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DLP rainbow effects...

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Anonymous
September 16, 2005 9:10:52 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I am considering purchasing this technology. However, the so-called pinwheel
rainbow effect concerns me. I noticed that Samsung (website) now boasts of
newer and faster pinwheels, seemingly eliminating this anomaly. Nonetheless,
I prefer Mitsubishi given their reliability track record.

Anyone own a recent generation DLP notice the rainbow effect and with what
programming?

Thanks,
Stu

More about : dlp rainbow effects

Anonymous
September 16, 2005 2:46:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

saxmaniac wrote:
> I am considering purchasing this technology. However, the so-called pinwheel
> rainbow effect concerns me. I noticed that Samsung (website) now boasts of
> newer and faster pinwheels, seemingly eliminating this anomaly. Nonetheless,
> I prefer Mitsubishi given their reliability track record.
>
> Anyone own a recent generation DLP notice the rainbow effect and with what
> programming?

My Samsung DLP is the older technology, and I've never seen a rainbow in
nearly two years of viewing.
Anonymous
September 16, 2005 3:23:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I recently (4 weeks) purchased a Samsung 61" DLP. I have HD OTA and
cable. I watch sports in HD when I can, the occasional movie and also
use it as a computer monitor. While watching live sports, on
occasion, I do notice a slight "blurring" effect on occasion around
some subjects. It only occurs intermittently on certain shots. I'm
not sure this is the rainbow effect spoken of, but it is extremely
minor and in no way detracts from my satisfaction with the set.
Related resources
Anonymous
September 16, 2005 4:16:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

saxmaniac wrote:
> I am considering purchasing this technology. However, the so-called pinwheel
> rainbow effect concerns me. I noticed that Samsung (website) now boasts of
> newer and faster pinwheels, seemingly eliminating this anomaly. Nonetheless,
> I prefer Mitsubishi given their reliability track record.
>
> Anyone own a recent generation DLP notice the rainbow effect and with what
> programming?
>
> Thanks,
> Stu
Have you considered a JVC HD ILA set?
Anonymous
September 16, 2005 4:34:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I recently (4 weeks) purchased a Samsung 61" DLP. I have HD OTA and
cable. I watch sports in HD when I can, the occasional movie and also
use it as a computer monitor. While watching live sports, on
occasion, I do notice a slight "blurring" effect on occasion around
some subjects. It only occurs intermittently on certain shots. I'm
not sure this is the rainbow effect spoken of, but it is extremely
minor and in no way detracts from my satisfaction with the set.
Anonymous
September 16, 2005 6:17:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

saxmaniac wrote:
>
> I am considering purchasing this technology. However, the so-called pinwheel
> rainbow effect concerns me. I noticed that Samsung (website) now boasts of
> newer and faster pinwheels, seemingly eliminating this anomaly. Nonetheless,
> I prefer Mitsubishi given their reliability track record.
>
> Anyone own a recent generation DLP notice the rainbow effect and with what
> programming?
>
> Thanks,
> Stu
I have a Samsumg DLP5063W and watch a lot of TV (over the air, satellite
and DVD). I have never seen the rainbow effect. If you do not see it
when you view a TV at the store, then you probably will not be bothered
by it either.
Anonymous
September 16, 2005 7:19:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

It also seems genetic...the ability to see DLP rainbows.

I watched a ton of DLP sets in stores...and never saw one.

However, I didn't buy one because I always had a fear that 6 months down the
road, after I had already bought one, they would appear.


"saxmaniac" <saxmaniac@cox.net> wrote in message
news:D CyWe.80003$DW1.73579@fed1read06...
>I am considering purchasing this technology. However, the so-called
>pinwheel rainbow effect concerns me. I noticed that Samsung (website) now
>boasts of newer and faster pinwheels, seemingly eliminating this anomaly.
>Nonetheless, I prefer Mitsubishi given their reliability track record.
>
> Anyone own a recent generation DLP notice the rainbow effect and with what
> programming?
>
> Thanks,
> Stu
>
September 16, 2005 7:54:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

The rainbow affect is most noticable in darker scenes(if you notice it at
all). I can make myself see the affect if I try, but it's not really
obnoxious even then. Some people my be real bothered by the affect however.

Another poster commented about blurring in fast motion scenes. That is
not the rainbow affect, that blurring is caused by MPEG compression(or more
accurately excessive compression). They are often called "MPEG artifacts".


"saxmaniac" <saxmaniac@cox.net> wrote in message
news:D CyWe.80003$DW1.73579@fed1read06...
>I am considering purchasing this technology. However, the so-called
>pinwheel rainbow effect concerns me. I noticed that Samsung (website) now
>boasts of newer and faster pinwheels, seemingly eliminating this anomaly.
>Nonetheless, I prefer Mitsubishi given their reliability track record.
>
> Anyone own a recent generation DLP notice the rainbow effect and with what
> programming?
>
> Thanks,
> Stu
>
Anonymous
September 16, 2005 8:27:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"saxmaniac" <saxmaniac@cox.net> wrote in message
news:D CyWe.80003$DW1.73579@fed1read06...
> I am considering purchasing this technology. However, the so-called
pinwheel
> rainbow effect concerns me. I noticed that Samsung (website) now boasts of
> newer and faster pinwheels, seemingly eliminating this anomaly.
Nonetheless,
> I prefer Mitsubishi given their reliability track record.
>
> Anyone own a recent generation DLP notice the rainbow effect and with what
> programming?
>
> Thanks,
> Stu
>
>
Anonymous
September 16, 2005 8:45:44 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"dj" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:H6mdnZSjgJ2E0LbenZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@scnresearch.com...
> The rainbow affect is most noticable in darker scenes(if you notice it
at
> all). I can make myself see the affect if I try, but it's not really
> obnoxious even then. Some people my be real bothered by the affect
however.

Indeed, I hope I don't ruin it for all of you who have never seen the
"rainbow effect", but it happens most often in dark scenes with a bright
spot visible somewhere in the picture area. If the viewer's attention is
suddenly shifted to a different point in the picture, the bright spot will
leave a trail of RG&B images for a fleeting moment, due to the persistence
of vision effect, and the fact that the white spot is made up of a
*sequence* of images.

If they have found a way to reduce the effect, that's great, since my
experience dates back about 4 years to when the DLP first appeared on the
market. I had one in my living room for about two days, and decided I just
didn't want to spend the next ten years trying to ignore stuff like that in
my evening viewing - - got a 60" Sony LCD rear projection set and have been
amazed by the pictures it produces ever since. Football, tennis, CSI Miami
in HD! - - Spectacular!
Anonymous
September 16, 2005 9:25:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"saxmaniac" <saxmaniac@cox.net> wrote in message
news:D CyWe.80003$DW1.73579@fed1read06...
> I am considering purchasing this technology. However, the so-called
pinwheel
> rainbow effect concerns me. I noticed that Samsung (website) now boasts of
> newer and faster pinwheels, seemingly eliminating this anomaly.
Nonetheless,
> I prefer Mitsubishi given their reliability track record.
>
> Anyone own a recent generation DLP notice the rainbow effect and with what
> programming?
>
> Thanks,
> Stu
>
I have a Samsung DLP that's about a year and a half old. I've never ever
noticed anything like a rainbow effect, and my eyes are very sensitive to
flicker. Can't use monitor refresh below 85 Hz, and even that will give me
eye strain, though I don't actually see the flicker.
September 16, 2005 10:09:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Just to be clear, DLP has no flicker like a CRT video display. Once a
mirror moves to a position it stays there until the next frame, unlike the
phosphor on a CRT that fades after being hit with the electron stream.

"William Oertell" <oertell_NOT@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:11imoko3e8p7uea@news.supernews.com...
>
> "saxmaniac" <saxmaniac@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:D CyWe.80003$DW1.73579@fed1read06...
>> I am considering purchasing this technology. However, the so-called
> pinwheel
>> rainbow effect concerns me. I noticed that Samsung (website) now boasts
>> of
>> newer and faster pinwheels, seemingly eliminating this anomaly.
> Nonetheless,
>> I prefer Mitsubishi given their reliability track record.
>>
>> Anyone own a recent generation DLP notice the rainbow effect and with
>> what
>> programming?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Stu
>>
> I have a Samsung DLP that's about a year and a half old. I've never ever
> noticed anything like a rainbow effect, and my eyes are very sensitive to
> flicker. Can't use monitor refresh below 85 Hz, and even that will give
> me
> eye strain, though I don't actually see the flicker.
>
>
Anonymous
September 17, 2005 11:21:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"saxmaniac" <saxmaniac@cox.net> wrote in message
news:D CyWe.80003$DW1.73579@fed1read06...
>I am considering purchasing this technology. However, the so-called
>pinwheel rainbow effect concerns me. I noticed that Samsung (website) now
>boasts of newer and faster pinwheels, seemingly eliminating this anomaly.
>Nonetheless, I prefer Mitsubishi given their reliability track record.
>
> Anyone own a recent generation DLP notice the rainbow effect and with what
> programming?
>
> Thanks,
> Stu

Mitsubishi has consistently been very responsive to consumers and to
servicers and makes excellent products. We don't sell the Samsung, but
dealers who do and servicers who fix a lot of their products have given me
the impression that we don't want to. We actually sold one Samsung to a
client who had a specific application that required it to fit. That set
broke and the support from Samsung was poor, compared to what I would get
from Mitsubishi. This depends a lot also on the local servicer. If there
are no local ASCs for one or the other brands, that brand may be a bad
choice.

As for the rainbow effects, of the many sets that we have sold, I have had
only one client report that it is bothersome. I service the sets and see
them every day and can detect it if I try, but I do not consider it to be an
issue. This is a very personal decision, however, and I suggest careful
viewing. There is likely little difference in the current models between
Samsung and Mitsubishi in terms of rainbow effects.

Leonard
Anonymous
September 17, 2005 11:29:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"dj" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:D PmdnbuwB41D8bbeRVn-qg@scnresearch.com...
> Just to be clear, DLP has no flicker like a CRT video display. Once a
> mirror moves to a position it stays there until the next frame, unlike the
> phosphor on a CRT that fades after being hit with the electron stream.

You are correct that you will not see flicker, but wrong on the reason. The
mirrors move at such a high rate that no flicker is noticed. Go to
www.dlp.com for an explanation of how it works. Think about it. If a
mirror stayed in the same position for a full frame, you would only get two
levels of light, total black or total white, in any frame. You would
actually be more likely to see flicker than with the way they actually work.

Leonard
Anonymous
September 17, 2005 4:18:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 18:09:49 -0700 dj <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:

| Just to be clear, DLP has no flicker like a CRT video display. Once a
| mirror moves to a position it stays there until the next frame, unlike the
| phosphor on a CRT that fades after being hit with the electron stream.

The mirrors have to keep moving between white and black state to give you
anything between those extremes. For light gray it will be in the white
state for a time longer than in the black state. For dark gray, it will
be the other way around. The rate of this state flipping is the rate of
flicker, and it does _not_ get any dampening effect by persistence of the
phosphor a CRT has. So you get the flicker at full power. To avoid seeing
it, the flipping rate needs to be higher than your eyes can perceive (and
some people can see higher rates than others).

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Phil Howard KA9WGN | http://linuxhomepage.com/ http://ham.org/ |
| (first name) at ipal.net | http://phil.ipal.org/ http://ka9wgn.ham.org/ |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anonymous
September 17, 2005 8:29:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

saxmaniac wrote:
> I am considering purchasing this technology. However, the so-called pinwheel
> rainbow effect concerns me. I noticed that Samsung (website) now boasts of
> newer and faster pinwheels, seemingly eliminating this anomaly. Nonetheless,
> I prefer Mitsubishi given their reliability track record.
>
> Anyone own a recent generation DLP notice the rainbow effect and with what
> programming?
>
> Thanks,
> Stu
>
>

I recently purchased the Samsung HL-R6178W 1080p HDTV. The color wheel
effects are hard to notice and I haven't found a repeatable way to see
them. The rainbow effect is caused by the color wheel. The newer Samsung
model spins the wheel at 10800 rpm or 180 rps. The wheel turns three
times during a 1/60 of a second and since the wheel is patterned with
two of each primary color (red, blue, green), each color is shown six
times during the 1/60 second interval. Very fast visual refresh and
except for rare occasions there are no rainbow effects. Others, who have
watched, have not indicated they saw rainbows; haven't told them though
to watch for rainbows and not going to tell them either.
BTW, the Samsung HL-R6178W built in ATSC tuner is by far the best tuner
I have used. Compared with the Dish Network 8VSB plug in OTA module, the
Samsung SIR-T150 digital tuner STB and the fourth generation Zenith HDV
420 digital tuner STB, the new tuner is far superior to the others with
respect to multipath reception. Using a rotor and a high gain antenna,
the antenna can be turned almost a full 360 degrees and not loose
reception; yet the other three tuners will loose reception shortly after
45 degrees off axis. Multipath rapidly increases as the antenna is moved
off axis, at points there are multiple ghosts of various delays causing
severe distortion.
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 2:29:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I have a WD-62525 Mits and really love it, but if you decide to buy one look
out for warped pictures and excessive overscan as opposed to rainbows. I had
one hell of a time getting the retailer or Mits to do anything about the
EXTREME warp of the picture in the bottom right hand corner (think of the
ESPN bottom line bending upwards at the last 1/8th of the picture or so)
which all the sets in the store had. I actually read about it on AVS and
found one that I could personally adjust almost completely out. Mitsubishi
claimed they were all "within" specs because the edge of the picture isn't
visible. Well, there is so much damn overscan that you if you mess with the
adjustments (keystone) you can have the picture warped and twisted to
ridiculous proportions without being able to see the edge. I was EXTREMELY
disappointed with Mitsubishi's response to this and will probably think
twice before I ever buy another product from them again.

Bob K.

"saxmaniac" <saxmaniac@cox.net> wrote in message
news:D CyWe.80003$DW1.73579@fed1read06...
> I am considering purchasing this technology. However, the so-called
pinwheel
> rainbow effect concerns me. I noticed that Samsung (website) now boasts of
> newer and faster pinwheels, seemingly eliminating this anomaly.
Nonetheless,
> I prefer Mitsubishi given their reliability track record.
>
> Anyone own a recent generation DLP notice the rainbow effect and with what
> programming?
>
> Thanks,
> Stu
>
>
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 5:25:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I picked up an RCA Scenium for a really excellent price and I absolutely
love it !!

It has the best HD picture I have seen, both my brothers have big screen
HDTVs.

I have noticed no rainbow effect whatsoever.
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 11:36:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"bobukcat" <bobukcat@killspam.fuse.net> wrote in message
news:1f5a5$432f741c$d8c4ab8f$10195@FUSE.NET...
>I have a WD-62525 Mits and really love it, but if you decide to buy one
>look
> out for warped pictures and excessive overscan as opposed to rainbows. I
> had
> one hell of a time getting the retailer or Mits to do anything about the
> EXTREME warp of the picture in the bottom right hand corner (think of the
> ESPN bottom line bending upwards at the last 1/8th of the picture or so)
> which all the sets in the store had. I actually read about it on AVS and
> found one that I could personally adjust almost completely out. Mitsubishi
> claimed they were all "within" specs because the edge of the picture isn't
> visible. Well, there is so much damn overscan that you if you mess with
> the
> adjustments (keystone) you can have the picture warped and twisted to
> ridiculous proportions without being able to see the edge. I was EXTREMELY
> disappointed with Mitsubishi's response to this and will probably think
> twice before I ever buy another product from them again.
>
> Bob K.

Did you ever get it fixed? How much overscan? Did you ever get the mirror
checked. I have had two sets come in with the mirror either not installed
right or shifted partially out of the bracket in shipping.

The new chassis design from Mits is much more solid and much more
serviceable, BTW.

Leonard
Anonymous
September 21, 2005 4:27:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Any visibility of the rainbow effect from a rotating color wheel will decrease
with time as your brain accommodates to the picture. After a few weeks you will
only notice it when you try to - such as flicking your eye rapidly up the
screen. After a few months you won't be bothered by it at all.

phil-news-nospam@ipal.net wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 18:09:49 -0700 dj <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> | Just to be clear, DLP has no flicker like a CRT video display. Once a
> | mirror moves to a position it stays there until the next frame, unlike the
> | phosphor on a CRT that fades after being hit with the electron stream.
>
> The mirrors have to keep moving between white and black state to give you
> anything between those extremes. For light gray it will be in the white
> state for a time longer than in the black state. For dark gray, it will
> be the other way around. The rate of this state flipping is the rate of
> flicker, and it does _not_ get any dampening effect by persistence of the
> phosphor a CRT has. So you get the flicker at full power. To avoid seeing
> it, the flipping rate needs to be higher than your eyes can perceive (and
> some people can see higher rates than others).
>
Anonymous
September 21, 2005 1:34:38 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"WDino" <oniDW@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:p N1Ye.1248$0E5.910@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Any visibility of the rainbow effect from a rotating color wheel will
> decrease with time as your brain accommodates to the picture. After a few
> weeks you will only notice it when you try to - such as flicking your eye
> rapidly up the screen. After a few months you won't be bothered by it at
> all.

Actually, IME, people who see it generally report that once they see it they
are more likely to notice it and it is a continual annoyance. Those of us
who can see it if we try might be more likely to accomodate the problem.
Accomodation is more likely with phenomena that are continually present.
The way most people notice rainbows is when a very bright area is adjacent
to a dark area and the light moves or one moves the eyes or head. It is
experienced by most peolple as an intermittent annoyance, not a continual
one.

Personally, I have to try to see it and can watch DLP sets comfortably.
Others experiences vary.

Leonard
!