To Crossfire or Not to Crossfire?

andyc52042 · Jul 6, 2008

Here's the situation: I bought my current computer with plans to upgrade just about everything, and in three years all I did was add some RAM. So I'm sort of doubting that I should even spend the extra to get a Crossfire-ready system, since there's a good chance I'd never go through with it. Here are some different configurations, prices are the best on Newegg/Pricegrabber. I don't know what I'm doing yet for PSU/cooling on the Crossfire setups, so I estimated that at $180.

Crossfire 4870, $1482
Crossfire-ready (with one 4870, then add 2nd later on), $1166
No Crossfire Ever, 4870, $975

Has anyone here locked themselves into a single-card setup and regretted it? I'm pretty sure starting with 2 cards is out of my budget, especially since I might be getting a new monitor. Is it worth the $200 to add Crossfire compatibility, even though there's a risk it could go to waste? I could possibly stretch my budget that extra amount, the main concern is just that I want to know if anyone has recommendations on this or has ever regretted locking themselves into a single-card solution.

So, what are everyone's recommendations on this? Never go Xfire, have Xfire as an option for later on, or beg the parents for even more of a budget?

EDIT: It might be worth noting that I currently use two monitors at a resolution of 2560x1024 for use with my music production, video editing/effects, and also schoolwork. When I game, I just run one monitor at 1280x1024. If I get a new monitor setup, I'll likely get one widescreen @ 1920x1200, or I might get a widescreen and keep a current one so I can still have an extra-wide desktop for non-gaming.

shadowduck · Jul 6, 2008

Depends on what monitor you are getting.

Below 1920x1200 you don't need CF.

Above it helps. I would probably give yourself the option. Where do you get $200 between No CF and CF ready?

andyc52042 · Jul 6, 2008

For No CF, I'd just be going with the Sonata III case ($125), mainly for its included 500W PSU which I've heard would be good for a single card.

For CF-Ready, I'd get the Coolermaster 690 ($80 shipped from Egoodz--never heard of them--or $104 shipped from Newegg). And I would need a good PSU for later when I'd get the second card, and the average price seems to be around $140. That's $95 total price increase for the new case/PSU ($125 vs $220). And all the motherboards I've seen with dual PCIe 2.0 16x on which both slots keep two cards running at 16x + 16x, it looks like I need the X48 chipset, which adds about another $100 to the motherboard cost.

I'd love to give myself the option for CF at some point, so can anyone recommend a build based around the Q6600 and 4870 that would have good cooling and PSU? (Finding a good motherboard/PSU/case combination seems to me to be the hardest part in making it CF ready.)

shadowduck · Jul 6, 2008

The 4870 will have trouble in a Sonta III case. The airflow is poor.

I would do this:

Q6600
P182 Case
PC Power and Cooling Quad 750W PSU
Asus P5E Deluxe motherboard

andyc52042 · Jul 6, 2008

Newegg currently has the Quad 750W PSU for $125, so that definitely helps on the pricing.

Here's the build so far. And thanks a lot for the help shadowduck, you've brought me through a lot of decisions on this.

Q6600 OEM
P182 Case
PC P&C Quad 750W
Asus P5E Deluxe
HD4870
4GB DDR2 1066
500GB HD (Seagate, 32MB Cache, any tips on this?)
Cooling (I figured this would be right around $40)

Total: $1165 + $40 cooling est. = $1205

If I could save some money by going with DDR2 800 memory instead, as well as a smaller harddrive (I already have an external 500gig, and I haven't even used a fourth of it), I'd be willing to make some cuts there. How does this build look?

aevm · Jul 6, 2008

Get a RC-690, it's cheaper than the P182 and more appropriate for HD 4870 CF. I love the P182 but it's not ideal for two big video cards.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119137 $85+$19

Corsair 750TX PSU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139006&Tpk=750tx $110

DDR2-800 may save you some cash over DDR2-1066.

Get a WD6400AAKS or WD3200AAKS or a Seagate 500GB. Avoid Seagate's 320GB and WD's 500GB.

Good Crossfire MBs: aBit IX38 QuadGT ($219), GA-EX38-DS4 ($208), GA-X48-DS4 ($235), P5E X38 ($235), P5E Deluxe X48 ($230). Prices are Newegg today after rebates and shipping.

If you need to save cash for now so you can afford the better PSU and MB, get only 2 GB of RAM for now and/or use the stock cooler. (Get the Q6600 retail in that case, not OEM.)

A good cooler: Xigmatek HDT-S1283. For best results you need the retention bracket for it too.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233019&Tpk=xigmatek+retention

andyc52042 · Jul 6, 2008

aevm, funny that you'd bring up Coolermaster's 690. It was actually the case I was looking at before shadowduck mentioned the P182, and that I'd already spent some time looking up reviews for (someone else mentioned on these forums that the more you know, the harder it gets to make a decision--very true.)

The price is definitely a very attractive feature for me. I searched Google for comparisons of the two, and while most users side with the P182, I found positive reviews for the CM690.

It looks like going with the CM690 and the Corsair PSU would save me about $80. This decision about the case (and maybe the PSU) is really the only component holding me back. Personally, I like the looks of the 690 just a little better (and the price), but I'd be willing to spend more for the performance gain.

Can either of you or anyone else with experience/advice on these two cases help me out?

cyborg28 · Jul 6, 2008

shadowduck :

How do you figure? The avg. 4870 has rear exhaust, so the case only has to be able to allow for enough air to get in for the PSU, 120mm Case and GFX fan. The sonata III has a reasonable amount of front passive intake space. I would not expect a moderate (2-3 HDD) single GPU rig to have problems in a sonata III.

As long as you get a mobo with a decent CPU power supply (PWM) cooling setup this should all be fine. If there is not cooling on all of the PWM mosfets the sonata III can get toasty in that area without a downdraft cpu cooler. That was the problem I had with the sonata III. Only a problem with Quadcore & an upright cooler.

cyborg28 · Jul 6, 2008

aevm :

Wow, excellent picks / advice for a CF rig. I'm not sure that 2x PCIe 2.0 x16 is really needed. A P5Q-E with two 8x slots will probably perform the same and save $50 or so.

*edit*

that Xigmatek bracket or the Thermalright equiv. are a total must have for the S1283 cooler. My 3.0 Ghz Q6600 runs at 33-37 deg. (depending on core) at 24 deg. ambient at idle, down from as high as 45 with the push pins.

Damn... I want the rig you are building... even if I don't beleive in CF / SLI.

tablepost998 · Jul 6, 2008

I just built a system and used NZXT Tempest case

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146047

This case is awesome, everything is super easy to install, there are 6 fans in the case alone, and lots of extra room for airflow. Now this is also the Largest case Ive gotten, so if your looking for something small or a medium sized case it might not be the best for you.

Also, I would look into the E8400 processor over the Q6600 if this system is for gaming. From what I read building my own comp last week, the E8400 outperforms the Q66 in a number of games, and is cheaper.

cyborg28 · Jul 6, 2008

andyc52042 :

I think gaming is a secondary function of the OPs Rig.

tablepost998 · Jul 6, 2008

aevm · Jul 6, 2008

Yeah, but did you guys see that reference to the 1920x1200 monitor in the original post? That would justify Crossfire, no doubts about it. Of course, at 1280x1024 you don't need Crossfire. Crysis for example gets 35 fps with a single HD 4870 at that resolution, and 46 fps with two. Everything else will do just fine on a single card at 1280x1200. At 1920x1200 things are different, though.

aevm · Jul 6, 2008

andyc52042 :

Advantages of the RC-690:
1. The HD 4870 is 9.5" long. This means you can put two of them in a P182 without problems. However, in the future, if you replace the HD 4870 with something bigger, you'd have to remove a HDD cage to make room. I had this problem with an 8800GTX (which is almost 11" long). So, this is really a minor thing, but the RC-690 is more future-proof from this point of view, because it can host two 11" cards without issues.
2. Cooling: the RC-690 can have as many as 7 fans (as opposed to 3 in the P182).
3. Price

Advantages of the P182:
1. Looks really nice
2. Designed to be quiet, with triple layer panels and fan controls.

You can really go with either of them, they're both fine.

As for the PSU: right now at newegg after shipping and rebates 550VX is $101 and 750TX is $110. At these prices it's a no-brainer to pay the $9 more and get the bigger PSU. It gives you the Crossfire option, it will be further from maximum capacity (so you gain a few percentage points of efficiency), and it will be more likely to be reusable in the next computer.

LOL. Here's a warning from a newegg reviewer, about the 750TX. I was just checking that it fits in the P182, and found this pearl:

Pros: 750W should power my system and any/all upgrades I need/want for quite some time. There are more than enough cables for everything I could possibly cram into my Antec P182.

Cons: None with the PSU itself. Installing it into my P182 case was a pain, but that wasn't Corsair's fault. The PSU itself is great.

cyborg28 · Jul 6, 2008

aevm :

Advantages of the CM690 (& 590):
1. Looks really nice

Personal pref. though.

aevm · Jul 7, 2008

LOL, true. They're both good looking.

Another thing: the P182 has a door, which helps reduce noise a bit and protects the PC against spilling coffee. On the other hand, a door can be annoying if you need to load or eject dvds often. I have no idea if this is a plus or a minus

cyborg28 · Jul 7, 2008

cyborg28 :

The door thing too.

andyc52042 · Jul 7, 2008

I've looked up lot's of comparison's between the two cases now, and it really is beginning to seem like a personal preference issue and nothing more, as they are both apparently excellent cases.

P182 for silence.
CM690 for better cooling, price.

At first I heard that the P182 had better cable management, but then I came across excellent points about the CM690's CM system as well. Anyone have personal experience with how quiet the CM690 is? If it and the P182 are pretty close, I think I've picked a winner in the 690.

Mitchmj · Jul 7, 2008

I am in the process of getting a ver similar system,

Basics

CPU Intel Q6600
MOBO Asus P5E-Deluxe
GFX Radeon 4870
HDD Seagate 320Gb 7200.11
RAM Corsair 4Gb DDR2 800mhz 4-4-4-12
PSU ThermalTake Toughpower 750W
Case ThermalTake VA8000BWS

Extras

Mouse Logitech G9 or Razer Lechesis
Keyboard Logitech G15

I am suprised that no-one in this thread has mentioned the fabled Antec 900, that seems to be a very popular case around these parts (and with good reason) but imo as long as a case has airflow that suits your needs and will fit all your bits and pieces then its just a matter of personal preference. (i personally think the antec 900 is ugly.. but each to their own

)

cyborg28 · Jul 7, 2008

my cm690 has 7~8 120mm fans going full tilt. Not so quiet. Not a Jet engine, lives in my bedroom with my wife, but loud enough that I turn it off before bed.

I don't think the P182 fits 6-7 120mm case fans.

*edit*

My 7600GT GPU is pretty wimpy. The loudest thing in your build will be the 4870 if all your 120mm fans are kept to around 1500 rpm.

andyc52042 · Jul 7, 2008

So I searched Google for info about Crossfire setups in a P182 and I came across this:
http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?t=692209

The reviewer was using a P182 case with CF 4870. When he installed the cards, he said that it was "the first time (he'd) felt as though the P182 is a little bit cramped." He also reported that the two cards idled at 80c. Granted, I didn't happen to catch what his cooling setup may have been, but it seems to me like the CM690 might win the temperature issue (from what I've heard in general about its better cooling). And even as far as noise, he said they were still quite loud even in his P182, which makes me wonder how much louder the CM690 might be.

From what I've gathered, the CM690 wins on cooling and size, while the P182 has the silence thing going for it (even though this review makes me wonder if it's that great).

Does anyone have any personal experience or just more general advice about picking between these two cases (P182 and CM690)?

To Crossfire or Not to Crossfire?

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