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I feel like I am taking crazy pills... RE: 4850/4870

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July 17, 2008 3:26:36 PM

I just don't get it. The Radeon 4850 and 4870 get glowing reviews, yet I read tons of posts where people are having issues in a lot of games. Crashing instability and whatnot. ATI still does not have 'official' drivers for either card available on their site. They do have a hotfix driver that has had limited success, from what I can determine.

Why hasn't this been an issue for reviewers? Why is no one making a HUGE stink over the fact that these cards were knowingly shipped and sold without stable drivers? Is this some kind of fan boy cover up?

I have read over and over about how much of a better value the ATI card is, but how can that be if it doesn't work in the games I play and ATI can't provide timely driver support. The last ATI card I owned was a 9800 pro and I loved it, but ATI has always been a bit lackluster in the driver department.

NVidia on the other hand seems to be very good with driver support. At least I have never really had issues running games on the NVidia platform.

Is ATI more for the 'tweaker' crowd of people? People who don't mind having to tinker with drivers and settings to get a game to run.

Honestly, I just want to play a game without crashing or other graphical issues. I would gladly take a card that was 5 fps slower, if it was stable in the games I play. I am still running at 7900 GTX, but I have never had a single crash in any game with it.

I am looking for an upgrade, but I would need a pretty compelling reason to switch to ATI at this point. From an outsider perspective, it just seems that they have good hardware with bad software support. Am I crazy?
July 17, 2008 3:41:11 PM

I think you're overestimating the problem. Yeah I see a couple of 'Help, my 4xxx card isn't working!' threads every now and again, but I don't think it's that bad. Also take into account that almost as many people cry out for help regarding every other kind of card.

Also take into account that people who come here to Tom's are either hobbyists, enthusiasts or people who don't know much looking for help. However you look at it, those three groups of people will always have problems. Hobbyists and enthusiasts will have trouble making something work with a PC that they made because it's comprised out of so many different parts that you're almost bound to have problems somewhere along the line, even if you did everything perfectly. Factor in things like experience, OCing, age of components, bad parts, etc and you see what I mean.

Then for the people who aren't as tech savvy, they want the new and good stuff, but don't know much about it. So for those kind of people it's even harder to make things work since they aren't as up to speed on things and explanations from experts can only help so much.

Then among all those people you'll always have the fanbois, the people who never have problems, the people who always have problems, the people doing this crazy mod and the people doing this and that and so much more. There's really so many variables that it's hard to pinpoint the problem every time and even harder to pin blame on a specific product (i.e. HD 4xxx series).

You also have to remember that the HD 4xxx series is new. They only released like a few weeks ago, you have to give ATi some time. Doesn't help that ATi likes to use new technology too. You've got 55nm tech, GDDR5, a restructured architecture, a dual-GPU card w/ hardware scaling coming. ATI's got a lot of new stuff to deal with on their hands and you have to expect some problems and give them time to work it out, it's kind of how ATI's always been. Hell, I'm impressed with their progress given how much they like to fiddle with new tech. And I wouldn't say Nvidia doesn't have its fair share of problems either. Or perhaps it's more like for everything Nvidia is better at than ATi, ATi is better at some other aspect than Nvidia. So in the end, it sorta balances out anyway.
July 17, 2008 3:45:01 PM

Yes you are. It isn't being made into a big deal because people with the cards must not feel it's a big deal. In fact, why did you even make this post. You have no experience with the ATI cards yet you make a post complaining about their drivers and say their is some fan boy cover up, but your whole post sounds like a massive nvidia fan boy whine.

As far as drivers go, I think both nv and ATI are even, but ATI does actually come out with new drivers every month unlike nvidia.
July 17, 2008 3:46:02 PM

Valid question. Google and download Catalyst 8.7 Beta. No issues in Crysis, COD4, etc. Price/performance wise this is THE card to get. Why do you think Nvidia is dropping prices for GX260/280? And if you already bought one of them, they are giving you a refund check. So, this is serious business. ATI finally delivered.
July 17, 2008 3:47:43 PM

I think it's because Ati rushed the cards, that's why it's always wise to wait before purchasing, getting caught in the hype will always mean paying more and having more problems.

But anyway, the problems are surely blown out of proportion too, the number of people having trouble with their 4xxx series musn't be that much bigger than with any other card.

Anyway, in a few months the drivers will be more stable and the cards will be cheaper, so no big deal IMO.
July 17, 2008 3:48:16 PM

San Pedro said:
Yes you are. It isn't being made into a big deal because people with the cards must not feel it's a big deal. In fact, why did you even make this post. You have no experience with the ATI cards yet you make a post complaining about their drivers and say their is some fan boy cover up, but your whole post sounds like a massive nvidia fan boy whine.

As far as drivers go, I think both nv and ATI are even, but ATI does actually come out with new drivers every month unlike nvidia.


Easy there Pedro... I thought the OP brought up a valid question. I have seen numerous posts here with people having problems with the new ATI cards. I'm sure that's true for all hardware, but it is always something to think about when you're about to make a purchase.
July 17, 2008 3:52:30 PM

You are overstating the driver issues. The cards work, so you are way off base to say they don't. Also, you will find some fools who don't bother to upgrade their drivers.

If you buy a brand new graphics card, you have to expect that the first few driver releases are going to iron out some bugs - it is mandatory. That is part of the BENEFIT of buying a new card, you know that you might see performance increases of 10 or 20% across the board. On occasion you will see performance increases of much much higher as drivers are optimized.

If you don't want to deal with that, buy the same old cr@p from nvidia and you will be getting a card that has been sorted for the last 2 years. I believe they are rebadging the 8800GT as the 9800GT (and increasing the price), so that is always an option.

BTW - the 4850 is the card to get. If you go with nvidia because you believe their drivers are better, you are crazy. Nvidia has problems, just like everyone else. Buy the faster card (the 4850) and make sure you use the latest driver bundle.
a b U Graphics card
July 17, 2008 3:54:31 PM

One look, One Look, I dont think so!

No you are not crazy..... (Well I can't say that I don't know you plus I may be crazy so... If I am you are:) 

ATI has the hotfix but waiting for 8.7 to support the 4800 series.

1Haplo
July 17, 2008 4:02:56 PM

It is great that a leaked beta driver is now available that solves the issues. However didn't the 4850 hit shelves like a month ago? What drivers shipped in the box? It is one thing to ship a product and then discover that there are compatibility issues, but it is entirely different to ship a product knowing that it has issues.

From what I can gleen, some reviewers used old drivers that may have disabled some of the newer functionality when reviewing these cards. Other reviews used "press drivers", I guess I would like to have seen reviewers forced to use the driver that came in the box.

I work in the software industry, and I just found this to be disturbing. Granted, it seems to be a growing trend.

To the flamer, the reason I am posting this is that based on reviews I ordered a 4850. I then found out that it was having issues in several of the games that I played. It was only then that I discovered the driver issue (or lack there of). This prompted me to send back the card unopened. I decided that I would just stick with my current card and see how things play out.

The bottom line is that I feel like reviewers have a responsibility to alert consumers to issues, serious or not. Again, perhaps the only way this will be possible is to only review off the shelf products and use the drivers that shipped with them. Reviewing a card sent from the manufacturer with drivers they provide may lead to results inconsistent to what a consumer would have.
July 17, 2008 4:12:55 PM

i have the 4850. playing GRID and COD4 smoothly, with no single crash down. im happy with it. n im using the hotfix drivers.
a b U Graphics card
July 17, 2008 4:31:49 PM

bifford said:

Am I crazy?


Yes, creating an account to post this, you bet.
Verges on a troll thread to say the least, especially with the 'official drivers' cry of the nVidiot who survives on Betas, made even more comical considering your assumptions and lack of knowledge/experience.
And that you ask for no graphical issues and say you run a GF7900 makes me laugh.

Quote:
NVidia on the other hand seems to be very good with driver support.


Yet the most major look at driver quality found nVidia to be lacking in a far greater number than anyone one else, even when potential install base was factored in;
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080325-vista-cap...
If you have something similar from a neutral third party supporting your claim, I'd be more than happy to see it.

Quote:
At least I have never really had issues running games on the NVidia platform.


Well, and there are people in the forums who've never 'really' had issues running ATi platforms.
Personally I have had issues with both, which to me means I'm doing more with them that you are, but may that's my perception of the issue. And your running a GF7900 without noticing or knowing about the problems associated with the platform leads me to believe our levels of tolerance or even LOD are different.

To answer the underlying question to anyone reading your thread, BOTH the GTX2xx and HD4K series have their early issues, the main reasons there's more HD4K complaints than GTX2xx complaints is the same reason there were more GF8 complaints than HD2K and HD3K complaints.... more owners/sales.
July 17, 2008 4:31:50 PM

I have 2 4850's in a crossfire configuration. Here are the issues I ran into while installing

1.) Nvidia's POS drivers did not uninstall correctly, which means I had to manually uninstall their drivers. The first time I tried to install the ATI drivers, I apparently did not completely remove the Nvidia drivers and ran into a number of problems.

2.) Used Driver cleaner programs to get the last bit of nvidia's drivers off of my system.

3) Uninstalled ATI drivers, ran driver cleaner program again to remove ATI driver remnants. Rebooted, reinstalled Catalyst 8.6 and then the Hotfix.

The cards have been working fine, albeit there is still room for improvement in the drivers for these cards. Hardware also plays a role, as my 5600+ seems to be holding these cards back quite a bit.

And to the OP, sorry I had to laugh when you said Nvidia had good driver support. True, there was a time when Nvidia would release updates monthly, and it was great when they did that. For the last couple of years, however, Nvidia's driver updates (for my old hardware, at least) had been few and far between. My AMD 590 SLI, for example, got one driver update in 8 months, and it fixed very little. If you do a search, you will find allegations that Nvidia simply stops writing driver updates for their older products to encourage people to buy new cards (specifically the G92). I have no idea how true this is, but I have seen this first hand with my 590 board and the 8800 gts 320. As soon as newer hardware comes out, your hardware stops geting driver updates.

I used to be a stuanch Nvidia supporter, but since the driver problems with Vista, the lack of support during that whole issue, and the lack of support in general, I am switching over to AMD for this round. From what I've seen so far, I made a good choice.
a b U Graphics card
July 17, 2008 4:33:04 PM

Wait a second.

You sent back the card because of supposed issues with the games without even trying it first?

July 17, 2008 4:33:32 PM

I'm also have a 4850 and it has been rock solid. I just made two profiles in Catalyst Control centre to control fan speeds. One for idle and one I have manually set the fan to 65% for gaming. Haven't had a single problem with this card and I have all settings maxed for every game I have (Crysis, Mass Effect, Assasins Creed, Grid). Granted I'm still using WinXP Pro but still works awesome.
July 17, 2008 4:37:00 PM

Any person who knows a computer is not just a wizard inside a case knows that you NEVER use the drivers that come with the card. I'll be a flamer too because you are being totally illogical and biased. My first build EVER was with a 7600 GT and I had unfortunately used the packaged drivers and pretty much nothing worked on the card, guild wars, oblivion, FEAR, Doom 3, Quake 4, and HL2. Everytime I build a computer the software packaged with the video card is always one of, if not THE, earliest releases regardless of how old the card is. ATI is not shipping out cards that knowingly do not work, they are shipping cards that are slightly harder to get working, like ALL new cards. MOST of the problems people have with the 4850/70 is that they either do not have the cooling or power to run the card, or they did not completely uninstall and then totally erase the old drivers before installing new ones, NOT ATI'S FAULT. It is only your dumb fault that you sent back a 4850 unopened, if you would have put a leash on your Nvidia fanboy side then you would have had no problems in FIXING whatever compatibility issues that MIGHT have arises. Considering your entire post I actually doubt you ever even ordered a 4850, surely no one could send back a card because of RUMORED issues and not first TRY the card, no one is that foolish surely. Oh, by the way I just built a system for a friend with a 4850 and it plays everything from Fallout to Age of Conan, without ANY problems. His system specs:

E7200 @ 3.4 with an Xigmatek HDT-s1283, Abit P35, HIS 4850, 4GB Mushkin DRR2 800 Mhz RAM, Corsair 550HX 550w, Cooler Master 590, Samsung 500GB Spin point F1.
July 17, 2008 4:37:12 PM

Yeah, I sent back the card without trying it because it had an exchange for the exact same card return policy. The only way I could get a refund was to send it back unopened.
July 17, 2008 4:38:43 PM

Valid post and I thank you for it. I like reading all of the responses to it too. The 4850/4870 drivers are an issue and the cards do run hotter (80c - 90c) leading me to question how long they will last before it cooks itself to death. Other ATI cards run hot and some Nvidia cards run hot too. This is the sole reason I have not ordered a new build as of yet. I realize a lot of enthusiast like to replace a GPU every two years anyway so for them, no big deal. But we should not have to replace the card in 2 years due to heat and card failure. I like to run a build all of 4 years before replacing it.
July 17, 2008 4:39:30 PM

Bifford - enlighten us.

What were these "games" it was supposedly having problems with?

What card are you running now?

Are you paid by nvidia?
a b U Graphics card
July 17, 2008 4:42:56 PM

bifford said:
It is great that a leaked beta driver is now available that solves the issues... It is one thing to ship a product and then discover that there are compatibility issues, but it is entirely different to ship a product knowing that it has issues... Other reviews used "press drivers", I guess I would like to have seen reviewers forced to use the driver that came in the box.


LOL !! [:mousemonkey:1] OWWww my RIBS !!! :ouch: 

You really are ignorant of nVidia (especially the GF8 series) aren't you? Betas, Fixes and Lawsuits, Oh my!

Seriously troll, you're gonna have to do better than that. [:thegreatgrapeape:2]
July 17, 2008 4:44:48 PM

bifford said:
It is great that a leaked beta driver is now available that solves the issues. However didn't the 4850 hit shelves like a month ago? What drivers shipped in the box? It is one thing to ship a product and then discover that there are compatibility issues, but it is entirely different to ship a product knowing that it has issues.


They always do that. Putting my X850 to work when i bought it was a PITA. It happens with every generation. Ati or Nvidia. And Intel for that matter.

bifford said:

From what I can gleen, some reviewers used old drivers that may have disabled some of the newer functionality when reviewing these cards. Other reviews used "press drivers", I guess I would like to have seen reviewers forced to use the driver that came in the box.

I work in the software industry, and I just found this to be disturbing. Granted, it seems to be a growing trend.


They are reviewers. Not Joe Consumer. Remember the Vista Capable/Premium Ready scandal ? You should know this. It is been happening long time ago.

bifford said:

To the flamer, the reason I am posting this is that based on reviews I ordered a 4850. I then found out that it was having issues in several of the games that I played. It was only then that I discovered the driver issue (or lack there of). This prompted me to send back the card unopened. I decided that I would just stick with my current card and see how things play out.

The bottom line is that I feel like reviewers have a responsibility to alert consumers to issues, serious or not. Again, perhaps the only way this will be possible is to only review off the shelf products and use the drivers that shipped with them. Reviewing a card sent from the manufacturer with drivers they provide may lead to results inconsistent to what a consumer would have.


Your testing new hardware. There will be glitches. It is impossible to completely inform the consumer. Because the consumer reading those charts want to see benchmarks. And about the glitches, some reviewers weren't capable or putting the GPU to work. You should have informed yourself. Consumers use top notch hardware to benchmark. We mere mortals use our own PCs to play. Many have lousy chipsets, or not decent enough PSUs. Just two examples.
There are too much variables to the problems that are happening. A decent percentage i am sure might be drivers. The rest is a multitude of factors.

I am going for a CF machine. Already bought Case/PSU/HSF. Ill start shopping again in Xmas. Peace !!
July 17, 2008 4:44:55 PM

jthorn it is a simple mod in the card's bios and you can set the fan speed up higher than 10% and then never worry about exceeding 70c, also these cards can run fine without any problems what so ever at anything below 100c.
July 17, 2008 4:45:52 PM

Can we tone down the personal attacks? I am not paid by nvidia. I am just a Joe that has had a lot of bad consumer experiences, specifically with electronics.
July 17, 2008 4:49:16 PM

Then buy the damn card again and IF you have a problem let US fix it for you like we do everyone else, then you can be fat and happy with your new kick ass card... just out of curiosity what are your system specs, we will tell you if something is wrong with them and the 4850.
July 17, 2008 4:55:04 PM

System is:
Gigabyte X48-DS4
2 Gig of Kingston Hyperx RAM at 1066 dual channel.
Zalman ZM750-HP PSU
NZXT Tempest Case
2 Raptor drives in raid 0 (older raptor, not raptor x)
Core2 E8400 cpu with zalman 97000cu heat sink.
July 17, 2008 4:59:46 PM

Plenty of power and cooling, just use a third party program to get ALL of the drivers out, or do the best thing and reinstall windows and you will be fine.
July 17, 2008 5:00:39 PM

You didn't answer the question.

What were the games you were worried about?

edit: Bifford posted link
July 17, 2008 5:02:15 PM

Gigabyte make good cards.

It is all reference design anyway - provided you do the fan hotfix it will be a great card.
July 17, 2008 5:04:58 PM

I mainly play LOTRO, but I also play Crysis.
July 17, 2008 7:10:34 PM

I'm surprised at how smooth the launch went tbh. Every other ATI card I've bought at release had pretty big driver problems for at least a couple months. I haven't had a single issue yet with my 4870.
a b U Graphics card
July 17, 2008 8:03:48 PM

When the G80 came out, the 8800GTX wasnt that much faster than the 1950xtx at the time in alot of games. No DX10 support. Problems, problems problems. It was a new arch. It was expected. A new arch is unrried in every situation, with differing HW. The 4xxx series is totally new, but different nough to have a few issues, and they do. Thats to be expected. The G200 series from nVidia is less a change in design from the previous version (g92), and thus has had less driver problems, but also will show less positive growth with improvements. Its just the way it is with new gpus, no matter what color or flavor you buy
July 17, 2008 8:56:18 PM

nVidia has been far from superb in driver support.

Apparently you have not done much reading over the past 12-18 months?

or I am sure you would have noticed the numerous "Display Driver Stopped Responding and Has Recovered - nvlddmkm.sys nVidia Driver" error posts...

This has been an issue for months...

Not to mention their "challenges" in the motherboard driver/bios arena...

Video corruption anyone?

It is fairly normal for both ATI and nVidia to have small issues upon release of new hardware. Then over the following six months they are fine tuned and optimzed.
a b U Graphics card
July 17, 2008 9:49:16 PM

Not to mention the still problematic nView multi-monitor support.
July 18, 2008 12:58:15 AM

TheGreatGrapeApe said:
Not to mention the still problematic nView multi-monitor support.


I am a Ati fan, but lemme tell ya one thing. Ati Multi monitor support aint that good also.
a b U Graphics card
July 18, 2008 1:36:40 AM

radnor said:
I am a Ati fan, but lemme tell ya one thing. Ati Multi monitor support aint that good also.


True, I've always prefered UltraMon to either actually, however right now ATi can at least do multi-monitor gaming and video playback well enough whereas nV's nView still has some gaming issues, and issues when panels are set at different resolutions and or refresh rates, it chugs incredibly under those situations. I have not heard of a fix yet, and the driver release mentions features only available to the NVS and Quadro lines. Hydravision has its foibles for sure, but nView is now the lesser of the two when before it was easily the better.
July 18, 2008 3:55:55 AM

My 4870 is at the highest ccc will let it go.it was tested and passed at 790/1100 with temps at 78c idle and 83 at load.
July 18, 2008 4:16:38 AM

Oh well, you guys got me for sure. I just had to test it out before shipping. Reinstalled Win XP Pro and SP3, installed Catalyst 8.7 beta. Did the fan fix, and set fan to 45%. I was getting idle temp of 60 degrees.

Installed crysis and updates. Ran Crysis, was really excited when it detected High for system. Was really bummed when it crashed before I could even make it to the beach. Screen went artifact on me, had to hit the reset button.

Then I tried LOTRO, seemed to play fine for about 15 minutes. Then I got a VPU error, which it recovered from. However, minutes later I started to see strange flashes of artifacts. Exited LOTRO and checked temp, but it was only 76.
a b U Graphics card
July 18, 2008 4:36:59 AM

Try bumping the fan up higher just to see if it is temps. It may have been only 76 when you checked it, but the temps can drop amazingly quickly as soon as the load is gone.
July 18, 2008 5:07:11 AM

copasetic said:
I'm surprised at how smooth the launch went tbh. Every other ATI card I've bought at release had pretty big driver problems for at least a couple months. I haven't had a single issue yet with my 4870.


I think this had a lot to do with ATI delaying the release. I you remember back during Computex there were some stories published about ATI's manufacturing partners being pissed that ATI would not let them release the 4850's even though there were 10's of thousands of them sitting in warehouses waiting to be shipped. I think we should really applaud ATI here for at least trying to delay the launch until the drivers were right.

It looks like they are doing the same thing with the 4870X2 as it has been reported that the hardware has been finalized for months and the release was pushed back to allow more time to get the drivers right. Let's hope that the retailers don't jump the gun again like they did with the 4850 and 4870 and we actually see a clean launch this time.
July 18, 2008 6:01:51 AM

TheGreatGrapeApe said:
LOL !! [:mousemonkey:1] OWWww my RIBS !!! :ouch: 

You really are ignorant of nVidia (especially the GF8 series) aren't you? Betas, Fixes and Lawsuits, Oh my!

Seriously troll, you're gonna have to do better than that. [:thegreatgrapeape:2]


good call ape u get some cookie!

--------> (::) )))))

Seriously why are people even bringing this up this happens to practically every new card that comes out, it's just part of life...

same ting happened to the 8 series, they had issues too, same intensity as the 4 series is having..it's not that bad, people just complain b/c they can't have their cake on a silver platter, sell it and make a profit and find time to eat it too...
July 18, 2008 1:00:56 PM

If you bought a new television and it wouldn't play some channels (one of which happened to be your favorite channel), would you still be this understanding? Really what this all boils down to, is that I don't get why you guys are soo willing to accept the amount of issues that tend to plague new video cards.

If I was able to play and enjoy my games, I wouldn't have an issue. If it was just a matter of performance being lower than advertised until optimized drivers came out, I could deal with that. However flakey and unstable, I can not deal with. Honestly, it makes me wonder how many of you are on-line gamers. I understand that if Crysis crashes, it is annoying, but really nbd. Simply reload last save and move on. On the other hand, if I crash in LOTRO while playing the main tank in a dungeon....

I WAS ingnorant to all the problems with the 8800 series of GPU. I haven't really needed a video card in a while. My comments on NVidia were based solely on my personal experiences with the 6xxx and 7xxx line of cards. I bought a 7900 GTX at launch and have never had a single issue with it. I guess that means I should just STHU and keep it, right? Or only buy tech that is like a year old and almost completely obsolete, but proven.

Kind of sad, right? By the time they get all of the kinks worked out with this generation, they will probably have already released the next generation. As a consumer, you probably only have about a 6 month window to feel like you have a top shelf product. If it takes 2 months to get stable drivers, you have missed out on a third of time.

At the end of the day, I just want to be able to play my games. Show me a stable/reliable card that doesn't need a lot of tinkering to make run correctly and that is the card I will pay my hard earned money for.
July 18, 2008 1:18:05 PM

bifford said:
If you bought a new television and it wouldn't play some channels (one of which happened to be your favorite channel), would you still be this understanding? Really what this all boils down to, is that I don't get why you guys are soo willing to accept the amount of issues that tend to plague new video cards.


Most of us are techies or have a techie background. A bug, a problem, something inconsistent, even that might be frustrating on the first few minutes, can be enjoyable afterward. We like fiddling, tunning, tweaking and all those good works the geeks invented.

bifford said:

If I was able to play and enjoy my games, I wouldn't have an issue. If it was just a matter of performance being lower than advertised until optimized drivers came out, I could deal with that. However flakey and unstable, I can not deal with. Honestly, it makes me wonder how many of you are on-line gamers. I understand that if Crysis crashes, it is annoying, but really nbd. Simply reload last save and move on. On the other hand, if I crash in LOTRO while playing the main tank in a dungeon....



Ever played Wow? There were several parts that my GPU would just crash. Yes i was the MT on a 40 man raid. its Blackwing Lair Vs ATi X850. Solution ? yup, found one. Just underclocked my GPU/RAM and it ran nicely. Its was not my GPU fault, but Blizzard and Ati fault. Even so, it was a nice solution while i waited for drivers/WoW Patches (witch come always Soon). As i said in 1, we like messing with our Hardware.


bifford said:

I WAS ingnorant to all the problems with the 8800 series of GPU. I haven't really needed a video card in a while. My comments on NVidia were based solely on my personal experiences with the 6xxx and 7xxx line of cards. I bought a 7900 GTX at launch and have never had a single issue with it. I guess that means I should just STHU and keep it, right? Or only buy tech that is like a year old and almost completely obsolete, but proven.


No, but give a month or so until the new driver revisions come out.


bifford said:

Kind of sad, right? By the time they get all of the kinks worked out with this generation, they will probably have already released the next generation. As a consumer, you probably only have about a 6 month window to feel like you have a top shelf product. If it takes 2 months to get stable drivers, you have missed out on a third of time.

At the end of the day, I just want to be able to play my games. Show me a stable/reliable card that doesn't need a lot of tinkering to make run correctly and that is the card I will pay my hard earned money for.


I don't replace my card every 6 months. This one (X850) already has some years behind it, and still running great. It is gonan be exchanged for a CF/SLI setup, in due time. And whatever the money you spend, you cant play all games at top maximum quality with everything maxed, at 40+ FPS. Don't think consoles play everything perfectly fine, they don't.
Its even worse than in PC. They run everything out of the box, sure, but in quality, flexibility and pure performance, they lack. Don't tell me about Cell, nobody wants to code games for it.


Some games are just hogs (Crysis) and will never run great. But hey, if you like to buy a product (Like a TV) and want it to work out of the box, without worrying much about it, Its hard to do that in PC world. Something is always bursting up. Wait a bit ,just don't buy top-end, or products that have launched during the month.
July 18, 2008 4:02:21 PM

Wow my friend plays Crysis and LOTRO with his 4850 and has never had a problem... well one of his RAM sticks died last week, but he should not have used SLI memory for his first RAM overclocking session!
July 18, 2008 4:15:47 PM

Which drivers is he using?
July 18, 2008 4:35:13 PM



Should do it i guess. I went for the Corsair TX750 (60 amp on the 12v rail), but hey that Zalman seem pretty good also.I Don't know who is the maker, but seems fine enough for 1 4850. Hell, seems fine enough for 2 4850. Maybe you just got a bad card. It can happen, its called a DOA (Dead on Arrival).
July 18, 2008 4:45:59 PM

Try Catalyst 8.6. 8.7 is still Beta.
July 18, 2008 4:47:29 PM

How much does mine have? Maybe I don't know how to read it, but it looks like 4 x 20 on +12v = 80 amps. If you discount the CPU portion, 60 amps.
July 18, 2008 5:06:34 PM

bifford said:
Oh well, you guys got me for sure. I just had to test it out before shipping. Reinstalled Win XP Pro and SP3, installed Catalyst 8.7 beta. Did the fan fix, and set fan to 45%. I was getting idle temp of 60 degrees.

Installed crysis and updates. Ran Crysis, was really excited when it detected High for system. Was really bummed when it crashed before I could even make it to the beach. Screen went artifact on me, had to hit the reset button.

Then I tried LOTRO, seemed to play fine for about 15 minutes. Then I got a VPU error, which it recovered from. However, minutes later I started to see strange flashes of artifacts. Exited LOTRO and checked temp, but it was only 76.


Weirdness I have not ran into any major issues with the 8.7 beta driver, Played LOTRO, Crysis, Tabula Rasa, Supreme Commander, Mass Effect, COD4, Jade Empire, Never Winter Nights 2 (It does crash but thats the game not the card, it crashed on the 8800GT also), Sins of a Solar Empire, and Oblivion.

I am running a modified core of Vista x64 but I can't see a x64 Vista driver being more stable than a 32bit XP driver.

What is the temp inside your case when your running the games?, it might not be the card overheating but with all the heat that is being spit out into the case. It may be causing your ambient temps to rise, causing something else to overheat.

Also on my 4870, setting the fan at 45% my cards temps are fine at around 65' degrees, but with the smaller heatsink and fan on the 4850 I think you might want to up it a bit, maybe 60% or higher till the driver issues with the fan is resolved.
!