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HDMI - PAL/NTSC flavours

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Anonymous
September 25, 2005 1:46:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Does the HDMI satndard have PAL and NTSC flavours?
In other words, say I caonnect a PAL DVD to an NTSC HD TV using HDMI,
will it work?

Yosi

More about : hdmi pal ntsc flavours

September 25, 2005 2:24:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

The answer to the first question is yes.
The answer to the second question is no. The TV must have PAL cabability
for the PAL DVD to work.

<yosi.keller@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1127666810.214240.236590@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Does the HDMI satndard have PAL and NTSC flavours?
> In other words, say I caonnect a PAL DVD to an NTSC HD TV using HDMI,
> will it work?
>
> Yosi
>
September 25, 2005 2:31:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Make that capability not cabability. :)  :) 
"dj" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:mMidnSw9SJakQKveRVn-tg@scnresearch.com...
> The answer to the first question is yes.
> The answer to the second question is no. The TV must have PAL cabability
> for the PAL DVD to work.
>
> <yosi.keller@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1127666810.214240.236590@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> Does the HDMI satndard have PAL and NTSC flavours?
>> In other words, say I caonnect a PAL DVD to an NTSC HD TV using HDMI,
>> will it work?
>>
>> Yosi
>>
>
>
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Anonymous
September 25, 2005 10:52:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On 25 Sep 2005 09:46:50 -0700 yosi.keller@gmail.com wrote:

| Does the HDMI satndard have PAL and NTSC flavours?
| In other words, say I caonnect a PAL DVD to an NTSC HD TV using HDMI,
| will it work?

If by "flavour" you mean differences in physical construction of the
cable assembly or connectors for PAL or NTSC, the answer is no. But
if you mean there is a difference in the signal going across, then
the answer is yes. Unless your PAL DVD player can convert to another
format (some multi-standard models can do that), the output will be
in the PAL format. If the TV only handles NTSC, that obviously will
not work.

But technically speaking, "NTSC" is an analog standard that specifies
how to carry color difference signals along with the monochrome analog
signal for standard definition video. HDMI is designed to carry video
in a digital form consisting of discrete monochrome and color difference
signals. This really is not "NTSC" per se, though the video being sent
may have the same frame rate and geometry as NTSC (this would make sense
for video content made in North America). Distinguishing this video
format in a digital context would be better done as "480i29.97".

Labeling a TV as "NTSC HD" also does not make sense, since HD is not
really either "PAL" or "NTSC", though frame rates for HD will generally
match either PAL or NTSC frame rates (or certain other frame rates that
are associated with motion picture production).

A TV that can do both HD (in one or more of 720p59.94 and 1080i29.97)
and SD (in 480i29.97 for the "NTSC market") would not require much more
to also be able to handle PAL-like digital video. You may find that
some of the more flexible TV sets or monitors really can handle video
in formats like 576i25, even though marketed in North America. Monitors
designed for computers that are adapted for TV use, particularly the CRT
type, most likely can.

If you are in the market to buy a new TV or monitor, you might want to
check and be sure the models you consider really can handle all the
video formats you want to use.

--
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Anonymous
September 26, 2005 9:38:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Preface - the HDMI Spec is only available to manufacturers at
http://www.hdmi.org, and its "Video Format Support" section has the
(complex) details you are seeking. Its not appropriate for me to post the
relevant section, so I'll summarize here.

NTSC, PAL and SECAM are analog standards, and as such you will not find much
direct reference to them in the HDMI Spec. What you will find is that most
resolutions are qualified as being @59.94/60Hz or @50Hz, and the general
comment is that HDMI devices should output/input the same class of
resolutions/framerates that the same device would output/input on component
video or DVI. In short, if all your analog outputs have European DTV
resolutions @50Hz, thats what you should expect in your HDMI output too. If
all your analog outputs have US DTV resolutions @59.94/60Hz, thats what you
should expect on HDMI too. The only mandatory cross-over is that @50 sink
devices need to be able to accept 640x480 @ 59.94/60 (the fallback mode that
so many video standards require).

Above and beyond the required behavior, there is nothing limiting a
source/sink device manufacturing a device with HDMI that supports all the
knowm European and US DTV resolutions/framerates.

Thomas Gilg
August 25, 2006 10:36:58 PM

Hello,

So a PAL DVD Player can not be used with a NTSC TV even using HDMI output from the DVD.

What about using a HD Tuner with HDMI output (from Europe) with an NTSC HD ready LCD TV?

Thanks
January 3, 2008 12:57:29 PM

Hi gurus,

I have a biiiig problem here. I used to live in Colombia, and i bough a Sony bravia KDL40-XBR2 ATSC LCD. Some months later i returned to my Country in Europe and brought the LCD with me....

Now, i have a Philips DVD player i bought in Colombia that i cracked, and i'm able to see all regions DVD's.. That's ok ... but i bought a Sony bravia DVD recorder ( one of those with HDMI output and RF input) .. connected it via HDMI into the LCD and ..... the only thing that appears is :

"Unsupported signal - please check video output"

Is there any solution for my problem ..like HDMI frame rate converters ...

Pedro
January 15, 2008 6:42:21 PM

HI

I have the same exactly problem :pfff:  with my Sony bravia KDL46-XBR2 ATSC LCD that I brought from US while I was there on job assignment. Now I'm back in Europe (Poland) and can not connect any locally available PayTV satellite tuners using HDMI ports or other available ones; keep getting the same message as Pedro: "Unsupported signal - please check video output". I'm almost certain that this has to do with refresh rate at least in HDMI case (50 vs. 60 or is it 100Hz vs 120Hz) :pt1cable: . If that's the case is there a device (preferable a satellite tuner) that I can configure for "European HDMI" input and "US HDMI" output?

Thanks for help

Konrad
February 21, 2008 5:15:05 PM

I'm reading all that's written, but I'm afraid the technical jargon is a bit too advanced for me to understand. Moreover, what hasn't yet been answered are the questions that matter to me. I, too, have a Sony Bravia TV. (Note to other users: if you set set-top box output to 576i / p and connect through Component cables, it should work.) Through HDMI, my Bravia won't display anything but a a little yellow box with "unsupported signal type."

What really interests me is whether ATSC or DVB "encoding" persists after it passes through my decoder (my cable box, if that's more understandable). I understand that it's not really ATSC, or DVB, but this specific scenario doesn't matter much, what does is whether or not this will leave the signal standard (ATSC / DVB) incompatibility problem unchanged.

It's a bit hard to describe what I mean as I don't truly understand this, but I'm giving it my best shot: Will the output from an HDMI cable from my DVB-C cable box be compatible with a TV with ATSC and QAM tuners? A friend of mine says it works for him, however, it doesn't work for me. I'd just like to understand how this works...
February 21, 2008 6:51:55 PM

I have found the solution that works, I hope. I have ordered a product that's called scaler and what it allows me to do is to define refresh frequency on HDMI's port (input & output). The scaler is: GEFEN HOME THEATER VIDEO SCALER CONVERTER 1080P HOMETSP. There are others but I have ordered this one.
February 4, 2009 5:31:29 PM

konnex18 said:
I have found the solution that works, I hope. I have ordered a product that's called scaler and what it allows me to do is to define refresh frequency on HDMI's port (input & output). The scaler is: GEFEN HOME THEATER VIDEO SCALER CONVERTER 1080P HOMETSP. There are others but I have ordered this one.


Can you post if your solution worked. I might be facing exactly the same problem if we go back to Poland.

Thanks
September 4, 2009 10:33:39 PM

There is a unit specifically made for converting 50Hz Pal to 60Hz NTSC or vice versa.
Atlona AT-HD560

Thanks
September 10, 2009 1:48:50 AM

Ok , this might be the answer I need to fix my " Unsupported Signal" issue where can I purchase this unit and approx how much is it if you now
Thx.
Anonymous
July 3, 2010 3:33:34 PM

So, if the Set top box has a settings to configure the HDMI output to 1080i/50 or 1080i/60, will it work with NTSC ( 60Hz ) only TV if the output is set to 1080i/60 ?
Anonymous
July 9, 2010 2:18:35 PM

prov said:
I'm reading all that's written, but I'm afraid the technical jargon is a bit too advanced for me to understand. Moreover, what hasn't yet been answered are the questions that matter to me. I, too, have a Sony Bravia TV. (Note to other users: if you set set-top box output to 576i / p and connect through Component cables, it should work.) Through HDMI, my Bravia won't display anything but a a little yellow box with "unsupported signal type."

What really interests me is whether ATSC or DVB "encoding" persists after it passes through my decoder (my cable box, if that's more understandable). I understand that it's not really ATSC, or DVB, but this specific scenario doesn't matter much, what does is whether or not this will leave the signal standard (ATSC / DVB) incompatibility problem unchanged.

It's a bit hard to describe what I mean as I don't truly understand this, but I'm giving it my best shot: Will the output from an HDMI cable from my DVB-C cable box be compatible with a TV with ATSC and QAM tuners? A friend of mine says it works for him, however, it doesn't work for me. I'd just like to understand how this works...


After reading through various blogs, I tend to come to a conclusion ( without a practical experience ) that there is a compatibility issue with ATSC vs DVB-T in a digital world as well just like NTSC vs PAL in a analog world which is beyond refresh rate/frame rate of 50Hz vs 60Hz.

In India, Dish TV HD STB has a setting for HDMI to output 1920x1080i@60Hz or 1920x1080i@50Hz. However, in calling the techinican , he indicated me that it will still not work with NTSC TV.
I still could not find a solution to my TV. My TV is Sony Bravia KDL-40v2500 NTSC model bought from USA which is ATSC compliance.
August 13, 2010 5:52:22 PM

Im on the same boat. Bought a Sony Bravia KDL-46W5100 in the U.S and took it to India. Though I'm able to get the regular a/v, my Airtel HD wouldn't work and fails with the same 'Unsupported signal' error message. Did someone figure out how to make it work? If the Indian HD providers continue to provide the HD in the local format (PAL, that is) only, then it looks like we are stuck and have no choice but to buy some expensive converters like the ones mentioned here (http://www.amazon.com/DVDO-EDGE-High-Definition-Video-P..., http://www.amazon.com/Gefen-EXT-HOMETSP-Home-Theater-Sc...).

Has anyone used these scalers/converters at least and confirm if they worked or not? Truly appreciate any guidance on this. Thanks. -
August 14, 2010 7:24:51 PM

thirukumar said:
Im on the same boat. Bought a Sony Bravia KDL-46W5100 in the U.S and took it to India. Though I'm able to get the regular a/v, my Airtel HD wouldn't work and fails with the same 'Unsupported signal' error message. Did someone figure out how to make it work? If the Indian HD providers continue to provide the HD in the local format (PAL, that is) only, then it looks like we are stuck and have no choice but to buy some expensive converters like the ones mentioned here (http://www.amazon.com/DVDO-EDGE-High-Definition-Video-P..., http://www.amazon.com/Gefen-EXT-HOMETSP-Home-Theater-Sc...).

Has anyone used these scalers/converters at least and confirm if they worked or not? Truly appreciate any guidance on this. Thanks. -


Thiru,
Read the comments of the below review. Though it is a different tv, the content may be useful. Is NatGeo HD channel also not displayed?
http://www.amazon.com/review/R2XA4BN6LOER86/ref=cm_cr_p...
August 16, 2010 10:33:10 AM

softganesh said:
Thiru,
Read the comments of the below review. Though it is a different tv, the content may be useful. Is NatGeo HD channel also not displayed?
http://www.amazon.com/review/R2XA4BN6LOER86/ref=cm_cr_p...


Thanks for the pointer, Ganesh. so, either the tv has to support 50hz or you do that with an upscale converter. But unfortunately my Sony KDL-46W5100 doesn't support 50hz (60 only) and I don't have a converter either. Just went ahead and ordered a Atlona AT-HD560 which seems to be pretty good at this PAL/NTSC HDMI conversions and I can't wait to hook it up. Will post my experience as well, with atlona.

Thanks.

--thiru
August 27, 2010 7:44:07 PM

softganesh said:
Thiru,
As per sony's website your tv supports both 50hz and 60hz.

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Prod...

Did you buy it from some other country?

Anyway I've ordered DVDO Edge. It costs $500. but seems to be the best in class. I heard that Atlona has heating problems very often.



Hi Ganesh,

Did you got your DVDO? I am also planning to buy one? From where you placed your order?

Thanks,
Sumeet
August 29, 2010 3:20:41 PM

tosumeet said:
Hi Ganesh,

Did you got your DVDO? I am also planning to buy one? From where you placed your order?

Thanks,
Sumeet


I'll be receiving it in 2 weeks. I actually ordered from USA and delivered to my cousin who is coming to India shortly. I dont think it is available here. I don't even know whether I need DVDO since my TV may support it directly without DVDO (yet to receive my TV in a week from a ship from USA). But ordered DVDO since my cousin is coming and if tv doesn't support PAL, then it will be too difficult to get DVDO later for me!!
Anonymous
September 11, 2010 2:44:35 PM

My TV is KDL-V2500 Sony Bravia NTSC only TV bought from USA in 2007.

I think it supports only 60Hz. Can someone confirm ?
September 27, 2010 6:37:25 AM

I had exactly this problem with a US-bought Toshiba Regza and a European Humax decoder.

Solution:

http://www.amazon.com/Atlona-AT-HD560-HDMI-Converter-10...

* AT-HD560 can scale up or down any computer resolution from VGA to WUXGA or HDTV resolution from 480p to 1080p
* Automatically detect the factory setting of the connected display and output the corresponding resolution and refresh rate
* Supports 50/60Hz frame rate conversion (can be used for Pal/NTSC Conversion).
* Supports 3-D motion video adaptive, 3-D de-interlacing, and 3:2/2:2 pull-down detection and recovery.
September 28, 2010 9:06:39 AM

softganesh said:
Thiru,
As per sony's website your tv supports both 50hz and 60hz.

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Prod...

Did you buy it from some other country?

Anyway I've ordered DVDO Edge. It costs $500. but seems to be the best in class. I heard that Atlona has heating problems very often.


I got the Atlona AT-HD560 Pal HDMI to NTSC HDMI converter (http://www.amazon.com/Atlona-AT-HD560-HDMI-Converter-10...) and its been great thus far. I'm really happy that I got that one finally. Its been about a month and I've not had (knock-on-wood :) ) any heat problems thus far. Its also cheaper than the DVDO Edge.
September 28, 2010 9:10:42 AM

Quote:
After reading through various blogs, I tend to come to a conclusion ( without a practical experience ) that there is a compatibility issue with ATSC vs DVB-T in a digital world as well just like NTSC vs PAL in a analog world which is beyond refresh rate/frame rate of 50Hz vs 60Hz.

In India, Dish TV HD STB has a setting for HDMI to output 1920x1080i@60Hz or 1920x1080i@50Hz. However, in calling the techinican , he indicated me that it will still not work with NTSC TV.
I still could not find a solution to my TV. My TV is Sony Bravia KDL-40v2500 NTSC model bought from USA which is ATSC compliance.


Had the same problem (see below) but I'm a happy HD viewer now with the ~200$ Atlona HDMI Scaler that I got from U.S. Try that one.
October 1, 2010 10:59:21 PM

thirukumar said:
I got the Atlona AT-HD560 Pal HDMI to NTSC HDMI converter (http://www.amazon.com/Atlona-AT-HD560-HDMI-Converter-10...) and its been great thus far. I'm really happy that I got that one finally. Its been about a month and I've not had (knock-on-wood :) ) any heat problems thus far. Its also cheaper than the DVDO Edge.



Hi,

Can you let me know which network cable you are using for AT-HD560, i mean is it Tata sky HD or Sundish network or local cable operator. Thanks.
October 2, 2010 3:08:43 AM

marusri said:
Hi,

Can you let me know which network cable you are using for AT-HD560, i mean is it Tata sky HD or Sundish network or local cable operator. Thanks.


Airtel HD.
October 2, 2010 10:51:00 AM

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