How do you detect a broken power supply

[loafing_smurf]

Hello

I bought a Tagan TG700-U88 BZ 700W in May. Since the beggining of July, my computer started freezing and I get blue screens on a daily basis. Because my system crashes soo much, my system files get ruined and I need to reinstall windows every other week.

I tested the ram and hard drives using diagnostic test and they check out ok. So I figured that it is either the motherbord or the power supply that is broken. I have a feeling that the motherbord or PSU has a broken capacitor.

So I would like to know what is the best way to detect a broken PSU.


P.S

As a side note, this is the third power supply I owned this year. My first PSU was the Antec SP 450, which Antec admits is faulty. They said that it had a faulty 5V line due to a bad cap. The second one was an Ultra 500 which I got discounted for $30. It stated acting up after a month. So I finaly decided to get a good durable PSU, so I figured I'll buy something from Tagan.

 

[loafing_smurf]

It looks like I might have found what I'm looking for. Its a power supply tester.

The Rexus PST-3 Digital Power Supply Tester might be my best bet. Since it can test all my connectors.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Description=power+supply+tester

 

[fleakiller]

That will work for you

 

[bobwya]

Hi

Time to invest in a UPS/ powerline filter??

Not sure that an off load PSU tester will pickup a fault at this stage... But its worth a shot I guess!!

I would substitute a known working PSU to test for system stability. That hopefully pin down a motherboard or PSU issue.

The problem that since you have been using ***** PSUs with the motherboard in the past is that alone can damage components on it.

I would generally run: CPU burn (overnight), 3D Mark 2006, Gold Memory Tester, etc. to test for system stability after overclocking.

You have a good warranty on the powersupply so you should be covered in that respect!!

What motherboard, CPU, GPU and RAM are we taking about??

Bob

 

[loafing_smurf]

Hi

Sorry I didnt respond right way. My computer crashed after writing a response and I think its going to crash again.

I'll try those programs test programs when I get the chance.

Also this is my computer

CPU: Intel E6600
Mobo: Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L
Ram: 2 Gig Corsair 800Mhz 5-5-5-18
Video: Nividia 8800GT
PSU: Tagan TG700-U88 BZ 700W

 

[bobwya]

Sorry I didnt respond right way. My computer crashed after writing a response and I think its going to crash again.

Ah thats all good parts (all solid capacitors on the MB for example).

Hmmm. Interesting problem!!

I presume your temperatures (GPU and CPU) are OK? (Given the problems started in Summer - with a decent PSU)
The classic test for this is side panel off and large house fan blowing in the side...!!

What's the case you are using and is the airflow OK?

Don't bother running those tests... Your system is too unstable!!

Can you substitute any parts?? Like for example do you know anyone with a decent PSU >450W ??

RAM is going to be standard 1.8V if it is Corsair value RAM - right? Have you tried booting with one stick and then swapping over to the other?

Bob

 

[loafing_smurf]

Hello

Sorry for replying so late. And I feel that I owe you an explaniation, since you were trying to help me. I last replied to on the end of July, which is when I had to visit my parents for a month. On the last day I had to leave, windows just wouldnt start because it crashed so many times. So I was unable to tell you I was not able to reply.

As for things now, I am trying to buy a power supply tester, but eveyone is out of stock. If the PSU is ok, I'll try to see if the memory is broken. If that is ok, it has to be the motherbord (which was once heavily used by a bad PSU)

 

[bobwya]

No worries.

I would think the MB and RAM would be OK. I reckon it's cheap gear that is vulnerable to damage from varying voltage levels from an unstable PSU (ripple or spikes/drop-outs).

Like I said before a PSU tester will generally only tell if a PSU in within the ATX specifications - static conditions - but very short variations from this in the form spikes or drop-outs will not be detected. Also excessive ripple or noise on the voltage rails may not be picked up on. The only reliable PSU testers cost a lot of money and are used by PSU reviewers.

It would be easier for you to get a parameter into the system that is almost 100% a known quantity in the form of a Corsair, Seasonic or PC Power & Cooling PSU. I would also invest in a decent UPS to protect it. Otherwise you are potentially building/testing the whole system around an unstable component at the core. Look on it as an investment to save you time, hassle, protect your system data and to protect your other system components from damage.

Like I said in previous emails the flip-side of ensuring power stability is to ensure that the DC-DC power conversion components for generating the CPU voltage from 12V, etc., etc. (mainly Mosfets) are all cooled adequately (not just the CPU temperatures). A good engineering test is literally just to feel heatsinks and chips with your finger. This is because our anatomy is generally sensitive to temperatures over 45C and so are electronic components!!

If you want post up some pic's of your rig to see if there could be any cooling issues visible in these.

Bob

 

[loafing_smurf]

Hello

Are you saying that I should buy a new power supply?

As a some what relevant point. I lived in a shabby apartment last year...which was probably built in the Victorian Period. The electrical outlets were not grounded. I knew this because my Belkin power bar said so. All of my components except for the Tagan 700 were used in this building. At that time I was using the $30 Ultra 500.

But now I live in a newly built apartment and the electrical outlets are grounded.

And do you think a computer shop will properly see if my Tagan 700 is faulty? What questions should I ask the computer shop to see if they properly diagnose a power supply? So I know that they dont just use a typical power supply tester?

Also my digital camera might have kicked the bucket. I had it since 2002 and it now takes pictures of purple vertical lines in a black backround. So I might have a hard time taking a picture of my case.

Thanks

 

[Grimmy]

You say you install windows every other week?

Are you sure your installing the most updated drivers, MS updates, or even patches for games for your system?

When you run software diagnostic tests, that's basically more in a dos environment, rather then within windows, so I think something is overlooked in my opinion.

Might want to look in the event viewer, under systems to see if windows is complaining on drivers for the hardware, especially on a new installation of windows.

 

[bobwya]

Hello

Are you saying that I should buy a new power supply?

Ok so no pictures - heh heh!!

Uhmmm I had a sleep on this problem. Looking at the New Egg reviews of that PSU tester (Rexus PST-3 Digital Power Supply Tester) that would actually be quite a good way to go (especially with the LCD voltage readouts). From the level of the stability problems you are experiencing and the fact that Tagan is a good PSU make it sounds like the problems might be shown by the PSU meter. One way to test for power stability problems is to plug in something with a big load (like a delta fan) and look for drops in the voltage rails.

So I think you are right don't splash out on yet another PSU just yet. BTW is the Tagan under warranty still if you do find a fault with it??

I would still recommend to buy a UPS to try and avoid this kind of problems occurring again in the future!!

Are any components overheating in your rig or anything like that. Whenever I get instability problems I usually start poking around to feel for chips overheating or hot heatsinks!! :lol:

You don't know anyone in the area with a stable system that could borrow your PSU to test it for a few days perhaps?

Bob

 

[loafing_smurf]

Hello Grimmy

It might not be a drivers problem. In July, my system froze when I was instaling windows. Also, my system was runing fine for most of February of this year. Then it started crashing alot in the summer.

Hello BobWya

I think you hit the right problem. The season has been changing into fall and I've been leaving my bedroom window open. So the room temprature has been significantly lower. And I notice that my system started acting properly.

I dont get blue screens anymore or any type of system freezes. And my system now runs at performance. Where it used to take 10 minutes for Windows to load. Or very long wait times to install a video game.

I opened my case and touched some components. Among everything, the northbridge heatsink is really hot. I can touch it for a moment before my finger starts to burn. So is this normal?

I also touched the ram, and it was warm but not as hot as the northbridge heatsink.

I also checked my CPU temperature in the BIOS and it idles at 41 C.

Edit/P.S - It got hot this weekend, mostly on Saturday. It caused and I notice that my system crashed alot. So I had to rebuild my OS.

 

[bobwya]

Yeh

I've got a watercooled rig but all my expansion cards slots are full and keep overheating due to me leaving out enough airflow overthem!! I may have to replace the case with one the newer models (120mm exhaust vs 2x 80mm exhaust at the rear).

What case have you got there? Maybe a case upgrade with a model with better airflow? Stagnenet air around the northbridge allows that heat buildup. You want the heatsink to get hot (good = TIM contact is OK) but then you want airflow through the case to take the heat out.

Something like:
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=162&products_id=24017
is the daddy!!

Its worth throwing money at good airflow it makes life a lot easier day to day... See I am still not taking my own advice and paying for it!!

Bob

 

[loafing_smurf]

At the moment I left the case side panel open for cooling and it hasnt crashed all day.

Although, it crashed yeasterday and I got this code in the blue screen.

STOP 0x000000 F4 (0x00000003,0x8A3C74C8, 0x8A3c763C, 0x805D1142)

Looking it up its seems like a hard drive or RAM problem. I'm actualy thinking that my hard drive could have broke from formating soo many times.

But my computer has been running non stop since last night and it hasent crahed and is running at performance. And this could be because I left the side panel open.


Anyways I'm probably going to buy this Antec 300 case. It looks like I cant go wrong buying it.

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=29812&vpn=THREE%20HUNDRED&manufacture=ANTEC

 

[loafing_smurf]

An idea hit me!

STOP 0x000000 F4 is a RAM or hard drive problem. But cooler temperature seem to solve the problem.

When I touch the ram heat sink it is warm. Perhaps the heat sinks are not doing their job properly.

 

[ohiou_grad_06]

Believe it or not.....I actually had a ram heatsink contribute to ram in my system burning up. Seriously. I started having blue screens when my system was only a couple of months old. Mind you I've got a 250 mm fan in the side of the case too, so not like cooling is an issue. Anyway, started getting blue screens and all, long story short, I'd gotten a lot of gear for Christmas. And dad had bought one stick of ram without heatsinks, one with. He just found a good deal on the other one, so picked it up. Got everything assembled, worked for a while, tested the ram after reformatting and what not when blue screens started. Got errors, the stick with the heatsink actually had the errors. Pulled it, and like yours, warm to the touch, and had a funky smell to it to. Replaced with another stick with no heatsink, and not one issue in that respect since. Oh well, live and learn.

 

[Grimmy]

Or it could be the Manufacturer process of applying the adhesive. I brought Crucial Ballistx memory that had a bunch of bad reviews. I even thought it was attributed to heat as well.

But since I was OC'ing, I pretty much pushed it voltage wise, although I replaced the HS that were currently on them. I spent a good hour cleaning off the adhesive that kept the HS on the Ballistix memory.

Long story short, I used Mushkin memory on my current system. So far the Ballstix I was having problems with, work fine at stock settings, with mild OC on the E4400 system that I use it on. Heh, and on top of that, I'm using the Muskin HS on the Ballistix, since the HS were allot easier to take off and put back on the Ballistix. :lol:

 

[loafing_smurf]

This is the ram I have.

Corsair XMS2 TWIN2X2048-6400 2GB

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=18581&vpn=TWIN2X2048-6400&manufacture=CORSAIR

I'm either thinking about investing in cooling or new ram all together.

RAM cooler

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=21240&vpn=CMXAF1&manufacture=CORSAIR

RAM heatsinks (problem is removing the existing heatsinks)

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=31434&vpn=ARCTICRC&manufacture=Arctic%20Cooling

RAM I am looking at

Mushkin HP PC2-6400 HP2-6400 2GB

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=21095&vpn=996533&manufacture=MUSHKIN

 

[Grimmy]

I use these on my Mushkin, which were on my Ballistix:

Thermaltake CL-R0026 Aluminum Heatsinks only

I used a hand held IR Thermometer to measure external temps on the HS. Normally both ram kits would register 40-50C which would depend on the load on the system. With those replacement HS by thermaltake, the temps dropped to 36-43C.

 

[loafing_smurf]

Thoes looks good but I need to figure out how to replace the heatsinks.

My ram heatsinks are not held on by clips. I think they attached with thermal glue.

Perhaps I can freeze the ram and heatsinks will snap off?

 

[Grimmy]

Heh... I first used those on my Crucial Ballistix, they were glued to the HS. I ended up just pulling them off. Then a spent a good hour or so cleaning all the adhesive off them before putting those thermaltake HS on, mubbling why did they do that?? :lol:

I also wondered if I damaged it while pulling or cleaning them, later on.

I basically used rubbing alcohol to get as much off the memory chips. But I still had blue screens after that, so I ended up with Mushkin. Then I decided to take the Mushkin HS off which was way easier, and put those clip HS on my Ballistix for my E4400 machine which it still works fine. Its just weird that I have Crucial memory with Mushkin HS. :lol:

Edit:

So mainly my problem with the Ballistix was with my OC. The Mushkin didn't to much better since I was on a P6N Plat with a 650i chipset. That is where your thread is not simliar to what happened to me, but is kinda linked to over heating ram.

 

[loafing_smurf]

Thats a bit akward. But whatever solves the problem. And shouldnt the Thermaltake HS be better than the Mushkin HS?

Looking at RAM prices and heatsink prices. I feel tempted to just buy new RAM. New 2 GB of ram can cost $10 more than new heatsinks.

But I just might go for new RAM heatsinks.

 

[Grimmy]

Heh.. the problem was never solved. My MB (P6N Plat) broke so now I'm on a different MB (DFI P35, which OC better), but the thermaltake HS are on the Mushkins.

Since my Ballistix no longer had HS, I used the Mushkin HS on the Ballistix, and used the on a different system, which is paired with my E4400 system. It's basically a long story, hence why I was trying to cut it short.

 

[loafing_smurf]

I see

Well this is the route I'm probably going to go. Upgraded heatsink and memory cooler.

Aluminum DDR Memory Heat Spreader (and perhaps some artic sliver 5 between the RAM and spreader)

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=54_43&products_id=1585

Memory cooler

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=54_43&products_id=20910

EDIT: if this all fails I just might buy new memory.

 

[Grimmy]

I wouldn't recommend using AS5 on the memory. It does contain silver particles, and using it on memory is different then on a CPU IHS or without.

Usually RAM HS have a pad that keeps it in contact for the memory chips to the HS. If want to use a thermal grease, use the ceramique stuff. Problem there is it going to be messy (putting it on each chip) and it prolly won't fill the gap like a thermal pad would, unless the clip actually can get an even pressure to assure that contact for all the chips is flush.