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Phenom 9850 v Q6600 For Fun System

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July 24, 2008 2:35:28 AM

Ok, Im thinking about upgrading my Stupid ECS motherboard because of the lack of OCing options and general crappiness. So, I was thinking, If I'm going to get a new mobo, why not a new CPU? I really want to get into this whole quad-core arena and these are the options i have come up with...
AMD
X4 9850 BE @ the egg for $205 (prolly be cheaper by the time i actually buy this stuff)
Mobo---http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
RAM--- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

My cooler is fine and my psu should handle this stuff so im not worried about that. Size does matter, id like to keep a M-ATX size. total about $380.

INTEL
Q6600 (Duh)
MOBO---http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Ram--- some cheap ddr2 800 4gb kit.
probably around $340

I'm not exactly looking for the fastest system but something that i can have fun tinkering with. I'm the kind of guy who opens the hood of his car every day to see if there is something to mess with. I might have a problem. :)  Oddly enough, performance isn't the first priority as i know both will smoke my little e4400 and shouldn't bottleneck my 8800gs like my e4400 does.
I know this is a weird post but please leave some feedback. I am not too knowledgeable with AMD.
thanks!
July 24, 2008 2:52:35 AM

id say get a better set of ram if going with AMD. After MIR, 4GB of XMS2 from Corsair is $66.50, with a lower voltage and same timings. As I am a slight AMD fan, I'd recommend the AMD. But to be honest, if you plan on OC'ing, as you said you like to tinker (I like to tinker too. Its how i fried the HD on my last system, which made me by the one I'm on now.) go with the Intel, as for now the Intel will OC to past 3 GHz. But if you want something that is rock solid for years to come (I'm not saying the Intel isn't) and don't plan on OC'ing, go with the AMD.
July 24, 2008 3:13:11 AM

customisbetter said:
Ok, Im thinking about upgrading my Stupid ECS motherboard because of the lack of OCing options and general crappiness. So, I was thinking, If I'm going to get a new mobo, why not a new CPU? I really want to get into this whole quad-core arena and these are the options i have come up with...
AMD
X4 9850 BE @ the egg for $205 (prolly be cheaper by the time i actually buy this stuff)
Mobo---http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
RAM--- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

My cooler is fine and my psu should handle this stuff so im not worried about that. Size does matter, id like to keep a M-ATX size. total about $380.

INTEL
Q6600 (Duh)
MOBO---http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Ram--- some cheap ddr2 800 4gb kit.
probably around $340

I'm not exactly looking for the fastest system but something that i can have fun tinkering with. I'm the kind of guy who opens the hood of his car every day to see if there is something to mess with. I might have a problem. :)  Oddly enough, performance isn't the first priority as i know both will smoke my little e4400 and shouldn't bottleneck my 8800gs like my e4400 does.
I know this is a weird post but please leave some feedback. I am not too knowledgeable with AMD.
thanks!



With the 790GX motherboards coming for Phenom, either choice will give you 3.2GHz with basically unnoticeable differences in everyday use. Toss a coin.
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July 24, 2008 3:21:37 AM

BaronMatrix said:
With the 790GX motherboards coming for Phenom, either choice will give you 3.2GHz with basically unnoticeable differences in everyday use. Toss a coin.


lol
July 24, 2008 3:44:46 AM

I would definitely stick with the Q6600.No offense,but AMD has been really disappointing me.Plus,you would be saving money.
July 24, 2008 4:00:00 AM

If you enjoy overclocking at all I would consider the Q6600. It has a lot more overclocking potential..especially with the G0 revision it isn't impossible to reach 3.4 to 3.6ghz on air cooling.
July 24, 2008 4:10:55 AM

cory1234 said:
If you enjoy overclocking at all I would consider the Q6600. It has a lot more overclocking potential..especially with the G0 revision it isn't impossible to reach 3.4 to 3.6ghz on air cooling.


According to Anand's recent review this kind of overclock is also easily attainable with a 9850 and an SB750 motherboard. http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3360&p=4


July 24, 2008 4:16:45 AM

yea go with the Q6600 definetly. Like u said, u like tinkering with your stuff, and the Q6600 is perfect for that. It is at 2.4 GHz, but it can be OCed to 3.2 easily. And its intel so u cant go wrong there.
July 24, 2008 4:24:45 AM

falconzfan007 said:
yea go with the Q6600 definetly. Like u said, u like tinkering with your stuff, and the Q6600 is perfect for that. It is at 2.4 GHz, but it can be OCed to 3.2 easily. And its intel so u cant go wrong there.


I would strongly recommend reading the Anandtech article on the SB750 motherboards and Phenom overclocking. If you like tinkering with the settings then it definitely looks like the phenom rig with an SB750 motherboard will give you far more settings to play with. According to the review 3.0 Ghz is attainable on the 9850 with no voltage increase and the writers are still tinkering with the settings trying to get more out of it.

a b à CPUs
July 24, 2008 4:51:57 AM

That may be the case, or they may have gotten lucky. No guarantees. The Q6600 on the other hand is an old, proven overclocker, which can get to 3.2 GHz with almost zero effort. I'd stick with the Q6600, at least until there is a larger sample size with the Phenom + SB750.
July 24, 2008 4:58:46 AM

Q6600 all the way. Everyone seems to have missed this:

customisbetter said:
My cooler is fine and my psu should handle this stuff so im not worried about that. Size does matter, id like to keep a M-ATX size.


That means no SB750 for him. And besides even with the SB750 the Q6600 is still cheaper since the SB750 motherboards will most likely be pretty costly.
July 24, 2008 5:16:22 AM

They aren't making a m-ATX size? That sure sucks...
O well, i guess my case is a little dumpy and could go. I just haven't found a case that i like yet that is also within my budget. $100+ for a box seems kind of unreasonable to me.
July 24, 2008 5:54:17 AM

amd + ati for life
July 24, 2008 6:06:45 AM

If you want to have fun Tinkering, go with the 9850/9950 on a 790fx+sb750, or 790gx+sb750 board. If you get a board to has p-states settings in the bios, there is no end of tinkering with the Core clocks, and nb/IMC speeds on the phenom black editions. You can get a good mid tower for around $60, even at retail brick and mortar shops. And if you go that way, I can tell you how the p-states options work.

If you just want an easy OC, then go with the q6600, though from what I've seen there are no guarantee's there either, see too many people complaining of not being able to get past 3.0 even with g0.
July 24, 2008 6:18:47 AM

customisbetter said:
They aren't making a m-ATX size? That sure sucks...
O well, i guess my case is a little dumpy and could go. I just haven't found a case that i like yet that is also within my budget. $100+ for a box seems kind of unreasonable to me.


There will be m-ATX versions. People suggesting otherwise don't know what they're talking about. There were some m-ATX versions of the 790GX motherboards with SB750 shown at Computex from the likes of DFI. http://www.tweaktown.com/news/9640/amd_s_upcoming_790gx_mobos_get_an_early_showing/index.html Check out the DFI LANPARTY JR discussed at the bottom of the page. IF DFI will be making an m-ATX version it is likely that other vendors will too.
July 24, 2008 8:18:39 AM

I would definitely recommend Q6600. In the case that you DO overclock, Q6600 requires less voltage to achieve higher clockspeed, compared to Phenom. Not to mention that Q6600 is about on average 10% faster than Phenom at the same clock, and dissipates a lot less heat.
a c 107 à CPUs
July 24, 2008 12:20:01 PM

I have a GA-G33M-DS2R waiting for a new brain after putting the e6750 I had in a rig for my father. It has lots of OC options, but I did not use them much, because the NB got really hot. I have read that this can be a problem on the micro boards, but I otherwise really like this one.
July 24, 2008 12:47:06 PM

cjl said:
That may be the case, or they may have gotten lucky. No guarantees. The Q6600 on the other hand is an old, proven overclocker, which can get to 3.2 GHz with almost zero effort. I'd stick with the Q6600, at least until there is a larger sample size with the Phenom + SB750.


I might also add that the Q6600 will beat the Phenom Clock for Clock.
So the Phenoms while getting faster, still can't run at the same clock as the Q6600.
So while they are getting closer in clock, they will still seriously lag.

For the Posters, I would consider a Mobo and GPU upgrade.
Not a Mobo and CPU upgrade.

When OC'd the E4400 should not be bottlenecking your 8800GS.
The 8800GS is not that powerful of a GPU.

I would look at something likst the Gigabytes DS3L or current replacement model which should run about $90. Then get a really nice ATI4850 which will be a massive boost to your performance.

July 24, 2008 12:50:46 PM

Unless it's cheaper there is no reason not to go with a Q6600.
July 24, 2008 1:14:22 PM

Pick up a Q6600 $184 put on an Artic pro 7 cooler for $27 and get 3.2-3.4ghz. Newegg has an ASUS P5K pro bundled with a cheap but decent looking Rosewill case for $139. The P5K is a great OC board so so 3.2-3.4ghz should be a breeze.
July 24, 2008 1:16:51 PM

The benefit for AMD is that the Socket AM2+ will be around for a while, and will have good compatibility for a few years to come. Intel will get all new mobos after skt 775.

It just depends on what you want and how much you like to tinker.

I have a 9850 and MSI K9A2 Platinum.....they pair very well, and I have gotten my phenom to 3.0ghz. I tinker everyday to see what else I can squeeze out. It performs like a champ and I am content with it.


Cheers

-PM
July 24, 2008 1:19:54 PM

th_username said:
amd + ati for life


is there absolutely any useful input in your post??

back to the topic at hand...I was in the same boat as you, plus or minus a few details. i ended up going with the q6600. granted i have watercooling, but i got mine to 3.6 quite easily. at 400fsb with a 9 multiplier, my 3dmark06 cpu score is a hair over 5700 (in xp)
a c 123 à CPUs
July 24, 2008 1:34:34 PM

customisbetter said:
They aren't making a m-ATX size? That sure sucks...
O well, i guess my case is a little dumpy and could go. I just haven't found a case that i like yet that is also within my budget. $100+ for a box seems kind of unreasonable to me.


I know what you mean but trust me the case is a very important. I used to think of staying below $100 but if you want superior cooling, cable management and it to look nice you will have to spend a bit more. I have a ok case right now but plan on getting the Thernaltake Xaser VI (check it out it is sweet) later on. It has great cooling, is set up for water cooling (plug and play), and even has filters for the intake fans amongst other things. A bit expensive but will help you keep your rig cooler (especially when OCing) and looks great too.

yomamafor1 said:
I would definitely recommend Q6600. In the case that you DO overclock, Q6600 requires less voltage to achieve higher clockspeed, compared to Phenom. Not to mention that Q6600 is about on average 10% faster than Phenom at the same clock, and dissipates a lot less heat.


^Until this is proven different this is still true.

For the OP I suggest the Q6600. Yes the Phenom has more things to mess with (and more things to potentially mess up) but overall the Q6600 will OC easily where as the Phenom does need that SB750 mobo to be able to OC like that. That and I think you will have to wait a while for the new AMD SB750 mobos to come. DO they even have a date for that?
July 24, 2008 3:39:13 PM

Just_An_Engineer said:
There will be m-ATX versions. People suggesting otherwise don't know what they're talking about. There were some m-ATX versions of the 790GX motherboards with SB750 shown at Computex from the likes of DFI. http://www.tweaktown.com/news/9640/amd_s_upcoming_790gx_mobos_get_an_early_showing/index.html Check out the DFI LANPARTY JR discussed at the bottom of the page. IF DFI will be making an m-ATX version it is likely that other vendors will too.


Apparently you do not know what your talking about. The m-ATX motherboards with SB750 as of now are going to hit the market a month or 2 after the 790GX, that's an even LARGER wait. You are really starting to annoy me with the insults and flame baiting you have been doing recently, please stop.
July 24, 2008 4:02:22 PM

I'm surprised someone actually made a thread about this. The Q6600 is CHEAPER and it OUTPERFORMS the phenom, now is that so difficult to understand?
July 24, 2008 4:05:11 PM

Well in theory it may out perform the Q6600 at higher clocks of 3.0+... but then the SB750 MB costs... yeah...
July 24, 2008 5:24:52 PM

@Raven
I did say that i was going to wait a little while before i bought this stuff so you don't have to hate the engineer. Sorry if i didn't communicate that well enough. Yeah i am still really undecided and the anandtech article is not helping. And what are they talking about with this" product of which we cannot name". Is the the new southbridge or is it something else?
July 24, 2008 5:53:06 PM

Hmmm, why don't you guys just go to the guys house, and shove an Intel rig down his throat, that might be easier than posting on this forum.

I see a lot of people that have never actually used either the phenom, or the q6600. I'm no better at that myself, as I've never built a system with a q6600. Well, at least not yet anyway, if I had more money to be able to do so, I'd have my own computer shop. All they know how to do is go look at cpu charts, and go well, according to these charts this processor performs better than that processor by XX%. Let me tell you something about benchmark charts on these websites. They mean jack crap in real operation on your desktop. For example, this page right here from the thg 4870 review, says that I shouldn't be able to play Mass effect at 1680x1050 on my 3870 with 4xAA and 16xAF http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-4870,1964...
Yet, I've somehow managed to play through the entire game at those settings, with no slowdown whatsoever, regardless of the area I was in. In fact I had to enable Vsync to cut down on screen tearing. But, yet according to their benchmark, I should barely be able to get playable FPS without AA and AF let alone being able to play with them enabled.

Most of those benchmarks you see on the web are on ES boards many of which still have old prerelease bios's, when they use the 790fx boards. I've especially notice that with some of the chinese sites. Most of which the performance has improved drastically on with every bios release. Or they're based on Nvidia based boards.

Rant over, but you know what I'm getting at here. I'd put my system up against an equivalent system from THG any day. I don't normally post like that, and you know it.
July 24, 2008 6:03:27 PM

Thanks Mathos for the alternate perspective. I kind of forgot about that.
Just out of curiosity, what temp does your Phenom run at? Iv got the zerotherm btf-90, kinda like your cooler.
July 24, 2008 6:15:57 PM

customisbetter said:
Thanks Mathos for the alternate perspective. I kind of forgot about that.
Just out of curiosity, what temp does your Phenom run at? Iv got the zerotherm btf-90, kinda like your cooler.


Here in Texas, when it's warm out and my apartment hovers around 80-85f in my living room. It hovers around 32c idle, never goes over 50c full loaded under prime95. During the winter it stays much cooler, never goes much over 40c then.
a c 123 à CPUs
July 24, 2008 6:26:25 PM

^I experience that as well. But I have the AZ desert heat and it can get almost 90f.

I also agree with your statement on charts. People look at the Radeon HD2900 series and think its crap. Funny thing is my 2900Pro 1GB does better than a 2900XT even when I have mine at stock speeds.

As for CPUs, well all computers, you can make what seems like a bad rig work like a dam good rig if you give it the right parts together.
July 24, 2008 7:16:49 PM

yomamafor1 said:
I would definitely recommend Q6600. In the case that you DO overclock, Q6600 requires less voltage to achieve higher clockspeed, compared to Phenom. Not to mention that Q6600 is about on average 10% faster than Phenom at the same clock, and dissipates a lot less heat.



Hey I just noticed your sig. It's kind of funny in that if a customer isn't familiar with X3 they'll ask what the ad means. Then the salesman has to tell them. I can see people go "oooh an extra core. Sounds great. Sign me up."

:pt1cable: 
July 24, 2008 7:18:33 PM

@zenmaster
I would really like to get a quad first because i am getting more and more dependent on music editing and compressing and decompressing large files. I do plan on upgrading my GPU at the end of the year and will probably get a 9800 gtx+. " NOOOO!!! GET A 48XX!!!" I Like the cooler on the Green one better. There is a reason for you.
July 24, 2008 7:24:53 PM

modtech said:
I'm surprised someone actually made a thread about this. The Q6600 is CHEAPER and it OUTPERFORMS the phenom, now is that so difficult to understand?



As a platform, AMD is better right now, even with an IGP. You will get a clear upgrade path to AM3 chips and 790GX is due next week. For the most part all mobo manufs have to do is replace the So.Bridge and test for 790FX(no IGP). The IGP boards still use the same No. Bridge.

Like I said, toss a coin. I don't really recommend OCing, but either way THERE IS NO DISCERNIBLE DIFFERENCE IN EVERYDAY PERF. Is that so difficult to understand? A few points in 3D Mark means nothing in CrySis. Besides, you have to be an idiot to fill up a hard drive with something that comes on a disk. Yes, that's a knock against DivX maniacs. Why not just lobby for DivX encoded versions?
July 24, 2008 7:38:18 PM

So the FX has no IGP? thus its cheaper right? I don't really need integrated graphics so i guess i will be going that route. Thanks for the tip Baron!
a c 123 à CPUs
July 24, 2008 8:00:18 PM

^Sorry to burst your bubble but if you build a new system (mobo and CPU) between the 9850 and Q6600 they are the same price (+/- a few bucks).

Thats with mobos that support the same stuff. No need to put the highest end chipset mobo with it.
July 24, 2008 8:12:10 PM

what do you mean? I would prefer to get above 3 ghz and i believe that would require the new sb700 right?
a c 123 à CPUs
July 24, 2008 8:18:14 PM

Ok. Look ta my Sig. Its a Q6600 @ 3GHz 24/7 on a Asus P5K-E mobo. Its a nicely priced P35 mobo. Compared to a X38/P45/X48 mobo its nice.

You can also easily OC to well above 3GHz on that mobo and a Q6600. Its very nice and easy to tweak.
July 24, 2008 8:18:31 PM

Ok here is what I want you to do OP. Get some blue paint and some green paint. Now get a slice of Rye bread, NO SEEDS!!! Paint one side of the slice blue and paint the other green. Now I want you to go find the NEWEST car in the neighborhood and toss the painted slice of bread up in the air so it falls on the car. Now when you remove the slice of bread if the paint on the car is blue, then go get the Q6600. If it is green get the 9850 and the SB750 later down the road.

Or you could go with a Via system just to shake things up a bit!
July 24, 2008 8:33:04 PM

well according to my raven's paint test i am getting a 9850. My first test was hard to discern as the bread landed on a blue car. Since the paint could not be easily seen, the test was executed again on a nice white vehicle. This gave a clear conclusion that the phenom would be the better solution. Thanks raven and i now feel much more confident in spending my money.
The bottom line is that my 945g is going away, so its a good day for the entire community... other than the owners of the aforementioned vehicles that now have some serious confusion going on.
a c 123 à CPUs
July 24, 2008 9:02:48 PM

Ok so just to be clear your are going for the Phenom, correct?
July 24, 2008 9:05:05 PM

Yeah probably. I will have to wait about a month to have the money and by then the new SB700 will be out. The question then becomes, should i wait for deneb? Probably won't though. Thanks guys!
a c 123 à CPUs
July 24, 2008 9:25:11 PM

^Deneb I think is late this year. But if you noticed Intels Nehalem is coming out In October. 2 months and you will have a different choice to decide between. And considering the 2.666GHz part should be around $300 bucks you might want to hold off just a bit.
July 24, 2008 9:28:15 PM

thats still 100 more than the x4 and ill have to get a new motherboard anyway. not to mention the bugs that could be in there since its the first generation. I think i will stick with the phenom rather than core 3.
July 24, 2008 9:34:11 PM

Nehalem should be rather bug free, but its all what you can afford. Since you most likely don't feel like buying DDR3 RAM, then Nehalem is most likely a bad idea.
July 24, 2008 9:50:05 PM

Oh yeah the ddr3 ram is also a problem. Hey is 1066 ddr2 worth it? Or should i get 800 and overclock it? I know AMD is memory ?intensive? (maybe dependent is better). So faster memory would give decent performance boost like the larger cache does with intel?
July 24, 2008 9:50:48 PM

The_Blood_Raven said:
Apparently you do not know what your talking about. The m-ATX motherboards with SB750 as of now are going to hit the market a month or 2 after the 790GX, that's an even LARGER wait. You are really starting to annoy me with the insults and flame baiting you have been doing recently, please stop.


I apologize if I offended you, as that was not my intent.

In your previous post you suggested that there would not be any mATX boards with SB750 at all, not that they would just be out at a later date. I said that you were wrong and provided a link to an article showing an mATX motherboard with SB750 that was being shown at Computex by DFI. I suppose that I could have used some more diplomatic wording than saying you didn't know what you were talking about, but I hardly think that is an insult.

If you are suggesting that I have been trolling the message boards insulting people and flame baiting then I assure you that you are mistaken. I have never once personally attacked another poster and certainly don't flame bait. I may often have a differing opinion from some of the other posters in a thread but I always try to have solid reasoning behind my opinions.

I'm sorry if my posts "annoy" you. Please feel free to not read them if it bothers you so much.
July 24, 2008 9:53:21 PM

jimmysmitty said:
^Deneb I think is late this year. But if you noticed Intels Nehalem is coming out In October. 2 months and you will have a different choice to decide between. And considering the 2.666GHz part should be around $300 bucks you might want to hold off just a bit.


I'm still not sure I believe the quoted $284 price for the 2.66 GHz Nehalem. Certainly would be great if it does turn out that way. I'm a little concerned about what the new motherboards might cost. Given that this will be the enthusiast targeted Nehalem I wouldn't be surprised to see the motherboard prices be quite high indeed.
July 24, 2008 9:54:40 PM

customisbetter said:
What is "flame baiting"?


Flame baiting, at least as I understand it is posting intentionally inflamatory comments with the intent of starting an argument.
!