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THE PC vs. CONSOLE WAR: PC's are LOSING.

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August 8, 2008 3:55:01 PM

These days there something that worries me a great deal. The articles I read on various websites about how PC gaming is slowly dying. Or how when I walk into a Best Buy, or EB Games, or any other electronic outlet there is a huge decrease in available options for purchase when it comes to software and PC accessories.

First off let me explain something: YOU might be asking yourself right now why would I post this topic under the components section of the forums, and the answer is simple.

Because most of us in here are enthusiasts who use our systems for gaming and overclocking, the components section is where many of us come to find answers to questions or help others out who are having issues. ALSO since most of the components we buy are for gaming or high performance use I figured this area would be the best place to post my topic, since the situation I'm writing about will most likely affect us all.

So I will get right into it then. Have any of you realized the lack of support for PC products as I have? It seems everywhere I go now the PC sections are getting smaller and smaller. When I walk into EB games or other similar shops they tell me now that they are phasing out PC games and that their entire PC inventory is on sale for discounted prices. I go to Wal-Mart and what used to be a two section isle has been converted into a 5 ft long shelf with 15-20 titles to choose from( unfortunately all priced wrong, and with the wrong stickers attached to the shelving units as is Wal-Mart’s standard operating procedure). I go to Target and find what used to be a sizeable selection of recent PC software and gaming titles reduced to almost nothing but again a 5 foot long shelf.

I used to have one good standby, COMPUSA which always had an excellent selection of PC Software, now out-of -business. Circuit city used to be pretty good, they to are now removing their PC Software inventory and everything is currently being marked down, and the best part, they are on their way out the door too, trying to sell out.

So with all the vendors and retailers removing PC stock(including performance parts and hardware) from their shelves where does this leave all of us?? Sure you can say the internet!! But that doesn’t help you when even most of our larger sites our trimming down their offerings as well. And what about the excitement you get when you get to pick up the box look at the graphics and read the titles description. There is a tangible sense of value when you are holding the box in your hands. All of this leaves me with a huge sense of worry. I know this must be disheartening for software programmers and game design firms out there trying to make a living.

I honestly have been a PC gamer almost my entire life, I used to play the first Wolfenstein and Doom games when they were on little floppy disk's. I have been playing Blizzards' games since the first Warcraft, and Unreal since it's first version. Command and Conquer when it looked like little green squares driving around in the snow
( those were tanks) and Wing Commander too. The first Mech Warrior games. I have played them all. I also collect the boxes and keep all of my games in their original boxes. I currently have 80 mint condition game boxes. I never pirated any of the games I have played, and I think pirating sucks. I believe pirated software is the number one reason why PC gaming is going the way of the dinosaurs.

My biggest concern comes however from the hardware side of the matter, as Nvidia and ATi are at war with each other trying to build the greatest graphics cards known to man, and many of us are willingly buying them, and stacking our computers with 4+ GB of ram, and quad processors and extreme cooling systems all to be able to play the newest games at the most maxed out graphics options. Many of know that our PC's are often times 5-10 times faster than even the PS3. It's actual graphics solution is based off of the Nvidia 7800 series GPU. Take (2) GTX280's and you could easily be 10 X faster on any current game on the market compared to the PS3.

But what happens to all of us if PC gaming DIES?? All of our hard earned money and time spent configuring and building the best machines our money can buy will be wasted. Where will our hobby go? Where will the desire to make an awesome gaming system come from, ...it wont. That’s just it, if PC gaming dies, there are many other markets soon to follow. The graphics card market would crash for anything really above mid-level or entry level net surfing purpose GPU's and would revert back to integrated chips. High performance motherboard manufacturers would suffer, as would high end audio card makers. Many of the LCD manufacturers would see huge drops in revenue on anything larger than 1280X1024 screen sizes. Literally if PC gaming goes, the entire performance market would soon crash down as there would no longer be the demand from consumers for such high end components.

Recent articles involving the makers of Crysis, Titan's Quest, and now even John Carmack and ID software express they are switching their focus to consoles primarily because PC games just aren’t selling anymore. THE makers of Grand Theft Auto 4 and Mass Effect were within a hairs thickness of not releasing their games for PC this time around until the PC Enthusiasts spoke up. Console sales and gaming is wiping the floor with PC's and all the evidence supports this. But what about those of us who really dont like consoles, are we just a niche market now? I have a PS3 and honestly the only games I play are Need for Speed Carbon and Fight Night Round 3, I play PS2 games on my PS3 right now more than anything else in the PS3 library. Don't get me wrong I have 10 PS3 games, but problem is once you play through em thats it. They dont have the replay value that PC games have and dont require as much skill.

The point of my writing is to express grave concern for the PC gaming market, and to bring to light the fact that if you are "Pirating" software, you need to wake up and realize that you are killing your own favorite hobby. Many of us love our machines that we have worked for and built, and many of us use them everyday for gaming, internet, movies, and various other uses. But people if we cant bring the focus back to where it all began, (with PC's) then the Console vs. PC wars are lost, and so is our beloved past time that separates so many of us from the casual console gamer. Don't let it happen.

PAY for your games, respect the designers and programmers, who have devoted their lives to making you awesome entertainment, and start showing these development firms that the PC is still alive and kicking.

More about : console war losing

August 8, 2008 4:05:21 PM

Well said

+5

I really think the two biggest problems are:

#1 Most common bought pc's don't have the hardware to run newer games. You can't own a 600$ dell with intergrated graphics and expect to run a new game. We live in a age where most people buy pre-built systems for under 1000$. Only gamers and enthusiasts buy or build pc's with the hardware required for the latest and greatest games. With a console, you buy it, and its good to go for 2-5 years. Their is no upgrading or compatibility issues with console games. Until most pc's can run most new games out of the box, Pc gaming will be just a niche market.

#2 Piracy!!!!! It's sad when a game has more pirated copies floating around then physical/paid for copies. People always want something for nothing, and eventually, if this keeps up, we will have NOTHING.
August 8, 2008 4:07:53 PM

The reasoning is simple. Consoles release to a wider audience. Little Johnn down the street probably doesn't know how to install/run/tweak a PC game on his HP w/ onboard video. However his xbox 360 is ready to go out of the box when he buys a game! And many many more people have consoles than PC's capable of running newer games.

pretty much anyone can use a console gaming system. Not everyone has the hardware or know how to run PC games.

PC games aren't going anywhere I'm sure, but it will most likely not as popular as console gaming in the near future.

Also, as far as high end hardware in PC stores the reason there isn't a good selection is that those stores dont move that hardware very fast. Hardly anyone would buy a video card or sound card at a shop that charges 20%+ more than if they order it off of the internet. Same goes for software. That coupled with the popularity in consoles is killing retail hardware and software stores, but its mostly because of internet shopping and has less to do with the fact that consoles are getting more popular.
MMOs and most FPS/RTS games will always have a home on PCs for the most part. But expect to see that selection in your local best buy or circuit city dwindle more and more over time. I order all my games online anyway.

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August 8, 2008 4:21:34 PM

I would hate to see PC gaming go. That would be sad :( 
August 8, 2008 4:23:12 PM

Sorry but piracy is just a scapegoat some big name companies use to draw attention away from the inherent flaws with their "blockbuster" games.

Two titles are proof of this:
sins of a solar empire
The sims
August 8, 2008 4:32:52 PM

I would be a bitch and quote everything.

But i decide to leave my trolling skills aside for now. Abotu distribuition of PC games, i would look to Steam and for MMORPGs. Etailers are good place to look at.

Basically only EA and a few more are still trying to go the normal distribution chain. The rest evolved. Welcome !! About piracy you can join us in Games section witch has enormous discussion always rolling with excelent numbers,facts, loads of friction and RobWright just telling us to chill a bit.

Ill leave you with a phrase, a oxymoron but, truth none the less:

Piracy is the competition in a market of exclusives.




August 8, 2008 4:37:22 PM

Piracy is a real problem. It is not a scapegoat. When a game sells 1mil copies and 5mil copies have been pirated there is a problem. Are the pirated versions better? No.. they are free... Many people are cheap. They will spend 2,000 on a "Gaming" PC then not spend the 50$ on a game. It's quite pathetic. Game producers and such need to cover their costs and turn a profit. Would you stay in business if you were unable to turn a profit? No, I didn't think so. PC games and Games in general have ridiculous production costs, right up there with hollywood movies. If you want to be ignorant and think that piracy is not an issue, thats fine, but I for one don't like the feeling of sand in the eyes...Pull your head out...
August 8, 2008 4:48:46 PM

People can pirate console games as well if they have the knowledge needed.

There are even emulators for the Nintendo DS and GBA so people can simply download roms off the internet and play the games for free on the PC. With the DS you can buy an R4 and play pirated games right on the DS itself.

I guess that explains why the handheld market hasn't been profitable just like the PC market amirite?

August 8, 2008 5:00:09 PM

Yep. PC gaming is slowly dying, and being replaced by the console. Hell, at some point your home PC may be replaced by a console, as they are getting PC-Like functionality with web-browsing and other little programs.

Piracy is a problem, but no so much as that up until recently you could buy an entire PS3 for less than a good graphics card. And the PS3 was thought to be expensive. It's a lot cheaper than the 1-2 grand a year some people spend on their gaming rigs to keep up to date.

That's not a way to induce mass market appeal. Most homes have crappy computers with integrated graphics, and can't play the new titles. I'm glad AMD is going the route it's going.. with cheap GPU's, cheap motherboards with somewhat decent onboard GPU's, and soon ehough cheap CPU's with GPU's embedded. Robust entry level and cheap enthusiast platforms is the only way to save PC gaming.
August 8, 2008 5:01:33 PM

Lavacon said:
Piracy is a real problem. It is not a scapegoat. When a game sells 1mil copies and 5mil copies have been pirated there is a problem. Are the pirated versions better? No.. they are free... Many people are cheap. They will spend 2,000 on a "Gaming" PC then not spend the 50$ on a game. It's quite pathetic. Game producers and such need to cover their costs and turn a profit. Would you stay in business if you were unable to turn a profit? No, I didn't think so. PC games and Games in general have ridiculous production costs, right up there with hollywood movies. If you want to be ignorant and think that piracy is not an issue, thats fine, but I for one don't like the feeling of sand in the eyes...Pull your head out...

I'm sorry, but what you just said is the main reason I am convinced that piracy is no where near as dangerous as you and various companies say it is, because the figures you just used, were, to be frank, pulled out of your ass, you have NO IDEA how many people pirated the game instead of buying it, and so its fair enough (as far as statisticians are concerned) to assume that every copy of the game that didn't sell, was due to the person who would have bought it pirating it instead, and it doesn't seem to occur to people that its possible that there is a fundamental flaw with the GAME, and people aren't taken in by all the hype out there (hence why I don't think crysis would sell, even on the console). So to summarise, if you are able to accurately count the number of times its been pirated, i'll believe you, but until then, sod off and stop using it as a scapegoat so you can keep churning out rubbish games and then sueing people for not buying it. (I don't deny there will have been lost revenue, just not nearly as much as is claimed)
August 8, 2008 5:03:28 PM

i see two things that have to change in the pc gaming industry for it to succeed in the future.

Firstly, something needs to be done about piracy. Steam is a good example of what to do. If all games could work through steam, or some other similar system, piracy would shrink quickly. but i think for this to work there needs to be only one of these such systems, like having steam and nothing else.

Secondly, some effort needs to be made for the "average joe" to understand some of the more technical aspects of pc gaming. Go to a store and read the bottom of a pc game box. The requirements can be confusing. they often state: "minimum Pentium 4 2.6Ghz", and then they go and add something like "or athlon 64 3800+". to some people, this will make no sense at all, especially with the amd part. 3800+ isn't a clock speed, it's a model number. i swear i have actually seen games that say things like this. Game developpers also need to not list a minimum video card requirement by the amount of memory onboard. I have an old geforce 7600GT with 512MB of DDR2 memory, and it's light years behind my radeon HD 4850, also with 512MB of memory. AMD might be on to something with their AMD game! but it needs to be adopted by more game developpers and hardware manufacturers. Such a system IMO would clear up a fair bit of confusion.

To go with that last point, pc OEM's need to also make an effort to sell more capable low-end systems. Intel integrated graphics can't play any game made within the last 3 or so years. In a $600 computer you don't need to put in a super fancy video card, but at least something in the mid-range should be there. Even nvidia's new 9500GT might be a viable option. it's not amazing, but it sure as hell is faster than anything intel can come up with. At the same time, Intel needs to wake up and start making faster IGP's. AMD's 780-series motherboards have half-decent graphics chips built in. Some research is needed in this area to try and produce a more capable onboard solution.
August 8, 2008 5:13:56 PM

I did pull that number out of my ass. Very good, you got me. Sometime take a look at some popular bit torrent sites and see how many times a game has been downloaded. My numbers were more of a ratio then a exact figure. A lot of companies figure it about 5 pirated copies to 1 sold copy from what I have read. It could be more, or it can be less, but the fact is that games are being massively pirated. I looked around after I bought Crysis and I saw that on one bit torrent site that just one of the many pirated versions of crysis floating around had been downloaded over a million times.

If a product is bad or one does not like it, how does justify stealing it? This argument makes no sense. "The game sucked and was buggy, so i stole it" WTF is that? Should we all go out and start stealing new Pontiac cars because they suck? If you don't like something you don't have to subject yourself to it, its easy. Most PC games offer a FREE demo or Beta. If that sucks don't deal with it. It's simple. But to say "it sucks, so I stole it" is just plain ignorant.
August 8, 2008 5:24:19 PM

Ummm haven't we been told for the last 15 years that PC gaming was dying? Yet here it is.

You think its dying because you dont see as many games in stores? How about FilePlanet and Steam?

You're saying if gaming dies that the LCD market is going to stop producing 19" or greater LCD screens? Obviously you've never worked in an office. Hell everyone here is using at least 1440x900 monitors, several have dual 22" monitors setup.

You think memory, CPU, and mobo companies are going to die off because the smallest niche of their revenue will be gone? Please, AMD/nVidia make their money off cards that go in Dells, not enthusiast cards. Same goes for memory and mobo manufacturers.


As long as people are using PCs, they will be making games for them. As long as there are PCs and consoles, the consoles will win.

Please post this in the section it belongs and put a warning saying "Wall of text ahead" in the title.
Anonymous
August 8, 2008 5:26:53 PM

hey... tbh i tried pirating a game... not proud of it... but it didn't work... I downloaded like 5 different torrents of it... NONE OF THEM WORKED... so its not like all of the downloads are all working...
August 8, 2008 5:31:55 PM

Piracy exists but it has always been there. I don't think piracy can be attributed to what is happeneing now. Consoles are technically out of date hardware yet The PC market is where you buy a video card and in 6 months it is out of date, of course consoles will win in the end. Majority of people can't justify expensive hardware upgrades every 6 months to play a video game. They are releasing cards now that will allready be out of date in 6 months with DX11 yet the consoles will still win in 6 months from now no matter what. There is no way for PC's to catch up with the current "designed obsolete" cycle.
August 8, 2008 5:32:43 PM

In my own opinion, having watched, been involved with and been
an avid fan of pc games over the decades....I believe pc gaming
is going the same way Atari gaming did in the early 1980's....
Here are my reasons why:

1. Market saturation of too similar games. Same old categories....
2. Too many little 'diddly' title games that are fun but I mean really!
Like, gamehouse, popcap, bigfish....etc.....
3. Too many 'bugs' in the games from trying to rush em out the door.
There are generally no less than 4 or 5 patches with each game
already out before you even get the new title nowdays.
4. Virtually no 'new concept' gaming.
5. Piracy on scale that has never been seen in all pc game history.
6. Newer generation culture that finds it easier to use consoles
in our rush-rush world of 'no-time for anything...'.
7. Graphical interfaces on wireless technology (cell-phones, etc...)

Virtually every company that makes hardware, software, or games
will always go where the money's at...which is console and wireless.

Right..?
August 8, 2008 5:42:56 PM

I think the biggest issue facing the industry is hardware. Back in the good ole' days, if you could make a PC play games, you could make a PC. Now PC's are much, much simpler to use (and buy), but the education of the user hasn't gone up. (some would argue it's gone down).

It will never cease to amaze me, though. People pay money for the console, money for weird controller add ons, money for hi-definition TV's, money for internet that they already pay for anyway just to play games. All because it's simple. If anyone knew how easy it was to upgrade a graphics card...they could skip all that and play PC games for $200, with the PC they already have. Face it. Take any $600 desktop computer, add in a 4850, and it's a decent gaming machine. No fees to pay for every month, no controllers to buy.

But People use consoles because they're simple.
PC's just aren't.

at least...to the outsiders!
August 8, 2008 5:46:35 PM

sorce7200 said:
In my own opinion, having watched, been involved with and been
an avid fan of pc games over the decades....I believe pc gaming
is going the same way Atari gaming did in the early 1980's....
Here are my reasons why:

1. Market saturation of too similar games. Same old categories....
2. Too many little 'diddly' title games that are fun but I mean really!
Like, gamehouse, popcap, bigfish....etc.....
3. Too many 'bugs' in the games from trying to rush em out the door.
There are generally no less than 4 or 5 patches with each game
already out before you even get the new title nowdays.
4. Virtually no 'new concept' gaming.
5. Piracy on scale that has never been seen in all pc game history.
6. Newer generation culture that finds it easier to use consoles
in our rush-rush world of 'no-time for anything...'.
7. Graphical interfaces on wireless technology (cell-phones, etc...)

Virtually every company that makes hardware, software, or games
will always go where the money's at...which is console and wireless.

Right..?


Right!! :) 

While yes, piracy has been around since games themselves, but, it's on a much greater scale then ever. It's very easy to do on the PC. Download, unrar/zip, mount, install, patch, play.... It is much more time consuming to use a pirated console game. These publishers are going where they can make the money, as any sensible business would.
August 8, 2008 5:57:01 PM

I bought my first game on Steam last night. Yay for me and PC gaming.
August 8, 2008 5:57:12 PM

Hey Deuce271,

Since most of the comments you made have no merit at all and basically you just decided to log in and troll someone's topic,I have decided to respond to you, since you are the only one to write something negative so far, considering what I wrote was very direct and provided many points focusing on the subject I chose to write about, (and what you just skimmed over... apparently you think I wrote too much)and you obviously didn't have time to go back through and actually find exact words or statements by me to use against me at all.

Let me take you back to the major points:

You state that the graphics cards companies make most of their money on Oem manufacturers like Dell and Gateway. When did I argue this point??
I stated the performance pc market would crash, not standard crap found in Oem offerings. I'm talking about gaming systems, not something your grandma uses to send christmas pictures with. READ AND "UNDERSTAND" BEFORE YOU BASH.

You recommend downloading games from File planet and Steam......are you completely daft?? I went through this in my writing as well. And what about the people that dont want to sit there downloading games, or who dont have highspeed internet connections, or those that have to reinstall their operationg systems due to a virus or system crash? Do all those people just need to just shut up and sit down and forget about gaming from this point forward. I like having my games ready and waiting for me in box to install when I want and dont want to have to worry about downloading from File Planets slow ass severs and crappy passwords, or Steam which has a very limited offering.

At no time did I say the LCD market would stop producing large screens, I said the revenue they would see from anything higher than those size screens(1280X1024) would drop by very large amounts. Then you made the completely ridiculous statment that I have never worked in an office obviously. Guess what I am in an office right now with 50 computers and each one is using dual monitor setups, and those monitors are all 19" LCD's.
What would my office need wide screen format for? Nothing, the same as probably 90% of the offices in the world. If your office is using wide screen LCD's running @ 1680 resolutions it's because they just wanted to have them or they are graphically focused, or video editing focused.

Hell, government/ educational institution offices still use CRT's, in most places.

Anyways I'm done talking to someone who has no conception of reality, so go ask daddy if you can borrow his car keys, so you can go to school and learn how to properly read and respond to things youv'e read, without hastily bashing them.

Thanks- DragonCyber
August 8, 2008 6:04:05 PM

First off PC is cheaper than getting a console. I built a 500$ gaming PC that runs better than the PS3 and can do alot more. If those crysis rated PC comes out that will help game sales.

Second if PC games disappear im going to get a PS3 and.... guess.... HACK IT. Im fluent in PCs and im sure i can figure out a way to mod a PS3. Heck ill even show all my friends when i learn how. What im trying to say is that theres going to be alot more pirated console games if PC games die.
August 8, 2008 6:12:41 PM

lasttarget said:
First off PC is cheaper than getting a console. I built a 500$ gaming PC that runs better than the PS3 and can do alot more. If those crysis rated PC comes out that will help game sales.

Second if PC games disappear im going to get a PS3 and.... guess.... HACK IT. Im fluent in PCs and im sure i can figure out a way to mod a PS3. Heck ill even show all my friends when i learn how. What im trying to say is that theres going to be alot more pirated console games if PC games die.



Absolutely !!!! Well said.

There are emulators for almost each variety of console, even
each O.S of pc's, as well as commercial version emulators....
the console game piracy industry is a fledgling struggling
at the onset of a hypothetical flood which will be released
if pc gaming dies....
While it will still be possible for 'old skool die-hards' like
myself and some others to take parts specifically manufactured
for consoles and hack-em into a workable pc, I mean why? Except
the enthusiast side that won't let pc gaming go easily into
the long night.!!!! Ha!
August 8, 2008 6:24:49 PM

skittle said:
Sorry but piracy is just a scapegoat some big name companies use to draw attention away from the inherent flaws with their "blockbuster" games.

Two titles are proof of this:
sins of a solar empire
The sims



Spoken like a true pirate!! That's some of the most convoluted logic I've heard in some time.
August 8, 2008 6:28:41 PM

Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft should not be too proud of the technological terrors they have constructed... the ability to optimise for common hardware is insignificant compared to the power of the geForce...
August 8, 2008 6:29:24 PM

I agree with the OP, and unfortunately I think it is too late to save the PC gaming industry. Like the OP, I have played every single one of those games he has listed (especially Wing Commander). Back then, games were just made differently and I honestly miss those days

Since video game consoles have become popular, I have noticed a distinct trend in gaming start to take hold, which is less is more. An average video game on a console today has around 15 hours of playtime. They expect you to pay $60 dollars for this playtime. In my experience,the gameplay is largely linear with a few "decisions" to be made, and then it is over. You may be able to get another play through if you are so inclined, but after 3+ the game is old. I remember playing games like Privateer and Master of Orion 2 for years before they truly became stale. I cannot even estimate how many hours of playtime I got out of those titles.

Just look at the recent critically acclaimed games. BioShock, Mass Effect, Metal Gear Solid 4 all can be beaten in under 20 hours. They are not innovative at all in the effect that they are just a rehash of tried and true game models. There are some games that offer more than this, such as Oblivion, and any PC game with a multiplayer component, but they all follow a specific game model with a few meaningless tweaks.

My reasons for the decline of PC gaming

1. Corporate stranglehold on the industry. Game designers used to treat video games almost as an art form. Now, it is Intellectual property that will give big returns to the companies shareholders. All of these corporate entities in the game industry are reluctant to try anything new because it is not a guaranteed moneymaker like the established game models. Also, they rush these games out the door sometimes so they can start making money on them without even caring about the final state of the product. Also, the corporate stranglehold really is only getting worse with console. We are now starting to see games and DLC that are being made for only for a specific console, usually due to some multi-million dollar incentive the developer received for that content.

2. Consumer laziness. As people have already mentioned, the common person does not want to put the time or effort into figuring out if a game can run on their PC. The PC's format for listing requirements and the sheer amount of hardware options out there do not help this fact.

3. Piracy. Whether it is excessive as the developers claim or not, it is still just the excuse these developers need to move their business to the consoles.

In my opinion, PC gaming is dead. I own a kick-ass PC and a PS3, and I would choose the PC any day of the week. However, it just seems like another year or two and I wil not have the option anymore to choose a game for my PC. Except for MMO's (which I hate) which will eb on the PC's for a couple more years at least.
August 8, 2008 6:37:09 PM

Has everyone forgot about local multiplayer? That is one feature that is, for the most part, only available on consoles.

Never underestimate the desire to play games with your buddies on the couch.
There USED to be the division between PC and consoles.. PCs were for your singleplayer, and ONLINE games... Consoles were for your local multiplayer and the odd singleplayer game.
Now consoles offer ONLINE games, so it does it all, for much cheaper.

What i'm saying, is the PC should offer local multiplayer, and online splitscreen. That, combined with the optional better graphics, will keep PC as the superior platform.

Local multiplayer used to be silly on a PC, as everyone had to huddle around the computer monitor. but now that you can hook up your PC to your HDTV.. a PC could offer local multiplayer, and people would bite.
August 8, 2008 6:48:31 PM

They make a PC that offers local multiplayer, I think it's called an Xbox.. Pbox... something like that...
August 8, 2008 7:00:11 PM

PC Gamining is in decline all down to one reason and one reason only..

People come on here and say "Blah Blah Blah.... No it isnt". Are more than likely that these are perpetrators in downloading and pirating games with out any consideration for anyone else except from theyre selfish mentality...

If you cant afford it does it give you the right to steal a car... No, and this goes for music, games, programs and films..

Ok so when you buy a DVD or a game does it give you the right to ownership...

No, it gives you the right to play it, use it, and as many times as you like for personal use..

PIRACY IS KILLING THE PC..

I do not have a problem with this as paying for games for me has been what is acceptable to the market..

You buy a pc for 2000 dollars or £1000 for a computer and it will give you the best value for money in enterainment than any other device... Plus it plays games and when you pay £30 quid for a game that can last over 2 months of game play that is 50p per hour per day if played on hour a day, or even 10 per hour if played 5 hours a day..

Now you tell me where you pay 50p per hour let alone 10p per hour for some recreational time...

Its cheap...

But all you free loaders want more, expect more and we get less thanks to your selfish act...

Youll say that Xbox 360 games get copied too and yes they do but you have to have it modded and games are a nightmare to copy, unlike pc games which have copy protection removed and hacks made for them.

Halflife 2 was hacked into on its servers . Well done hacker your only peeved off every game player on the pc...

Thought you were clever huh.. Well I got news for you ... it werent and you should spend time in jail rotting with the guy from the uk who was "looking for aliens". Freaking nerds..

The pc was the BEST gaming platform ever, still could be if the game companies can make money on games which cost millions to make...

Maybe pcs are too advanced nowadays to make games within a set budget.....
where consoles are move left, move right ... fire then the gamepad vibrates, move forward, jump, press left on almost the game flaming games day in day out.
August 8, 2008 7:08:36 PM

hixbot said:
Has everyone forgot about local multiplayer? That is one feature that is, for the most part, only available on consoles.

Never underestimate the desire to play games with your buddies on the couch.
There USED to be the division between PC and consoles.. PCs were for your singleplayer, and ONLINE games... Consoles were for your local multiplayer and the odd singleplayer game.
Now consoles offer ONLINE games, so it does it all, for much cheaper.

What i'm saying, is the PC should offer local multiplayer, and online splitscreen. That, combined with the optional better graphics, will keep PC as the superior platform.

Local multiplayer used to be silly on a PC, as everyone had to huddle around the computer monitor. but now that you can hook up your PC to your HDTV.. a PC could offer local multiplayer, and people would bite.


I guess youve never heard of a LAN PARTY?
August 8, 2008 7:18:02 PM

So is this a PC bashing thread?

Without PC's... how would game for console exist?

And if a game was successful on a console, why wouldn't they make a PC or Mac version of it?

There's still money to be made off games that grabs a gamers attention if you ask me.

And besides that, PC hardware pretty much is way head of software for hardware to be used in a fashion that would considered efficient.

This thread kinda reminds me of the cell cpu vs reg cpu thread I saw way back.

I've personally brought all my games from bestbuy, or when compusa was around. I know I'm a cheapo, but I won't buy or take pirated stuff. Its just not right to me. But then you always have someone who wants to break into stuff, and figure out a hack for the pleasure of it.
August 8, 2008 7:23:44 PM

sh**** games kill the industry.

That being said there's about a half dozen PC games i'll be purchasing in the next 3 months alone (can't remember what's coming end of nov-dec). And alot more coming from Valve (tf2 updates, hl2 ep3, p2 etc) and Blizzard in the next year or two.

It's never looked better. The cream of the crop!
August 8, 2008 7:29:45 PM

Just because more games are coming out for consoles does NOT mean PC gaming is dying. :kaola:  Just go to http://www.gamespot.com/ to see the list of upcoming games, including Star Craft 2 and Diablo 3.

One exception is sports games, like Tiger Woods 2008, and others that just work better on consoles, where people can play heads up. PCs only allow one person to play at a time, with the exception of online titles. Another exception is the games targeted to kids, like Mario Cart.

PC games will live for RTS, FPS, simulation, and role playing and adventure games (games that take longer than a couple hours to complete). It will also continue for MMO types. It will continue for titles that can take advantage of the new graphics technologies.

It won't continue for titles that have already reached maturity, like Chess Master and arcade games, that don't need more graphic realism.
August 8, 2008 7:31:12 PM

I feel big companies need to start equiping their computers w/ better power supplies. Most people buy hp's or dell's from best buy or whatever. Then if someone tells them they "need a graphics card to play video games....oh..but u also need a power supply"=mo money. "Oh, you don't know how to install it" =mo money=pain in the ass.
Most ordinary folks don't want to deal w/ it. If the big computer giants(hp, dell..whoever), marketed their comps w/ a good power supply, and that a graphics card of ur choice could be intalled very easily w/ only the drivers to load; I thnik this would definitely help pc sales. Of course this means hp and such would have to charge a lil more for a better psu, but I think people would buy it thinking later they could shop around and add their own graphics card instead of the p.o.s. 8500gt that came w/ their comp, and is not giving them good perfromance.
August 8, 2008 7:32:05 PM

i completely agree, but i think the PC gamer retialers should pull there weight, £45 to 50 for a new PC game really? and COD4 is still £32 on steam, good greif if you sold these for £20 you would make much more money as less people would pirate.

i certainly pay for the games i enjoy especailly if i go online.
August 8, 2008 7:32:14 PM

I think I know how we can turn the tides on PC vs Console war.....
Lets pirate console games! Download ROMs! Whose with me?! We'll make consoles so unprofitable Nintendo will go back to making playing cards!

Joking aside....I don't think PC games are going anywhere. Games like RTSs and RPGs have never been done right on the console. Those will always belong to the PC.
August 8, 2008 7:33:46 PM

stemnin said:
sh**** games kill the industry.


This
August 8, 2008 7:34:06 PM

Also StarCraft 2 and Diablo 3 are coming out soon. That will put some pride back into PC gaming.
August 8, 2008 7:39:50 PM

LoL.....I wonder if you guys will still be on the forums in 10 years preaching the demise of the pc......ill tell you, i own a ps3 and a gigantor rig, and the games look like crap on the ps3 compared to the comp. And the ps3 is hooked up to a 52" 1080p lcd.....so like....It ain't the display. The pc will always be king for those with money, and those with out money will always go to the console because it is a much better deal. But unless the rich populace disappears (which they wont), the pc will always be king....consoles have like a 4 year life cycle......upgrade the vid card in your computer 2 years after you get it and it will last you.....console....straight to the trash or craigslist.
August 8, 2008 7:49:33 PM

All we're missing in this thread is a good ol' Rick Roll

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU

Well, it's not technically a Rick Roll since I am telling you what you will be seeing after you click the link, but, perhaps it will make someone smile... or throw up in their mouths.. either way
August 8, 2008 8:10:04 PM

I think we will be fine. Every market has its slow times and there are plenty of good PC games coming out soon. Starcraft 2 comes to mind as a big one.

Best,

3Ball
August 8, 2008 8:11:51 PM

I'm gonna sum it up to this. Over time the market changes......I am 41 years old. I have seen console and pc side by side for over 30 years. The Atari 2600 was released in 1977. To me the console is for people who like to just play games where the computer does that and a whole lot more. More people know less about how to use a pc than how to use a console. The ease of use makes it easy for any person to just plug it in and play. Plus more people are used to consoles than pc's. When the Atari 2600 came out hardly anyone had a pc in their home.


To me consoles are becoming more like computers and not the other way around. I agree that there have been changes in the market but as long as there is a large enough market for PC gaming then it will never go away.

What me worry? nahhhh
August 8, 2008 8:18:46 PM

steam lets you download the game on multiple pcs, i recently built an old computer and when i wanted to reinstall my games i just went to steam and reinstalled it on my new pc, of course it was slower than popping in a disk
August 8, 2008 8:24:09 PM

Maybe I should check out this steam thing.....
August 8, 2008 8:32:02 PM

Realize as a PC gamer with interest in the worlds best computer hardware,you are among the elite. The best is not for the mainstreme just ,as there are fewer Ferrari and other exotic car dealerships in comparison to the number of average car dealers.
August 8, 2008 8:57:06 PM

Lavacon said:
Piracy is a real problem. It is not a scapegoat. When a game sells 1mil copies and 5mil copies have been pirated there is a problem. Are the pirated versions better? No.. they are free... Many people are cheap. They will spend 2,000 on a "Gaming" PC then not spend the 50$ on a game. It's quite pathetic.


you sir, have just described me... i do feel bad that i've been pirating since forever, in fact my brother is playing a pirated game right now, farcry
but im slowly trying to phase out of it.. i absolutely refuse to pay for any game that came out BEFORE 2005.... i know it sounds ignorant, but i think i should be able to play some classics, hey if they charged $5 for old games, i would totally buy it.....

skittle said:
I guess youve never heard of a LAN PARTY?


i think he meant on one screen.. and i do agree with hixbot, if i was able to do some local multi on one screen, i would love pc so much more, my bro wouldn't have to play on his Shi**** 2002 computer

njalterio said:
Maybe I should check out this steam thing.....

next time you wanna buy a game, get it from steam... yea sure it has its problems as all digital copy download apps have, but i like it... i personally prefer a real copy over digital

and finally i agree with lasttarget as well.. if pc games die, pirating for consoles will SKY rocket

i read through every single comment cause this topic intrigues me, and i do feel im somewhat at fault... i used to pirate movies, games, music, but im slowly phasing myself out

we[my fam] watch movies in theaters simply cause CAM quality on a large screen is horrendous
i buy the dvd's for movies i wanna watch
i have a list of games i want to buy because i realized i just can't play through a game if i didn;t buy it.. and i do wanna buy diablo 3, starcraft 2, champions, mass effect, gta IV, and the list grows

...music is another story, if anything, ill buy a napster account and download every song i own in one month so i don't feel that guilt =P

so i sincerely apologize to all those diehard, loyal gamers for my piracy, and im sure if i can stop, anyone can... people who can;t pay for the games can play the free ones online... theres thousands of them, and some of them are good

*edit*
CAN'T FORGET SPORE =P
August 8, 2008 9:16:59 PM

hixbot said:
Has everyone forgot about local multiplayer? That is one feature that is, for the most part, only available on consoles.

Never underestimate the desire to play games with your buddies on the couch.
There USED to be the division between PC and consoles.. PCs were for your singleplayer, and ONLINE games... Consoles were for your local multiplayer and the odd singleplayer game.
Now consoles offer ONLINE games, so it does it all, for much cheaper.

What i'm saying, is the PC should offer local multiplayer, and online splitscreen. That, combined with the optional better graphics, will keep PC as the superior platform.

Local multiplayer used to be silly on a PC, as everyone had to huddle around the computer monitor. but now that you can hook up your PC to your HDTV.. a PC could offer local multiplayer, and people would bite.



:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  I was playing warcraft over a modem line against my brother 10 years ago!. People go to LAN parties dragging their PC's or laptop's behind them. Also you can play numerous games online using your computer that you and your friends can play on. Our lan group will often have one person run a designated server that we all join so we can play together.......and it doesn't cost a dime....


:lol:  split screen............ :pt1cable:  Who needs a spit screen when you have a pc..........








August 8, 2008 9:18:40 PM

I think Source7200 has the right idea.

1. Market Saturation. How many FPS do we need? Not all PC consumers have the ability to buy CoD4, UT3, and Crysis. Some consumers have to make a choice then stick with that.

2. Console games can be rented, a game can be finished in 1-2 week then it's returned. Adults with children would rather pay the small rental fee $5 than a high ownership cost $40-$60.

3. MMO's - People pay $15 a month, after 3-4month that is the value of a new game. Since the cost is monthly many just continue to play their MMO and not invest into new games as often.
August 8, 2008 9:28:01 PM

In the death of PC gaming, there is no one to blame but ourselves; we haven't taken a strong enough stance against piracy, and we've pushed developers away from the platform because of it. Why waste the time releasing a game on the PC that will sell maybe 500,000 copies when GTA IV and Gears of War sold over 5 million copies, Call of Duty 4 over 6 million, and Halo 3 over 8 million copies on the Xbox360 alone. Add in the PS3 numbers to GTA IV and Call of Duty 4, and it really makes you wonder why people are even bothering to release titles on the PC these days. I love the PC and have always loved the PC as a gaming platform, but lately it seems like the damage is irreversible, and that the only developers that are going to stay are Blizzard and Valve, although Valve has already started branching out to the Xbox360 as well.
August 8, 2008 10:01:56 PM

Flyin15 has hit the nail on the head IMO. People are all logged into WoW and dont have time or dont feel the need to purchase new games.

Go tell Blizzard that PC gaming is dying, they will laugh in your face, I guarantee it.
August 8, 2008 11:05:00 PM

Console Game is very easy to market than a PC. Common people with no time or patience to learn the intricacies of PC can immediately enjoy PS3, XBOX360 or WII. It a business and game makers will go to where the money is.

PC game will remain superior than console games (regardless of the cost) on all technical aspect. PS3 and XBOX360 hardware is 4th generation older than our PC hardware.

PS3 for all its hype run games in 720P without telling the users. Assasins creed and Call of Duty 4 runs on 720P on PS3. PS3 Engine can't match the capability of the current PC. But again common people don't really care about it. Maybe 720P is good enough for them

We all know that 720P is not enough for PC games. PC Video card alone is far more expensive than the console games.

Its a fact of life that PC games is a minute percentage of the GAME business. It will remain that way since the CONSOLE GAME is an easier market to capture.

PC games will not go away any time soon. Its the bench mark of computer games. Development of games are still done on PC platform with cross compiler to console.

I'm a PC gamer and will remain on this platform. I like excellent graphics and excellent game-story/plot. I like the control that are availbe on PC & PC games. As long as you have the money you can improve the quality of your game. You can't do that on CONSOLE GAMES.

On Console games you get what the game makers think you need. They even decide what resolution you should play your game. I DONT LIKE THAT SCENARIO AT ALL.

When I'm not playing my PC run my design simulations that takes if not hours, weeks to finish. I can't do that on PS3 or XBOX360.

Thats my personal view...

!