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New Comer to Watercooling

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June 11, 2009 4:31:20 PM

I currently own an Antec 900 that is modded for good cable management, hole in the bottom for psu fan to be mounted correctly, and every 120mm fan slot filled. As you can expect my case is not quiet! With 8 fans running at once the thing sounds like a jet, and needs to be turned off at night for me to be able to sleep in the same room as it. Great for overclocking though =) But I would now like to finally make the switch to water cooling. I realize the Antec 900 is going to be a challenge, but im very use to modding to make things work and look good. The thing im not so good at / dont know much about is water cooling. I have read some beginners guides and learned as much as i can, but now i would like suggestions on what to buy. I have seen people suggesting the Swiftech H20-220 kit, and others saying your better off going without a kit and buying all the pieces. The problem i have with that kit and probably others is the fact i would like to cool my gpu.. and possibly my PWN. Im willing to spend up to $500 on the total maybe a little more, but certainly less would be better. All help / suggestions will be greatly appreciated, and thanks in advance!

More about : comer watercooling

June 11, 2009 5:04:53 PM

I would get a new case if you don't want to do some modding.
June 11, 2009 5:57:24 PM

As i said in my first post im use to modding so its not that big of a deal, just need suggestions on parts =)
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a c 324 K Overclocking
June 11, 2009 6:02:47 PM

I run WC and have 10 fans...6 on my rads alone. WC doesn't necessarily mean silent...it just depends on your expectations, what you are cooling and what you have to work with. It sounds like you have a pretty good budget (~$500) to get some great components. Look around for posts in WC by Conumdrum...he has a copy/paste with a lot of goodies in there. Read up and take your time figuring out what you need.
June 11, 2009 6:58:47 PM

First you need to figure out exactly what you want to water cool. A list of your system specs would also be helpful.

Assuming you want to cool your CPU and GPU at a minimum you will need a dual 120mm radiator and probably should go for a triple 120mm radiator. You will want a CPU cooler, a full coverage GPU cooler that will cool the memory and mosfets as well as the GPU, a pump, tubing, clamps, and a reservoir (or use a t-line).

Some good places to buy watercooling parts are:
www.dangerden.com
www. petrastechshop.com
www.frozencpu.com

If you provide a list or your system specs I can give you more specifics.
June 11, 2009 8:41:46 PM

Specs are as follows:
Q6600 at 3.8ghz w/Tuniq 120
Abit IP35-E
EVGA GTX 280 FTW
Gskill 2X2GB 1333mhz
Corsair 620HX
2x1TB 7200 series Seagates

My overall goal out of all of this is to make my computer slightly more quiet but keep as good if not better cooling. The parts i want to cool are my CPU,GPU and if i can PWM. The part i need help with is picking out quality parts to achieve what i want, so a parts list from one of you would be appreciated.
a c 324 K Overclocking
June 11, 2009 8:47:11 PM

PWM?

June 11, 2009 9:34:44 PM

Never heard of PWM on a motherboard? i believe most have a sensor for it. I know mine does, and its the only part of my board keeping me from overclocking my Q6600 higher. I guess for now i can just stick with asking for help picking parts only for my CPU and GPU. =)
a b K Overclocking
June 11, 2009 11:31:18 PM

Most boards have PWM (pulse width modulation) used to control fans. Sensors are usually mounted on the fan and not on the motherboard. Also try SpeedFan if you want to control fan speeds.

Conumdrum said:
I'll just snip the whole thing, I just redid parts of it.

Us guys have done the WC thing, there are basics you gotta know. Take a look, don't take it as a diss on you or a rebuttal, look at as a friend saying "Dude, you gotta know what to say and how to communicate".
.......................................
CPU HS $65
GPU HS and air HS for vram and mosfets $95, full cover block, $100-$200
Radiator $60 min, up to $130
Pump $50 +
Resiviour $25
Hose, some barbs and clamps etc (min $25, more like $35)
Fans $15-30

I went top notch and spent close to $600 to cool my CPU and GPU.
First you gotta learn about WC. It's not like walking into Best Buy.
Spend a while (weeks is best for your sanity) at these links.
Look at the hundreds of loops close to your case and components in the stickies, read a couple 50 or so threads over the next week or so, you'll be on the ball to make the right choices and by then know how to put it together.
Not 'Roket Sience', but basic knowledge is required.
And you should spend a few hours on the listed sites reading threads. It's how we learn. Once the goodies show up on your doorstep your on your own.
For your benefit please spend a few days reading a LOT. At the busiest places for WC masters. Guys who have done it for YEARS at OC Forums and xtreme forums. It took me a while (I was OCing on air, aftermarket stuff, bios settings, best chipsets etc etc) to learn the language and the tricks to a easy install.

Don't expect miracles or SUPER DOOPER over clocks. What you will get is a quiet system that can handle OC to the max of your hardware IF you buy quality and buy smart. And minor maintenance too, a bonus for the water cooler.

Also while there please read on case mods etc. The radiators are not for small cases, pumps and hose routing, wire management and other things are important. Google your planned case and the word water-cooled in one line. You might get lucky.
............................
Edit: The next paragraph was from 2008. With the advent of the HOT i7 and bigger GPU's, it has changed. A 220 size MIN rad for an i7, you want big overclocks, better go 320 sized rad.
................................

IF you just cool your CPU and your NB if you want, you can get by with a 120.2 sized radiator (RAD). And MAYBE fit in inside depending on your mod skillz. You want to cool your GPU too, you'll need a 120.3 sized rad, and it probably won't fit inside. The rear external rad really works great. No matter what your adding 10lbs to your PC.

Once you got an idea of what is good/bad then start getting your system for WC put together and we'll be glad to help.
,…………………………………………………………
Here is the poop on solid info on air/water temps. The link is to an MCR320.
http://martin.skinneelabs.com/Swifte...20-Review.html
Scroll half way down and you can see the in/out air diff on the chart. It depends, like I said on fannage what the out air temp vs. the in temp is.

You can also see the water in/out is very close in temps. No more than 1.5 C. Amazing eh? I thought so too once I deciphered the charts.

So if you put a second rad with good airflow, you still get good results. Fannage needs to be higher to compensate for the increased air restriction. Meaning double fans on the rad setup, but it's a viable solution.

Equilibrium (tough word) means with a set heat load (idle/load) after an amount of time temps in a WC loop will stabilize. The heat load is the same, ambient air is the same, fannage is the same, pumps are the same, size of rads are the same, temps will stabilize for those conditions. Any of these parameters change, it has to stabilize. …………………………………………………………
Cleaning a loop, not a new loop: I do this once a year, I drain and refill at 6 months, the next time I do this……..
Wash hands very well, getting rid of hand oils.
For pumps and blocks, fittings, clamps, acrylic res/block parts.... not hose, tear it to smallest pieces, put in a bowl, heat water up not to boiling add 10% vinegar, when hot, pour over parts. Rinse in 10 min or so. Put aside.
The bocks will probably have some black oxidation. Take the copper parts out of the pile of parts you took out of the water. Dry well and pour ketchup on them, and set aside. Only the copper parts need this.
Rad cleaning: fill with very almost boiling hot water. Let sit 10 minutes, drain half out and shake for 5 min. Repeat till liquid is clean.
All the pump, block, fittings, and clamps, inspect, get in the tiniest corners with a tooth brush. Kind of meditative, time consuming, you learn a lot about o-ring size, how it all feels. Run a rag using a caat hanger and dish soap through the tubing, rinse well.
Rinse all the parts and hose with distilled, dry then really dry with an air compressor (nice extra step to get rid of water spots). Don’t need to dry the inside of the hose.
Now on to the copper parts, they should have been soaking an hour or two. A toothbrush and ketchup should clean much of the oxidation. It probably won’t be like new, but pretty darn good. Rinse, dry, and blow the parts.
That’s it.
………………………………………………………
Benching software and such is very varied. I use these for each purpose:
These are pretty standard and used by many.
Monitoring the PC temps overall: HWmonitor aka hardware monitor
CPUZ for CPU info
GPUZ for GPU info
CPU only: RealTemp
GPU only: ATI Tool, I have a Nivida GTX280, so it works on Nvidia

Loading/benching tools:
CPU loaders: Prime95 and OCCT
GPU Loaders: ATI Tool and the best one is Furmark, nothing pushes the GPU harder right now.
Benching for overall graphics/gaming performance is 3DMark06
……………………………………………………………
Guides
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=... Pretty up to date info and buying guide
 verclocking-and-cooling&Itemid=86" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://gilgameshreviews.com/index.php?option=com_conten... Another good guide
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=... What to do once all the stuff is in the door

Forums
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/index.php? Not a noob site, but great stickies
http://www.ocforums.com/ My fav, good peeps, know their stuff, less hardcore
http://www.over-clock.com/ivb/inde [...] opic=20277 A GREAT Europe site
http://www.overclock.net/water-cooling/ Decent site

Tests on equipment, not reviews, truly scientific tests
http://translate.google.com/transl [...] n&ie=UTF-8 Info on rad testing
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=22... More rad testing
http://skinneelabs.com/ Host for Martins lab and some newer tests
http://www.skinneelabs.com/MartinsLiquidLab/ Test results, very technical


Stores
http://www.dangerden.com/index.php [...] e&Itemid=1
http://www.petrastechshop.com/
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/
http://www.jab-tech.com/
http://www.performance-pcs.com

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/252455-29-water-coole...

Note: OP, any specific reason for going water cooling? Your Q6600 has a VERY good OC on it already, as it usually clocks only to 3.6Ghz stable (P95 6+hrs).
June 12, 2009 12:31:37 AM

Im not referring to pulse width modulation... on the Abit IP35-E the heat sinks near the CPU are referred to as PWM. Trust me i know in depth how / what pulse width modulation is because I have programed a variety of things to use it. Thank you for referencing conumdrums post I have already read it before but it was useful. All im looking for here a list of parts with links that people could suggest, thats all =). I realize my Q6600 is an excellent overclocker but thats not the purpose of this at all, as stated above i have an antec 900 that sounds like a jet, i would like to keep my cooling, if not improve it.. but lose the noise associated with it. Thank you for any future suggestions.
a c 324 K Overclocking
June 12, 2009 1:20:23 PM

If we haven't heard of waterblocks for a specific component, then they probably don't exist. I was assuming you meant the MOSFETs or something. Can you drop a link for PWM?

You still haven't said exactly what you want to cool...CPU only? GPU? To really get going you need to know what your plans are...otherwise, suggesting pumps and rads is difficult based on lack of information.
June 12, 2009 3:52:22 PM

Look up IP35-E PWM and you will find results for what im referring to but it doesnt matter at this point, and yes it is a mosfet but for some reason the manual referrs to it as PWM.

Anyways, i did mention i want to cool my CPU and my GPU and thats it for now forget the PWM.

My current thoughts are as follows:
HK 3.0 cpu block
XSPC RX360
MCP355 18W pump with the XSPC reservoir top
Primochill Primoflex Pro LRT

Suggestions on changes and a gpu block will be appreciated.
a b K Overclocking
June 12, 2009 10:07:50 PM

^Swap block to GTZ (worth it esp. if you plan to go to an i7 (or what ever comes down the road later). The pump would be fine, but I recommend the MCP655(~2.5x the flow of the MCP355). This would help esp. if adding multiple high restriction blocks.

Don't bother cooling MOSFETs. Just attach some MOSFET heatsinks (if it dosen't already have it) and/or a low RPM (or low dB ) fan.
June 13, 2009 9:34:20 AM

MCP355 (DDC v3.2) is a decent pump for single-waterblock loop if paired with a XSPC Res top, but cost/performance wise the MCP655 (Laing D5) is still better.
Remember it's not just about the flow rate @0'. You have to look at the entire flowrate vs. pressure curve and find out which section your particular loop lands.
Martin's flowrate Excel spreadsheet (downloadable from XS) is most helpful in determining that.

I always use a GPU-only waterblock and never a full-cover block for performance and cost reasons. Using a Swiftech MCW60-R atm. For dealing with MOSFETs I custom make them from heatsink slabs. But for others full-cover blocks might be the better option if no suitable MOSFET cooling can be found. Just remember if you go full-cover, you won't be able to use it on another gfx card when upgrading.
a c 324 K Overclocking
June 15, 2009 2:25:14 PM

I also use the MCW-60's on my SLI setup...I love those suckers...they cool great. RAMsinks are necessary, though, but I love that I can use the blocks on several models of cards with a $9 bracket change instead of dropping $120 on a full cover block each time...
a b K Overclocking
June 15, 2009 5:16:39 PM

^True that. Those generic GPU cooling only blocks will last a few generations of GPUs, providing they can cool the GPU enough. Imo, the GPUs are going the way of Netburst with these ridiculous increases in heat.
a c 324 K Overclocking
June 15, 2009 5:47:57 PM

I haven't had a problem with the MCW60's...they have followed me from my 8800GTS 640 up to the GTX 260's...
June 15, 2009 7:39:58 PM

The new champ in GPU-only block seems to be Dtek FuZion gfx v2 now according to various data, which wasn't available when I purchased the MCW60-R(the rev.2 one). Marginally better performance and much better pressure drop. Certainly nothing like the flow-killer of FuZion gfx v1.
Jab-tech has them for around the same price as MCW60-R I think.
a c 324 K Overclocking
June 15, 2009 8:12:15 PM

I think I picked up both my MCW60's for around $35 with the blister pack containing the extra G92 bracket.
!