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My first Water cooled Computer

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May 25, 2009 1:37:59 AM

Ok these are the parts that i have ordedand some that i have put in. I am just waiting for the rest of the parts so i just want to see what you thing. Latter i will put youtube video. Ho i will most likely be done after the 9 th of June.

Case with pump, radiator, CUP block and tubing.

Thermaltake Armor+LCS

Danger Den Black Ice GT Stealth 280 Radiator - Black
AeroCool 140mm Streamliner Fan

I added to the system chipset blocks
EK-NB/SB 5
EK-NB/SB ASUS 1
EK-Mosfet ASUS M4

GPU Cooling
Swiftech CALDERA-HS Heatsink for AMD HD4870X
2 WATER BLOCK SWIFTECH|MCW60-R R

So this is what im going to use and i will post latter how it worked out after i get back from Las Vegas on the 9th or 10th

Here are to pctures.


More about : water cooled computer

a c 86 K Overclocking
May 25, 2009 12:17:06 PM

Thats scary. A 220 sized older rad to cool all of than on smaller sized hose and quick disconnects on the hose.

I feel for your pump and the resultant temps for all of the parts.

Methinks it looks awesome, methinks you missed something about heatload, Delta T temps, flow rates, block restrictions, etc etc.

Keep us posted? This could amaze me or...................
Related resources
May 25, 2009 1:24:55 PM

^ it won't, it's got a thermaltake WCS inside it so you'd get lower temps with a TRUE and a good fan or something equivalent or better than a TRUE.
May 25, 2009 4:56:14 PM

:cry:  Yes i do agree now that i have had a weak to really do some more research and here what is wrong with the thermaltake.
I put so manny extra things on it to cool that it will not keep up I waisted some good money. :wahoo:  But luckily i have more to through into it. Now i can not return the case because i have done to much to it so im stuck with it so these are the thing that i will get next. First i will have to get a great high flow pump (Innovatek Eheim HPPS i High Power 12V Water Pump). I will also need to bet a now reservior so i plan to get Innovatek Tank-O-Matic and A second radiator. So with that i Sould be just fine but i will not know tell after i get back from Las Vegas.

So what do you think about what i want to add to the case. :pt1cable: 

May 25, 2009 5:05:52 PM

for water cooling components pretty much the only companies you should be looking at are alphacool, XSPC, EK-Supreme and zalman.
a b K Overclocking
May 25, 2009 7:58:02 PM

^Zalman and Alpha Cool don't make quality units. Period. The only water cooling "kit" worth considering is the Swiftech Apex Ultima (~$260-320).
See: http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/swh2edukit.html

Good brands for a custom loop:
Swiftech
Danger Den
EK
XSPC
D-Tek

My recommendations for an i7 loop: D5 pump (or better) + Swiftech GTZ + 320 rad
This is just for cooling the CPU. Probably overkill on the rad and the pump but it will cool the i7 easily even if OCed to a bit insane level.
May 25, 2009 9:17:55 PM

thank you Sniper
a b K Overclocking
May 25, 2009 10:45:06 PM

^ No problem. Btw if you don't/haven't seen these yet:


Note: This list is NOT mine. It's Conumdrum's usual cut'n paste. Nevertheless, it's a very good list of links. Start with the xtremesystems water cooling section stickies. Move on from there.
a c 86 K Overclocking
May 25, 2009 10:51:05 PM

I'll just snip the whole thing, I just redid parts of it.

Us guys have done the WC thing, there are basics you gotta know. Take a look, don't take it as a diss on you or a rebuttal, look at as a friend saying "Dude, you gotta know what to say and how to communicate".
.......................................
CPU HS $65
GPU HS and air HS for vram and mosfets $95, full cover block, $100-$200
Radiator $60 min, up to $130
Pump $50 +
Resiviour $25
Hose, some barbs and clamps etc (min $25, more like $35)
Fans $15-30

I went top notch and spent close to $600 to cool my CPU and GPU.
First you gotta learn about WC. It's not like walking into Best Buy.
Spend a while (weeks is best for your sanity) at these links.
Look at the hundreds of loops close to your case and components in the stickies, read a couple 50 or so threads over the next week or so, you'll be on the ball to make the right choices and by then know how to put it together.
Not 'Roket Sience', but basic knowledge is required.
And you should spend a few hours on the listed sites reading threads. It's how we learn. Once the goodies show up on your doorstep your on your own.
For your benefit please spend a few days reading a LOT. At the busiest places for WC masters. Guys who have done it for YEARS at OC Forums and xtreme forums. It took me a while (I was OCing on air, aftermarket stuff, bios settings, best chipsets etc etc) to learn the language and the tricks to a easy install.

Don't expect miracles or SUPER DOOPER over clocks. What you will get is a quiet system that can handle OC to the max of your hardware IF you buy quality and buy smart. And minor maintenance too, a bonus for the water cooler.

Also while there please read on case mods etc. The radiators are not for small cases, pumps and hose routing, wire management and other things are important. Google your planned case and the word water-cooled in one line. You might get lucky.
............................
Edit: The next paragraph was from 2008. With the advent of the HOT i7 and bigger GPU's, it has changed. A 220 size MIN rad for an i7, you want big overclocks, better go 320 sized rad.
................................

IF you just cool your CPU and your NB if you want, you can get by with a 120.2 sized radiator (RAD). And MAYBE fit in inside depending on your mod skillz. You want to cool your GPU too, you'll need a 120.3 sized rad, and it probably won't fit inside. The rear external rad really works great. No matter what your adding 10lbs to your PC.

Once you got an idea of what is good/bad then start getting your system for WC put together and we'll be glad to help.
,…………………………………………………………
Here is the poop on solid info on air/water temps. The link is to an MCR320.
http://martin.skinneelabs.com/Swifte...20-Review.html
Scroll half way down and you can see the in/out air diff on the chart. It depends, like I said on fannage what the out air temp vs. the in temp is.

You can also see the water in/out is very close in temps. No more than 1.5 C. Amazing eh? I thought so too once I deciphered the charts.

So if you put a second rad with good airflow, you still get good results. Fannage needs to be higher to compensate for the increased air restriction. Meaning double fans on the rad setup, but it's a viable solution.

Equilibrium (tough word) means with a set heat load (idle/load) after an amount of time temps in a WC loop will stabilize. The heat load is the same, ambient air is the same, fannage is the same, pumps are the same, size of rads are the same, temps will stabilize for those conditions. Any of these parameters change, it has to stabilize. …………………………………………………………
Cleaning a loop, not a new loop: I do this once a year, I drain and refill at 6 months, the next time I do this……..
Wash hands very well, getting rid of hand oils.
For pumps and blocks, fittings, clamps, acrylic res/block parts.... not hose, tear it to smallest pieces, put in a bowl, heat water up not to boiling add 10% vinegar, when hot, pour over parts. Rinse in 10 min or so. Put aside.
The bocks will probably have some black oxidation. Take the copper parts out of the pile of parts you took out of the water. Dry well and pour ketchup on them, and set aside. Only the copper parts need this.
Rad cleaning: fill with very almost boiling hot water. Let sit 10 minutes, drain half out and shake for 5 min. Repeat till liquid is clean.
All the pump, block, fittings, and clamps, inspect, get in the tiniest corners with a tooth brush. Kind of meditative, time consuming, you learn a lot about o-ring size, how it all feels. Run a rag using a caat hanger and dish soap through the tubing, rinse well.
Rinse all the parts and hose with distilled, dry then really dry with an air compressor (nice extra step to get rid of water spots). Don’t need to dry the inside of the hose.
Now on to the copper parts, they should have been soaking an hour or two. A toothbrush and ketchup should clean much of the oxidation. It probably won’t be like new, but pretty darn good. Rinse, dry, and blow the parts.
That’s it.
………………………………………………………
Benching software and such is very varied. I use these for each purpose:
These are pretty standard and used by many.
Monitoring the PC temps overall: HWmonitor aka hardware monitor
CPUZ for CPU info
GPUZ for GPU info
CPU only: RealTemp
GPU only: ATI Tool, I have a Nivida GTX280, so it works on Nvidia

Loading/benching tools:
CPU loaders: Prime95 and OCCT
GPU Loaders: ATI Tool and the best one is Furmark, nothing pushes the GPU harder right now.
Benching for overall graphics/gaming performance is 3DMark06
……………………………………………………………
Guides
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=... Pretty up to date info and buying guide
 verclocking-and-cooling&Itemid=86" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://gilgameshreviews.com/index.php?option=com_conten... Another good guide
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=... What to do once all the stuff is in the door

Forums
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/index.php? Not a noob site, but great stickies
http://www.ocforums.com/ My fav, good peeps, know their stuff, less hardcore
http://www.over-clock.com/ivb/inde [...] opic=20277 A GREAT Europe site
http://www.overclock.net/water-cooling/ Decent site

Tests on equipment, not reviews, truly scientific tests
http://translate.google.com/transl [...] n&ie=UTF-8 Info on rad testing
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=22... More rad testing
http://skinneelabs.com/ Host for Martins lab and some newer tests
http://www.skinneelabs.com/MartinsLiquidLab/ Test results, very technical


Stores
http://www.dangerden.com/index.php [...] e&Itemid=1
http://www.petrastechshop.com/
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/
http://www.jab-tech.com/
http://www.performance-pcs.com



a b K Overclocking
May 26, 2009 1:38:17 AM

^Nice! I quoted you and put it on the WC sticky on toms. ;)  Perhaps I should write a new guide during Summer break. That stick is old.
a c 328 K Overclocking
May 26, 2009 7:08:15 PM

Yeah, I thought about doing a new/updated sticky, but its almost worth it to talk about components in general rather than talk about specific components as they seem to change quite often. The idea remains the same...just stay away from a boxed WC kit...and do your research. That might be a better focus as well as providing some good references and what to ask, etc...instead of "uh, what do I get'?
May 26, 2009 7:17:59 PM

Ok here is what i have order to help make what i have work better.

Swiftech MCP655-B A better Pump

Danger Den GTX Xtreme 240 Radiator A bigger Rad

AeroCool 120mm Turbine 2000 Quite fans

Innovatek Tank-O-Matic I plan on putting it in the case for good looks


I also gor more tubing and a grill for fams on rad.
a c 86 K Overclocking
May 26, 2009 8:20:09 PM

The fans might not be strong enough for that radiator. It needs high speed (loud) fans to work properly. Look at the Swiftech rads, the MCR series, best bang for the buck.

That rad isn't made by Danger Den, just so you know.

Thermochill/XSPC rads are tops for quiet and cooling
MCR series for medium fans and cost
The BIX you listed for screaming fans and good cooling.

Think of getting rid of the TT CPU waterblock as soon as possible. It is prone to leakage and is a very very poor performer.

I hope your getting rid of the aluminum rad thats part of the TT cooling. It will cause dissimilar metal corrosion in time, ruining all your copper parts.
a b K Overclocking
May 26, 2009 8:59:24 PM

Quote:


Think of getting rid of the TT CPU waterblock as soon as possible. It is prone to leakage and is a very very poor performer.

I hope your getting rid of the aluminum rad thats part of the TT cooling. It will cause dissimilar metal corrosion in time, ruining all your copper parts.

Both very good points. Take a look Google at what trouble people have has with the TT blocks. For starters:
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cf...

Just so you know OP, we are not trying to scare you away from water cooling but rather to show you that bad quality water cooling products can spell your hardware's doom.
May 26, 2009 11:09:21 PM

Shadow703793 said:
Quote:


Just so you know OP, we are not trying to scare you away from water cooling but rather to show you that bad quality water cooling products can spell your hardware's doom.
Quote:



There is no way you are scaring me away from water cooling I just wished i would have done a lil more reseach that i did it would have saved me like $300 or less :fou:  . I thank you guys for pointing me in the right direction.

Do you thing that one rad the size 250 would cool my CPU. Chip set, and GPU after i replace all that i listed above.

I did plan on replacing CPU block to just will have to wait tell i get back from Las Vegas.

I was going to wait on the small Rad though how long do you think i have to replace.

Well all in all right now I have a lot of replacement stuff coming and I am running the computer now with what i have . Just installing software so it will be easy to get every thing in and clocked later.
May 26, 2009 11:24:36 PM

Hay what to you thing about this CPU block

Zalman ZM-WBS
May 27, 2009 12:38:23 AM

Ok i just bot this one

:wahoo:  EK Supreme Universal

a b K Overclocking
May 27, 2009 1:21:34 AM

A 250 rad will be enough to cool the CPU ONLY (i7). Add another rad for the GPU. Don't bother cooling NB,etc. And like Conumdrum said, choosing the rad also affects what fans you can use.
a c 86 K Overclocking
May 27, 2009 5:12:26 AM

Some say a 120x2 (250???) is barely enough for an overclocked i7. Most try a 120x3 if they can. But a good 120x2 coupled with loud fans is enough.
May 27, 2009 6:36:31 AM

What do you buys think about lapping the CPU for better contact to block. Oh and i got a 120X2 rad but i got the wrong fans so i will have to send it back.( they do not move enough air sad) But anyway I will see how it all works out. Let me know about Lapping.
a c 86 K Overclocking
May 27, 2009 5:46:41 PM

Don't lap untill you need to.

Your flying through this with wayy to much speed. You should slow down. You could of got the right fans by doing your research first etc etc.
May 27, 2009 7:27:42 PM

I will be taking 2 weak to do more research while parts come. I do not plan on any mods tell I know more I just wanted to know if you have lapped CPU and what you thoghts on the matter. The pictures I have added are of my comp. as us, Cooling CPU, and chip set i kept the GPU out of the loop. The temp of the water is stable with laod at 34c for now with out overclocking it. I plan on leaving it that way tell i get my rad, CPU block EK supreme, res, and fans. Well let me know what you thiunk about lapping and trust me im taking my time after Flushing about $250 or more.



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a c 86 K Overclocking
May 28, 2009 5:47:00 AM

I thought 34C and went OMG. Then since you never mentioned the chip your using, I had to get the numbers off the Mobo box of your early pic. Yea, for a basic AMD non-uber chip not overclocked, it's about right I guess. What program are you using to load the PC and please don't tell me a game.......
a b K Overclocking
May 28, 2009 11:53:55 AM

Conumdrum said:
Some say a 120x2 (250???) is barely enough for an overclocked i7. Most try a 120x3 if they can. But a good 120x2 coupled with loud fans is enough.

I was not considering OC with the 250 (yeah I meant 120x2) rad. And yes, if OCing a MINIMUM of 120x3.
a c 328 K Overclocking
May 28, 2009 2:53:51 PM

Core i7= space heater. I'd like one, but dang, its almost summer. :) 

Good call on the EK; better than that TT piece of sh!t.

MCR rads by Swiftech are good for the cost...I have 2 of the MCR320's and they work well for a OC Q6600 and SLI 9800GTX+'s. Of course, an i7 is a monster.
May 28, 2009 8:29:34 PM

OK i need help with ram just need to know somthing
i have crosair 8gigs 2gig X 4 1600 9-9-9-9-24
sould i keep this ram or send it back dos the 99924 to hi i was told i should get ram with 22226 lower numbers better is this true
May 28, 2009 9:40:05 PM

ok i did the research and im sending it back
i order Mushkin Redline 6GB 1.65v timming at 6-6-5-18
a c 328 K Overclocking
May 29, 2009 1:59:02 PM

You can manually adjust the timings; you just might have them bomb out if the RAM doesn't like them. You should also be able to raise the voltage for the RAM as well if you are going to OC, but know that when you OC the FSB/RAM, you need to loosen the timings (usually).
May 30, 2009 12:31:39 AM

ok just an update i have 2 rad coming 1 140X2 and a 120X2. i order 1 then canceled that order reordered another rad and gear the company sent me the first order even though i cansaled it with out charging me for it so I'm getting 2ed rad for free :D 
I did the research and went ahead and lapped my Cup. When i get the EK block i may lap if it dos not pass the flat test.
ALong with the order i got extra hose, fan/ temp dsiplay with 5 probes, Ek block, faster ram swiftech pump 355, fans, rez and other things i cant think of right now. but as you can see i replacing just about the hole cooling system that my case came with and added a lot more.

I would like to think you guys for setting me on the right path.

To every one elss reading this make sure you take you time at least 3 weeks to search for every bite of info out there for what you want to do. I you don't it will cost you money in the end.
a b K Overclocking
May 30, 2009 1:17:11 AM

^Lucky you. :D 
June 30, 2009 9:11:14 AM

Just throwing an odd question out there...has anyone tried a setup using three 3x120 rads next to each other making up a roughly 360 by 360 total rad area and then shackled one of the larger fans (36cm or maybe a 40cm) onto that contraption? I'm not really sure where I'm going with this but for light duty wc'ing it would seem to lower the necessary fan speeds and for heavy OC'ing I would think it would be able to off load a lot more heat. Am I right or wrong about this? Is this even possible? or, better yet, does anyone know where I might get a rad for any of the larger fan sizes? I've tried looking at non-wc'ing rads (car rads and the like) but finding one that's anywhere near the right size that has the right size tubing is pretty much impossible.
a c 328 K Overclocking
June 30, 2009 2:15:37 PM

Those larger fans don't really have the power to push air through most rads...they might move a decent amount of air in an open setting (like a case) but pushing through a rad...I doubt it.

They do make a 3x3 (9x120) rad.
a c 86 K Overclocking
June 30, 2009 3:19:33 PM

yep, the large fans you see on PC cases are very poor when it comes to flow restriction, like a radiator.
!