I was hoping someone could spot any problems like compatability for this specific system.

This is the basic build, but I'm going to use some old parts: optical drives, power supply(Ultra LS 600), 3780 Graphics card overclocked 3870 http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspag [...] 4053242087 I will still be using XP.

These are the parts to go with it

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applica [...] No=3574211

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applica [...] CatId=1510

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applica [...] 1-9062%20A

I found out that it has only one IDE connection so I have to buy http://www.tigerdirect.com/applica [...] &CatId=139 so I can use my old optical drives on the IDE connector.

Since it's a new drive, I'm going to have to boot with no OS. I was hoping it would point to the optical drive so XP could load.


It's a little expensive, but I'll be set to be upgrade for awhile if need be. I hope I don't get divorced over this.

Both HD are IDE and so are the optical so I chose to change the HDs because SATA will improve my performance anyway. Changing the optical drives will not really help me.

I wanted to keep the 2 opticals which will take both IDE connections from the board.

I'd keep the best optical and best IDE HDD to go with the new SATA HDD. You can actually use a HDD as a "virtual optical drive" if you want to copy DVD to DVD, etc.

Intel DX48BT2 review: http://xbitlabs.com/articles/mainb [...] 48bt2.html
There are no real performance advantages to DDR3 RAM and Motherboard systems that can justify the higher costs.
DDR3 SDRAM: Revolution or Evolution? http://xbitlabs.com/articles/memory/display/ddr3.html
DDR3-1600 SDRAM: Technological Breakthrough or Marketing Trick? http://xbitlabs.com/articles/memor [...] -1600.html

The X48 and DDR2 options are really the better bang for the buck vs X48/DDR3. The P45 (without of without Crossfire) has an even better $$/performance ratio for all monitor resolutions below 1920x1200.

Hmmm...it looks like the basic problem they have is that you can't overclock. Am I missing anything else?

Since the memory is 1600, I should see improvement. What I want to do with this system is get in cheap(well, as cheap as I can) and not be outdated soon.

ZipZoomFly has the Asus P5Q Deluxe P45 motherboard for $184.00.

Want to talk about being outdated soon? Just around the corner: http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipse [...] i=3326&p=1
See improvements? How much is 3-5% improvement worth to you?
See improvements? Maybe, depending on how you use the PC. Certainly not in 3D gaming at medium or high res with high quality settings and AA/AF on in most games where the HD3870 will be the bottleneck to higher performance (as one example where DDR3 won't help performance).

How would you get access to that improved performance? By raising the bandwidth of the CPU to match (as in overclocking).
At stock speed the E8400 has a FSB bandwidth of 10666 MB/s. At max OC of 4.0Ghz it has FSB bandwidth of 14200 MB/s.
In dual channel mode DDR3 1600MHz (PC3 12800) has a FSB bandwidth of 25600 MB/s (12800*2). RAM can push 25600 MB/s at the CPU which can accept 10666 MB/s at stock, 14200 MB/s at top OC. There are some tricks you can use to give the CPU more bandwith such as lowering the multiplier and raising the FSB. It's a balancing act used to get the very best performance available from a given set of hardware. Just the tip of the whole FSB performance and we haven't even yet mentioned CAS Latency and other items.

And you thought the HD/optical drive issue was complicated.

The "Pentium" you mention would be the 800Mhz FSB dual core E2000 65nm family of budget CPUs topping out with E2220 @ 2.4Ghz for $90 which is reaching EOL (end of life) in Q3 2008 (this quarter).
The only possible upgrades you could get would be the C2D E8600 3.3Ghz CPU (due out this quarter) or the other already released 45NM Wolfdale dual cores and Yorkfield quad cores.

There isnt much of a CPU upgrade path beyond what the E8400 (with overclocking) is going to get you. If you want to know what RAM is best matched with the E8400 you can work that out for yourself. At max OC of 4.0Ghz it has FSB bandwidth of 14200 MB/s. DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) or DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) would get you the theoretical RAM bandwidths of 12800 and 17000 in dual channel mode. There is even DDR3 1066 (PC3 8500) RAM for around $100 for 2GB but it comes with a CL of 7 which would make it slower than CL5 DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) which you could get 4GB for about the same price. http://xbitlabs.com/articles/memor [...] html#sect0

I don't want you to think Im against DDR3 RAM. It is technologically superior and it has dropped in price from $500 for 2GB to under $200 for enthusiast grade speeds and latencies. I will recommend it for people whose budget (and overclocking objectives) can support the higher cost for the small performance advantage it gives them.

Maybe this is a good time for you to mention what you're upgrading from (besides the PSU, HD3870, HDD & optical drives) and how you plan to use the upgrades - as in how you use your computer, what tasks you do, what size monitor you plan on using etc. And what your total budget would be like to finish all the upgrades you want. I know you were thinking $750 for the MB/RAM, CPU and Case.

The 4k system looked crazy. Green piping? I have no idea what that is.

Anyway, I looked at the memory you linked and while my system will not fully utilize this now, this is almost the same price as the one I'm thinking about with a fuzz better latency. http://www.tigerdirect.com/applica [...] etailspecs

If I could get 4 gigs at that price, I'd jump on it.

I'm looking to game now and my Dualcore 4200, 2 gigs or PC3200, with an ATI 2600 isn't cutting it much anymore. I want to use these in the new system

Acer 22" monitor($160- 3000:1 contrast - I'm proud of that buy)
2nd monitor is a CRT for Ventrillo + server admin so I can see it in game
my 2 optical drives are fine, but they're IDE so that will take up my one connection from MB
sound card is basic, but works just fine

Let's say I keep the motherboard. For around $850 total, what would you change about my build?

Oh, I forgot about the Overclocked ATI 3870(bought for $125!) that I have from Best Buy. So that's part of my build too.

If you'd still like to test the waters with DDR3 you can get Asus P5Q3 Deluxe MB and OCZ Platinum DDR3 1333 and still stay under your budget target. It will just be a bit slower and a bit more expensive than the P5Q Deluxe DDR2 1066 option.

The Seagate 250GB 7200.10 is a decent option. Im sure most people would recommend the newer 7200.11 version HDDs. The price was OK - difference was $5 less at NewEgg. I don't have a real preference as to which E-tailer a person uses to find the best overall price. But the NewEgg site is MUCH easier to use when posting links for recommendations or comparisons. 1 500GB HDD should be a lot less expensive than 2 250GB HDDs.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6822148288

1. The memory latency/motherboard combo only accounts for 1-2% difference as shown in the Techgage chart above. That alone wouldn't hardly be noticeable in actual usage if it weren't for the pretty hefty difference in price. For the entire review @ Techgage it seemed that the Intel board (using identical memory & CPU to the Asus P5E3 Premium) wasnt quite as efficient as other X38/X48 boards (or P45 with DDR2!) in the review.
My opinion on RAM is that it only needs to be fast enough (have enough bandwidth) to keep the memory cache on the CPU topped off (E8400 has 6MB of L2 memory cache on the CPU die). It's not like any computations take place in RAM where faster RAM will make the PC faster. The CPU's memory bandwidth is the limiting factor. There is no point in have a too wide funnel of RAM when it has to pass through a narrower CPU. A slight overclock of the CPU will ALWAYS be a bigger performance boost thanks to higher CPU bandwidth and faster CPU computations.

2. The 3870 vs 4870 is where the bulk of the performance increase comes - anywhere from 25%-50% or more depending on the game. The P45/RAM combo's price advantage allowing the 4870 to fit in the budget was the major factor in my recommendation.
I used the 3870X2 as a reference for 2x 3870CF. For comparison between the 3870 vs 4870 look at the gaming benchmarks over @ AnandTech. They show the 1680x1050 performance comparisons (usually in the chart below the graphs). http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3341&p=1
Also take note how the 4850 scores in relation to the 3870 if you're thinking about a future CF upgrade = 1 4850 now another later.
The end of the review had the 4870CF &4850CF scores.


The THG 4870 review should also be useful for you:
http://www.tomshardware.com/review [...] ,1964.html