Tom's Hardware > Forum > CPU & Components > CPUs > Core Temps vs. Chip Temp
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Hi all,

I'm trying to understand the difference and limits of core temps vs. the overall chip temp. My core temps on my Q9450 (quad) are all in the high 50c to low 60c yet my overall chip temp in the BIOS is around 38c or lower.

I know Intel has a "high thermal limit" on the chip recommended at 70c, but is that for the chip itself or for each core? If for whole chip, what kind of core temps should be alarming vs. regular.

Also, how can the cores be running so hot yet the overall chip stays cool (other than probe placement). Are hot cores and a cool chip a sign of good a good heat sink? Or is it a bad heat sink because it's not cooling the cores themselves.

Any help with this is much appreciated.

-Mark

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Those temps look pretty average for a quad-core CPU. One thing I'd like to clarify - where are you getting the core temps from?

I've heard that Core Temp gives the most 'correct' readings of temperature. Also, when have you read the BIOS temperature reading? On inital startup? After restarting after running your system for a while?

Reply to Kraynor

I'm not sure where your reading temperatures but I'm going to guess that in BIOS your reading a temp of 38c but your using coretemp for some program within windows?
So you may be comparing idle and load as well as two different programs.
Double variables.
In addition if you update your BIOS it may be able to read off your temperature more acceurately.

I would worry too much because worst case scenario it'll throttle itself.

Another reason for temperature differance may be that the chip temp is arbitrary place on the chip(not the processor cores so less is taking place there) and it is an inaccurate/meaningful measurement which would essentially do little more than perhaps indicate case heat near the processor and the core heats are more indicitive of how the CPU is doing in terms of keeping within it's thermal envelope.

Reply to will14

Those temps are odd to me, speedfan almost always shows my E6750's 1st core as 1 degree under the CPU temp and the 2nd 1 degree over the CPU temp with little variation. A 20c difference does not seem right at all, and my CPU temps under speedfan are always identical to BIOS readings.

Reply to The_Blood_Raven

Those temps are after gaming for an hour or so, or running Prime 95 just to put a load on the system. Also, using HW Monitor and Core Temp for readings. Someone told me that those programs are calibrated for the 65nm chips and they are giving 10c higher readings than they should be with the 45nm chip. Anyone else heard anything like that? (also my BIOS is updated if anyone is wondering).

Reply to Srotten

Check the temp guide, it explains it well.

 

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/ [...] ture-guide


Message edited by nukemaster on 07-30-2008 at 12:42:33 AM
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Reply to nukemaster

Kraynor wrote :

I've heard that Core Temp gives the most 'correct' readings of temperature.

Real Temp is more likely to have an accurate Tjmax.

Reply to Zorg

If you want accurate temperature readings a Core 2 Duo/Quad take a look at Real Temp:

http://www.techpowerup.com/realtemp/

Core temperature = TJMAX - DTS Value

TJMAX is the maximum temperature a core can run at before it initiates thermal throttling. Intel does not publish this value for its Core Line of desktop processors.

DTS (Digital Thermal Sensor) is the digital thermal probe inside each processor core. The probes do not measure the core's temperature, rather the distance the core is away from TJMAX. In other words, the DTS value is used to measure how close the core is coming to the temperature at which it will begin throttling. So, if the DTS value is 40, then your core can heat up 40 degrees before throttling. It the DTS value is 2, then your processor is about to start throttling (once DTS value = 0). DTS was never meant to be a measure of core temperature, but a way to signal the processor to prevent it from overheating.

By this formula it is possible to calculate the core temp, but you need to know TJMAX (a fixed value) and the current DTS value. Luckily the DTS can be read from the processor and this is what programs like Real Temp, Core Temp, and Speedfan use. TJMAX is the big question. Intel has never released this information for the desktop Core products. They did actually release it for their mobile 45nm Core products: 105 degrees C. This is what Core Temp and Speed Fan use for their TJMAX. However, it has been found that this value is too high for the desktop Core chips.

The author of Real Temp actually used a Infrared Thermometer to measure a variety of Core 2 Duo's and Quads (also, Pentium Dual Core, since they're based on the same architecture) and discovered that most chips have a TJMAX of 95 degrees C. A few models are 85 degrees C. This is why Core Temp and Speedfan read the temperature 10 degrees higher than Real Temp. They guess at the value of TJMAX wheras the Real Temp author actually measured and calculated it.

In his testing, he replaced Core Temperature with the value he was measuring from his IR Thermometer (accuracy is +- 1 degree C of actual core temp)

Measured Temp = TJMAX - DTS

so

TJMAX = Measured Temp + DTS

He can then calculate TJMAX because he has the measured temp from his thermometer and he knows the DTS value reported by the chip.

You can read a lot more about Real Temp, the testing methods, and more here:

http://www.techpowerup.com/realtemp/docs.php

and here:

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=64185

and here:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forum [...] ost2809778

Reply to qwertycopter
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Amd phenom 9100e safe temps?
By o1die, 4 hours ago:

No. 65c under load should be your maximum temp.

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