Have some questions ; Suggestions?

After reading several of the overclocking threads, while also looking at several of the threads here, I answered a bunch of my own questions. However, I'm still slightly confused on RAM clocking and how it pertains or effects overclocking. I'm not so much looking for the minute details, but more looking at how buying 800, 1066, 1200, or 1333 mhz may effect my performance and certainly the cost/performance ratio. Here is the build I had put together and am considering on my budget of $1000-1200. Id like to get a monitor and OS with this, but I do have an old Dell flatscreen and XP 32 bit available if necessary!

CPU: C2D E8400 Wolfdale 3.0 ghz
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6819115037
(I went with a Dual core instead of a quad core because I don't do anything too extensive on my computer. I play some games, check my email and do word documents. Usually not all at the same time. Also, quad cores seem to be a large headache with the new games like AOC?)

PSU: PCP&C 610w
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6817703005

Case: Antec 900
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6811129021
(I really don't care about the "curb appeal" of my case. I selected this case because I've heard its very easy to work with and has great ventilation. This will be my first build, so easy to work with is a huge plus! But if there is a cheaper case that is equal or better, please let me know!)

HDD: Seagate Barracuda 500gb, 7200rmp, 32mb cache, 3.0gb/s
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6822148288

Optical Drive: Samsung DVD RW (pretty standard?)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6827151155

Thermal Paste: Is there a major difference in these 2?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6835186020 MX-2
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6835100007 Arctic Silver 5

Now, for the questionable items:

Mobo: Asus P35 P5K EPU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6813131277

RAM: OCZ Reaper
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820227289

Video Card: EVGA 8800 GT
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6814130359
(I think I'm going to wait to see how the price war plays out with Nvidia and ATI over the next few weeks. I noticed Nvidia dropped their 9800 to $199 to compete with the 4850's, but I'm thinking its going to go much lower then this. I don't want to take a 2nd mortgage out for a new video card. I'd just like to be able to play the latest games with a few bells and whistles on! I play mostly MMO's (WoW, AoC, WAR) and RTS, not much into the FPS type games)

Monitors: I'd be open to suggestions. I looked into these buy I didn't have a clue what all the 2500:1, 700:1 etc meant. I tried to research it, but was pretty unsuccessful.

OS: Is Vista 64 supported enough to switch to it? I'm currently happy with XP, but realize the future is in 64 bit OS. Do you think its ready for an average computer user to make the switch? Drivers readily available and supported?

I didn't include an after market heat sink because I wasn't interested in OCing the entire system at this point. However, I'd like to be able to do it later on as a mini upgrade. Thats why I was concerned with how the RAM clocking / timing really worked while OCing. After reading many of the posts on these boards, it sounds like a P45 board may be the way to go? And is it worth the extra money to get a 1600/1333 or 1333/1066 mother board? How about 1200 or 1066 RAM?

Also, if you have any first timer tips, they'd be greatly appreciated. I've been reading a whole bunch on it to make sure I don't fry my first build and waste money, but there is almost always something a rookie will miss!

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1:1 is the best ratio to run your FSB:RAM at and in order to do that with a E8400 all you need is DDR2 667. If you plan on overclocking then you will want to consider faster RAM and the reason for this is that it allows you more headroom while increasing the FSB before you have to worry about overclocking the RAM as well which could lead to instability.

1:1 with a FSB of 1600 will give you a CPU speed of 3.6ghz and your RAM at DDR2 800. DDR2 800 is cheap and overclocks fairly well to achieve 1:1 with a higher FSB. Keep in mind though that DDR2 800 is the fastest official speed for DDR2 and anything sold higher is sold at it's overclocked speed. In fact a lot of RAM sold as DDR2 800 is sold at it's overclocked speed. The things you should look for when buying RAM are timings and voltage. 1.8v is the standard for DDR2 and anything sold higher than that is sold at it's overclocked speed so your looking for good timings and as close to 1.8v as you can find.

Message quoted 1 times

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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
-Aristotle
Reply to ausch30

As for Monitors I believe what your talking about is the contrast ratio. The contrast ratio is the distance from the whitest white to the darkest black that the screen is capable of, the higher the better.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrast_ratio
Another thing to read before deciding on an LCD monitor
http://www.pchardwarehelp.com/guid [...] -types.php
It will take some research to find what panel a monitor uses, I used to have a link to a site where you type in the model and it tells you the panel but I can't find it.

As for your OS I would say to go with Vista but look at the peripherals your going to use with your new system such as a printer and see if they all have drivers available before you decide. I would say go with the 32bit Home Premium but the 64bit support has gotten very good and it's a good choice as well.

As for overclocking it's always a good idea to replace the stock HSF even if your not planning to overclock but the E8400 runs very cool and can be overclocked to 3.6 with the stock cooling solution so it's not something that you absolutely have to worry about now.

The Antec 900 is a good case but I like the Cooler Master RC-690 a little more, the choice is yours
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6811119137

Message edited by ausch30 on 06-20-2008 at 08:43:57 AM

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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
-Aristotle
Reply to ausch30

ausch30 wrote :

1:1 is the best ratio to run your FSB:RAM at and in order to do that with a E8400 all you need is DDR2 667. If you plan on overclocking then you will want to consider faster RAM and the reason for this is that it allows you more headroom while increasing the FSB before you have to worry about overclocking the RAM as well which could lead to instability.

1:1 with a FSB of 1600 will give you a CPU speed of 3.6ghz and your RAM at DDR2 800. DDR2 800 is cheap and overclocks fairly well to achieve 1:1 with a higher FSB. Keep in mind though that DDR2 800 is the fastest official speed for DDR2 and anything sold higher is sold at it's overclocked speed. In fact a lot of RAM sold as DDR2 800 is sold at it's overclocked speed. The things you should look for when buying RAM are timings and voltage. 1.8v is the standard for DDR2 and anything sold higher than that is sold at it's overclocked speed so your looking for good timings and as close to 1.8v as you can find.

Ok, that is definitely good to know. I was trying to go out of my way to get a mobo that supported 1066 RAM and 1066 RAM itself. It appears I won't need to do that at all. Now, you stated I want to be as close to 1.8v as possible, but what about the timings and CAS Latency. If I understand correctly, lower is better?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820146731
Mushkin RAM with 5-4-4-12, 1.8v, and CAS Latency 5.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820227284
OCZ Reaper with 5-5-5-18, 1.8v, and CAS Latency 5.

Similar in price and specs except for timing. Would one be particularly better then the other? From what I can tell, the brands of RAM you want to look at are Corsair, Crucial, Kingston, G.skill (??), OCZ, and Mushkin (??). Is that correct?

Mobo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6813131299
Asus P45 P5Q Pro ($149.99) - Does it matter that its memory standard is DDR2 1200? Will that effect using DDR2 800 in a negative/positive way?

Also, is there any real reason to get 8 gb of RAM right now? I was reading up on it and could only find people who were having problems with it being recognized or working in their Mobos. Now, I realize most people on tech forums post for problems and not success, but is it something I should consider? Especially with the above listed RAM at sub-$70 for 4 gb?

Message quoted 2 times

Reply to Alterreality

Take a look at those mobo's. They are the new upgrades from the P35 boards. There is no bios to flash with these...they are the P35's with all the bugs worked out. Not only that, but they overclock much better than the P35's, and they are in the same price range as the board you are thinking of getting. Also they have much better northbride cooling, so there's less chance of your mobo frying.

That case not only has more room to work with than the Antec, but it has much better airflow. That heatsink is a good one, and at that price it's a steal not to mention the rebate that comes with it. Just make sure if you decide to get it, to get that bolt up kit also. It makes it 100x's easier to put on, and it helps get a tighter fit (more pressure) when you add that heatsink.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] +P43%2fP45 <----New P43 & P45 motherboards.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6811119137 $84.99
COOLER MASTER RC-690-KKN1-GP Black SECC/ ABS ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6835233001 $24.99 ($14.99 after $10.00 Mail-In Rebate)
XIGMATEK HDT-S963 92mm Rifle CPU Cooler - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6835233019 $6.99
XIGMATEK ACK-I7751 Retention Bracket - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 0&Tpk=mx-2 $6.99
ARCTIC COOLING MX-2 Thermal Compound - Retail

Message edited by Why_Me on 06-20-2008 at 08:43:47 AM

------------------------------ "God invented Google so you would stop asking stupid questions."
Reply to Why_Me

Alterreality wrote :

Ok, that is definitely good to know. I was trying to go out of my way to get a mobo that supported 1066 RAM and 1066 RAM itself. It appears I won't need to do that at all. Now, you stated I want to be as close to 1.8v as possible, but what about the timings and CAS Latency. If I understand correctly, lower is better?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820146731
Mushkin RAM with 5-4-4-12, 1.8v, and CAS Latency 5.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820227284
OCZ Reaper with 5-5-5-18, 1.8v, and CAS Latency 5.

Similar in price and specs except for timing. Would one be particularly better then the other? From what I can tell, the brands of RAM you want to look at are Corsair, Crucial, Kingston, G.skill (??), OCZ, and Mushkin (??). Is that correct?

Mobo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6813131299
Asus P45 P5Q Pro ($149.99) - Does it matter that its memory standard is DDR2 1200? Will that effect using DDR2 800 in a negative/positive way?

Also, is there any real reason to get 8 gb of RAM right now? I was reading up on it and could only find people who were having problems with it being recognized or working in their Mobos. Now, I realize most people on tech forums post for problems and not success, but is it something I should consider? Especially with the above listed RAM at sub-$70 for 4 gb?

That mushkin is nice nice nice ram! It's micron D9 chips, and you can overclock them until the sun rises. Not only that, but it's a rare day you ever get a bad stick of that memory. That mobo is a Cadilac...especially if you ever decide to go with Crossfire (dual ATI cards) which btw are on sale right now.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6814121253

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] =10&page=1 <---Combo deal with that vid card, and that P45 Q Pro Asus board you are looking at. It's a steal.

Message quoted 1 times

------------------------------ "God invented Google so you would stop asking stupid questions."
Reply to Why_Me

Alterreality wrote :

Ok, that is definitely good to know. I was trying to go out of my way to get a mobo that supported 1066 RAM and 1066 RAM itself. It appears I won't need to do that at all. Now, you stated I want to be as close to 1.8v as possible, but what about the timings and CAS Latency. If I understand correctly, lower is better?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820146731
Mushkin RAM with 5-4-4-12, 1.8v, and CAS Latency 5.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820227284
OCZ Reaper with 5-5-5-18, 1.8v, and CAS Latency 5.

Similar in price and specs except for timing. Would one be particularly better then the other? From what I can tell, the brands of RAM you want to look at are Corsair, Crucial, Kingston, G.skill (??), OCZ, and Mushkin (??). Is that correct?

Mobo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6813131299
Asus P45 P5Q Pro ($149.99) - Does it matter that its memory standard is DDR2 1200? Will that effect using DDR2 800 in a negative/positive way?

Also, is there any real reason to get 8 gb of RAM right now? I was reading up on it and could only find people who were having problems with it being recognized or working in their Mobos. Now, I realize most people on tech forums post for problems and not success, but is it something I should consider? Especially with the above listed RAM at sub-$70 for 4 gb?

My last 2 sets of RAM have both been Mushkin and I would highly recommend them but yes those are both good sets of RAM and yes those are all good manufacturers.

The speeds for DDR2 are 400, 533, 667 and 800 so anything that claims to support DDR2 has to work at one of those speeds. The reason they list the DDR2 1200 is just a marketing thing to make you think that it's better than the boards that only support 1066.

I would go with 2x2gb of RAM and if at some point you want more you have that option.

I might think twice about the Hard Drive. I have 2 7200.11 500gb drives in my system now and I love them. They are fast and quiet and I usually would recommend them but it seems as if there are a lot of people getting DOA's or drives that die after a short time and I'm starting to believe that I got lucky. The last 7 or 8 hard drives I've bought have been Seagate and I haven't had a problem but some of the more recent complaints have got me wondering about their quality control.

Message edited by ausch30 on 06-20-2008 at 08:58:44 AM

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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
-Aristotle
Reply to ausch30

Why_Me wrote :

That mushkin is nice nice nice ram! It's micron D9 chips, and you can overclock them until the sun rises. Not only that, but it's a rare day you ever get a bad stick of that memory. That mobo is a Cadilac...especially if you ever decide to go with Crossfire (dual ATI cards) which btw are on sale right now.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6814121253

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] =10&page=1 <---Combo deal with that vid card, and that P45 Q Pro Asus board you are looking at. It's a steal.

Not all the Mushkin HP2-6400 are D9 but most are and Mushkin has changed it's company policy on disclosing which chips are used in it's memory (they no longer do) but I agree that at a price/performance level those are hard to beat.

Links to find which chips are used in memory
http://ramlist.ath.cx/ddr2/
http://ramlist.ath.cx/micron/
http://www.overclock.net/amd-memor [...] chips.html

Message edited by ausch30 on 06-20-2008 at 09:20:36 AM

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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
-Aristotle
Reply to ausch30

Want to thank you 2 for the help and all the help that the various threads around these forums have been. I'm definitely more confident about my first build after having read several of these threads. I just have a few final questions before I order and assemble:

Here are the things that I plan on ordering:
C2D e8400 Wolfdale 3.0 ghz (probably going to do the simple OC to 3.6 ghz)
Asus P5Q Pro
Mushkin 4gb (2x2) PC6400 Ram
Samsung F1 Spinpoint 500gb
ATI 4850
Xigmatek HDT-S963 (Retention bracket is on back order on Newegg. Really sucks!)
MX-2 Thermal Paste

Now, currently I was looking at the PCP&C 610w PSU, but the Corsair 750w is only 20 bucks more. If I want to OC more in the future and add another 4850, will the PCP&C be sufficient or should I just get the Corsair now to prepare for another video card and/or more RAM in the future?

Xigmatek Retention Bracket - It really sucks that these are "sold out". I plan on ordering the computer on Monday. Will it hurt if I use the stock heat sink for a few days / weeks until I can get retention bracket? (I wouldn't OC to 3.6 ghz until I put the Xigmatek on)

Hard Drive - Since HDD's are all pretty similar in price, is there a particular brand you'd lean towards? WD, Samsung and Seagate seem to be the most popular. Are any of those good bets or is there a need to avoid one?

Also, since this is my first build, are there any special tools or things I should buy before the parts arrive? I have several sizes of screw drivers and the general carpenter tools available. Anything else I may realize is a "must have" which may not be laying around the house?

Message edited by Alterreality on 06-21-2008 at 11:24:37 PM

Reply to Alterreality

The 610 should be fine but if your concerned and just want to make sure you have the power to deal with upgrades then go with the 750. Another 750 you might want to consider
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6817341011

The stock cooler will be fine until the retention bracket comes in but if I'm not mistaken the motherboard has to be out of the case to install it so you would have to remove everything when you get it.

I have 3 500gb Seagates in my system now. In fact the last 7 hard drives I've bought have all been Seagate and all have been great. That being said I've noticed a large number of DOA's and died after a week on Newegg and it makes me wonder if their quality control has slipped. I would go with either a Seagate or a Western Digital. They are the top two brands and both have a much better history than most other brands. I like Seagate because of the 5yr warranty.

Really all you need is a phillips head and most likely a flashlight.

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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
-Aristotle
Reply to ausch30

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