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First amd/ati build: share your opinions please!

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July 1, 2008 3:55:31 PM

Hey guys I'm planning to do my first pc build before summer ends, I wanted to list parts for the build and to tell if I'm missing anything as it would be my first time building =D

As for the parts I chosen newegg(dot)com since its easy to navigate and there are reviews for individual parts ;D


($39) ASUS Black 20X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 20X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 14X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA 20X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe

($149.99) COOLER MASTER RC-690-KKA1-GP Black SECC/ ABS ATX Mid Tower Computer Case Real Power Pro 550W Power Supply

($84.99) Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3500320AS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive

($249.99) Acer AL2216Wbd Black 22" 5ms Widescreen LCD Monitor with HDCP support - Retail

($189.99) GIGABYTE GA-MA790FX-DS5 AM2+/AM2 AMD 790FX ATX Ultra Durable II AMD Motherboard - Retail

($389.99) (2x) ASUS EAH4850/HTDI/512M Radeon HD 4850 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail

($24.99) Microsoft ZG7-00025 Black PS/2 Wired Standard Desktop 500 Mouse Included - Retail

($95.99) OCZ Platinum 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model OCZ2P10664GK - Retail

($81.99) AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+ Brisbane 2.6GHz Socket AM2 65W Dual-Core Black Edition Processor - Retail

($99.99) Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium SP1 64-bit English for System Builders 1pk DSP OEI DVD - OEM

($42.99) Scythe KM01-BK "KAZE MASTER" 5.25" Bay Fan Controller

($35.96) (4x) Scythe SY1225SL12SH 120mm "Slipstream" Case Fan - Retail

(49.99) Tuniq Tower 120 P4 & K8 CPU Cooler - Retail

All comes to $1,546.83+ $70.83 for shipping= $1,617.26


Now I have couple questions.....

1. Will the 550w Cooler Master included power supply included with case be enough for all this? (it has 2x 6pin)

2. What does System Builders 1pk ***"DSP OEI"*** DVD......I understand its just for single install but dsp and oei? T_T

3. I saw people "lapping" their heat sinks to get better surface between it and the cpu......is it worth 4hours doing this......would I see any reasonable temperature drops?




Also I picked amd 5000+ black edition beacuse am3 suppose to come out in the end of year (wikipedia:am3) So I fought Ill stick to this and wait for new am3 45nm cpus to come out since they are backwards am2 socked compatible.....what you guys think? Stick with old cpu and wait or get amd quad-core (9950 be 2.6ghz)
July 1, 2008 4:04:29 PM

Here is the system requirements for 4850 (sapphire):
_________________
System Requirements

–PCI Express® based PC is required with one X16 lane graphics slot available on the motherboard

–450 Watt or greater power supply with 75 Watt 6-pin PCI Express® power connector recommended (550 Watt and two 6-pin connectors for ATI CrossFireX™ technology in dual mode)

–Certified power supplies are recommended. Refer to http://ati.amd.com/certifiedPSU for a list of Certified products

–1GB of system memory

–Installation software requires CD-ROM drive

–DVD playback requires DVD drive

–Blu-ray™ / HD DVD playback requires Blu-ray / HD DVD drive

–For a complete ATI CrossFireX™ system, a second ATI Radeon™ HD 4850 graphics card, an ATI CrossFireX Ready motherboard and one ATI CrossFireX Bridge Interconnect cable per board (included) are required.
________________

Honestly power supplies provided with cases are bad. I don't know about this one but you should get the cooler master cm 690 without psu for ~75$ and get a corsair tx650 or tx750 power supply with the balance.
July 1, 2008 4:16:45 PM

georgy said:
Here is the system requirements for 4850 (sapphire):
_________________
System Requirements

–PCI Express® based PC is required with one X16 lane graphics slot available on the motherboard

–450 Watt or greater power supply with 75 Watt 6-pin PCI Express® power connector recommended (550 Watt and two 6-pin connectors for ATI CrossFireX™ technology in dual mode)

–Certified power supplies are recommended. Refer to http://ati.amd.com/certifiedPSU for a list of Certified products

–1GB of system memory

–Installation software requires CD-ROM drive

–DVD playback requires DVD drive

–Blu-ray™ / HD DVD playback requires Blu-ray / HD DVD drive

–For a complete ATI CrossFireX™ system, a second ATI Radeon™ HD 4850 graphics card, an ATI CrossFireX Ready motherboard and one ATI CrossFireX Bridge Interconnect cable per board (included) are required.
________________

Honestly power supplies provided with cases are bad. I don't know about this one but you should get the cooler master cm 690 without psu for ~75$ and get a corsair tx650 or tx750 power supply with the balance.



so 550wats should be bare minimum.....thanks very much!!! :D 
Related resources
July 1, 2008 4:34:25 PM

This list is a little dated, but is still a good place to start when looking for a PSU. CoolerMaster PSUs don't do so well here. I didn't like the one I had IRL either. Choose something from Tier-3 or better.
http://www.tomswiki.com/page/Tiered+PSU+Listings?t=anon

If you want to Crossfire two high-end cards, be sure you don't skimp on the +12v amperage. You'll probably be well-served by a quality model in the 650W-750W range.
July 1, 2008 4:40:49 PM

When you spend nearly 5 times as much on your GPUs than your CPU, don't you think you're just asking for a CPU bottleneck?
July 1, 2008 4:44:38 PM

Onus said:
This list is a little dated, but is still a good place to start when looking for a PSU. CoolerMaster PSUs don't do so well here. I didn't like the one I had IRL either. Choose something from Tier-3 or better.
http://www.tomswiki.com/page/Tiered+PSU+Listings?t=anon

If you want to Crossfire two high-end cards, be sure you don't skimp on the +12v amperage. You'll probably be well-served by a quality model in the 650W-750W range.



True....its just the good deal.....this case w/550w psu is $150 and same exact one w/o psu is $100 so it comes to $50 for psu.....Ill look at them at newegg.....I just don't want to hurt my wallet getting beafy psu with so many connector that I wont use.......I need 24pin for mobo + 4pin for cpu if im correct, 2x 6pin for cards, then 4x molex for 120mm cans and one sata for 500gig hd :bounce: 
July 1, 2008 4:44:46 PM

I would wait for the 9950 BE, since AMD has said that it is supposed to be overclockable. (3DMARK score >12K)
July 1, 2008 4:46:02 PM

rodney_ws said:
When you spend nearly 5 times as much on your GPUs than your CPU, don't you think you're just asking for a CPU bottleneck?


Perhaps, but by getting an AM2+ motherboard, the OP can step up to one of the Phenom 2950 BE CPUs when they come out. That should take care of any CPU bottlenecking.
July 1, 2008 4:47:19 PM

rodney_ws said:
When you spend nearly 5 times as much on your GPUs than your CPU, don't you think you're just asking for a CPU bottleneck?


Yes I kno, I wanted to get this cpu and wait for 45nm am3 cpus that will come out this year (wikipedia: am3). I dont think I need $250 top of the line amd quad core when they are bad overclockers and they simply run hot......I'd rather wait for something else :) 
July 1, 2008 4:49:41 PM

the last resort said:
I would wait for the 9950 BE, since AMD has said that it is supposed to be overclockable. (3DMARK score >12K)

Yes I read about it also, 3.1ghz over clock looks promising! :)  It suppose to cost same at 9850BE.....I really would like to wait for the am3 to come out rather than getting those power guzzlers that have 140w rating lol! :whistle: 
July 1, 2008 4:57:57 PM

Although I understand the angle the OP is coming from, it's definitely not the path I'd be taking... ESPECIALLY considering how poorly existing AM2 boards supported Phenom. Weren't a lot of people left out in the cold with that? I guess I'm just a little puzzled any time I see an all-new AMD build... just as I'd have said the same thing about Intel pre-C2D.
July 1, 2008 5:02:19 PM

rodney_ws said:
Although I understand the angle the OP is coming from, it's definitely not the path I'd be taking... ESPECIALLY considering how poorly existing AM2 boards supported Phenom. Weren't a lot of people left out in the cold with that? I guess I'm just a little puzzled any time I see an all-new AMD build... just as I'd have said the same thing about Intel pre-C2D.



True......I picked to use amd because of the compability (I have no idea how to spell that rofl) *_* I read new am3 cpus will be supported by am2+ mobos (780-790fx chipset)....I didn't want to go with intel because of their prices and they suppose to introduce new socket soon so it be like building pc and finding out you need to get new motherboard and spend extra money or you can say bye bye of future upgrade to new cpus!
July 1, 2008 5:07:12 PM

Jpain said:
Hello !

1. Save money and take one 4870, ok?
http://techreport.com/articles.x/14990/12



Lol I seen that.......I'm thinking I can get 4870 and save money but then if I want to get another one I need to buy whole new psu.........I don't look at crysis since I played whole game on my laptop on low settings xD
July 1, 2008 5:09:52 PM

+1 for rodney_ws. Throw in some extra $110 and go for an E8400.
If your budget is really tight, save $80 ordering one 4870 instead of two 4850. You should get a much more balanced system.
July 1, 2008 5:10:09 PM

The cpu won't be a bottlenck at the resolutions he'll be playing at.
July 1, 2008 5:12:35 PM

One of the options I'm contemplating for my next computer in a couple of weeks is one very similar to Alvine's, for the same reasons (5000+ BE, but a single 4850/4870, and then a 45 nm Phenom down the line). So he's not alone.

Personally, I'm waiting for word and reviews on the new mobos with SB750, but I'm still a bit worried about actual compatibility, regardless of what AMD is saying now. When will the 45 nm Phenoms be out anyway?

Regardless, since I've been without a gaming-capable computer for quite a while I will be playing some older games for a while, Age of Empires III, C&C 3, maybe Supreme Commander, etc. Waiting for Starcraft II, like everyone else...

I also intend to get a 1920x1200 screen.
July 1, 2008 5:12:58 PM

galta said:
+1 for rodney_ws. Throw in some extra $110 and go for an E8400.
If your budget is really tight, save $80 ordering one 4870 instead of two 4850. You should get a much more balanced system.

yeah Ill get 4870.........and laters get new psu that will have 4x 6pin and another 4870 :) 
July 1, 2008 5:15:28 PM

p7389 said:
One of the options I'm contemplating for my next computer in a couple of weeks is one very similar to Alvine's, for the same reasons (5000+ BE, but a single 4850/4870, and then a 45 nm Phenom down the line). I'm waiting for word and reviews on the new mobos with SB750, but I'm still a bit worried about actual compatibility, regardless of what AMD is saying now. When will the 45 nm Phenoms be out anyway?

Regardless, since I've been without a gaming-capable computer for quite a while I will be playing some older games for a while, Age of Empires III, C&C 3, maybe Supreme Commander, etc.



Yeah wikipedia.org search: am3.........it says am3 will be compatible with bios update........you simply can't put am2 into am3 mobo with ddr3 since the cpu does not have the memory controller or something like that.....am3 cpus will have integrated memory buffer I think that what they call it for both ddr2 and ddr3 :) 
July 1, 2008 5:16:33 PM

Ogdin said:
The cpu won't be a bottlenck at the resolutions he'll be playing at.


So the higher resolution the bigger cpu bottleneck? I just want to play games at 22inch resolution lol :)  currently playing cod at 800x600 on my laptop lol :D 
July 1, 2008 5:19:05 PM

I understand your concern with intel and the new motherboard but I think you will have the same problem with AMD. As rodney pointed out, AM2 board poorly supported Phenom when they came out.
July 1, 2008 5:23:40 PM

I just don't think I'd be basing my next build on what I read on Wikipedia. Hey, to each his own :)  Assuming what's in that Wikipedia article is 100% true, the build will have decent upgrade potential. However, I'm not 100% confident in AMD after the whole Phenom compatibility thing.
July 1, 2008 5:24:24 PM

jedi940 said:
I understand your concern with intel and the new motherboard but I think you will have the same problem with AMD. As rodney pointed out, AM2 board poorly supported Phenom when they came out.



true but overall amd is cheaper so my wallet wont hurt that much to get am3 motherboard if it really wont be compatible..........of course I wont get am3 cpu but wait for bios updates and such lol........give it a month after release ;p
July 1, 2008 5:27:08 PM

I don't fully understand the logic behind getting a 790FX board now only to buy an AM3 board and CPU later this year. Seems like you are just throwing away $200.00 on the AM2+ board if you are already planning on upgrading to an AM3 this year. You could step down to a 780G or a 770 and save yourself about $100.00+. I went with the 790FX so I could upgrade to the Phenom 9950 which is AM2+ compatible.

You have a very similar build to me. First, the 4850 will be bottlenecked by the CPU. Mine actually is. I would go with the DFI 790FX board over the Gigabyte. Gigabyte's 790FX has some issues that need to be worked out. I have an MSI 790FX, which has been good for the most part, but its not a very good overclocker, I have found. Very sensitive to FSB (or reference clock) increases. DFI's is not.

Don't get the Coolermaster PSU. It's a poor quality PSU. Remember, this is the component that is going to power everything in your computer. If you get a crappy PSU, then your computer will run crappy...if at all. I know the PSU comes with the case, so switch the case if you have to. You won't regret it.

I'm running a Corsair HX520W which is certified to run one 4870 or one 4850. It may be able to run two 4850's, but the power consumption of the 4800 series is pretty high. The Corsair 550VX is certified for CrossFire with the 4850, so maybe that's the way to go. You can get a 550VX on the cheap through Buy.com.

That's my 2 cents...
July 1, 2008 5:34:35 PM

stabgotham said:
I don't fully understand the logic behind getting a 790FX board now only to buy an AM3 board and CPU later this year. Seems like you are just throwing away $200.00 on the AM2+ board if you are already planning on upgrading to an AM3 this year.


True. Something to think about.
July 1, 2008 5:41:19 PM

p7389 said:
True. Something to think about.

No, according to AMD AM2+ boards will support AM3 processors. Assuming that information is true, the OP will have a clean upgrade path to a new processor generation.
July 1, 2008 5:55:40 PM

rodney_ws said:
No, according to AMD AM2+ boards will support AM3 processors. Assuming that information is true, the OP will have a clean upgrade path to a new processor generation.


About those assumptions, knowing I've been guilty on occasion, AMD said that AM2 motherboards would support an AM2+ chip, yet a lot of motherboard companies choose not to support the needed BIOS change. I can foresee a similar thing happening when AM3 comes out. AMD says support is there for the AM3 chip, but the motherboard companies won't make the needed BIOS, preferring to sell new motherboards.

As to someone's comment about the upcoming boards with the SB750 chip, I'm waiting for that myself, with the intention of pairing it with a 2950 BE chip. it won't be anywhere as fast as my Intel gaming computer, but will make a fairly good business computer without a lot of cost involved.
July 1, 2008 5:59:49 PM

I agree with Sailer completely... AM3 compatibility is not guaranteed... AMD has said it will work... but Intel also said that Netburst was the wave of the future.... soo....
July 1, 2008 6:47:35 PM

@Stabgotham
Maybe I didn't make this clear but the whole idea of going with AMD for me was the 790fx is the future upgrade to am3 cpu, not buying whole new mobo but just to replace the cpu

@rodney_ws
Yes I know the AM3 compatibility is not guaranteed but in case of intel you have to get new mobo when nehalem cpus will come out......I just wanted to future proof myself and use motherboard for quite some time......


Summarizing........the game with am2+ motherboards and upcoming am3 processors sounds good but its not 100% sure if you don't have to replace whole motherboard......Idk should I take risk or wait for am3 mobos and cpus to come out giving bigger probability that they will work...
July 1, 2008 8:04:50 PM

Just go with an intel board, Looking at some of the AMD board look old and outdated.
July 1, 2008 9:29:46 PM

Well it is certainly a risk. If you can hold out, I'd wait for AM3, but if you are on a timeline, then I guess you have to settle and go for AM2+ and hope and pray that the motherboard makers will release a BIOS update that will allow AM3 CPU's to run on it.
July 1, 2008 11:21:13 PM

stabgotham said:
Well it is certainly a risk. If you can hold out, I'd wait for AM3, but if you are on a timeline, then I guess you have to settle and go for AM2+ and hope and pray that the motherboard makers will release a BIOS update that will allow AM3 CPU's to run on it.


Yeah that's what I will do......I'm just debating what manufacturer I should go with for mother board......
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=E...

Dfi Lanparty ($134) Msi ($149) Gigabyte ($189) Asus ($190-$210)
July 2, 2008 4:42:18 AM

Let me preface this by saying that I use the MSI version and have not had any experience with any of the others, but I have read a ton about them. I did a lot of reading before my purchase.

So...truth be told...they all have their issues, but from an overclocking standpoint, the DFI seems to be the best, yet also the cheapest. At least, that's what I have read. Obviously, ASUS is the big dog of the bunch, both in name and price. I have used ASUS boards in the past and they are easy to work with. The MSI board is also very easy to work, but my board is just sensitive it seems to overclocking the FSB (or reference clock). You can pretty much remove the Jetway board from your options since it does not support Phenom FX, which if I am correct, is what the new AM3 Phenom's will be.

If I had to do it all over again, I'd probably go with the ASUS board, but I really feel it is just overpriced. The DFI is the sweet spot for this chipset. Additionally, the new 790FX boards with SB750 are about to be released which are supposed to be better than the current 790FX offerings.

Just some things for you to ponder...did I help make your decision as clear as mud or what??
July 2, 2008 10:58:56 AM

From looking at the review's for the gigabyte board you've linked, it didn't seem to handle quad core's very well. and this was recently from a board that's been out for a while. I don't understand how a board shipped 7+months after release would ship with the original barely working bios. Just a heads up to you while you consider the long time future of that particular board.
July 2, 2008 4:42:36 PM

@Stabgotham

Yes thanks m8 you make it clear :D 

Indeed MSI has the sweet spot but the sata ports may be the problem when you have longer card (Asus has the angled sata ports)......And I picked up Asus but I might wait for new "SB750" to come out.......I believe Asus will give more support to the am3 since its bigger company...You have no idea when then "SB750" are coming out? Depends on price I may pick that up or the current mobos prices will drop :) 
July 2, 2008 4:47:05 PM

Steil said:
From looking at the review's for the gigabyte board you've linked, it didn't seem to handle quad core's very well. and this was recently from a board that's been out for a while. I don't understand how a board shipped 7+months after release would ship with the original barely working bios. Just a heads up to you while you consider the long time future of that particular board.



Thanks for sharing, Gigabyte is quite overpriced as well.....more pricey than Asus......I think I will go with Asus.....pray in brand lol and I'm not getting current quad cores but wait for am3 and 45nm manufacturing and pray Asus will release bios to support them hah xD My plan kinda changed......would get 4870 instead of two 4850's and get 5000+black edition and run on that untill amd comes up with am3 quads :) 
!