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Smoke problems on Nvidia hardware

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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July 3, 2008 1:20:32 AM

I recently got GRID and it performs well except for the fact that when tires smoke all over the screen my frame rates drop to 10-15fps while the actually game play averages over 40fps. This isn't the only game that chokes with smoke either. In bf2 when artillery is blasting on my screen with smoke it drops to 30fps or so in some intense situations. I also noticed this on my 8600gts and now 8800gs.

I've had a 1950pro and it didn't drop the frame rates like this not to a point it becomes a slide show.

If you have a modern ATI card would you mind giving some feedback?
July 3, 2008 1:55:35 AM

I never had this problem when I was running single 8800 GT

I however have had this problem in the past on other systems in Call of Duty 2 - but only when smoke grenades were involved
July 3, 2008 3:15:13 AM

yea my 8800 GT starts puffing smoke when i play grid it tends to make my components heat up, but it dosnt seem to slow down when smoke appears in-game.
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July 3, 2008 3:40:22 AM

papasmurf211 said:
yea my 8800 GT starts puffing smoke when i play grid it tends to make my components heat up, but it dosnt seem to slow down when smoke appears in-game.


I'm talking about when you start burning your tires and the car goes in circles trying to get traction. Little bit of smoke particles doesn't make it choke to 10-20fps. It's just for a split second does it drop like that in those rare instances.

Someone told me in another web that his 8800gtx does the same thing. So it's definitely Nvidia.

Now I just want to hear from ATI users who tried GRID>
July 3, 2008 3:44:12 AM

Okay, so if its "definitely nvidia" why don't I have this issue?? I don't understand that rationale and i've played a crapload of GRID without this kind of issue
July 3, 2008 3:52:31 AM

ovaltineplease said:
Okay, so if its "definitely nvidia" why don't I have this issue?? I don't understand that rationale and i've played a crapload of GRID without this kind of issue


Perhaps you didn't crash and burn. Better driver? :na: 
July 3, 2008 3:57:32 AM


I've played GRID to the end and haven't had this specific issue. Vista 64 with sig.
July 3, 2008 4:03:31 AM

Did you try looking at what FPS you are running? Because in another forum a guy with a 8800gt says it chokes with GRID smoke particles.
July 3, 2008 4:12:28 AM



marvelous211 said:
Did you try looking at what FPS you are running?


I haven't, but I can safely say it wasn't a 'slide show' like you described.

marvelous211 said:
Because in another forum a guy with a 8800gt says it chokes with GRID smoke particles.


One guy in one forum makes it a universal 8800GT problem?
July 3, 2008 4:14:46 AM

carver_g said:
I haven't, but I can safely say it wasn't a 'slide show' like you described.



One guy in one forum makes it a universal 8800GT problem?


It's just for a split second only when burning rubber. Perhaps you miss it.

Not one guy. A moderator in another forum says his 8800gtx does it. Another guy says his 8800gt does it. My 8800gs does it. :pt1cable: 
July 3, 2008 4:18:15 AM

awhile back while playing NFS III on a Dell XPS running a 700 MHz Pentium III, whenever there was smoke the framerates would drop considerably, but once the smoke cleared, play was fine.
The videocard was an NVidia, 32MB.
Hmmmm.
July 3, 2008 4:22:57 AM

marvelous211 said:
It's just for a split second only when burning rubber. Perhaps you miss it.


That's possible; I may not see it as much because I have the view set to inside the car. In the Le Mans races, there is a fair amount of smoke from the other cars but I haven't seen a large drop in the framerate. All settings high, BTW.

marvelous211 said:
Not one guy. A moderator in another forum says his 8800gtx does it. Another guy says his 8800gt does it. My 8800gs does it.


Right, three guys. How many cards has Nvidia sold? :pt1cable: 
July 3, 2008 4:24:11 AM

NFS is another that had a lot of smoke which I had a problem with my 8600gts but not on my 1950pro.
July 3, 2008 4:25:31 AM

i did not know dell made the xps back in the p3 dayz
July 3, 2008 4:34:51 AM

carver_g said:
That's possible; I may not see it as much because I have the view set to inside the car. In the Le Mans races, there is a fair amount of smoke from the other cars but I haven't seen a large drop in the framerate. All settings high, BTW.


That must be it you are viewing inside your vehicle where you can't even see rear tires burning rubber. :pt1cable: 

I'm running ultra settings with 4xAA @ 1440x900 resolution. Don't care for high settings.



Right, three guys. How many cards has Nvidia sold? :pt1cable: said:

Right, three guys. How many cards has Nvidia sold? :pt1cable: 


Did anyone ask every Nvidia users if they had smoke problems? I would rather trust my own judgment than yours honestly. :sarcastic: 

This is the reason why I'm asking ATI users to give feedback.

I remember playing 1950pro and I never had issues with smoke. I've owned 8600gts and 8800gs recently and both had problems with smoke.
July 3, 2008 4:35:06 AM

marvelous211 said:
My 8800gs


Nice review of your 8800GS, btw. Just read it.
July 3, 2008 4:42:41 AM

marvelous211 said:
That must be it you are viewing inside your vehicle where you can't even see rear tires burning rubber.


There are cars right in front of me burning rubber. Lots of it. Besides, the from the rear of the car is the wuss way to race.

marvelous211 said:
I'm running ultra settings with 4xAA @ 1440x900 resolution. Don't care for high settings.


Sorry, I should have said the highest (ultra) settings @1680x1050. Also 4xAA.

marvelous211 said:
Did anyone ask every Nvidia users if they had smoke problems? I would rather trust my own judgment than yours honestly.


Down boy! I'm just saying that three users does not a hard fact make.

marvelous211 said:
This is the reason why I'm asking ATI users to give feedback.


If you really want to know if Nvidia cards have this smoke problem and ATI users do not, you would ask for input from both sides for a balanced response.


July 3, 2008 4:45:40 AM

I imagine you have enough sense to update drivers and what have you, but did you check your nvidia panel settings for grid to see if anything was uh defaulted to a setting maybe it shouldnt be (ie: T.R.A.A) that could have a detriment to that?

Oh, one weird bug I will note that I had with Grid. When quitting from the game, sometimes the program stays resident in memory, 850 mb worth - so I just end process and its a done deal; but thats the only issue i've had. Vista64

I do know that when I did have Grid still "running" after I exited the game, it had a serious impact on my performance in other games. I don't know if this sort of thing is related or not but I just thought i'd throw it out there.
July 3, 2008 4:47:44 AM

carver_g said:
There are cars right in front of me burning rubber. Lots of it. Besides, the from the rear of the car is the wuss way to race.



haha i like the wuss way

I will say this: why is every single driver in Grid 4 foot 2 inches? Its like the cars have bucket seats in them that touch the ground cause I swear you can barely see over the bloody dashboard in 1st person mode. I can't say I ever drove a car IRL where I felt like I had to lean forward and peer over the dash just to see the road..
July 3, 2008 4:49:09 AM

carver_g said:
There are cars right in front of me burning rubber. Lots of it. Besides, the from the rear of the car is the wuss way to race.


Not like how your own cars burn rubber than a computer. Also viewing insider your car raises fps with GRID. I bet you didn't even notice that either. :pt1cable:  So much for your judgment. :sarcastic: 




Down boy! I'm just saying that three users does not a hard fact make. said:

Down boy! I'm just saying that three users does not a hard fact make.


Shall we have a poll boy? Shall i make it a fact for you? :lol: 


If you really want to know if Nvidia cards have this smoke problem and ATI users do not, you would ask for input from both sides for a balanced response. said:

If you really want to know if Nvidia cards have this smoke problem and ATI users do not, you would ask for input from both sides for a balanced response.


That's why I'm asking ATI users to give some feedback but what we have is this lame 8800gt lover. :pfff: 
July 3, 2008 4:50:31 AM

ovaltineplease said:
Oh, one weird bug I will note that I had with Grid. When quitting from the game, sometimes the program stays resident in memory, 850 mb worth - so I just end process and its a done deal; but thats the only issue i've had. Vista64


Yeah, I have the same problem with my Vista 64 system. There is a workaround I found on the GRID forums but it didn't work for me. Also had the logitech steering wheel bug but that was fixed in a patch.

July 3, 2008 4:56:15 AM

ovaltineplease said:
I imagine you have enough sense to update drivers and what have you, but did you check your nvidia panel settings for grid to see if anything was uh defaulted to a setting maybe it shouldnt be (ie: T.R.A.A) that could have a detriment to that?

Oh, one weird bug I will note that I had with Grid. When quitting from the game, sometimes the program stays resident in memory, 850 mb worth - so I just end process and its a done deal; but thats the only issue i've had. Vista64

I do know that when I did have Grid still "running" after I exited the game, it had a serious impact on my performance in other games. I don't know if this sort of thing is related or not but I just thought i'd throw it out there.


I had this same issue with 8600gts with NFS and BF2 where it would choke with screen full of smoke. Drivers doesn't magically clear up smoke problems.

[i said:
Originally posted by: n7
Yeah smoke kills my fps on my 8800 GTX.

Fps death by particles!

Anyone with an AMD card care to chime in on the smoke issue in GRID?]Originally posted by: n7
Yeah smoke kills my fps on my 8800 GTX.

Fps death by particles!

Anyone with an AMD card care to chime in on the smoke issue in GRID?




[i said:
Originally posted by: error8
said:

It's normal. You have so many particles that the card has to render at the same time, so it's going to choke. This was also found in NFS games, so I never look at it like being a bad thing. Maybe the physix stuff will solve it. :laugh;]Originally posted by: error8
It's normal. You have so many particles that the card has to render at the same time, so it's going to choke. This was also found in NFS games, so I never look at it like being a bad thing. Maybe the physix stuff will solve it. :laugh;
July 3, 2008 4:58:11 AM

marvelous211 said:
Also viewing insider your car raises fps with GRID. I bet you didn't even notice that either. So much for your judgment.


Did you notice I'm also running at a higher rez than you? That would equal out the FPS somewhat.

marvelous211 said:
Shall we have a poll boy? Shall i make it a fact for you?


That would be why you started the thread, obviously.

marvelous211 said:
That's why I'm asking ATI users to give some feedback but what we have is this lame 8800gt lover.


Oh man, you are amusing, I'll give you that. I've had a 9800pro and an x850xt. Great cards.
July 3, 2008 5:00:53 AM

marvelous211 said:
Drivers doesn't magically clear up smoke problems.


Those kinds of problems are exactly what some driver updates fix.
July 3, 2008 5:03:05 AM

marvelous211 said:
I had this same issue with 8600gts with NFS and BF2 where it would choke with screen full of smoke. Drivers doesn't magically clear up smoke problems.



I went from my manufacturer's video driver to nvidia's driver once upon a time, and it halved my fps in gears of war - hell I never changed a setting, just the driver!

If you are THAT well acquainted with the nuances of your issue than I think you should be talking to Grid technical support, not we lowly peons ! lol
July 3, 2008 5:08:58 AM

carver_g said:
Did you notice I'm also running at a higher rez than you? That would equal out the FPS somewhat.


Such logic. Bravo... You are also forgetting the fact that your 8800gt is faster than my 8800gs. :sarcastic: 


That would be why you started the thread, obviously. said:

That would be why you started the thread, obviously.


This thread wasn't a poll but if you want I can make into one to please you. :sarcastic: 



Oh man, you are amusing, I'll give you that. I've had a 9800pro and an x850xt. Great cards. said:

Oh man, you are amusing, I'll give you that. I've had a 9800pro and an x850xt. Great cards.


It doesn't mean you don't sleep with your 8800gt now. :lol: 
July 3, 2008 5:13:21 AM

I don't. My experience is a slight slowdown but for only a split second.

Athlon64 X2 @ 3015Mhz with Radeon 3850 256MB user here.
July 3, 2008 5:13:27 AM

ovaltineplease said:
I went from my manufacturer's video driver to nvidia's driver once upon a time, and it halved my fps in gears of war - hell I never changed a setting, just the driver!

If you are THAT well acquainted with the nuances of your issue than I think you should be talking to Grid technical support, not we lowly peons ! lol


I'm using Nvidia drivers dude. :non: 

It's a fact there are lot of noobs in Tom's forum but I think it's mostly teenagers in here or they really never tried studying up on hardware and try proving theories or actually read an article besides benchmarks.
July 3, 2008 5:15:49 AM

carver_g said:
Those kinds of problems are exactly what some driver updates fix.


Where's the drivers fixing this issue?

Nvidia has problems with lot of smoke particles. How can you fix it with drivers when it's limited to their hardware? :sarcastic: 
July 3, 2008 5:17:33 AM


Good God, how much longer is this going to go on?

marvelous211 said:
Please do not spew your noob info anymore. You are also forgetting the fact that your 8800gt is faster than my 8800gs.


True. You have a killer o/c though.

marvelous211 said:
This thread wasn't a poll but if you want I can make into one to please you.


You're asking people for opinions. That would be a poll, regardless if it is labeled as such.

marvelous211 said:
It doesn't mean you don't sleep with your 8800gt now.


Now you're just being childish.
July 3, 2008 5:19:12 AM

stridervm said:
I don't. My experience is a slight slowdown but for only a split second.

Athlon64 X2 @ 3015Mhz with Radeon 3850 256MB user here.


Did you trying using fraps to measure performance? What resolution and settings?
July 3, 2008 5:19:37 AM

marvelous211 said:
Where's the drivers fixing this issue?


It was a general comment. That's why I used words like "Those kinds of problems" and "some".
July 3, 2008 5:23:27 AM

carver_g said:
Good God, how much longer is this going to go on?


Until you get out of my thread and stop replying with your derogatory remarks. :lol: 



True. You have a killer o/c though. said:

True. You have a killer o/c though.


Still less bandwidth. :non: 



You're asking people for opinions. That would be a poll, regardless if it is labeled as such. said:

You're asking people for opinions. That would be a poll, regardless if it is labeled as such.


I'm asking specifically ATI users. I already know the problem exist on g92 and g84.



Now you're just being childish. said:

Now you're just being childish.


Gotta be one when talking to one. :lol: 
July 3, 2008 5:24:45 AM

carver_g said:
It was a general comment. That's why I used words like "Those kinds of problems" and "some".


It doesn't apply here. :sarcastic: 
July 3, 2008 5:25:55 AM

marvelous211 said:
I'm asking specifically ATI users.


Then your thread shouldn't be titled "Anyone experiencing smoke problems with Nvidia cards?"

July 3, 2008 5:28:04 AM

carver_g said:
Then your thread shouldn't be titled "Anyone experiencing smoke problems with Nvidia cards?"


If you actually read the first post I'm specifically asking ATI users.

Thread title changed. Get out. :sol: 
July 3, 2008 5:30:26 AM

marvelous211 said:
It doesn't apply here.


You're the one who brought up drivers.
July 3, 2008 5:31:23 AM

carver_g said:
You're the one who brought up drivers.


You blind? :pt1cable: 

Drivers was mentioned by ovaltine first. I was replying to him not you.
July 3, 2008 5:32:02 AM

marvelous211 said:
If you actually read the first post I'm specifically asking ATI users.

Thread title changed. Get out. :sol: 


Oh, all right. I was serious about your 8800gs review. Well done.
July 3, 2008 5:35:11 AM

carver_g said:
Oh, all right. I was serious about your 8800gs review. Well done.


Thank you. :na:  no more okay. :) 
July 3, 2008 6:02:21 AM

It's now official, Nvidia hardware sucks. The tom's forum guru marvelous211 said so, and three of his mates agree.

a b U Graphics card
July 3, 2008 6:24:50 AM

I believe that the smoke effect is done with a particle system, where alpha blending is enabled to create the transparency effect. Using an alpha channel to create a transparency effect (for smoke, fog, fire, etc.) is costly. However, it is hard to believe that the latest Nvidia cards would have a problem with this, since such an effect has been in use for a long time.

Maybe it is a problem with how the GRID game does it?
July 3, 2008 6:32:40 AM

DXRick said:
I believe that the smoke effect is done with a particle system, where alpha rendering is enabled to create the transparency effect. Using an alpha channel to create a transparency effect (for smoke, fog, fire, etc.) is costly. However, it is hard to believe that the latest Nvidia cards would have a problem with this, since such an effect has been in use for a long time.

Maybe it is a problem with how the GRID game does it?


That's the first sensible response in this thread so far.

Oh, and driver updates can fix issues with rendering certain types of effects.
a c 112 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
July 3, 2008 6:42:43 AM

it could also be particle effects? but with tons of those any card can get slow down.

I do get slowdown in smoke(Grid Demo), but nearly as bad as mentioned(almost unnoticeable since the smoke covers almost the full screen).

And yes, I DRIVE BAD(think of always in last)!!

In other games that have this(smoke/particle slowdowns), i have seen it on both nvidia and ati hardware.

Way back it seemed like my Geforce 4 ti was hit hard by this, but its because the card ran 60 fps then dropped to 24, whereas the old card could not break 35 and the fall from 35 to 24 is not as noticeable as 60 to 24. Everyone has a different tolerance for frame rate changes.
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