Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

AMD's Kuma listed: Dual Core around the corner?

Last response: in CPUs
Share
August 27, 2008 12:44:04 PM

http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&ta...

Quote:
Well, AMD might be a couple of months late, but Kuma seems to be just around the corner, we managed to find three Kumas listed.

All three are part of AMD's energy efficient CPU series, branded Phenom X2 GE-6600, 6500 and 6400. Obviously, the 6600 is the fastest of the lot and ends up clocked at 2.3GHz, while the 6500 and 6400 run at 2.1 and 1.9GHz respectively. All have a very low TDP of just 45W, making them an interesting choice for many users, especially when paired up with a 780G or 790GX board.


http://translate.google.de/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww...

Damn. Yesterday I saw a retailer with one model listed, but I simply lost the link...

Thoughts?
August 27, 2008 1:48:20 PM

Well, if that's true, it will mean tough competition for Athlon X2.
a c 127 à CPUs
a b À AMD
August 27, 2008 1:54:55 PM

^Well they are dual cores soe I would expect the TDP to be half. And aren't these K8 cores with just K10 features added on?

But if that is so then they should clock a bit higher I would think anyways.

Guess we shall see.
Related resources
August 27, 2008 1:58:26 PM

wow a 2.3ghz dual core

intel is coming out with a 6 core xeon with hyperthreading 12 core processor

and the new nehelam 4 core's will sell as below $300

wow its 65nm - that is state of the art!

and it says they may even be able to make a 45nm dual core someday! didn't intel do that last year!

sorry dude to slam this so hard but who cares? my point is who cares - what i mean is what is the difference if its an x2 or p2 its still a dog and its no better then a fx-60 from 2005?

i am confused why this is news?
August 27, 2008 1:59:02 PM

jimmysmitty said:
^Well they are dual cores soe I would expect the TDP to be half. And aren't these K8 cores with just K10 features added on?

But if that is so then they should clock a bit higher I would think anyways.

Guess we shall see.


Yeah, I'm a little disappointed with those GHz, but it looks like those are "Energy Efficient" models, not performance oriented.

Anyway, HT link seemed quite high for a Dual.
August 27, 2008 2:03:46 PM

dragonsprayer said:
wow a 2.3ghz dual core

intel is coming out with a 6 core xeon with hyperthreading 12 core processor

and the new nehelam 4 core's will sell as below $300

wow its 65nm - that is state of the art!

and it says they may even be able to make a 45nm dual core someday! didn't intel do that last year!

sorry dude to slam this so hard but who cares? my point is who cares - what i mean is what is the difference if its an x2 or p2 its still a dog and its no better then a fx-60 from 2005?

i am confused why this is news?


My feeling is almost the same of yours. Anyway, it's news for AMD and with a TDP of 45W it can be worth remembering (as long as it beats an equally clocked X2). Besides, X2s are already "well known" and AMD could unleash some nice marketing campaign for those Kumas.

Not that they have a marketing department at all.
August 27, 2008 2:04:01 PM

jimmysmitty said:
^Well they are dual cores soe I would expect the TDP to be half. And aren't these K8 cores with just K10 features added on?

But if that is so then they should clock a bit higher I would think anyways.

Guess we shall see.



i still do not get it - what does it matter if its k8 or k9 its still a bow wow - lol! little jke here!

tdp? is it a lap top chip? who cares intel has 3ghz lap top chipse and new ones coming?

what are k10 features? over heating bad bios? its a cpu all that matters is data in data out.

maybe it has features like an ice maker? or ciguretter lighter - you mean features like that?


i do not get why any one would even use a dual core - first off

THE BIGGEST MISCONCEPTION TODAY IS DUAL CORE IS ALL YOU NEED, quad core running single thread apps still benfits from 4 cores with 10-20 background process going on in any computer any!

anything less then a quad is no news!

we moving to 4core with hyperthreading and 32nm - who cares if its k9 or k10 or it has a cig lighter or an icemaker

how fast is crysis? that matters!
how fast can you render 3-d?
how fast does it boot?

how good does mutlitask!

wow can you tell i did not sleep but 3 hours! i better go back to bed and howl!
August 27, 2008 2:05:21 PM

dattimr said:
My feeling is almost the same of yours. Anyway, it's news for AMD and with a TDP of 45W it can be worth remembering (as long as it beats an equally clocked X2). Besides, X2s are already "well known" and AMD could unleash some nice marketing campaign for those Kumas.

Not that they have a marketing department at all.



i get a 20 socket atom mobo and run 20 atoms a 1 w that will smoke it!

i better get some sleep before the mods yell at me again!

nice come back!
August 27, 2008 2:21:41 PM

dragonsprayer said:
i get a 20 socket atom mobo and run 20 atoms a 1 w that will smoke it!

i better get some sleep before the mods yell at me again!

nice come back!


But then you wouldn't have a fancy green "balanced platform"! : P

Quote:
THE BIGGEST MISCONCEPTION TODAY IS DUAL CORE IS ALL YOU NEED, quad core running single thread apps still benfits from 4 cores with 10-20 background process going on in any computer any!


Well, Dual Core is a *lot* more than what Joe A. needs. Could you imagine a standard user with something like, hmm, say an E8200?

It's insane.

Besides, that 10-20 background process thing is usually overrated. Probably they're much more RAM and HD dependant than CPU. I'm running a X2 4400+ at home and it barely goes above 30% in Vista if I'm not gaming or running some serious websites.

Quote:
we moving to 4core with hyperthreading and 32nm - who cares if its k9 or k10 or it has a cig lighter or an icemaker


Surely, I'm interested in that. But comparing my poor good old rig (X2 4400+, 2 GB Ram 800 MHz CAS 5, 690v integrated graphics and SATAII HD Samsung 250 GBs) with my friend's (Q9300 @ 3.2 GHz, 2 GB Ram 1066 MHz CAS 5, P35 mobo, 9600GT and 2 SATAII HDs) I can barely feel any difference in responsiveness while using the OS, unless I'm using more than 5 heavy softwares at the same time.

I probably boot faster than him, although he kicks my ass big time while gaming, encoding and so on.

Besides, I don't think that things like MS Word or your office's general software will ever get multithreaded. But that's just my 2 cents.

An Octo-Core with 16 threads at 32nm would be nice, though. : P
August 27, 2008 2:26:00 PM

dragonsprayer said:
i still do not get it - what does it matter if its k8 or k9 its still a bow wow - lol! little jke here!

tdp? is it a lap top chip? who cares intel has 3ghz lap top chipse and new ones coming?

what are k10 features? over heating bad bios? its a cpu all that matters is data in data out.

maybe it has features like an ice maker? or ciguretter lighter - you mean features like that?


i do not get why any one would even use a dual core - first off

THE BIGGEST MISCONCEPTION TODAY IS DUAL CORE IS ALL YOU NEED, quad core running single thread apps still benfits from 4 cores with 10-20 background process going on in any computer any!

anything less then a quad is no news!

we moving to 4core with hyperthreading and 32nm - who cares if its k9 or k10 or it has a cig lighter or an icemaker

how fast is crysis? that matters!
how fast can you render 3-d?
how fast does it boot?

how good does mutlitask!

wow can you tell i did not sleep but 3 hours! i better go back to bed and howl!


lol looks like you were on cocaine when you wrote this... Racing thoughts much? no paragraphs? who cares about quads for most tasks anyways, its not like all your backround programs use more than 5% of a core's processing power anyway. >or did I miss something, and this is all sarcasm?< :sarcastic: 
a c 127 à CPUs
a b À AMD
August 27, 2008 2:29:33 PM

Yea but they have it named Phenom instead of Athlon so that will hinder its marketing a bit.

It does matter because I want to know if AMD is just rehashing 5 year old technology and going to be selling it at a bit higher price and those who don't know will upgrade to this even though its not worth it.

I still think AMD should have gone dual core first with K10 and then quad core. They would have been doing much better right now.
August 27, 2008 2:35:29 PM

why all the secrets? why all the background talk? one thing AMD is seriously lacking is good marketing. that's if they going to launch these parts at all cuz i thought Kuma was canceled.
August 27, 2008 2:35:52 PM

I guess I shouldn't mention the news out of the UK that Phenom FX may be 4GHz and up. This is good news that K8 is going bye-bye. The fact that it will have L3 means that it will be the same increase as Phenom. Now all they need to do is update Griffin with Stars and K8 is gone - except for Sempron.
August 27, 2008 2:37:43 PM

jimmysmitty said:
Yea but they have it named Phenom instead of Athlon so that will hinder its marketing a bit.

It does matter because I want to know if AMD is just rehashing 5 year old technology and going to be selling it at a bit higher price and those who don't know will upgrade to this even though its not worth it.

I still think AMD should have gone dual core first with K10 and then quad core. They would have been doing much better right now.


Completely agreed. Most people wouldn't ever care so much about Quads, no matter if they had a "true" or "double cheeseburguer" design or how low Phenom X4's prices could go (and it's not that much). Yet, they would benefit much more from a Dual with reasonable clocks, TDP and low price.
August 27, 2008 2:43:00 PM

BaronMatrix said:
I guess I shouldn't mention the news out of the UK that Phenom FX may be 4GHz and up. This is good news that K8 is going bye-bye. The fact that it will have L3 means that it will be the same increase as Phenom. Now all they need to do is update Griffin with Stars and K8 is gone - except for Sempron.


Hasn't the nice UK been drinking some kool-aid lately, Baron?

Well, I posted that on "More Deneb Leaks" - and that's by far the most stupidly idiot "preview" I have ever seen.

Here's the link, if you care or haven't seen yet: http://reviewage.co.uk/content/view/33/1/

No way. Sorry. At least not by this "preview".
August 27, 2008 2:45:11 PM

these processors sound more like laptop parts
a c 127 à CPUs
a b À AMD
August 27, 2008 2:51:09 PM

BaronMatrix said:
I guess I shouldn't mention the news out of the UK that Phenom FX may be 4GHz and up. This is good news that K8 is going bye-bye. The fact that it will have L3 means that it will be the same increase as Phenom. Now all they need to do is update Griffin with Stars and K8 is gone - except for Sempron.


Yea and I should mention that there was nothing but a CPU-Z cut out, no validation or screenshots of the chip itself. Don't tell me you are falling for that. You should be better than that BM, even if you are a fan of AMD.

Now I can't wait to see Theo Valitch (however you spell his name) to rave about this like he does everything else.....

dattimr said:
Completely agreed. Most people wouldn't ever care so much about Quads, no matter if they had a "true" or "double cheeseburguer" design or how low Phenom X4's prices could go (and it's not that much). Yet, they would benefit much more from a Dual with reasonable clocks, TDP and low price.


I agree. If we ran AMD they wouldn't be in as much of a sh*t hole because they would have a bit better income from the dual cores selling more. If they had released K10 duals that easily competed with Conroe C2D and was just behind Penryn C2D then they would easily be able to compete on a performance/watt/price level. But instead they wanted to go the hard route, run into problems and make less per CPU than they could have.

Sometimes I swear there are idiots running some companies.
August 27, 2008 2:53:28 PM

dattimr said:
Hasn't the nice UK been drinking some kool-aid lately, Baron?

Well, I posted that on "More Deneb Leaks" - and that's by far the most stupidly idiot "preview" I have ever seen.

Here's the link, if you care or haven't seen yet: http://reviewage.co.uk/content/view/33/1/

No way. Sorry. At least not by this "preview".



KoolAid?

Baaahhhh, sheep. I made no mention of whether it was true. I just stated what I've heard. I guess they could have faked the CPUz shot. I've seen the link, just didn't post it. I think you are in the Intel kool aid.
August 27, 2008 2:56:35 PM

jimmysmitty said:
Yea and I should mention that there was nothing but a CPU-Z cut out, no validation or screenshots of the chip itself. Don't tell me you are falling for that. You should be better than that BM, even if you are a fan of AMD.

Now I can't wait to see Theo Valitch (however you spell his name) to rave about this like he does everything else.....



I agree. If we ran AMD they wouldn't be in as much of a sh*t hole because they would have a bit better income from the dual cores selling more. If they had released K10 duals that easily competed with Conroe C2D and was just behind Penryn C2D then they would easily be able to compete on a performance/watt/price level. But instead they wanted to go the hard route, run into problems and make less per CPU than they could have.

Sometimes I swear there are idiots running some companies.




CPUs don't just pop out of executive's a$$es. AMDs problem was not making enough mobile chips at the end of 2006. I remember when the news about 4000 having 800 stream processors broke and no one believed it. Maybe it's about to happen with CPUs also. But then of course not since AMD can't even make a native quad core at 65nm.

They should just close up shop so jimmy has no one to complain about.
August 27, 2008 3:04:56 PM

BaronMatrix said:
KoolAid?

Baaahhhh, sheep. I made no mention of whether it was true. I just stated what I've heard. I guess they could have faked the CPUz shot. I've seen the link, just didn't post it. I think you are in the Intel kool aid.


Why would I? Because they have 3+ GHz working quads on the shelves right now? I'm not talking Nehalem's performance or possible clocks, but rather seeing what I can buy nowadays on retail.

Yeah, I noticed your use of "may", but given the notorious quality of that website - especially since even chinese are only talking 3.2 GHz Denebs and I haven't read anything about that being at stock - I think it would require me to be a little more than optimistic to believe that. 4 GHz is almost a 50% increase over what AMD can offer right now. Sorry, but I think that's too much - even for my enthusiast heart.

Anyway, Intel sheeps don't post possible good news about AMD. ; D
a c 127 à CPUs
a b À AMD
August 27, 2008 3:20:09 PM

BaronMatrix said:
CPUs don't just pop out of executive's a$$es. AMDs problem was not making enough mobile chips at the end of 2006. I remember when the news about 4000 having 800 stream processors broke and no one believed it. Maybe it's about to happen with CPUs also. But then of course not since AMD can't even make a native quad core at 65nm.

They should just close up shop so jimmy has no one to complain about.


Was I complaining? No. I just stated it seems fake. Going from a top "stock" speed of 2.6GHz to a 4GHz chip? Now come on thats hard to believe.

I for one was one of the few who believed that ATIs R700 was going to tout 800 shaders. Considering the jump from 48 unified shaders to 320 unified shaders from R500 to R600 it was feasable.

I was more skepticle about them having the 1GHz GPU core though. 2GHz GDDR5, sure. But 1GHz core is still a bit away even on the OC editions.
August 27, 2008 3:20:53 PM

jimmysmitty said:
Sometimes I swear there are idiots running some companies.


Well, I'm pretty sure about that and the rest you talked too. Why go for an awesome native Quad when you simply can't afford to? Make money where it is at (low/mid-end, Duals) and then you improve your design accordingly, taking into consideration the size of your company, market situation, margins and engineering capabilities.

Uber fail.

BaronMatrix said:
CPUs don't just pop out of executive's a$$es. AMDs problem was not making enough mobile chips at the end of 2006. I remember when the news about 4000 having 800 stream processors broke and no one believed it. Maybe it's about to happen with CPUs also. But then of course not since AMD can't even make a native quad core at 65nm.

They should just close up shop so jimmy has no one to complain about.


Well, orders come from their a$$es and I'd bet they wouldn't have gone for that "true quad" crap if not by someone's orders (who might that be???). We remember the news about 4000s having a damn good performance and it was true. I remember 4870X2 going for a shared memory pool and almost 70% scaling and it wasn't true.

BTW, what's the point of making a native quad core at 65nm and almost go bankrupt?
August 27, 2008 3:30:50 PM

Kuma or Phenom X2 with low TDP makes perfect sense. If they are cheap enough they can go to office/OEM machines. They are barcelonas with 2 cores shut down. This increase yields. Instead of trashing every chip that comes defective, they sell Phenom X4,X3, X2, and i bet they will launch some version in a X1 fashion. If you say that is crap, talk to IBM and Sony, that produce Cell with 8 cores but only effectively use 7. And they do this to increase yields.

I see no problem with this.

Really, why trash them ? They get sold anyway. And btw, You don't need to have a 8 core/16 thread cpu to the normal use.
Im still using a X2, and very happy with it. For now. Being a fan or a fanatic are very different things.
You would be amazed what i do here at work with a Clawhammer 3700+.

At the Dened FUD at 4 Ghz, anybody bored at work could do it. Just need to download GPUz and use "skillz" in Paint. And im a AMD Fan.


a c 102 à CPUs
August 27, 2008 3:38:43 PM

dragonsprayer said:
i still do not get it - what does it matter if its k8 or k9 its still a bow wow - lol! little jke here!

tdp? is it a lap top chip? who cares intel has 3ghz lap top chipse and new ones coming?


That 3 GHz laptop chip has a 44-watt TDP if I remember correctly. Sure, it might be fast, but it's only really a viable option for people who want to relive the glory days of 2" thick, 10-pound notebooks with 90-minute battery lives in the era of P4 notebooks back in 2001-2003.

Quote:
what are k10 features? over heating bad bios? its a cpu all that matters is data in data out.


That kind of thinking led Intel to make the P4. Cost and thermal dissipation are big issues as well, especially thermal dissipation as notebooks outsell desktops.

Quote:
i do not get why any one would even use a dual core - first off

THE BIGGEST MISCONCEPTION TODAY IS DUAL CORE IS ALL YOU NEED, quad core running single thread apps still benfits from 4 cores with 10-20 background process going on in any computer any!


It all depends on how much CPU time those processes use. If you have 10-20 background processes each using 1% of a single CPU core's time (which is a lot as most are sleeping and use no CPU time at any given moment), then a dual-core CPU will still have 80-90% of its clock cycles unused on the second core, assuming the single-threaded app uses all 100% of the cycles on the first core.

Quote:
anything less then a quad is no news!


Not true. Probably the most talked-about CPUs lately are single-core units- the Intel Atom, AMD Athlon 64 2000+/Sempron U200 and U210, and the Via Nano.

Quote:
how fast is crysis? that matters!
how fast can you render 3-d?


Those are things only a handful of people use their computer to do. Most people ask "how much does it cost?," "how fast can it open Firefox or my Word document?" and don't want to have an obscenely hot or noisy laptop with a poor battery life.

Quote:
how fast does it boot?


Booting is a task that's very much HDD I/O-limited. A 1.5 GHz CPU with an SSD that can pump out 300 MB/sec r/w speeds will beat a 4.0 GHz CPU hooked to an average ~80 MB/sec r/w 7200 rpm HDD in boot speed.

Quote:
how good does mutlitask!


Most people only run one "heavy" application at a time (if they run any that really stress the system) and most of those are single-threaded, so a dual will have idle cores just the same as a quad to put another single-threaded app on. General responsiveness is much more of a function of hard drive performance and OS design than number of cores in those relatively lightly-loaded scenarios. The heavy programs most people run generally are ones run by themselves. You can't do much else with a computer when you're playing a full-screen game. You can't do a ton with a typical desktop computer when you're working with video as your HDD is being slammed for I/O.

If you are doing a bunch of heavy multithreaded tasks like compiling or video rendering, of course you want more cores. But you most likely want a LOT more cores than four in that case as those tasks scale well to a lot of cores. So why not get a machine that's specifically designed for those tasks like a dual-socket workstation? A dual-quad-core system will wipe a single quad-core desktop running several apps that are multithreaded. Single-processor quads really are only useful when using a few select programs that have 3 or 4 threads or by using it as a cheap workstation for running several long-running, non-I/O-intensive programs at once when you don't want to or can't pony up for a much faster multi-socket system.
a c 127 à CPUs
a b À AMD
August 27, 2008 3:52:01 PM

radnor said:
Kuma or Phenom X2 with low TDP makes perfect sense. If they are cheap enough they can go to office/OEM machines. They are barcelonas with 2 cores shut down. This increase yields. Instead of trashing every chip that comes defective, they sell Phenom X4,X3, X2, and i bet they will launch some version in a X1 fashion. If you say that is crap, talk to IBM and Sony, that produce Cell with 8 cores but only effectively use 7. And they do this to increase yields.

I see no problem with this.

Really, why trash them ? They get sold anyway. And btw, You don't need to have a 8 core/16 thread cpu to the normal use.
Im still using a X2, and very happy with it. For now. Being a fan or a fanatic are very different things.
You would be amazed what i do here at work with a Clawhammer 3700+.

At the Dened FUD at 4 Ghz, anybody bored at work could do it. Just need to download GPUz and use "skillz" in Paint. And im a AMD Fan.


How does it increase yield to shove a quad core in a package and disable half of them? Well I guess so but I would hope that they are not having that many quads failing.

And I hope they don't do a single core. The market foer single cores is coming to a close even in the very low end. Nehalem is supposed to have a dual core as its lowest end CPU and thats targeted for business machines (with the GPU on the package) and low end OEMs.
August 27, 2008 3:58:46 PM

dattimr said:
Well, I'm pretty sure about that and the rest you talked too. Why go for an awesome native Quad when you simply can't afford to? Make money where it is at (low/mid-end, Duals) and then you improve your design accordingly, taking into consideration the size of your company, market situation, margins and engineering capabilities.

Uber fail.



Well, orders come from their a$$es and I'd bet they wouldn't have gone for that "true quad" crap if not by someone's orders (who might that be???). We remember the news about 4000s having a damn good performance and it was true. I remember 4870X2 going for a shared memory pool and almost 70% scaling and it wasn't true.

BTW, what's the point of making a native quad core at 65nm and almost go bankrupt?



K10 had NOTHING TO DO WITH AMDs losses. The problem was that Intel dropped the bottom out of the desktop by pricing E6400 where they did. E6400 was faster than basically EVERY PD. Intel knew they could handle it better, but they did have to layoff people and sell businesses until they could get 45nm going.

I remember seeing a volume gain but no revenue gain in 2007-08. No that they have 45nm producing more chips per die, they are starting to increase revenue. AMD did the same thing and they even did it AFTER Intel to keep their employees working and there were still complaints.

It all just reminds me of a weird double standard promoted by Intel. That's why I don't buy Intel.
August 27, 2008 4:05:10 PM

jimmysmitty said:
How does it increase yield to shove a quad core in a package and disable half of them? Well I guess so but I would hope that they are not having that many quads failing.


If they are damaged they were trash. Now they are Kuma. Increase productivity. Phenom is being produced for quite sometime and only now Kuma is being "announced". I guess they will be scarce, but hey, better than trashed. Don't bash AMD over it, it is being done by all the chipmakers over the years. GPUs included.

jimmysmitty said:

And I hope they don't do a single core. The market foer single cores is coming to a close even in the very low end. Nehalem is supposed to have a dual core as its lowest end CPU and thats targeted for business machines (with the GPU on the package) and low end OEMs.


I guess they wont "do" a single core. If it ever gets launched it because they lost less money selling it than trashing it. Honestly i hope they make it, because you know, the world isn't just EU/USA. THere are poorer countries aswell, and they do find computers nifty. If it ever gets launched will be a 20-25W TDP part. Low Cost, Low Power, availability. Im seeing that X1 CPU going to a barebone or all-in-one wonder HTPC. Won't play crysis, but won't be trash.

Where did you think they got the Athlon 2000+ 8w ? From defective X2 of course. Downclocked, one core, and you got there a low TDP CPU !!! Might the fate of Phenoms X1 when they have enough of them to launch a line. Smart move.
August 27, 2008 4:10:13 PM

radnor said:
Kuma or Phenom X2 with low TDP makes perfect sense. If they are cheap enough they can go to office/OEM machines. They are barcelonas with 2 cores shut down. This increase yields. Instead of trashing every chip that comes defective, they sell Phenom X4,X3, X2, and i bet they will launch some version in a X1 fashion. If you say that is crap, talk to IBM and Sony, that produce Cell with 8 cores but only effectively use 7. And they do this to increase yields.

I see no problem with this.

Really, why trash them ? They get sold anyway. And btw, You don't need to have a 8 core/16 thread cpu to the normal use.
Im still using a X2, and very happy with it. For now. Being a fan or a fanatic are very different things.
You would be amazed what i do here at work with a Clawhammer 3700+.

At the Dened FUD at 4 Ghz, anybody bored at work could do it. Just need to download GPUz and use "skillz" in Paint. And im a AMD Fan.



I still use a 4400+ and I love it. FUD is not what you define it as. We don't know what AMD is doing at Fab36 so it's possible that they have improved the transistors enough to get to 4GHz. People are reporting on Newegg that they are getting 3.2GHz on 790GX at stock voltage with 9950. The big problem is not the clock speed it's the power as we have seen GPUs using 200W.

I don't think they are turning off two cores because Kuma is what Shrike is going to be. Stars cores with the current Griffin NB. I said in the other thread that they would need to get Kuma out first so they can then undervolt for Turion Ultra. I expect that around Q109 they will announce the 45nm Kuma and then the RV870 around early Q2 for Shrike.

Now they just need to cancel all K8s and make them Kuma. I figure it will take awhile to sell down inventory and switch out masks, but K8 is basically dead now with this announcement. There are only two Windsors left on Newegg. I can assume also that they didn't want to release until they were at the same power. The added circuitry and L3 probably boosted power by 5% or so.
August 27, 2008 7:11:41 PM

It seems strange that on MSI website, CPU support table of AM2+ boards only lists one Kuma CPU: Athlon 6500 B3 stepping with 11.5 multi (2.3GHz) and TDP of 95W.
!