same way as yours. The yellows are
greenish, and no matter what I tried with my own settings or using all
of your suggested settings, I could not get acceptable yellows, and
I'm so used to watching The Simpsons as yellow that seeing them
greenish made it unwatchable. I even compared S-video to component
with all the same settings... I saw no significant difference (S-video
was slightly less sharp).

Your settings did improve the graininess/blockiness a bit and made
things look better overall at the sacrifice of brightness, but even
with your better settings this set isn't good enough for me to watch
in SD (480p DVDs). I even bought an official 8' Monster component
cable for $45 (which I will be returning soon) as a few people at work
told me the 3 6-foot 75 ohm video cables (made in China) that I bought
at $3 each might be the cause of my poor picture. I was skeptical of
that, but I wanted to say I had tried every possibility. Exactly as I
expected, I couldn't notice any difference in picture quality between
the Monster component cables vs. my cheap video cables.

I already called the store and they are supposed to call me when they
get some Sony KDFE50A10 TVs in stock. After the fact, the salesman
told me I may be expecting too much from a HD RPTV in 480p mode. This
time they may allow me to bring my DVD player to try on the Sony
in-store once they get them in stock. Unless the Sony is a lot better
than the Mitsubishi (which I doubt) in SD mode, I'll probably go back
to my 5 year old 36" Toshiba tube TV and be out $60 for the delivery.

Dan, I assume that either you are able to watch 480p DVDs on your
52725 with the settings you posted or you mainly use your TV for
watching HD channels? In the store, HD looked great on these sets, but
at home I can't get HD and SD looks pretty bad, and I found that
non-anamorphic SD DVDs looked even worse than the anamorphic ones.
With those I could see double-edges on many horizontal lines, even on
good transfers.

I appreciate your and everyone else's help on this.
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 4:26:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,rec.video (More info?)

John@no.spam (John) wrote in news:431f0776.2841339870@news.west.cox.net:

>
>
> Dan, I assume that either you are able to watch 480p DVDs on your
> 52725 with the settings you posted or you mainly use your TV for
> watching HD channels?

Actually we watch a lot of SD TV. Question, is it just your dvd's that
look bad or do you have the same problem on other inputs. Did you do the
calibrations for each video source? Did you change the ouput from the DVD
player to 480P?
!