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HD 4870 CrossFire Review!

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June 26, 2008 5:37:07 PM

Nice post, seems the 4870 is really impressing people. It has some solid frames on alot of the games i play :)  It seems they could make them better, as mentioned in the article:

"This is the tell tale sign of excessive leakage (anyone else thinking about the Prescott days?) and while it doesn't impact performance it makes things hot."

Get the wattage down, get the heat down and this would be even more attractable. Have to admit, great job to AMD! Just get your CPU's back up to spec.

It seems to me:

1. A company releases the fastest product
2. The company goes lazy, keeps producing same spec products
3. The competitor comes with the latest fastest product and steals the market

You can see this with AMD (Athlon 64 series) over taken by Intel (Core 2 series) and then AMD is fighting back (x4 series).

Also

Ati had a good postiton in the market, ran down by nVidia (8800 series) and now ATi/AMD are making there comes back while nVidia makes silly priced cards and gone lazy with there development.

Maybe it just takes AMD two attempts,

-3800 series then the "4800 series rules"
-Phenom then the "xxxxxx should rule"

It seems to be a never ending circle! Some of you are going to think im barking :\

Great for development though!

Kinda gone off topic there :(  sorry

kkthanksbye
June 26, 2008 5:54:52 PM

tri sli on GTX280 is a waste of money, power, and energy.
Related resources
June 26, 2008 5:55:41 PM

Quote:
GTX280 still beats it tho, especially SLI and TRI-SLI



Yah...but the price difference is more than a little.

even dual sli GTX280s, and youre in $1300. Thats not pocket change for most.

Crossfire 4870s is the same price as 1, yes 1, GTX280.
June 26, 2008 5:59:28 PM

CF 4870s is cheaper then GTX 280 by $49.
June 26, 2008 6:22:40 PM

Quote:
well for people looking for highest performances as possible he/she would get 280 SLI over CFX 4870. not to mention 4800-series is known for cooking your PC components with its high idle temp. 80*C +++


Performance is one issue, your second point is ludicrous, seeing as the 4870 has hardly been around long enough to be known for anything, and system cooling is not a big issue for those who are competent.
June 26, 2008 6:28:24 PM

Can't wait for better drivers and crossfire issues being sorted
June 26, 2008 6:29:48 PM

Why did the 4850 get better performance in Crossfire than the 4870 on Crysis, Very High all 1920? Also, I'm worried about what they mention here:
Quote:
At 1920x1200 with very high quality settings and no AA we were almost able to reach 30FPS for the first time ever when running CrossFire on the Radeon HD 4870 video cards. Performance at the other resolutions was actually lower than single card, so ATI has some driver tweaking to do here.


Plus the fact that a single GTX280 outperformed both the 4850 and 4870 in CF in medium and high settings (and came close in very high) worries me as well. Call it poor driver optimization, or whatever else, but quite honestly with as easily as every other game can be dominated with even 2 8-series card SLI, Crysis really is the game to be performing well in for these new cards. For those of us who value performance, to see not one but two of these 4 series cards still essentially struggling in Crysis at only 1920 (with apparent issues at higher resolutions?), it's pretty obvious that ATI may have stepped up their game for the "mid range budget build" to compete against Nvidia's low end cards, but they haven't done much else. The whole point of SLI is to get that extra edge, and high end performance, so it's kind of hilarious to me to see Crossfire appearing to be the poor man's SLI so to speak.

When the GTX280's come down to the 8800 GTX/Ultra price, they'll be great cards and worth buying for those who aren't already using 8 series SLI. I have a feeling it's going to be a long, LONG while before ATI steps up in the performance, higher end category, and even then it'll be pretty mickey mouse. 4870x2 will probably perform pretty well, but considering how poorly the 4870 is performing in crysis, I'd be anxious to see a benchmark of 2 4870x2's vs. 3 way SLI GTX280's.

The lack of emphasis on Crysis for most benchmarks is really disappointing, considering just about every other game isn't really a challenge. Who cares about 125 fps vs. 100 fps?
June 26, 2008 6:38:19 PM

"We had high hopes for the dual-slot cooler on the Radeon HD 4870, but at 83C under load it didn't seem to take the edge off. " Legit Reviews

My current 8800GTS (G92) is running at 42C at full load and my office still gets hot. 83C seems to be outrageously high. I was excited about this card until I read that. I like my computer and do not want to cook it.
June 26, 2008 6:41:48 PM

ronka, i am reading lot of threads since the beginning of the day and the only thing I have to say is STFU.

You are pushing too much on the GTX280. It's not a bad card, it just not worth the money. Stop bashing ATI, it's a well better investment for the price/performance.

You have 32 posts, the half is against ATI HD4800, please get a life. Sleep with your **** video card if you want and leave the forum.

Also stop putting FUD about core temps.
June 26, 2008 6:44:40 PM

Quote:
well for people looking for highest performances as possible he/she would get 280 SLI over CFX 4870. not to mention 4800-series is known for cooking your PC components with its high idle temp. 80*C +++


uh ronka, the gtx 280 gets very hot as well, the die for god sakes is much bigger, it still costs much much more, just b/c the 48xx series gets a little hot, it's the only thing ppl can pin on ati, besides that little facet, the 48xx series kills the gtx 280 in terms of price/performance, silly noob, that is more important...

just b/c the gtx280 is more powerful, doesn't really mean much, freakin crack-whores... :lol: 

heck if you throw a lot of money at just about anything, it will make it faster...but if u can offer that product at a competitive price then you will get praised for it, b/c that is in the consumers best interest num nuts... : :D 
June 26, 2008 6:46:43 PM

and lol b4 anybody says anything I always praise what is best for the consumer meaning price/performance.

and am using a G92 right now, and am pleased with it, but in my next build I am heavily considering a 4870, possibly a 4870x2 [well when benchies come in], just b/c I could...lol
June 26, 2008 6:50:15 PM

Just wait for ATI to release its new optimized CF drivers!
a b U Graphics card
June 26, 2008 6:50:29 PM

Its so sad nVidia creates a card getting beat in some games by a 200 dollar card. And looking at some of the sli performance is pathetic, at 1300 dollars too. I wish nVidia had done it better. Their 450 dollar card is consistently being beat out by a 300 dollar card. Its a shame. By July its only going to get worse, as the release of the x2 from ATI, which nVidia has no option for at all, will see many driver improvements. The G280 has less innovations going from G92 than the 4xxx series does coming from the 3xxx series, which is obvious when you see ATIs low end part sometimes beating nVidias highend
June 26, 2008 6:50:37 PM

Quote:
we all know 42C is damn hot, and 83 is just insane. i cant even take 32*C when walking out side

Yeah good thing chips are made of silicon and metal, not flesh and water! :sarcastic: 

Idle temp is high because PowerPlay isn't working properly right now, a driver update will fix it. Load temps are high because the fan isn't ramping up enough, early enough. A driver update will fix it.

4870: $300
2x 4870 in Crossfire: $600
GTX280: $660

'nuff said.
June 26, 2008 6:52:27 PM

hey ronka you've a friend : Monsta, stupid as you...
June 26, 2008 6:59:11 PM

I gotta say, I'm really impressed with the Ati 4xxx series cards. I havent used an Ati card since my Radeon 9800 wouldnt play Oblivion. The price/performance ratio is great and it will really cause Nvidia to lower their prices or be overwhelmed by users flocking midrange cards for less than half the price of their flagship.

Being an 8800GT SLI user, i would love to see that setup thrown into the benchmarks, or ANY SLI setup for that matter.

Well done ATI, its good to have you back. Even though I dont plan on buying any of your cards in the near future, I'd like to see you make your green rival drop their prices.
June 26, 2008 6:59:41 PM

sisley_111 said:
ronka, i am reading lot of threads since the beginning of the day and the only thing I have to say is STFU.

You are pushing too much on the GTX280. It's not a bad card, it just not worth the money. Stop bashing ATI, it's a well better investment for the price/performance.

You have 32 posts, the half is against ATI HD4800, please get a life. Sleep with your **** video card if you want and leave the forum.

Also stop putting FUD about core temps.

Can we not start the ATI vs. Nvidia fanboy nonsense? Both sides have positives and negatives with their latest cards, but ultimately both have been extremely disappointing. Nvidia for the outrageous price, and ATI for... well, everything else. I personally don't give a rat's ass which company I buy cards from, but I'm going to be damn scrutinizing for both sides. Right now, honestly, ATI has had a good release for low-mid range cards and budget builds, but nothing else. Their Crysis performance in the benches so far has been embarrassing. You obviously seem to like ATI, that's fine, but don't turn this into an ATI/Nvidia ****. There's a reason bipartisan politics sucks so much ass, it's because they both have the other side labeled as X or Y, so they don't listen to each other anymore.

ATI Fan huh? HE MUST NOT KNOW WHAT HES TALKING ABOUT! Likes Nvidia? STFU!

Anyway...
Quote:
4870: $300
2x 4870 in Crossfire: $600
GTX280: $660

$60 to not waste the extra PCIe slot, and be able to upgrade to SLI when the GTX280 comes down in price? Seems worth it to me, others might not agree.

Remember that this is the 4870 512MB, which to me seems kinda lame. I want to see how the 1GB compares, and then the 4870x2. The ultimate test will be 2x 4870x2's vs. 3way GTX280. Right now the 3 way GTX280 seems to pretty much own crysis at 51fps avg 1920x1200 very high everything, and 38fps avg at 2560x1600 very high everything. This is with new drivers. I've seen a significant boost just over the past 6 months with driver releases for the 8 series, so it'll be damn exciting to see how more of a boost we'll see for Crysis. If the 4870x2 can step up, ATI will win over the performance gamers, but otherwise they'll still be left in the dust and just beating Nvidia's low end cards in price with their high end ones.

Also, let me say that 83c is unacceptable. Even in Tri SLI with 3 8800GTX's sitting right on **** top of each other, I've yet to see any of my cards pass 74c at full with the initial thermal paste, and 68 after using AS5. 68 is already wayyyy hotter than I'd like it, but they're warm cards, and they put off so much damn heat into the room. I don't care who you are, if your vid card is hitting 80c, you've got a hybrid computer/ezbake oven and you may as well cook some brownies or cookies on that sucker while it still works. You won't be seeing the usual "ATI has the advantage with overclocking" arguments if that kind of temperature is an accurate measurement of the 4 series 2 months from now.
a b U Graphics card
June 26, 2008 7:00:47 PM

So when are you buying these G280s?
June 26, 2008 7:06:07 PM

Quote:
Well thats the problem, im made of flesh and water, i cant take 85*C from my pc that will affect the heat in my room. it probably would make my room hotter than 30*C. thats insane.

:sarcastic: 

That's all I have to say about that.
a b U Graphics card
June 26, 2008 7:07:37 PM

Its too bad ATI currently has only the 2nd fastest card. Maybe with a tweak itll go 1st
June 26, 2008 7:10:06 PM

4870x2 will be the fastest card I hope.
June 26, 2008 7:15:56 PM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
So when are you buying these G280s?

Once I see 2 4870x2's in CF. I don't care about the best bang for my buck, I want the best bang for my PCIe slot :) 

How's your business going? All this heat must be driving up lemonade sales :D 
June 26, 2008 7:17:07 PM

Quote:
The 280 SLI already smokes it.LOL


For the price of how many 4870???
June 26, 2008 7:18:02 PM

hey ronka when you leave the lights on in your room, maybe about 100-150 watts from bulb and halogen lamp, does the temps rise?

You're so dumb about temp. The card consume the same as a bulb, do you really think it's going to raise your room's temp as high?

To Oh Snap:
Yes I prefer ATI, but by the last year, I have no choice but to recommend nVidia for gamers, depending of people's budget. Right now, ATI is the way to go. And stupid nVidia fanboy cannot just take it. That's why this kind of post pisses me off.
June 26, 2008 7:19:16 PM

Since the R600 launch, AMDs one and only answer to EVERYTHING has been "Well release a new driver"...
And did anything happen even once? No.

Face it fanpois, the 4000 series failed to attack nVidias leadership. Not only did it fail, but in some points it makes the 280 even look darn good (temps, noise, power).
Thank god that AMD knew that their cards wouldnt cut it and positioned them as solid midrange products, a concept that does hold true for the 4850, but not for the 4870.
June 26, 2008 7:20:31 PM

romulus47plus1 said:
For the price of how many 4870???

If you can fit 5+ 4870's into a case, let me know, because this argument runs thin when you've only realistically got 2 or 3 slots to work with.
Consider upgrading in the future. With a GTX280, as outrageously priced as it may be, you've got the option go to 2 or 3x SLI in the future when prices come down, which would last for a very, very long time. You pop a couple 4870's in there, sure you could crossfire them with a 4870x2, but then you've really got 1 and a half cards. Just seems kinda mickey mouse to me. Just IMO.
June 26, 2008 7:21:36 PM

sisley_111 said:
And stupid nVidia fanboy cannot just take it. That's why this kind of post pisses me off.


Well no need to put the word stupid, but I hate this post too, too much fanboyism.
a b U Graphics card
June 26, 2008 7:21:45 PM

Its also a shame that nVidia is getting such poor yields. And implementing their UMAP has had disastrous effects on their AIB partners. I find it ironic that ATIs partners let out their parts too soon, and yet I find this http://www.tcmagazine.com/comments.php?shownews=20575&c... and see they dont want to sell nVidia exclusively anymore, thus nVidia loses a partner. And with this http://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-physx-ati,5764.... they dont have evclusivity using physics in Vantage anymore. nVidia is in a world of hurt right now
June 26, 2008 7:23:53 PM

Oh Snap said:
If you can fit 5+ 4870's into a case, let me know, because this argument runs thin when you've only realistically got 2 or 3 slots to work with.
Consider upgrading in the future. With a GTX280, as outrageously priced as it may be, you've got the option go to 2 or 3x SLI in the future when prices come down, which would last for a very, very long time. You pop a couple 4870's in there, sure you could crossfire them with a 4870x2, but then you've really got 1 and a half cards. Just seems kinda mickey mouse to me. Just IMO.


I know. I mean, it's like, you can buy 2 4870, for somewhere like $600, then the remaining? Just use it for something else. A dinner for 2 perhaps?
June 26, 2008 7:25:09 PM

sisley_111 said:
Right now, ATI is the way to go.

For what? ATI is the way to go if you want the "best bang for your buck." Want to be able to scale/upgrade and still have top performance 6 months from now? Want to be able to run Crysis very high all at 2560? Top performance is still Nvidia. ATI is the way to go if you want a midrange or budget build computer, and I won't argue with that, but I wouldn't recommend ATI as of right now to someone who wanted to build a high performance machine. I'm hoping that's a different story by the time the 4870x2 comes out.
June 26, 2008 7:27:28 PM

Fingers crossed for the 4870x2.
June 26, 2008 7:32:47 PM

romulus47plus1 said:
Fingers crossed for the 4870x2.

Yeah, I'm really hoping that they got their **** sorted out with the 2 GPUs. Everything I've read so far has pointed to that, so if they can figure out what they're doing with Crossfire as well, 2 of those babies might just hand 3 way GTX280's their ass on a plate. Once ATI starts ruining Nvidia's day at the high end is the day we see the awesome benefits from competition :) 
June 26, 2008 7:32:52 PM

I don't get your complains about the temps, guys. My trivial understanding of the physics involved tells me that the amount of heat is proportional to the power consumption. Let's take 4850 : it does consume roughly the same amount of energy as 9800GTX+. That means, they produce the same amount of thermal energy per time unit. The high core temperatures of 4850 point to the poor performance of the card's cooler. However, the amount of thermal energy spilled into to the room per second is THE SAME for 4850 and 9800GTX+.
June 26, 2008 7:34:45 PM

rachotilko said:
I don't get your complains about the temps, guys. My trivial understanding of the physics involved tells me that the amount of heat is proportional to the power consumption. Let's take 4850 : it does consume roughly the same amount of energy as 9800GTX+. That means, they produce the same amount of thermal energy per time unit. The high core temperatures of 4850 point to the poor performance of the card's cooler. However, the amount of thermal energy spilled into to the room per second is THE SAME for 4850 and 9800GTX+.

Exactly right. Both generate the same amount of heat, the 9800 is just more efficient at exhausting it away from the card.

Hence my :sarcastic:  reply.
June 26, 2008 7:35:57 PM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
And here we see ATIs low end coming within 10% of the G280 http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/14967/7 Of course, then theres TWIMTBP program, which is getting hammered as well http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/252101-33-games-comig... with ATI picking up several studios, and DX10.1 is coming to a games near you soon, which nVidia just cant seem to do right now

Which is funny considering we've seen the low end ATI actually outperform their higher end card. Certainly instills a lot of confidence :) 

Like I said, let's push these cards to the limit. Benches on CF 4870x2 vs. 3 way GTX280 on 4xAA 2560x1600 Very High All please :) 
June 26, 2008 7:36:26 PM

Oh Snap said:
Yeah, I'm really hoping that they got their **** sorted out with the 2 GPUs. Everything I've read so far has pointed to that, so if they can figure out what they're doing with Crossfire as well, 2 of those babies might just hand 3 way GTX280's their ass on a plate. Once ATI starts ruining Nvidia's day at the high end is the day we see the awesome benefits from competition :) 


At least they, ATI are starting to win the mass market, the sub 300 market, with their 4800s. Yup, if they can beat the high end that's when most benefits come in.
a b U Graphics card
June 26, 2008 7:36:59 PM

Its just not releasing it from the core as efficiently. Like was said earlier, a driver update will settle all that
June 26, 2008 7:38:50 PM

SLI of those beating the CF.
For what Price Monsta?
a b U Graphics card
June 26, 2008 7:39:55 PM

Oh Snap said:
Which is funny considering we've seen the low end ATI actually outperform their higher end card. Certainly instills a lot of confidence :) 

Like I said, let's push these cards to the limit. Benches on CF 4870x2 vs. 3 way GTX280 on 4xAA 2560x1600 Very High All please :) 

In single card? And if not, whats that telling you?
June 26, 2008 7:40:20 PM

Thank you for having a REAL post unlike those assholes that lie just to laugh when you click on it.
June 26, 2008 7:40:26 PM

Nice, FLAME FLAME FLAME MAUAJAJAJAJAJA.
Nice review. I'm also getting impressed with the new ati cards, seem veeeeery nice for what they cost. Only if nvidia cards came down in price... something not too common for the high end nvidia :p 
I wouldn't get worried about the crossfire performance as it will increase and even so two 4870 = 280 if not better.
Also there are two 8.7 catalyst drivers the "alpha" and the "beta" with 7.14.10.0598 is the direct3d software version number, which one did they use ? :p 
I wouldn't get worried about the heat issues, lol just reapplying the stock heat sink with AS5 gets the temps down by 20ºC and applying an after market like the S1 gets the temps to 40ºc UNDER LOAD.... so..... bad work ati with the thermal paste... and heat sinks.
Although I'll maybe purchase one for myself replacing my old 1600XT.
Didn't find the review i read of the s1 but with this one shows the same....
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-r...
Also the new ati cards haven't implemented well the clock speed in idle which dosn't go as low as it should, probably with a bios flash or next final driver some of this issues will get solved.
The only real issues I see with ati's new generation are power consumption in idle which will get lower and the heat sink or thermal paste used, not the real heat that the chip produces as it dosnt produce that much, just that it dosn't get well dissipated ( surely ill get flamed for this).
Although nvidia's new generation isn't bad at all, just too overpriced.
June 26, 2008 7:40:29 PM

Quote:
No driver will cool the cards

Drivers run things like the fan and PowerPlay, both of which aren't working properly. So yes, a driver will cool the card.
June 26, 2008 7:40:50 PM

Quote:
No driver will cool the cards


JDJ, lol.....
The driver can make the fan work better, thus lowering the temps of the card.
!