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I want to buy a new motherboard, what should I get?

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August 30, 2008 12:52:23 PM

Hi everybody, I know i made a thread yesterday, and i got some answers, but, i didn't get much detail about it.

I am looking to buy a new motherboard, one that will run 3/4gb of RAM to the max on a 32bit (or 64 bit, i'm not sure yet) vista machine. It needs to have a soundcard that won't crackle profusely, at LEAST 1 PCI-E 2.0 (16x). It must also be able to hold my Q6600 quad core @ 2.4ghz.

my current mobo has an FBS of 266mhz, so, when i try to play with my ATi Radeon 4850, I still get very unstable FPS's that range from 20-60, even on low-end MMO's such as WoW. I know it's not the card, it can handle games very well indeed, and with the mobo at it's current speed, i've devised that that is the problem.
I don't want to do ANY overclocking, and preferably i need the mobo to fit a small case. Can you guys list some good mobo's to try, and why they'd work well :) 

Thanks kindly for you're time

More about : buy motherboard

a b V Motherboard
August 30, 2008 1:38:59 PM

If you want to go Vista, I suggest you go 64 bits so you can be sure all the memory you will put will be recognized.

If on a tight budget, I suggest you get a P35 board like Gigabyte EP35-DS3L, it has PCI-E 1.1 16x, but you won't have any performance loss with a 4850; it cost 85$ on NewEgg.

If you want something more "up-to-date", get a P45 board like Asus P5Q (standard: 130$ or Pro: 140$). It's basically the P35 chipset, but with PCI-E 2.0 support.
August 30, 2008 1:57:15 PM

or EP-45-DS3L would also be a great board
Related resources
August 30, 2008 3:39:07 PM

ok, also, what is the average front side bus speed now-a-days?
a b V Motherboard
August 30, 2008 5:52:40 PM

I'd like to point-out that MOST new processors use 1333MHz FSB, there is but a single CPU that uses 1600MHz FSB and it's the QX9770 (LGA771) and it costs ~1500$.

However, most the the 1333MHz FSB CPUs can easily be overclocked to 1600MHz FSB.
August 30, 2008 6:18:02 PM

Thanks guys for all these great replies. Finally, does it sound to you like the problem deff is the motherboard? The 4850 is a good card, i know that, so how can it be anything else (the processor's good) and i got 3gb of RAM. That also might be part of the problem. The RAM is a 2gb stick next to a 1gb stick, which i hear causes problems? so that coupled with my mobo at the moment is causing my FPS instability? If I replace the RAM with 2 2gb of good quality RAM, and a 1333MHz mobo, it'll work as it is meant to?

Also, finally, how big are those boards? I might have to by a new case, can you suggest a good one? :) 
a b V Motherboard
August 30, 2008 6:22:14 PM

^Could be your PSU too.
August 30, 2008 6:33:08 PM

^+1 for checking the psu...
August 30, 2008 7:00:48 PM

psu is absolutely fine, it's a 650w supply
a b V Motherboard
August 30, 2008 7:29:53 PM

With a 2 Gig stick and a 1 Gig stick you are running single channel, not daul channel. Not sure how much performance hit, but definently some hit to performance.

Check your 12v rails: Run HWmonitor, Note nominal voltages then run ATI tools 3 D view and note the Nominal/Min/Max voltages for the 12V rail (Can also look @ the 5 V rail).

Also verify temps are not hitting upper levels.
August 30, 2008 8:10:12 PM

mini-bump :p  Sorry, read up 3 posts :) 
August 30, 2008 8:11:23 PM

sorry, didn't see that reply, my refresh didn't show it :S

Look, please trust me :)  This PSU is new, and suggested from overclockers UK, what i want to know is if it is my motherboard running at such a low FSB speed?
a b V Motherboard
August 30, 2008 8:27:27 PM

Your Bus Freq is 266 which equals a FSB of 1066. Your Proc , when loaded, is @ 9 x Bus Freq (266) = 2.4 Gigs

This is for a stock Q6600, and can be checked using CPUZ.

You can also check your memory - with unmatched pair it should be the slower Single channel Vs the desired daul channel mode.

Note Even the best of PS's have there "Problem childs" and it is a good idea to know the voltages for idle/load, and to periodically check them. You can save some grief as you may be able to spot a deteriorating PS before it fails and wipes out other components.

Did I miss where you verified Load temps for both CPU and GPU.
August 30, 2008 8:49:25 PM

Ok, Here are the temps of the stuff in my pc:
my cores are all at about 35-40°C
Processor 27°C
mainboard 40°C
Power/Aux Temp 25°C
GPU 57.5°C

Is that what you needed/ also, how do i check the voltage thing? To diagnose all that i used "PC wizard 2008". Thanks :) 
August 30, 2008 8:52:43 PM

Also, i think that the mobo may be damaged. Just a hunch. when i bought the PC from PC world, it was a Q6600 quad core, 3GB of Ram, 2 HD's and an 8600GS, running on ONLY 250watts. I know, it sounds unbelievable, i was also VERY shocked, so it's possible that that supply damaged the board? Just an idea. Also, i've had problems with the thing before, sound going totally messed up and having to restart to recieve sound.
August 30, 2008 10:01:17 PM

bump, sorry
a b V Motherboard
August 30, 2008 10:16:00 PM

You could be right.

Temps look good, again I would check them under load and look at all four core temps. Here you can monitor the 4 cores while running Prime 95 to load the proc.

Your probably correct about your PS, But good idea to verify. You can download (just google) CPUID HWmonitor. I use ATI tools (again free download) for loading the GPU. Just install and run "Show 3D view" Lower left of Box.
August 30, 2008 10:50:21 PM

Sorry, I'm a bit of a nub with PC's. I've got the CPUID thing, but what do i do with it, and also, what do i do with ATI tools? thanks for your help thus far, btw :D 
a b V Motherboard
August 30, 2008 11:06:47 PM

hethkor said:
psu is absolutely fine, it's a 650w supply

WRONG! The # of Watts has nothing to do with PSU quality.
August 30, 2008 11:11:25 PM

shadow, that's not what I meant. What I meant is that it's ample enough to power everything without damaging my kit (Unless it's faulty), unlike my 250w supply, which i think **** some stuff up. Anyway "Retired Chief" read the post 1 above this one :) 
a b V Motherboard
August 30, 2008 11:13:46 PM

Here's a screen shot of my System with CPUID
Just download and run, Don't believe it installs.



And here's ATI tools. Just download and install, then run
a b V Motherboard
August 30, 2008 11:19:06 PM

Note, my system is hotter than normal. GPU has been running with low fan speed (27%) normmally my idle gpu is approx 50C. E6400 is over clocked to 3.2 and normally idles @ 38 C, but room temp is warmer than normal and my case is not the best. Have a new cool master 640 (came 2 days ago). Debating whether to swap cases, or just save for my next build.
August 30, 2008 11:19:32 PM

ok, got both, what should i do now? list temps or?
August 30, 2008 11:21:42 PM

Scratch that, ATItool isn't working, everytime i start it, it closes, BUT i do have the catalyst control centre, which looks almost exactly the same
August 30, 2008 11:30:36 PM

so, what do i do? Shall i do a "World in conflict" benchmark with CPUid running, and see what the max's come out as?
August 30, 2008 11:48:30 PM

ok, just did a WiC graphics benchmark with everything on Very high. maz fps was 40, lowest 10, and avg. 20. (Which is not right at all).
Here are the stats from CPUID:
VOLTAGES:
VALUE MIN MAX
CPU Vcore: 1.18 / 1.15 / 1.25
vin1 2.03 / 2.03 / 2.03
+3.3v 3.26 / 3.25 3.26
+5v 4.84 / 4.84 / 4.87
+12v 11.97 / 11. 78 / 11.97
-12v -3.07 / -3.14 / -3.07
-5v -7.17 / -7.17 / -7.17
+5VCHH 5.00 / 5.00 / 5.03
VBAT 3.20 / 3.20 / 3.20

TEMPERATURES:
TMPIN0 29 / 23 / 27
TMPIN1 40 / 39 / 43
TMPIN2 25 / 25 / 25

FANS

FANIN0 1439 / 1430 / 1445

INTEL CORE 2 QUAD Q6600: Temperatures:
Core 0 40 / 38 / 41
Core 3 35 / 37 / 47
Core 1 39 37 / 50
Core 2 37 / 34 / 46

ATI RADEON 4800 SERIES...

TEMPERATURES:
GPU CORE 56 / 55 / 68

ST3360320AS
TEMPERATURES
HDD 42 / 39 / 43

Voila, hope it helps




a b V Motherboard
August 31, 2008 12:35:10 AM

Voltages and temps looked OK ( the -12V and -5 V are invalid values). Temps look ok. Leads me to think it might be a driver issue, or memory problem.

One other thing to verify is that you are not having a memory issue. Try running ortho prime 95 to check CPU/Memory. Another option is to download Memtest86 iso and make a bootable CD. Boot to CD and run Memtest overnight.

Note: you can run CPUZ for info on your memory. I use orthos for a daul core. For a quad I think you have to run two instanses and set one to core 0 & 1, the other set to core 2 & 3 ( 1&2, 3 &4). Might need to read up on that on the orthoes web sight.
August 31, 2008 10:08:56 AM

Are you sure it just couldn't be the motherboard, because that seems to be what everyone else thinks :S
August 31, 2008 10:12:10 AM

P.S what do i have to do with prime 95 or otho or CPUZ? Run it, i know, but what do i write down? what am i looking for?
August 31, 2008 10:38:56 AM

This is my info on my RAM, taken from CPUZ

General Information :
A0 : Empty
A1 (RAS 2) : 1024 (Single Bank)

Information SPD EEPROM (A0) :
Manufacturer : Micron Technology
Part Number : 16HTF25664AY-667E1
Serial Number : DC1B2625
Type : DDR2-SDRAM PC2-5300 (333 MHz) - [DDR2-666]
Format : Regular UDIMM (133.35 x 3)
Size : 2048 MB (2 ranks, 8 banks)
Module Buffered : No
Module Registered : No
Module SLi Ready (EPP) : No
Width : 64-bit
Error Correction Capability : No
Max. Burst Length : 8
Refresh : Reduced (.5x)7.8 µs, Self Refresh
Voltage : SSTL 1.8v
Prefetch Buffer : 4-bit
Manufacture : Week 44 of 2007
Supported Frequencies : 200 MHz, 266 MHz, 333 MHz
CAS Latency (tCL) : 3 clocks @200 MHz, 4 clocks @266 MHz, 5 clocks @333 MHz
RAS to CAS (tRCD) : 3 clocks @200 MHz, 4 clocks @266 MHz, 5 clocks @333 MHz
RAS Precharge (tRP) : 3 clocks @200 MHz, 4 clocks @266 MHz, 5 clocks @333 MHz
Cycle Time (tRAS) : 9 clocks @200 MHz, 12 clocks @266 MHz, 15 clocks @333 MHz
Min TRC : 12 clocks @200 MHz, 16 clocks @266 MHz, 20 clocks @333 MHz

Information SPD EEPROM (A1) :
Manufacturer : Micron Technology
Part Number : 8HTF12864AY-667E1
Serial Number : DE0DE8A6
Type : DDR2-SDRAM PC2-5300 (333 MHz) - [DDR2-666]
Format : Regular UDIMM (133.35 x 3)
Size : 1024 MB (1 ranks, 8 banks)
Module Buffered : No
Module Registered : No
Module SLi Ready (EPP) : No
Width : 64-bit
Error Correction Capability : No
Max. Burst Length : 8
Refresh : Reduced (.5x)7.8 µs, Self Refresh
Voltage : SSTL 1.8v
Prefetch Buffer : 4-bit
Manufacture : Week 44 of 2007
Supported Frequencies : 200 MHz, 266 MHz, 333 MHz
CAS Latency (tCL) : 3 clocks @200 MHz, 4 clocks @266 MHz, 5 clocks @333 MHz
RAS to CAS (tRCD) : 3 clocks @200 MHz, 4 clocks @266 MHz, 5 clocks @333 MHz
RAS Precharge (tRP) : 3 clocks @200 MHz, 4 clocks @266 MHz, 5 clocks @333 MHz
Cycle Time (tRAS) : 9 clocks @200 MHz, 12 clocks @266 MHz, 15 clocks @333 MHz
Min TRC : 12 clocks @200 MHz, 16 clocks @266 MHz, 20 clocks @333 MHz

Memory Controller Information :
Memory Controller : Standard, EDO
Number of connectors : 2
Supported Speed : 70ns, 60ns
Supported Voltages : 5v
Error Detection Method : No
Error Correction Capability : None
Current/Supported Interleave : 4-way/1-way
a b V Motherboard
August 31, 2008 2:59:54 PM

Altho I can not rule out the MB, There is a good possibility that you may simply have a driver problem/conflict, or a memory problem.

Correct me if I'm wrong: You have problems running games (ie Low frame Rates), But non intense Graphics, ie word processor/ IE use are OK.
You could not Load/run ATI Tools.

First, I would reload GPU drivers. Must remove first and run a driver cleanner (I think CCC - crap cleaner). Then reinstall latest version.

On Memory - Daul channel is preferred (Not sure of performance diff between single vs daul - Theorital 2X). In CPUIZ this under "Memory" tab and box labeled channel #.
It is generally excepted that the best method is two use TWO IDentical memory modules (Ie bought as a pair). If you can buy a matching pair to your 2 Gig stick. NOTE, you should do this even if you get another MB down stream.

As far as running Prime 95, Im not much help as I run Orthos which works fine for C2D's (Unless they have updated)

Try doing a search on Prime95, or orthos in tom's forum under the memory section.

Sorry I've not been more help. Have too leave for now, will check back later. Hopefully some one else will chimn in
August 31, 2008 4:49:18 PM

Okey, here's the deal:

World of Warcraft in places where there are lots of people, my FPS can range from 20-40. Outside, it can hit 70 and higher, BUT this is the same as my old graphics card, the 8600gs, which certainly is not right. Correct, games have bad FPS' when they should certianly get higher. IE and Word run just fine, as always.

I didn't actually delete the last driver, for my GEforce, could this be the problem? and where can i get one of those driver cleaners? a link would be great. And yes, I am going to buy 2 sticks 2 of 2gb RAM at the fastest speed.

So yeh, if anyone can come up with more ideas, or some links. It'd be great, please read the story above :)  I know it's complicated :D 
August 31, 2008 5:04:21 PM

driver uninstalled from control panel, no differance. Please some1 help, this is really getting me down :( 
August 31, 2008 5:18:33 PM

btw, about the last post, i didn't try with a driver cleaner to uninstall my new driver AND my old ones... If some1 has a driver cleaner, PLEASE reccomend it to me :S
a b V Motherboard
August 31, 2008 5:40:10 PM

Try DriverCleaner :p . Just boot in safe mode to use.
August 31, 2008 5:45:23 PM

Drivercleaner I have to pay for, and i have no cards atm :S any others? and how can i use it :) 
a b V Motherboard
August 31, 2008 6:07:09 PM

Get the version on Guru3D (the link I posted), not the one on drivercleaner.net; the paying version is DiverCleaner.NET, not DriverCleaner Pro.
a b V Motherboard
August 31, 2008 6:24:41 PM

Back from Pool

Zenthar gave good advice.
Here's Registry cleaner from PC tools
http://www.pctools.com/registry-mechanic/?ref=google_10...

Haven't used. (I normally use ATI's as I have always used ATI Graphics cards.

Don't forget may still have problem with Memory. Running stock on 266 Bus freq does not Require high end memory. Running memory on 266 only requires DDR2 - 533 for a 1 to 1 ratio (You said you were not planning on OC). But I would recommend DDR2 800 ( I'm using this w/ E6400 OCed to 3.2 GHz, Bus freq of 400 for a FSB of 1600 and 1::1 ratio)

Off to the stor - Good luck

PS I still don't think your MB is defective.
August 31, 2008 6:41:23 PM

Okey, so, what's my "plan of attack" so to speak? Change my RAM to something more decent and pray it goes away or? And how do i make sure there are no driver conflicts?
August 31, 2008 6:55:25 PM

Just used that registry thing. 274 problems found, only 14 were fixed, the others were "restricted" -.- Any ideas?
a b V Motherboard
August 31, 2008 8:34:50 PM

First I would verify no memory errors. Remove The one gig stick. Make an Bootable CD with Memtest86 (link included). Download ver 3.3 ISO image (Zip). Look on ther web page for instruction (Basicly unzip, create a ISO iamage CD)
http://www.memtest86.com/download.html

Alternative is Ulitmate Boot disk, which has memtest 86, plus other programs.

Boot to CD ( Go into Bios and tell first boot device = CD/DVD ) Run over night. If NO Errors, Then

I would w
Wipe HDD, reinstall Operating system / drivers /programs. DON'T forget to back up any personal files.
August 31, 2008 8:48:14 PM

My PC came with no OS disk at all.
August 31, 2008 8:48:50 PM

Also, I'm not happy screwing around with my PC like that. I've got a tech guy coming round tommorow, so I'll report back here with my findings :) 
August 31, 2008 9:05:03 PM

Oh also, final question. If i were to replace my RAM with some DDR3 high speed stuff (4gb worth, as a pair), would it sort out these "memory issues"?
a b V Motherboard
August 31, 2008 9:40:54 PM

DDR3 is a waste of money unless you plan on upgrading to Nehalem (Intels next generation) which is coming out the end of this year/begining of 09 (And will initially be expensive for MB/Processer % DDR3!!!).
This will require a new motherboard (X58). and will not run the current daul/quads. Your current MB will not run DDR3 UNLESS it is set to run Both DDR2/DDR3, so you will need a new MB

For the current quads, unless you over clock, DDR2 800 is the best bang for the bucks. DDR2- 800 (6400) is good upto a Bus Freq of 400. If the CPU has a multiplier of 9, thate equals a CPU speed of 3.6 Gigs. That would be an OVER Clock (a little high for a Q6600) which you said your not interest in.

Please review the MANY post on DDR3 verses DDR2. Also check the reviews on DDR3 Vs DDR2- In both cases you will come to the conclussion - DDR3 is not worth the High cost with no better performance than DDR2 - UNLESS you are a high end overclocker!

Hope your friend can help. At Some oint you will need to get an Operating systems disk!
August 31, 2008 9:50:35 PM

Ok, forget the DDR3, BUT, i think i've had a breakthrough. And dare i say it, you were right :p 

I was on Conan, graphics playing happily at roughly 40 FPS on very high, then, BANG, ERROR!! Well, it said there was a problem with this:
d:\dev-env\build\branch_live\code\fccore\fcmemmngr\MemoryManager.Win32.cpp (61)
Which looks like a memory problem. Any thoughts?
August 31, 2008 10:02:35 PM

Sorry, i didn't give details, said it "ran out of memory" hope that helps.
September 1, 2008 9:59:26 AM

Anyone? Anyone at all? Does this sound like a memory issue?
a b V Motherboard
September 1, 2008 2:11:26 PM

hethkor said:
shadow, that's not what I meant. What I meant is that it's ample enough to power everything without damaging my kit (Unless it's faulty), unlike my 250w supply, which i think **** some stuff up. Anyway "Retired Chief" read the post 1 above this one :) 

That's not my point. My point is your PSU quality could be low. For example a RaidMax 650W is NOT better than a Corsair 550VX or even a 450VX.
September 1, 2008 3:07:29 PM

Of course, i understand that totally, but since running all these tests, it shows my PSU is not the thing with the problem. What I need to know is more about memory checking issues.
!