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Are my temps ok?

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May 21, 2009 5:27:52 AM

i7 920 D0
Asus 6PT V2 Deluxe
Dark Knight
Antec 1200
Corsair 1000 waatt
OCZ XMP 6GB Ram
Vcore=1.2
Bclk=180

The screen shot is with prime95 running with blended for a few minutes.


More about : temps

a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
May 21, 2009 2:03:18 PM

It is a bit high for just blend testing. Once you use smallFTT, temps will most likely hit 80C or more.

The Dark Knight is a mid range cooler, ideal for high clocked dual cores, however when it comes to quad, T.R.U.E. or Megahelam would be better.

If you don't plan on pushing your CPU more, than you should be fine with those temps.
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
May 21, 2009 4:09:54 PM

hasteveha,

Nice rig. As flyin15sec has suggested, Blend is a fluctuating workload, so run Prime95 Small FFT's, since it's a steady-state 100% workload, and is the standard for thermal benchmarking. Also, the flame icons in SpeedFan are just alarm limits which simply need to be adjusted under the "Configure" button and "Temperatures" tab. Click on each individual item and increase the "Warning" temperature. Regardless, your temps are already a few degrees above specifications, as I will explain.

Intel's Thermal Specification for the Core i7's is 68c, which is shown in their Processor Spec Finder - http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLB... This means CPU temperature, NOT Core temperature, which is a very common misconception among many users.

There is a 5c gradient between CPU temperature and Core temperatures, which is shown in the following Intel document - http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0709/0709.1861.pdf This means that the corresponding Core temperature is 73c, as follows:

Maximum CPU temperature (Tcase Max) 68c + 5c = 73c Core temperatures.

Core i7 specs:

CPU (Tcase Max) 68c
Core (Tjunction) 73c
Vcore Max 1.375

Intel has stated that the Core temperature sensors (Digital Thermal Sensors) are designed for overtemp protection only, such as Throttle and Shutdown near 100c (Tjunction Max), which would correspond to a CPU temperature of 95c, and is far too hot for sane operation. Intel has further stated that the Core temperature sensors become less accurate as temperatures decrease, and should be regarded as unreliable at idle temperatures.

Unlike the Core temperature sensors, the CPU temperature sensor (Analog Thermal Diode) was designed to be linear from low idle temperatures thru high load temperatures. This is why motherboard manufacturers, as per agreement with Intel, support CPU temperature, but not Core temperatures in their monitoring utilities (such as Asus Probe) which is included on the Installation CD.

For your i7, CPU temperatures above 68c and Core temperatures above 73c should be regarded as an "overtemp" condition.

If you'd like to learn more about how processor temperatures work, or how to calibrate your temperatures, then check out the Sticky at the top of this Forum: Core i7 and Core 2 Temperature Guide - http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/221745-29-sticky-core...

Comp :sol: 
Related resources
May 21, 2009 4:18:23 PM

actually,those temps are from running small fft's
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
May 21, 2009 4:21:25 PM

What is your ambient?
May 21, 2009 4:51:06 PM



Above is small running for 30 minutes



idle below

a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
May 21, 2009 4:55:03 PM

What is your ambient?
May 21, 2009 5:03:17 PM

Ambient = Room Temp
How would I find that out? My room is pretty hot
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
May 21, 2009 5:07:21 PM

Position a trusted analog or digital indoor thermometer near your computer's primary air intake.
May 21, 2009 5:08:30 PM

it says 76 degrees
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
May 21, 2009 5:15:29 PM

24.44c
May 21, 2009 5:26:13 PM

lol, actually its 79 now. My dad said I should add 1 or 2 degrees to it, it's a cheap temp guage.
Thanks for your help. Hey so my settings are ok so far?Should I try and lower the vcore? it's at 1.2
I left the memory on the lowest settings, should I start tweaking that now
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
May 21, 2009 5:32:22 PM

OK, ambient is about 26c. I see some discrepancies between Real Temp 3.00 and SpeedFan 4.38. What does Real Temp and SpeedFan show at 10 minutes with Prime95 Small FFT's?
May 21, 2009 6:05:36 PM



I closed everything out,ran it for 11 minutes.
Ambient room temp 79
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
May 21, 2009 6:53:56 PM

Are your fans at 100% RPM?
May 21, 2009 6:59:27 PM

CompuTronix said:
Are your fans at 100% RPM?

I think so, the max the dark knight goes it like 2000, rpm,
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
May 21, 2009 7:08:18 PM

Is your case in a position where it can breathe, like not inside a desk enclosure?

Are your case fans also at 100% RPM?

In Real Temp "Settings", what are the values for "Set Tj Max"?

Which OS are you running?
May 21, 2009 7:45:23 PM

I'm running win7 rc1.the case is in an open area with good airflow. I'm at the mall right now I'll check tjmax when I get home. How do I find out if fan is 100%
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
May 21, 2009 7:55:50 PM

Your Antec 1200 fans each have a switch for low/medium/high. Also, I've duplicated your settings on my rig, which is calibrated, so I know my temperatures are accurate.

Ambient 26c
Vcore load 1.208
3.6 Ghz
BCLK 180

Real Temp:
Cores 67c

SpeedFan:
CPU 62c
Cores 67c

Since my Xiggy 964 is slightly less efficient than your 1283, I would expect your temperatures to be at least equal with mine, if not a few degrees lower.
May 21, 2009 8:29:14 PM

yes my front 3 intake fans are set at low. The top fan blows air out at medium. Back 2 blow air out medium. Inside I have a fan that blows air to the heatsink from hd bay. I also have a 4890 video card
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
May 21, 2009 8:44:18 PM

Let me know what Real Temp "Set Tj Max" values are.

Also, since the Dark Knight includes the Retention Bracket, mounting issues are typically non-existent, however, are you certain that you removed the clear protective shipping adhesive from the bottom of the Heat Pipes?

With respect to your case, cooler and Vcore, your SpeedFan temperatures make sense as compared to mine, but your Real Temp values do not. Real Temp and SpeedFan should agree. I'm running with case covers removed, and all fans at 100% RPM. I've duplicated your settings and have tested with Prime95 25.9 Small FFT's, Real Temp 3.0 and SpeedFan 4.38. Nonetheless, I'm using Vista 32 SP1, instead of Windows 7 RC1.

Try repeating your Prime run with the cover removed and your fans cranked up, but at the end of 10 minutes, open Real Temp to record the values, then close it and open SpeedFan to record the values, so that Real Temp and SpeedFan are not open at the same time. It's possible that the two utilities are interacting with one another in Windows 7 when they're open simultaneously. It's a variable we must eliminate.
May 21, 2009 10:14:55 PM

I have dual boot setup, I'll try vista 64 bit. When I installed the dark knight I removed this plastic that's on the part that contacts with the CPU, it was sticky, I used the two bottle remover from arctic silver company to clean it before I put on arctic silver. When I mounted heat sink I made sure all mounts are screwed down firm and tight. I will run the tests without the case when I get home. I set vcore 1.2, something else 1.8 and 1.2 for the one after that. I'll take a screen shot
May 21, 2009 11:55:55 PM



running Vista 64, with the case open. The set tjmax settings are on there.


Bios settings



I'm now going to do the 10 minute test


Thanks
May 22, 2009 1:15:05 AM








those are both after 10 minutes



May 22, 2009 2:21:59 AM

I reset everything in bios to default, running Vista 64.Case is open,All the fans on the antec 1200 are on High
Ambient Temp =77




a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
May 22, 2009 3:23:16 AM

Good work. Since your ambient is 25c (77F), SpeedFan needs a -4c offset for CPU temperature. Regarding Core temperatures, SpeedFan 4.38 is indicating below ambient, which is obviopusly wrong.

Although SpeedFan 4.37 was 15c too low on my C0, 4.38 reads the Core temperatures correctly. Similarily, SpeedFan 4.38 reads15c too low on your D0, which should be corrected when 4.39 is released. For the present, SpeedFan simply needs a +15c offset for your D0 Cores.

Regardless, I'm sure you'll find that Core Temp 0.99.4 will agree with Real Temp 3.0. Nevertheless, your Core temperatures are still 2 to 3c too high at idle, and about 7 to 8c too high at load. As I mentioned in one of my previous post, when I duplicated your settings on my rig, your Core temperatures with your Dark Knight should've been at least equal to my Xiggy 964 with 68 CFM push-pull fans, if not 1 to 2c lower.

Possible explanations are:

(1) Convex or concave processor IHS (Integrated Heat Spreader).

(2) Improperly manufactured (contoured) heat pipe assembly.

(3) Excess Thermal Compound.

(4) Combination of the above.

Keep in mind that the Dark Knight is slightly less efficient than the original Xigmatek HDT-S1283, which is shown in the following Frosty Tech cooler rankings: http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=238...
May 22, 2009 4:01:28 AM

hm... I just sent an RMA for the Dark Knight, I ordered a Megahelam. In the mean time let's try and overclock this one to 3.66 . What settings do you reccomend I change?
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
May 22, 2009 4:20:57 AM

To be continued ... I've got to call it a day. You're already at 3.6, so 3.66 isn't worth tinkering with.

When you swap out your cooler, be certain to check your IHS for flatness. Once you get squared away with your new cooler, your rig should Prime within Intel's Thermal Specifications (68c CPU & 73c Core @ 22c ambient) at the higher Vcore required for 3.8 Ghz.

Later,

Comp :sol: 
June 20, 2009 2:09:31 PM

finally got my Megahelem installed with 2 fans, push pull. I set all the bios setttings to default, I turned all the case fans to High.
My cpu is an i7 920 D0. Here are the readings on idle, Ambient temp 74. Do my temps look ok before I start OC? I will list my temps with prime 95 running small after 10 minutes also. Thanks computronix










June 20, 2009 2:50:50 PM

Here are my temps after 10-15 minutes on small. I think everything is good now. I should probley try and overclock higher?

June 22, 2009 4:51:30 PM

CompuTronix said:
Intel has stated that the Core temperature sensors (Digital Thermal Sensors) are designed for overtemp protection only, such as Throttle and Shutdown near 100c (Tjunction Max), which would correspond to a CPU temperature of 95c, and is far too hot for sane operation.

CompuTronix -

OC Noob here, trying to learn and understand. If Intel says Throttle and Shutdown occur at ~100ºC, why would Prime max temps of ~95ºC be "insane"? Not trying to be argumentative, but am trying to understand. I see guys saying 60ºC is the max they're comfortable with for long term operation. I think in your Core Temp Guide sticky you said that my Q9450 should be TJMax=65ºC for "safe" operation.

I'm just curious... If I had a car with an engine that redlines at 6,500 RPM, I ccould run it one heluva long time with wide open throttle shifts occurring at 95% of that redline value, mostly because the car wouldn't actually SEE wide open throttle for very long or very often. From what I understand, Prime is essentially running the "engine" at (in the case of my car engine analogy) the 6,500 RPM "redline" endlessly for a day. Assuming that temperature (TJMax in this case) is the factor that "kills" processors, why such a large safety margin?

Like I say, just trying to understand. I'm fairly lost in all the techno of the individual BIOS settings and have just started fiddling w/ my Q9450 rig on an ASUS PQ5-E on a Dark Knight, and inadvertently ran for about 5-10 mins overvoltage (1.7v on a 1.3625v max Q9450), generating temps near the 99ºC TJMax value, according to (IIRC) CoreTemp.

Not trying to hijack the OP's thread, but am very interested in understanding the statement you made about max temps for sane operation.

Thanks!
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
June 22, 2009 5:59:24 PM

Remember that 100c = 212f, which is damned smokin HOT! :ouch:  No knowledgeable or experienced overclocker in their right mind would run their processor at those temperatures ... not even for test purposes! :non: 

Cool = stable. :love: 

Also, don't confuse specifications with temperatures.

Tcase is a temperature.
Tcase Max is a specification.

Tjunction is a temperature.
Tjunction Max is a specification.

Intel's Q9450 specifications:

Vcore Max 1.3625
Tcase Max (CPU) 71c
Tjunction (Core) 76c

Notice the 5c Gradient between the Tcase Max specification, and the coresponding Tjunction temperature? This is the correct thermal relationship between CPU and Core.

Comp :sol: 
June 22, 2009 6:05:00 PM

To be continued from last time. How do my temps look now? I am using the megahelem now.


CompuTronix said:
Remember that 100c = 212f, which is damned smokin HOT! :ouch:  No knowledgeable or experienced overclocker in their right mind would run their processor at those temperatures ... not even for test purposes! :non: 

Cool = stable. :love: 

Also, don't confuse specifications with temperatures.

Tcase is a temperature.
Tcase Max is a specification.

Tjunction is a temperature.
Tjunction Max is a specification.

Q9450 specs:

Vcore Max 1.3625
Tcase Max (CPU) 71c
Tjunction (Core) 76c

Notice the 5c Gradient between the Tcase Max specification, and the coresponding Tjunction temperature? This is the correct thermal relationship between CPU and Core.

Comp :sol: 

a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
June 22, 2009 6:22:05 PM

From the temperatures you posted above, they look great, but you don't say at what ambient. Nevertheless, since the mean Core temperature is 63.5c, this means that you have about 10c available to accomodate a higher Vcore and a higher overclock.

Remember the i7 specs:

Vcore Max 1.375
Tcase Max (CPU) 68c
Tjunction (Core) 73c

Comp :sol: 
!