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Smoke problems on Nvidia hardware

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I recently got GRID and it performs well except for the fact that when tires smoke all over the screen my frame rates drop to 10-15fps while the actually game play averages over 40fps. This isn't the only game that chokes with smoke either. In bf2 when artillery is blasting on my screen with smoke it drops to 30fps or so in some intense situations. I also noticed this on my 8600gts and now 8800gs.

 

I've had a 1950pro and it didn't drop the frame rates like this not to a point it becomes a slide show.

 

If you have a modern ATI card would you mind giving some feedback?


Message edited by marvelous211 on 07-03-2008 at 07:30:14 AM
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I never had this problem when I was running single 8800 GT

I however have had this problem in the past on other systems in Call of Duty 2 - but only when smoke grenades were involved

Reply to ovaltineplease

yea my 8800 GT starts puffing smoke when i play grid it tends to make my components heat up, but it dosnt seem to slow down when smoke appears in-game.

Reply to papasmurf211

papasmurf211 wrote :

yea my 8800 GT starts puffing smoke when i play grid it tends to make my components heat up, but it dosnt seem to slow down when smoke appears in-game.

 

I'm talking about when you start burning your tires and the car goes in circles trying to get traction. Little bit of smoke particles doesn't make it choke to 10-20fps. It's just for a split second does it drop like that in those rare instances.

 

Someone told me in another web that his 8800gtx does the same thing. So it's definitely Nvidia.

 

Now I just want to hear from ATI users who tried GRID>


Message edited by marvelous211 on 07-03-2008 at 05:42:24 AM
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Reply to marvelous211

Okay, so if its "definitely nvidia" why don't I have this issue?? I don't understand that rationale and i've played a crapload of GRID without this kind of issue

Reply to ovaltineplease

ovaltineplease wrote :

Okay, so if its "definitely nvidia" why don't I have this issue?? I don't understand that rationale and i've played a crapload of GRID without this kind of issue



Perhaps you didn't crash and burn. Better driver? :na:

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Reply to marvelous211


I've played GRID to the end and haven't had this specific issue. Vista 64 with sig.

------------------------------ MCITP, MCTS, MCP
Reply to carver_g

Did you try looking at what FPS you are running? Because in another forum a guy with a 8800gt says it chokes with GRID smoke particles.

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Reply to marvelous211



marvelous211 wrote :

Did you try looking at what FPS you are running?



I haven't, but I can safely say it wasn't a 'slide show' like you described.

marvelous211 wrote :

Because in another forum a guy with a 8800gt says it chokes with GRID smoke particles.



One guy in one forum makes it a universal 8800GT problem?

------------------------------ MCITP, MCTS, MCP
Reply to carver_g

carver_g wrote :

I haven't, but I can safely say it wasn't a 'slide show' like you described.



One guy in one forum makes it a universal 8800GT problem?



It's just for a split second only when burning rubber. Perhaps you miss it.

Not one guy. A moderator in another forum says his 8800gtx does it. Another guy says his 8800gt does it. My 8800gs does it. :pt1cable:

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Reply to marvelous211

awhile back while playing NFS III on a Dell XPS running a 700 MHz Pentium III, whenever there was smoke the framerates would drop considerably, but once the smoke cleared, play was fine.
The videocard was an NVidia, 32MB.
Hmmmm.

Reply to the last resort

marvelous211 wrote :

It's just for a split second only when burning rubber. Perhaps you miss it.



That's possible; I may not see it as much because I have the view set to inside the car. In the Le Mans races, there is a fair amount of smoke from the other cars but I haven't seen a large drop in the framerate. All settings high, BTW.

marvelous211 wrote :

Not one guy. A moderator in another forum says his 8800gtx does it. Another guy says his 8800gt does it. My 8800gs does it.



Right, three guys. How many cards has Nvidia sold? :pt1cable:

------------------------------ MCITP, MCTS, MCP
Reply to carver_g

NFS is another that had a lot of smoke which I had a problem with my 8600gts but not on my 1950pro.

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Reply to marvelous211
- 0 +

i did not know dell made the xps back in the p3 dayz

Reply to rangers

carver_g wrote :

That's possible; I may not see it as much because I have the view set to inside the car. In the Le Mans races, there is a fair amount of smoke from the other cars but I haven't seen a large drop in the framerate. All settings high, BTW.

 

That must be it you are viewing inside your vehicle where you can't even see rear tires burning rubber. :pt1cable:

 

I'm running ultra settings with 4xAA @ 1440x900 resolution. Don't care for high settings.

 


Quote :


Right, three guys. How many cards has Nvidia sold? :pt1cable:

 

Did anyone ask every Nvidia users if they had smoke problems? I would rather trust my own judgment than yours honestly. :sarcastic:

 

This is the reason why I'm asking ATI users to give feedback.

 

I remember playing 1950pro and I never had issues with smoke. I've owned 8600gts and 8800gs recently and both had problems with smoke.

Message quoted 1 times
Message edited by marvelous211 on 07-03-2008 at 06:41:34 AM
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Reply to marvelous211



Nice review of your 8800GS, btw. Just read it.

------------------------------ MCITP, MCTS, MCP
Reply to carver_g

marvelous211 wrote :

That must be it you are viewing inside your vehicle where you can't even see rear tires burning rubber.



There are cars right in front of me burning rubber. Lots of it. Besides, the from the rear of the car is the wuss way to race.

marvelous211 wrote :

I'm running ultra settings with 4xAA @ 1440x900 resolution. Don't care for high settings.



Sorry, I should have said the highest (ultra) settings @1680x1050. Also 4xAA.

marvelous211 wrote :

Did anyone ask every Nvidia users if they had smoke problems? I would rather trust my own judgment than yours honestly.



Down boy! I'm just saying that three users does not a hard fact make.

marvelous211 wrote :

This is the reason why I'm asking ATI users to give feedback.



If you really want to know if Nvidia cards have this smoke problem and ATI users do not, you would ask for input from both sides for a balanced response.


------------------------------ MCITP, MCTS, MCP
Reply to carver_g

I imagine you have enough sense to update drivers and what have you, but did you check your nvidia panel settings for grid to see if anything was uh defaulted to a setting maybe it shouldnt be (ie: T.R.A.A) that could have a detriment to that?

Oh, one weird bug I will note that I had with Grid. When quitting from the game, sometimes the program stays resident in memory, 850 mb worth - so I just end process and its a done deal; but thats the only issue i've had. Vista64

I do know that when I did have Grid still "running" after I exited the game, it had a serious impact on my performance in other games. I don't know if this sort of thing is related or not but I just thought i'd throw it out there.

Reply to ovaltineplease

carver_g wrote :

There are cars right in front of me burning rubber. Lots of it. Besides, the from the rear of the car is the wuss way to race.




haha i like the wuss way

I will say this: why is every single driver in Grid 4 foot 2 inches? Its like the cars have bucket seats in them that touch the ground cause I swear you can barely see over the bloody dashboard in 1st person mode. I can't say I ever drove a car IRL where I felt like I had to lean forward and peer over the dash just to see the road..

Reply to ovaltineplease

carver_g wrote :

There are cars right in front of me burning rubber. Lots of it. Besides, the from the rear of the car is the wuss way to race.



Not like how your own cars burn rubber than a computer. Also viewing insider your car raises fps with GRID. I bet you didn't even notice that either. :pt1cable: So much for your judgment. :sarcastic:



Quote :


Down boy! I'm just saying that three users does not a hard fact make.



Shall we have a poll boy? Shall i make it a fact for you? :lol:

Quote :


If you really want to know if Nvidia cards have this smoke problem and ATI users do not, you would ask for input from both sides for a balanced response.



That's why I'm asking ATI users to give some feedback but what we have is this lame 8800gt lover. :pfff:

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Reply to marvelous211

ovaltineplease wrote :

Oh, one weird bug I will note that I had with Grid. When quitting from the game, sometimes the program stays resident in memory, 850 mb worth - so I just end process and its a done deal; but thats the only issue i've had. Vista64



Yeah, I have the same problem with my Vista 64 system. There is a workaround I found on the GRID forums but it didn't work for me. Also had the logitech steering wheel bug but that was fixed in a patch.

------------------------------ MCITP, MCTS, MCP
Reply to carver_g

ovaltineplease wrote :

I imagine you have enough sense to update drivers and what have you, but did you check your nvidia panel settings for grid to see if anything was uh defaulted to a setting maybe it shouldnt be (ie: T.R.A.A) that could have a detriment to that?

 

Oh, one weird bug I will note that I had with Grid. When quitting from the game, sometimes the program stays resident in memory, 850 mb worth - so I just end process and its a done deal; but thats the only issue i've had. Vista64

 

I do know that when I did have Grid still "running" after I exited the game, it had a serious impact on my performance in other games. I don't know if this sort of thing is related or not but I just thought i'd throw it out there.

 

I had this same issue with 8600gts with NFS and BF2 where it would choke with screen full of smoke. Drivers doesn't magically clear up smoke problems.

 
Quote :

Originally posted by: n7
Yeah smoke kills my fps on my 8800 GTX.

 

Fps death by particles!

 

Anyone with an AMD card care to chime in on the smoke issue in GRID?

  
Quote :

[i]Originally posted by: error8
It's normal. You have so many particles that the card has to render at the same time, so it's going to choke. This was also found in NFS games, so I never look at it like being a bad thing. Maybe the physix stuff will solve it. :laugh;

Message quoted 2 times
Message edited by marvelous211 on 07-03-2008 at 07:01:09 AM
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Reply to marvelous211

marvelous211 wrote :

Also viewing insider your car raises fps with GRID. I bet you didn't even notice that either. So much for your judgment.



Did you notice I'm also running at a higher rez than you? That would equal out the FPS somewhat.

marvelous211 wrote :

Shall we have a poll boy? Shall i make it a fact for you?



That would be why you started the thread, obviously.

marvelous211 wrote :

That's why I'm asking ATI users to give some feedback but what we have is this lame 8800gt lover.



Oh man, you are amusing, I'll give you that. I've had a 9800pro and an x850xt. Great cards.

------------------------------ MCITP, MCTS, MCP
Reply to carver_g

marvelous211 wrote :

Drivers doesn't magically clear up smoke problems.



Those kinds of problems are exactly what some driver updates fix.

------------------------------ MCITP, MCTS, MCP
Reply to carver_g

marvelous211 wrote :

I had this same issue with 8600gts with NFS and BF2 where it would choke with screen full of smoke. Drivers doesn't magically clear up smoke problems.




I went from my manufacturer's video driver to nvidia's driver once upon a time, and it halved my fps in gears of war - hell I never changed a setting, just the driver!

If you are THAT well acquainted with the nuances of your issue than I think you should be talking to Grid technical support, not we lowly peons ! lol

Reply to ovaltineplease

carver_g wrote :

Did you notice I'm also running at a higher rez than you? That would equal out the FPS somewhat.

 

Such logic. Bravo... You are also forgetting the fact that your 8800gt is faster than my 8800gs. :sarcastic:

 
Quote :


That would be why you started the thread, obviously.

 

This thread wasn't a poll but if you want I can make into one to please you. :sarcastic:

 


Quote :


Oh man, you are amusing, I'll give you that. I've had a 9800pro and an x850xt. Great cards.

 

It doesn't mean you don't sleep with your 8800gt now. :lol:

Message quoted 1 times
Message edited by marvelous211 on 07-03-2008 at 07:17:52 AM
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Reply to marvelous211

I don't. My experience is a slight slowdown but for only a split second.

Athlon64 X2 @ 3015Mhz with Radeon 3850 256MB user here.

Reply to stridervm

ovaltineplease wrote :

I went from my manufacturer's video driver to nvidia's driver once upon a time, and it halved my fps in gears of war - hell I never changed a setting, just the driver!

 

If you are THAT well acquainted with the nuances of your issue than I think you should be talking to Grid technical support, not we lowly peons ! lol

 

I'm using Nvidia drivers dude. :non:

 

It's a fact there are lot of noobs in Tom's forum but I think it's mostly teenagers in here or they really never tried studying up on hardware and try proving theories or actually read an article besides benchmarks.


Message edited by marvelous211 on 07-03-2008 at 07:16:39 AM
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Reply to marvelous211

carver_g wrote :

Those kinds of problems are exactly what some driver updates fix.



Where's the drivers fixing this issue?

Nvidia has problems with lot of smoke particles. How can you fix it with drivers when it's limited to their hardware? :sarcastic:

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Reply to marvelous211


Good God, how much longer is this going to go on?

marvelous211 wrote :

Please do not spew your noob info anymore. You are also forgetting the fact that your 8800gt is faster than my 8800gs.



True. You have a killer o/c though.

marvelous211 wrote :

This thread wasn't a poll but if you want I can make into one to please you.



You're asking people for opinions. That would be a poll, regardless if it is labeled as such.

marvelous211 wrote :

It doesn't mean you don't sleep with your 8800gt now.



Now you're just being childish.

------------------------------ MCITP, MCTS, MCP
Reply to carver_g

stridervm wrote :

I don't. My experience is a slight slowdown but for only a split second.

Athlon64 X2 @ 3015Mhz with Radeon 3850 256MB user here.



Did you trying using fraps to measure performance? What resolution and settings?

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Reply to marvelous211

marvelous211 wrote :

Where's the drivers fixing this issue?



It was a general comment. That's why I used words like "Those kinds of problems" and "some".

------------------------------ MCITP, MCTS, MCP
Reply to carver_g

carver_g wrote :

Good God, how much longer is this going to go on?

 

Until you get out of my thread and stop replying with your derogatory remarks. :lol:

 


Quote :


True. You have a killer o/c though.

 

Still less bandwidth. :non:

 


Quote :


You're asking people for opinions. That would be a poll, regardless if it is labeled as such.

 

I'm asking specifically ATI users. I already know the problem exist on g92 and g84.

 


Quote :


Now you're just being childish.

 

Gotta be one when talking to one. :lol:

Message quoted 1 times
Message edited by marvelous211 on 07-03-2008 at 07:27:13 AM
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Reply to marvelous211

carver_g wrote :

It was a general comment. That's why I used words like "Those kinds of problems" and "some".



It doesn't apply here. :sarcastic:

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Reply to marvelous211

marvelous211 wrote :

I'm asking specifically ATI users.



Then your thread shouldn't be titled "Anyone experiencing smoke problems with Nvidia cards?"

------------------------------ MCITP, MCTS, MCP
Reply to carver_g

carver_g wrote :

Then your thread shouldn't be titled "Anyone experiencing smoke problems with Nvidia cards?"

 

If you actually read the first post I'm specifically asking ATI users.

 

Thread title changed. Get out. :sol:

Message quoted 1 times
Message edited by marvelous211 on 07-03-2008 at 07:29:44 AM
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Reply to marvelous211

marvelous211 wrote :

It doesn't apply here.



You're the one who brought up drivers.

------------------------------ MCITP, MCTS, MCP
Reply to carver_g

carver_g wrote :

You're the one who brought up drivers.

 

You blind? :pt1cable:

 

Drivers was mentioned by ovaltine first. I was replying to him not you.


Message edited by marvelous211 on 07-03-2008 at 07:31:42 AM
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Reply to marvelous211

marvelous211 wrote :

If you actually read the first post I'm specifically asking ATI users.

Thread title changed. Get out. :sol:



Oh, all right. I was serious about your 8800gs review. Well done.

------------------------------ MCITP, MCTS, MCP
Reply to carver_g

carver_g wrote :

Oh, all right. I was serious about your 8800gs review. Well done.

 

Thank you. :na: no more okay. :)


Message edited by marvelous211 on 07-03-2008 at 07:36:41 AM
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Reply to marvelous211
- 0 +

It's now official, Nvidia hardware sucks. The tom's forum guru marvelous211 said so, and three of his mates agree.

Reply to croc
- 0 +

I believe that the smoke effect is done with a particle system, where alpha blending is enabled to create the transparency effect. Using an alpha channel to create a transparency effect (for smoke, fog, fire, etc.) is costly. However, it is hard to believe that the latest Nvidia cards would have a problem with this, since such an effect has been in use for a long time.

 

Maybe it is a problem with how the GRID game does it?

Message quoted 1 times
Message edited by DXRick on 07-03-2008 at 08:30:33 AM
Reply to DXRick
- -1 +

DXRick wrote :

I believe that the smoke effect is done with a particle system, where alpha rendering is enabled to create the transparency effect. Using an alpha channel to create a transparency effect (for smoke, fog, fire, etc.) is costly. However, it is hard to believe that the latest Nvidia cards would have a problem with this, since such an effect has been in use for a long time.

Maybe it is a problem with how the GRID game does it?



That's the first sensible response in this thread so far.

Oh, and driver updates can fix issues with rendering certain types of effects.

Reply to zipz0p

it could also be particle effects? but with tons of those any card can get slow down.

 

I do get slowdown in smoke(Grid Demo), but nearly as bad as mentioned(almost unnoticeable since the smoke covers almost the full screen).

 

And yes, I DRIVE BAD(think of always in last)!!

 

In other games that have this(smoke/particle slowdowns), i have seen it on both nvidia and ati hardware.

 

Way back it seemed like my Geforce 4 ti was hit hard by this, but its because the card ran 60 fps then dropped to 24, whereas the old card could not break 35 and the fall from 35 to 24 is not as noticeable as 60 to 24. Everyone has a different tolerance for frame rate changes.


Message edited by nukemaster on 07-03-2008 at 08:46:50 AM
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