Is AMD going to split?

[jimmysmitty]

Back a few months ago there was a rumor swirling around about AMD going to a FAB Lite strategy. Meaning they would offload their FABs and outsoruce their chip fabrication. Now we never had a 100% to this rumor but it is still around and has some interesting questions arising.

My questions are:

Is AMD planning a Asset Light and Asset Smart strategy?

How will this affect the CPU market?

How will this affect the GPU market?

Where does their ATI division stand with this decision if it does come true?

Will this benefit AMD or hurt them in the long run?

I am sure there are even more questions but these are some basic ones that come to my mind. I think the most important one is the last one. Being weather or not this is a good idea in the long run. ATI had and still uses a third praty FAB, TSMC, which worked out great for them. But will it work the same for AMD? And will it benefit AMDs margins to allow them to regain profitability?

Now we still do not know 100% if the rumor is true but one thing is for sure: Hector has not left. A lot of people believe that Hector ran AMD horribly. I myself think under his management AMD has suffered more than they have benefited. Back a few months ago as well Hector left the CEO position but did not leave his position as Chairman of the Board. Now this may not seem like anything big but as Chairman of the Board he has a lot of power and according to a post on THG he is going to stay there and try to see the Asset Light and Asset Smart strategy through:

Hector Ruiz ’ time at the AMD as we know it today is coming to an end. Ruiz recently stepped down from his role as CEO, but kept his position as chairman of the board with the purpose of launching AMD’s Asset Light and Asset Smart strategies, which are expected to split AMD into two entities.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/AMD-Asset-Light-Smart-Ruiz,6109.html

Feel free to comment but please no flaming, stupidity or fanboyism. I am sure other people have questions and hopefully they will be answered in time. And hopefully this is a move for good not bad.

 

[Hellboy]

Back a few months ago there was a rumor swirling around about AMD going to a FAB Lite strategy. Meaning they would offload their FABs and outsoruce their chip fabrication. Now we never had a 100% to this rumor but it is still around and has some interesting questions arising.

My questions are:

Is AMD planning a Asset Light and Asset Smart strategy?

How will this affect the CPU market?

How will this affect the GPU market?

Where does their ATI division stand with this decision if it does come true?

Will this benefit AMD or hurt them in the long run?

I am sure there are even more questions but these are some basic ones that come to my mind. I think the most important one is the last one. Being weather or not this is a good idea in the long run. ATI had and still uses a third praty FAB, TSMC, which worked out great for them. But will it work the same for AMD? And will it benefit AMDs margins to allow them to regain profitability?

Now we still do not know 100% if the rumor is true but one thing is for sure: Hector has not left. A lot of people believe that Hector ran AMD horribly. I myself think under his management AMD has suffered more than they have benefited. Back a few months ago as well Hector left the CEO position but did not leave his position as Chairman of the Board. Now this may not seem like anything big but as Chairman of the Board he has a lot of power and according to a post on THG he is going to stay there and try to see the Asset Light and Asset Smart strategy through:

Hector Ruiz ’ time at the AMD as we know it today is coming to an end. Ruiz recently stepped down from his role as CEO, but kept his position as chairman of the board with the purpose of launching AMD’s Asset Light and Asset Smart strategies, which are expected to split AMD into two entities.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/AMD-Asset-Light-Smart-Ruiz,6109.html

Feel free to comment but please no flaming, stupidity or fanboyism. I am sure other people have questions and hopefully they will be answered in time. And hopefully this is a move for good not bad.

Im not being fanboyish but I do find Intel is adding the final insult by announcing some new chips as news above the AMD Split, the timing was right at AMD's lowest ebb....... Highly amusing... I am really starting to feel for AMD now as I am installing proberly one of my last AMD chips a x2 5000 bought for £34........


It reminds me of a sketch where a woman is tied to a tree in a state distress and has been "attacked" by a group of men and found by a single male..

She is greatful to be "rescued", but is taunted with - I guess this aint your lucky day....

AMD is that lady tied to the tree

 

[E3210]

AMD will not "split into two". I grow weary of seeing all the dooms day prophocies for AMD. It is just going to be outsourcing some of its resources else where. That's it. Hopefully it will mean cheaper processor in AMD's new line come Q1 of 09.

As for the GPU market... I'm pretty sure it will have no effect at all. AMD "owns" ATI, the same way that the united states is a protectorit of puerto rico. Or something like that anyway.

 

[jeb1517]

Real men have fabs.

 

[BaronMatrix]

I really don't see how they can make that work as the Fabs would need more than just AMDs business considering that contract foundries are charged less. If you look at Chartered, AMD could get 100K chips from them for (TC) less than making them themselves.

How could the fab survive on that? And then you have to assume that they would just be trading Intel for TSMC as a competitor if they do try to make chips for others.

Moving fab of Radeon or chipsets would also be difficult as GPUs are larger and have less margin while chipsets are even worse (in terms of margins).

In other words, they would have to be trying to go out of business. But then, they did say that Dirk was misquoted and that he didn't say they were selling the fabs but were defining a revolutionary way of fabbing chips.

But then with the suicidal price war they got into who knows. The smartest thing in my mind is to push Stars cores to Griffin and pump the MHz. That would give them a 2.7GHz or so mobile chip (based on improvements noted from K10 - K10.5).

And of course, to get Opteron up to 3GHz which will pretty much kill Intel on the 4P side and perhaps even 2P considering the records they're setting with K10 only at 2.5GHz. Please no Nehalem comments. MP won't show up until late next year last I heard. By then AMD should have at least HighK if not preparing for metal gates. It was said earlier this year that they would implement HighK first (D0) and then metal gates (E0). Shanghai is C0.

So basically, it's highly doubtful that a spin off would help or is even planned.

 

[jimmysmitty]

I think the more interesting thing here that no one has commented on is the fact that Hector is still with AMD and in a very powerful position, and in fact a more powerful position than Dirk.

If Hector wishes to try this strategy he has a lot of power to push it through.

Now I think it has its up sides and down sides. The up side is of course lower cost for AMD thus resulting in better profits per chip and possibly lower cost for the end user (us). The downside is quality control will not be in AMDs hands and could cause potential backlash for the end users (us again).

As I said its still just a rumor but its been one of the longest running and I am interested to see if it does happen and if it truly does go through what the side affects will be.

 

[jimmysmitty]

You are more than likely turpit.

My only real question is how will this affect AMDs CPUs if they do go with a outsourcing strategy for their CPUs.

 

[Mathos]

I really don't see how they can make that work as the Fabs would need more than just AMDs business considering that contract foundries are charged less. If you look at Chartered, AMD could get 100K chips from them for (TC) less than making them themselves.

How could the fab survive on that? And then you have to assume that they would just be trading Intel for TSMC as a competitor if they do try to make chips for others.

Moving fab of Radeon or chipsets would also be difficult as GPUs are larger and have less margin while chipsets are even worse (in terms of margins).

Actually, AMD/ATI already outsources fabbing of the Radeon HD family of GPU's to TSMC, they have for quite a while. In fact I think they also outsource Chipset manufacturing to TSMC as well. Which is why the 4850/4870 and most of the current AMD chipsets use TSMC's 55nm node. Otherwise, AMD only really has one operational fab, and thats fab36. Fab30/38 is still in the refitting process.

The main reason for the split would be to get AMD's operational costs down. But Dirks said it's not really necessary for them to drop the fabs to do that.

 

[ryman554]

Good points.

By then AMD should have at least HighK if not preparing for metal gates. It was said earlier this year that they would implement HighK first (D0) and then metal gates (E0). Shanghai is C0.

Considering that you *can't* do highK *without* a metal gate (or a gate with some other different fermi energy), you've heard wrong.

 

[jimmysmitty]

^I didn't even notice that.

I wounder what metal IBM plans to use if not Hafnium. I like that word. Hafnium. It sounds funny.

 

[ryanthesav]

I thought only good companies slit?

 

[Amiga500]

I like that word. Hafnium. It sounds funny.

Not as good as Unobtainium

 

[yomamafor1]

Considering that you *can't* do highK *without* a metal gate (or a gate with some other different fermi energy), you've heard wrong.

Further demonstrates how little he knows in fabrication technology.

 

[jimmysmitty]

Not as good as Unobtainium

Nice. I like that one too. Metals have funny names.

 

[endyen]

Good points.



Considering that you *can't* do highK *without* a metal gate (or a gate with some other different fermi energy), you've heard wrong.

It's a question of perception. Most consider anything with a higher resistance than standard gate dielectric to be high K.
Most fabs are using nitrogen to effect this at present.
Nitrided oxides are not as effective, but they fit the bill.
AMD (and Baron) is not really wrong, just slightly.

 

[Amiga500]

Nice. I like that one too. Metals have funny names.

No no no, you missed it.


Unobtain(able)ium...



Slang for the impossible dream material.

 

[jimmysmitty]

^I know.

I noticed that threads that are important or about a companies future tend to not get any attention and ones that tend to end in flame wars get a lot of attention.

 

[Amiga500]

Well the craic is all about fusion.


AMD and TSMC need to find a common manufacturing process for fusion. This "asset smart" strategy will undoubtedly play into that.

 

[Mathos]

I thought only good companies slit?

And Elves, they split too....

"Sargeant, bring me another Elf, this one split!"

Not as good as Unobtainium

And the other super metal nonamium.

 

[Reynod]

IBM's process runs faster SOI ... much faster.

No Hafnium high K gate tech there ... is there?

Please elaborate on that comparison - just asking a question because I don't know...

 

[BaronMatrix]

Good points.



Considering that you *can't* do highK *without* a metal gate (or a gate with some other different fermi energy), you've heard wrong.

That was the word. I'm not a CPU engr so I couldn't say. I do remember that AMD wil do gate first with metal so it's possible they can do HiK without. Again, I'm speculating based on AMD statements. I'll see if I can find the link.

 

[BaronMatrix]

Further demonstrates how little he knows in fabrication technology.

That was a really trollish thing to say. I found the link. It was our old friend Fudzilla.

http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6986&Itemid=1

And here's another from EETimes which mentions High K dielectrics separate from High K metal gates. The assumption therefore is that the dielectrics come first and the metal gates second. It was even hinted that they may forego them until 32nm.

http://www.eetimes.com/news/semi/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=204801525

 

[BaronMatrix]

Well the craic is all about fusion.


AMD and TSMC need to find a common manufacturing process for fusion. This "asset smart" strategy will undoubtedly play into that.

TSMC has already qualified their SOI process for 40nm and their SiGe process is also ready for 40nm. The thing about the first Fusion will be the MCM. Later on the GPU will just become the North Bridge, but before then Radeon has to move to SOI. Of course only the APUs will get SOI and I would assume the rest would stay bulk.

The beauty of AMDs arch is that all thats needed is an HT3 tunnel to PCIe. I don't know if it would be efficient to forego the tunnel when they're on the same chip though.

 

[jimmysmitty]

^For Fusion why don't they just link the GPU directly to the HT3 links? Wouldn't that be faster and more efficient for that type of CPU?

Linking the GPU to PCIe then the HT3 to PCIe would cause a bit higher latency in my mind because the PCIe is still on the NB even for AMD chips.

 

[luminaris]

Not as good as Unobtainium

This would make a kewl name for a character in WOW