RAM question - please help!!!

Hey everyone,

new member here, great site - been checking it out for a while now. Well to make a long story short, I am 80% complete in building my 1st pc., specs are: Striker II Formula, Q9450, 2xWD 500gb HDs, 2xEVGA 9800 GX2s in SLI, 1000W Galaxy PSU, Thermalright 120 CPU cooler, blah blah blah.... I am stuck on the ram. Been reading mixed opinions on whether to run pc6400 vs. 8500 and 4x1gb vs. 2x2gb. I really like the crucial ballistix tracers, but they only come in either 1 gig sticks in 8500 or 2gb sticks in 6400. Second set are the dominators which are 2x2gb at 8500 but with less eye candy. What would be the wisest route to go. BTW, I will be running Vista 64bit, and money is not an issue. Thanks in advance!

Don't get WD 500GB, get WD 640GB (WD6400AAKS). It uses a new technology (PMR) that makes it much faster.

I'd get the 2x2GB sticks. If anything, they allow you to reach 8 GB later without throwing away any sticks.

I agree with both comments above, the system you listed would be a terrible waste.

I don't think you would find any conflict of opinions about RAM from anyone that really knew what they were talking about. Using Vista 64 you would want at least 2x2gb but more likely 4x2gb or 2x4gb(very expensive and not much around).

I have written about RAM quite a number of times but the situation is very confusing and bears repeating due to the manufacturers confusing methods of marketing.

JEDEC is the governing body that certifies memory speeds and the speeds for DDR2 are 400, 533, 667 and 800 all at 1.8v. A lot of RAM is capable of higher speeds at higher voltages but anything sold at anything other than the speeds and voltage listed above are sold at their overclocked speed. Most RAM currently on the market will have several speeds programmed into their SPD (Serial Presence Detect) chip and a couple might be JEDEC settings and a couple might be EPP (Enhanced Performance Profiles) settings. Most motherboards will recognize RAM at it's JEDEC settings which is why a lot of people get their RAM and plug it in and wonder why it isn't running as fast as it was advertised to. The CPU you are buying has a 1333FSB which means in order to run 1:1 with the RAM all you need is 667. Now I assume you might want to overclock well that's fine because with buying DDR2 800 you can get the FSB to 1600 running 1:1 before you have to worry about overclocking the RAM. Most quality DDR2 800 will overclock quite a bit so even if you get your FSB to 1700 or 1800 you will be fine with DDR2 800. The problem is that not all DDR2 800 is created the same. Take a look at the examples below.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820148202
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820231148
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820146732

They all have similar timings but the Mushkin is capable of them at the standard 1.8v where as the Tracers need a very high 2.2v. This tells me that the Mushkin are using better chips (likely the same chips as the G.Skill) and with a small increase in voltage would be able to out perform the Crucial product.

Here are two more examples, they have exactly the same timings at different voltages.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820220174
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820145589
and then this has the exact same timings at the JEDEC standard 1.8v
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820146118

So what companies do to cover for inferior chips is increase the voltage to reduce timings to a level easily obtained by better chips.

When your looking for RAM the important things to look for are timings and voltage. Try to find something with the standard 1.8v and decent timings and if you need to you will be able to either loosen the timings or increase the voltage slightly and reach higher speeds.

Well, see the bright side. My own WD 500 GB disks are still working perfectly after a year. At least they're reliable.

A 9800GX2 will beat a HD 4870, so yeah, with both at $300 it's better to get a 9800GX2 than a HD 4870 for a single-card PC. But, for a dual-card setup, Crossfire is more efficient than SLI, and especially than Quad SLI, so the advantage of the 9800GX2 cards will be less than you expect. For example in Crysis you won't see much difference between one 9800GX2 and two of them. You'd also have to deal with nVidia's chipset and drivers. The power consumption and heat with two 9800GX2 cards is also a bit excessive IMO. Anyway, can you actually get them for $300, new and with warranty?

@ausch30: Thanks, that was very educational.

Based on that, it looks like this is a really good choice, isn't it:
Mushkin 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) $65, 5-4-4-12 at 1.8V
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820146731

(I did a search for "4GB 1.8V DDR2-800" at Newegg and this has the best timings of all the results.)

Ok, one GX2 it is then. And I bought the Mushkin you guys recommended. As far as the price on these GX2s, the seller got them using the step up program but in the end decided to get different cards altogether, and is willing to sell them @ $300 each, but I have to buy both. BTW, my board is 780i not 790i, if that makes any diff. Once again, thanx for all the help.

I know it seems like a hassle but shadowduck is right. The 780i and 790i are really just the year and a half old 680i with a few improvements and still are no where near as good as Intel's chipsets. You could probably get about $400 for one of the GX2's on Craigslist or Ebay or if you decide to sell both then after selling them you could pretty much end up with a free 4850 or $100 4870. Nvidia chipsets are nothing but a headache, stay away.

That's garbage RAM

Yeah, but there is a large demand for such things. How else do you explain the Antec 900, or Britney Spears?

That's just a whole lotta awesome right there. Thanks for clearing that up so nicely, ausch!

I just have a related questions. What about when the voltage is listed as a range? Like this Geil RAM? Are those timings they list for the max voltage or the min? And why would they need to list the voltage as a range in the first place?

As you can see here there are a variety of voltages and I think that's what their advertising. It's marketing guys trying to confuse you by putting low timings and 1.8v somewhere in the same listing. Even if it is 1.8-2.0 the average person just sees 1.8 and they think they must be good.

Another theory I have is that they've tested them with several motherboards and some require higher voltages for stability.