New System New Advice

[Shibumi]

Hello, I know this says its my first post, but I posted a bit a long time ago and I think my account went poof at some point.

Anyways, I'm about to finally build a brand new rig to take with me to MML7 in Louisville, KY and I wanted some advice on a couple things before I finalized my design plans and bought all my stuff. I'm a budget for power kind of guy and most of everything I get I try to get the best of the best at the best cost, ie. the most bang for my buck, yet allowing me to stay on top of the game for along time and allow for upgrading.

Right now this is what I have picked out:

Case: NZXT Tempest
CPU: Q6600 (This is a problem spot)
GPU: 2x 8800 GT 512 MB (Another advice spot)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix DDR2 800 4gb
Motherboard: Can't pick yet - Will need advice
Hard Drive: WD Raptor X WD1500AHFD 150GB
PSU: I usually go with some kind of PC Power and Cooling

Alrighty, so on to my questions. For a while now I decided that the Q6600 was the way to go. I wanted to get a quad core, have really good OC ability, and not be too expensive. I figured the 6600 was the champ here at a $230 retail price, and great reviews on OCing. Then a friend of mine went on and on about a Q9450 and about 45nm vs. 65nm and now I'm confused. So I went online did some review research of the Q6600 vs. the Q9450 and all I've come up with is more questions because I've read a few different things about the same thing saying go with a E8400 instead. So now I'm really getting mixed up on what CPU to buy considering I hear really good things about the E8400 OC ability, its cheaper than the 6600, and apparantly will get just as much use at the 6600 considering the lack of Quad Core Support for things. So... uh help me please.

As far as the GPU is concerned, I'm pretty set on what I want here. I'm gonna go with 2x 8800 GTs, the only reason I want a second opinion here is, the new vid cards are releasing in like a week, and obviously price drops are going to happen. I'm willing to spend $300ish on my video cards, so after the price drops should I just go with the cheaper 8800 GTs? Or is there another single or pair of cards I should be looking at because it'll fit the price range with better performance?

If you can, I'd like some assistance on what mobo to go with after I figure out what proc to go with. I obviously need socket 775, SLI support, and I'm a full feature kind of guy. So I like good amount of expansion slots and all that jazz. I really haven't done any research on this hardware for my system yet, figured I'd wait till I got a CPU set.

What I plan to do with the system - I play a lot of games, right now Age of Conan is kicking the **** out of my system, I'd like to play it will everything maxed, 16x AA and max resolution with at least 30-40 FPS. I do some video\audio encoding occasionally but, by no means do I need that to be blazing fast as I don't do it all the time. I multitask a little bit, ie. run some stuff in the background while I game, but I'm not a multi monitor, video encode while I photoshop, and play Age of Conan at the same time kind of guy.

Thanks for your help ahead of time.

 

[shadowduck]

Gaming only system: E8400
System with CPU intensive applications that take advantage of multicore systems: Q6600
If you want to spend $300+ on a CPU and it does not break the budget: Q9450

GPU: Do NOT for ANY reason buy 2 8800GT cards right now. SLI is a bad way to go to start with, but its terrible right now with the 2xx series card coming so soon. ONE 8800GT for under $200 then trade it up to a 2xx series card in 90 days. Make sure you buy an eVGA card so you can take advantage of this program. If you do not game at resolutions higher than 1920x1200 SLI makes almost NO DIFFERENCE! It is just a waste of power and higher temps.

Motherboard: nVidia's SLI motherboards for Intel frankly suck, another reason to get rid of your SLI dreams. Look at Asus or Gigabyte P45 of X38 boards. P45 is a good choice- like the P5Q Pro from Asus.

Hard Drive: No, skip it. Normal 7200RPM hard drives are just as fast as the Raptors now. Velicoraptors are still faster, if you want to sink $300 into a hard drive. Otherwise 500GB 7200.11 Seagate Drive 32MB cache.

Memory: skip what you picked, not what it used to be! Has problems with boards now. Pick up 4GB (8GB would not hurt with PS work) of G.Skill 4GB 4-4-4-12 RAM. It is $94 at Newegg. DDR2-800 is just fine.

PSU: Good choice!

 

[ibuypower]

Shadowduck, dude I don't know where you come from. It must not be this planet because nVidia's boards are the best on the market.

Shibumi, I would tell you to go for the Q6600 because it's good for just about everything.

For the hard drive, yea go for the Seagate Barracuda 500GB. For the graphics cards, if you want to wait for new cards from nVidia then wait for them. But if not go with something from Evga for the exchange deal.

For the mobo, I would suggest getting the Evga 780i. Very future proof and also very full featured.

 

[ilovebarny]

you should buy a quad core. its not going to perform quite as well as the E8400 but will last a lot longer and they are good at overclocking.the q6600 is just fine. if your worried about the 45nm thing yes they are better with power consumtion and i think they are better overclocking but they can be a hassle to get them to work on your mobo. for a gpu. well there is nothing wrong with sli. at the vary lest its not going to hurt perfomance. but i would suggest you get the 8800gts 512mb. its the same as the 9800gtx just a little slower and a lot cheaper. and you can do what shadow duck says get an evga one and in a few months upgrade to the new cards coming out. for the hard drive if you can afford the raptor go for it but its probably better to just get a 7200 rpm. seagate's are good harddrives. for memory get like 4gbs of OCZ. last i checked it was 98 bucks from newegg. for a mobo get a evga 780I. seriously. i have only seen one post on toms hardware forums saying any one had a problem with it. its a good board. for a psu mmmm well pc power and cooling is not bad i hear they run on the expencive side. just make sure to get one that has 80+ efficiency.

 

[Silverion77]

Shadowduck, dude I don't know where you come from. It must not be this planet because nVidia's boards are the best on the market.

HAHAHAH thats rly funny...
Is this another thunderman???

Nvidia boards suck cause 1) unstable 2)unreliable and 3) they are picky and **** for overclocking

OP: Drop SLI and get a nice P45 board....like Shadow said

 

[Why_Me]

HAHAHAH thats rly funny...
Is this another thunderman???

Nvidia boards suck cause 1) unstable 2)unreliable and 3) they are picky and **** for overclocking

OP: Drop SLI and get a nice P45 board....like Shadow said

Would you expect anything differen't from somene who uses a forums moniker of "Ibuypower".

 

[ilovebarny]

^ i actually came up with that name thank you very much.

now thats were your wrong( in my experince ) i have the bfg 680I and it works like a charm. it overclocks wonderfully and is perfectly stable . if i were you i would look at your signiture. 99% of all computer problems are user related. im not saying the P45 is a bad board but there is nothing wrong with nvidia boards.

 

[Silverion77]

The Nvidia chipsets (like the 750s Video corruption) have problems.....some are good like urs. 680i was plagued with memory problems BSODs the works. But compared to the P45 which is running 500 stable with a quad on an immature BIOS....how can u compare?

@Why_Me: R O F L

 

[ibuypower]

Would you expect anything differen't from somene who uses a forums moniker of "Ibuypower". That right there says the guy doesn't have a clue.

Thank you deputy. And my word on that, I have never, nor will I ever buy anything from ibuypower. I liked the name that's all.

 

[ilovebarny]

^ ????? well as i said in my experiance with my mobo i have never had a bsod the bios updated with out a hitch and my memory has never failed me. i have heard that all of the 50 series had problems( ie 650i, 750i). but the 80 series were much better( ie 680i, 780i) so dont talk about the 750 wen i aint.

 

[Silverion77]

who says i was talking about the 50's?!?! The 680is were RAM killers....maybe u got lucky but its known they had such issues...google it

 

[Shibumi]

Ahem, well flames aside about boards and such, I'll have to look into some research about the 780i and the P45, thank you for that.

As for the video cards, I guess I worded myself incorrectly, I'm definately going to wait for the card release because it'll drop the prices. What I'm asking is, should I stick with a then cheapened 8800 GT or look at something else that will then be around the price range of what 8800 GTs are at now? (Oh and ATI cards are not an option, I used to be hardcore nvidia cards, then I had 2 ATI cards and I just can't stand a lot of things about it all)

I'll stick with PCP&C, I know they're expensive but they're rock solid.

I guess I'll change my perspective on ram, and as far as the hard drives are concerned, 10,000 RPM drive is only for OS and games, I have a 500GB drive for all my data like movies, music, files, and all that junk. Thanks for the suggestion but I'll stick with the 10k

So I'm still undecided about the Q6600, I guess I've ruled out the 9450, but why exactly should I got 6600 over 8400 if the 8400 will outperform it for less money? Just because its quad core and be a bit more future proof?

Oh and thanks for letting me know about eVGA's upgrade program I'll have to look into that for sure, I never knew about that. Thank you.

 

[Shibumi]

What about this for ram? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227199


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227269
And what makes this ram better? I know it says sli ready or w/e but I'm not entirely sure why I should pick one over the other exactly. Its been a long time since I bought ram, and back in those days you bought whatever ram fit your board, and your only option was dual channel and company.

 

[Dopekitten]

No, that ram has bad timings. Get this instead, its barely any more money after rebate:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145194

Edit: That ram is actually better because it's timings are lower. SLI ready means NOTHING, i repeat NOTHING. It is simply marketing ****. The RAM i linked is better than that still, and is fine if you plan to do SLI.

 

[mihirkula]

LMFAO @ ibuypower .... and the deputy should be named ilovebarmy for doling up that moniker

At OP... the new Radeons ain't half briiliant ... theres a huge chance the crown is gonna go back to ATI ... Radeon 4850 might easily beat 8800GT ... wait for the official benchies, just a few days away.

Regarding CPU...the quad vs dual core is a war as old as the mahabharata .... the fact is E8400 does outperform in most games and apps. ... the idea of futureproofing goes out the windows since 2 years later there would be Nehalem which would make the present architecture look very obsolete. Theres a good chance you'd change your rig to Nehalem 2.5 yrs later. So stick with whatever offers a faster performance NOW. These benchies would give you a better idea.


http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core2quad-q9300_9.html#sect0

 

[Why_Me]

Regarding CPU...the quad vs dual core is a war as old as the mahabharata .... the fact is E8400 does outperform in most games and apps. ... the idea of futureproofing goes out the windows since 2 years later there would be Nehalem which would make the present architecture look very obsolete. Theres a good chance you'd change your rig to Nehalem 2.5 yrs later. So stick with whatever offers a faster performance NOW. These benchies would give you a better idea.


http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core2quad-q9300_9.html#sect0

Agreed! I always hear about "future proofing" in regards to the quads. There is no such thing as future proofing in the PC world. The Wolfdales are cheap (E7200 bargain of the year), they use less juice, produce less heat, and they can't be beat for overclocking and getting the most bang for your buck. Unless a guy uses adobe photoshop and 3dmax studios for a living then I would say spend the extra money on a quad , but when it comes to gaming Wolfdales all the way.

 

[Shibumi]

Wow that ram is a really good deal actually, the timings rock. I just wish the rebate on it didn't end on the 16th, that blows.

Ok, so I did some ram research, and now I've figured out how to tell the difference between ram of the same class. What I dont' know about now is... Say for instance I go with the 780i motherboard, what class of ram do I want to get? DDR2 800 (PC6400)? or Do I want that 1000 or 1066 stuff?

And what's the hooplah about DDR3?

 

[Why_Me]

Wow that ram is a really good deal actually, the timings rock. I just wish the rebate on it didn't end on the 16th, that blows.

Ok, so I did some ram research, and now I've figured out how to tell the difference between ram of the same class. What I dont' know about now is... Say for instance I go with the 780i motherboard, what class of ram do I want to get? DDR2 800 (PC6400)? or Do I want that 1000 or 1066 stuff?

And what's the hooplah about DDR3?

That Corsair DDr2 800 RAM that "dopekitten" linked you to is good ram and will do fine on any mobo that supports DDR2. It has low latency, good timings, decent heat spreaders, and a good potential for overclocking.

DDR3 is a total waste of money atm, so don't even consider it.

 

[Dopekitten]

You want DDR2 800 (PC6400) at low timings. Ram speed doesn't matter very much, very little difference, but the timings do. If you need to (because of overclocking the FSB) you can always overclock the ram a bit. (The RAM i linked probably will go to 900mhz easily) Then if you need more, you can increase the voltage and lower the timings (That's why it's good to have good timings in the beginning).

 

[Shibumi]

I didn't know you could OC ram. I've only ever done CPU and GPU OCing, I'll have to come back here for advice after I put the machine together.


Alrighty, so here's the update:

Case: NZXT Tempest
CPU: Q6600 (Finalized Now)
GPU: 2x 8800 GT 512 MB (Still haven't got a solid answer here, I'm pretty sure I still want SLI)
Memory: Crucial 4GB (2x 2gb) DDR2 800 on the range of 4-4-4-12 timings.
Motherboard: If I go SLI that means no P45, what are other options for SLI other than the 780i?
Hard Drive: WD Raptor X WD1500AHFD 150GB (I'm settled on this)
PSU: PC Power and Cooling something - Think one of the 750W with single 12v rail will do?

So, any more advice on a GFX card? I'm going to wait for price drops for sure, but what should I be looking at after price drops? Right now I'm looking at 8800 GTs for $150-$200 a piece, so I'm willing to spend 300-400 on Cards. Even if I buy a single now, I'd like to have the ability to make that single go SLI or something. Oh and I looked at eVGA's little upgrade program, and its not enough to sway me to buy one of their cards. If I get an eVGA cuz its a deal, then I get one, but i'm not basing my purchase off that program, it doesn't really save me any money.

I finalized the q6600 because of future proofing reasons, and I'm not entirely concerned about power consumption. So, that leaves me with a motherboard question. I looked at the 780i and man is it expensive. I ruled out the P45 because I want SLI ability, do I have any other options for mobos that will let me have some expansion room, q6600, up to 8gb of ram, and SLI for cheaper? Or is the 780i my best bet?

Thanks a million for all the help you've given me so far.

 

[Dopekitten]

780i is your best bet, if you want SLI.

Only others that can do that are the 680i (don't get it, has many problems)
or the 790i which is riducously priced and needs DDR3.

Otherwise, assuming you're finalized, you look good to go.

PSU is fine.

 

[Why_Me]

I didn't know you could OC ram. I've only ever done CPU and GPU OCing, I'll have to come back here for advice after I put the machine together.


Alrighty, so here's the update:

Case: NZXT Tempest
CPU: Q6600 (Finalized Now)
GPU: 2x 8800 GT 512 MB (Still haven't got a solid answer here, I'm pretty sure I still want SLI)
Memory: Crucial 4GB (2x 2gb) DDR2 800 on the range of 4-4-4-12 timings.
Motherboard: If I go SLI that means no P45, what are other options for SLI other than the 780i?
Hard Drive: WD Raptor X WD1500AHFD 150GB (I'm settled on this)
PSU: PC Power and Cooling something - Think one of the 750W with single 12v rail will do?

So, any more advice on a GFX card? I'm going to wait for price drops for sure, but what should I be looking at after price drops? Right now I'm looking at 8800 GTs for $150-$200 a piece, so I'm willing to spend 300-400 on Cards. Even if I buy a single now, I'd like to have the ability to make that single go SLI or something. Oh and I looked at eVGA's little upgrade program, and its not enough to sway me to buy one of their cards. If I get an eVGA cuz its a deal, then I get one, but i'm not basing my purchase off that program, it doesn't really save me any money.

I finalized the q6600 because of future proofing reasons, and I'm not entirely concerned about power consumption. So, that leaves me with a motherboard question. I looked at the 780i and man is it expensive. I ruled out the P45 because I want SLI ability, do I have any other options for mobos that will let me have some expansion room, q6600, up to 8gb of ram, and SLI for cheaper? Or is the 780i my best bet?

Thanks a million for all the help you've given me so far.

This was a SLI build I did posted another thread yesterday. Replace the hardware like the case, cpu and HD with what you want...etc...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119137 $84.99
COOLER MASTER RC-690-KKN1-GP Black SECC/ ABS ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139006 $129.99 ($119.99 after $10.00 Mail-In Rebate)
CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply 100 - 240 V UL, CE, CB, TUV, FCC, CCC - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813141005 $259.99 ($239.99 after $20.00 Mail-In Rebate)
XFX MB-N780-ISH9 LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 780i SLI Intel Motherboard - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115037 $189.99
Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz 6MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233001 $24.99 ($14.99 after $10.00 Mail-In Rebate)
XIGMATEK HDT-S963 92mm Rifle CPU Cooler - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233019 $6.99
XIGMATEK ACK-I7751 Retention Bracket - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127325 $209.99
MSI NX8800GTS 512M OC GeForce 8800GTS (G92) 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227269 $98.99 ($68.99 after $30.00 Mail-In Rebate)
OCZ SLI-Ready Edition 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148262 $59.99
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3250410AS 250GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106263 $23.99
LITE-ON Black 20X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 20X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA 20X DVD±R DVD Burner - OEM

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186020&Tpk=mx-2 $6.99
ARCTIC COOLING MX-2 Thermal Compound - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116204 $94.99
Microsoft Windows Vista 64-Bit Home Premium for System Builders Single Pack DVD - OEM

TOTAL
$1,191.88
$1,121.88 w/mail in rebates

 

[shadowduck]

@Shibumi

Please read this carefully before buying your system. You are making a mistake on some of your parts!

Your Parts List:
CPU: Q6600 (Finalized Now)
GPU: 2x 8800 GT 512 MB (Still haven't got a solid answer here, I'm pretty sure I still want SLI)
Memory: Crucial 4GB (2x 2gb) DDR2 800 on the range of 4-4-4-12 timings.
Motherboard: If I go SLI that means no P45, what are other options for SLI other than the 780i?
Hard Drive: WD Raptor X WD1500AHFD 150GB (I'm settled on this)
PSU: PC Power and Cooling something - Think one of the 750W with single 12v rail will do?

Ok my answers:

LISTEN DO NOT GO SLI! It is a waste of your money right now. If you are going to game at resolutions over 1920x1200 fine, but wait for 2xx series card. If you are not, SLI provides NO (ZERO) benefit in 99% of games, the only thing it does is use more power and generate more heat. This is not even getting into the bug ridden nVidia chipsets (just search this forum for the long list of issues). Go P45 and be happy, your gaming experience will be no different. You said you want to play Age of Conan maxed out. One 8800GT can handle it at 1920x1200 with EVERYTHING turned on including 16x AF. Obviously frame rates will be higher at lower resolutions.

Hard Drive: You are wasting your money. The Raptor X is no faster anymore than the 7200.11 Seagate drives. If you want a faster drive go with the VelociRaptor.

If you go with the build you have, that's fine, but you are spending money you don't need to.

Source for AoC Stats: http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTUxNiwzLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==

 

[Dopekitten]

Agree COMPLETELY with the above poster...what he says its 100% correct.

 

[Shibumi]

So what if I just buy the 780i buy one video card and then do SLI later? And I kind of want to play on my LCD 37" HDTV, so wouldn't it be a good idea for sli cuz of that resolution?

I'll look into the velociraptor.