New CPU or OCing?

[steelydan]

I'm addicted. The woman in my house says I should be ashamed, at my age of 63, to be playing FPS games. This woman, my wife, will never, ever understand the sheer excitement of these games. I'm sure that playing these games 1-2hrs daily have a lot to do with my mental state, hand-eye coordination, general health and outlook-and they are sure fun! Having stated my blurb, I got some questions and kindly ask any reader for their opinion. While I researched parts, purchased from NewEgg, assembled, this system myself, my neighbor, a truly knowledgeable corporate IT middle manager, hooked it up, loaded the major software, etc. He strongly warned me against OCing. Too much pressure on overall system, you don't need it- even when I told him I would be playing graphic intense games. He said he liked my parts but I should have got a dual core, E8500 or 8400 CPU instead.

The major parts of my games are HL2 series, COD series, Bioshock and for about 3 months, Crysis. Outside of Crysis, the games all play well with no real problems at full game resolution, no AA, only experiencing a periodic crash. With Crysis, 1600 res is about the best I can do- but with more frequent crashes. I don't know much about frame rates, benchmark tests and the likes. All these games play reasonably well - I think. Considering my listed system, and the more demanding graphic requirements in upcoming games, I can well envision, and Crysis giving me some problems now, I could use some intense gamers" input. Is my problem the Q6600 not being overclocked. I pretty sure Crysis demands 3.0 Ghertz to perform. These two 3870 cards are both starting to rattle, (fans), pretty loud. If I change them should I go with the 4870 or 4850 - and should I pursue them in CF. Also, what CPU to upgrade to for more than enough power to play Crysis type games. Please assume that I am deficient at electronics, the finer area of computers. Thanks a lot.

 

[spuddyt]

i'm afraid your "knowledgeable" friend may not be too knowledgeable in OC'ing, since, for the q6600 you can usually increase the FSB by quite a lot without ever needing a voltage increase (which is the dangerous part AFAIK), think 3.0 ghz usually - however, what cooling does your CPU have? What are idle and load temperatures at stock? And what is the "periodic crash" you are having? have you measured temps? is it a BSOD or just a random restart? anyway, don't compare a 3.0 ghz Q6600 with the 3.0 ghz single core P4 that is listed as being the minimum for crysis, even at 2.4, any core 2 is WAY out of a P4's league. And last and probably most importantly, list your system specs!!!!

 

[chookman]

Im a bit confused about what your system has? can you list your system specs.

As for your "knowledgable" friend, hes right overclocking does put more of a tax on your system and why wouldnt it your pushing a cpu further than it was designed to run at. However with the c2d's its not all that much as long as you have the right stuff theres very little risk involved as spuddyt suggested. Ive got my e7200 running at 3.2ghz up on 2.53 without increasing voltage so its not hard.

No Offense to anyone out there but its usually the middle management types that think they know alot about everything when they dont.

 

[dagger]

Just oc the q6600. It reliably goes from 2.4 to 3.6ghz, or 50% increase. It's the most typical speed people around those parts run q6600 at, since it uses an even 1600mhz fsb for 9x400=3.6ghz, and 2x400 for the cheap 800mhz ddr2 ram. A quick one minute oc, since all the numbers match perfectly. Clean, efficient and reliable setup. Some go as high as 4ghz, but you'll have to go above 1600mhz fsb and faster than 800mhz for ram. Not as clean, which means more work plus the extra stress on the hardware.

 

[eklipz330]

yes, the man is right in some sense. SOME anyway.

for games an e8500 would have been the ideal choice for gaming [for majority of today games anyhow], but only really if your going to OC. yes it stress's your system, but before your system croaks, it would be too old anyway... get some good cooling, i.e. xigmatek s1238 and some nice and quiet fans

instead of replacing your proc, which is perfectly fine, especially if it a G0 stepping, you should OC it maybe to 3.2 ghz, i've heard thats usually the sweet spot of removing most bottleneck from your computer[bottleneck is when one of your parts keeps another part from performing at its peak]

i would say either get a single 4870, or a 4870x2... btw what resolution do you play on?

and what are your specs on your rig?

 

[IH8U]

A little of the issue could be the 3870's that you are trying to use. OC'ing is good (can help push the last bit of performance out of a weak, or old CPU) however that Q6600 will, and can OC very well. The video is your bottleneck.

some examples of newer cards

ATI:
Low: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161235
$175 ATI 4850 (best bang for the buck)(stomps the 3870 in every way)
Mid: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102769
$275 ATI 4870
High: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102768
$560 ATI 4870X2

nVidia (you will need to run driver cleaner before installing any of these)
Low: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130379
$173 9800GT
Mid: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130386
$230 9800 GTX+
High: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150309
$450 GTX 280

 

[steelydan]

My bad, sorry SpuddyT, on my system specs. Asus P5E MB, Cosmos Coolermaster, 4 g Crucial Ballistic Tracer, Q6600, Zalman 9700NT Cooler, all fans slots occupied, PC Silencer 750 watt PSU, Vision Tech CF 3870's, HitachiDeskstar 750HD, Vista Ultimate 64 bit, 28"Hanns, thought they's show up automatically when I listed them in signing up for this site. I spent some time researching these parts before purchase and I hope they're right.

According to the posts, I guess the Q6600 can be OC'd to 3.0-3.2. Even when I've been playing Crysis for an hour, the temps are like 95-105CPU, 110-115 system. Will change GPU's to 4850 CF and attempt to OC CPU. Please and rightfully assume that I am computer challenged. Asus has a utility for OCing. Do I use that or go through the BIOS screen and their "Extreme Tweaker"? You guys and your info is much appreciated but I don't get a lot of what your saying and asking me for. I turned on this machine and my good neighbor helped and it worked. I spent 45 yrs wearing a gun,driving a cruiser and putting on scuba gear, none of which involved anything electronic or computer involved. I could use some recommended sites or info on getting a workable knowledge basis for gaming and computer performance. Any suggestions?

Again to all, thanks for your input and attention.

 

[dragonsprayer]

you should overclock a q6600 that is the only logical solution to 3.2-3.6ghz

why would you not?

1) if your system can not cool it - then and only then, you should run a dual core at 3.6-4ghz


remember the quad is 2 dual put together - intel practically gives the second die (2 cores) away free.


also remember that 45nm cpus suck - 65nm cpus lover 1.45v and will run there for ever. and you can run YOUR Q6600 AT 1.46-1.48V at 55-65c at max with good cooling.


stinky 45nm CPU'S are just a stepping stone to nehelam - while the qx9650 adn qx9770 do give you some more bang its not much.

you need water cooling to squeeze 4.2ghz

so for $200 and a $40 cooler you get 3.6ghz w/ the q6600 next step is

for $1000 or $1500 (600-800 on ebay) plus $1000 of water cooling stuff you get 4.2ghz.


---------------------
back to the dual core
--------------------
dual core is a half a quad. its like buying a motorcycle for you familey - does that make sence?


you games will run on 2 cores, the rest of the familey (background programs) will run on the other 2 - which intel gives you for free! you just got to cool it!


lol!


BIGEST MISCONCEPTION TODAY IN GAMING SYSTEMS IS 2 CORES IS ALL YOU NEED SINCE 99% OF ALL THE GAMES CAN NOT USE MORE THEN 2 CORES!

 

[Wisecracker]

Crysis does not CF well - and is a poor measuring stick of the gaming performance of your rig.

Remove your side panel and see if you can reduce those load temps. I'm thinking you do not have 'dual slot' HD3870s and that you are circulating too much heat in your case.

If that is true consider purchasing 2 of these for your video cards ...

VANTEC CCB-A6C Ball VGA Cooler
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835110015


Also consider side-venting for your case. If you are handy with a jig saw (or even a cordless drill with a 3-inch 'hole saw') you may add a few 80mm fans to aid your cooling.

Get your temps down and then buy a nice cpu cooler and some AS5. You can then crank up that Q6600 (and even tweak the 3870s with an OC). Folks around here will be glad to show you the way Total investment counting the video coolers: Less than $100.

I think the OCs will give much more benefit (especially in CF Crysis) than spending over $300 on an HD4850 CF.

 

[B-Unit]

The Zalman he has isn't nice enuf? LMAO seriously read the thread before posting.

Those temps fall in the 35-40C range on his CPU, I would think that anything below 50C is just fine (Please correct me if Im wrong) so he should have some headroom for OCing.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/240001-29-howto-overclock-quads-duals-guide <-- Link to guide on overclocking Core2 processors. Have a look at that and post back with anything thats not clear. I agree that the Crossfired 3870's should perform pretty well for you, the only thing would be Crysis, which lets face it, nothing runs well, lol.

 

[steelydan]

Thanks all. Sorry I didn't state my temps were Fahrenheit. Anyhow this MB gives a utility for ocing, and BIOS gives an "Extreme Tweaker" utility. Which to use?. Also, on that note, please advise if 9 multiplier times FSB of 333 and a vcore of 1.32-1.34 is in the ballpark. Don't really want to go any higher.

Wisecracker, don't understand what "dual slot" 3870's mean, or if I have them, but I put 2 in the MB
with the CRossfire connector attached and formatted Crossfire?

Thanks for your time and patience.

 

[Wisecracker]

Thanks all. Sorry I didn't state my temps were Fahrenheit. Anyhow this MB gives a utility for ocing, and BIOS gives an "Extreme Tweaker" utility. Which to use?. Also, on that note, please advise if 9 multiplier times FSB of 333 and a vcore of 1.32-1.34 is in the ballpark. Don't really want to go any higher.

Wisecracker, don't understand what "dual slot" 3870's mean, or if I have them, but I put 2 in the MB
with the CRossfire connector attached and formatted Crossfire?

Thanks for your time and patience.

Check this link from the Egg ...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=40000048&Description=hd3870&bop=And&CompareItemList=N82E16814129100%2CN82E16814103050

The card on the left is a single-slot card which vents hot air inside the case. The card on the right is a dual-slot card. The second slot in the 'dual' configuration vents hot air out of the back of the case.

115f is around 46c. 105f is around 41c. I believe that the q6600 spec (Tcase max) is 71c. I'm not sure what your temp readings represent but at stock you are in good shape.

Q6600s can really take a beating. It is important, however, to keep your temps under control. An OC may add 10c-15c to your core temps. These temps may vary depending upon your cpu 'batch' (either B3 or G0). A vcore of 1.32-1.34 is fine and that may not be accounting for possible voltage drop (vdroop).

If your system temps rise along with your core temps that would get yah in the 60c+ range. That's an overall temp where I start to worry a bit (I prefer system temps below 50c but I'm conservative. I load my system with hard drives and don't like them over 45c.)

Using the BIOS is preferable. Any questions will be quickly resolved here ...

 

[steelydan]

Wisecracker, thanks. Oc'd to 3.2 in BIOS. System running well. Crysis playing better. Anyone suggest a freeware temperature utility they've found to be fairly accurate?

 

[Grimmy]

Just make things simple, and use Asus probe utility. It should read the Tcase sensor as CPU temp, and keep it below 71C, which is the thermal spec on a Q6600 G0 CPU.

 

[steelydan]

Thanks Grimmy.