Gamers help me build my system!

[adreen]

I'm not really too budget restricted...but I want a bang-for-buck kinda of comp. Not over the top hardcore system.
I haven't done a lot of research, but I put together something I thought was a pretty solid machine, any suggestions for brands/parts/anything are welcome!
Keep in mind I'm not much of an ethusiast, no overclocking or tweaking at all, just out of the box performance. I'm an Asus/Antec fanboy aswell

Hard Drive : $120 WD Raptor 36GB 10k, I'm not worried about storage size as I have other HDs https://www.esng.ca/productDetail.php?pid=170200195001&isid=3844#
edit : going with seagate 32mb cache 7200rpm 500gb hard drive. since it's faster than a 10k rpm raptor? *shocked* http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=014525&cid=HD.443.877

Memory : $130 Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2-800mhz 4GB 4-4-4-12 (2x2gb sticks) http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=018904&cid=RAM.346.307
For my RAM, since I'm not going to overclock it, is it necessary to have low timings for RAM? Or will a set of valueRAM give the same performance? Also I went with ddr2-800 because it's cheap and not much of a performance diff with going higher? Or am I wrong?
edit: i think i'm going for OZC reaper 1066mhz instead, cheaper with mail in rebate and is faster/good timings aswell, $123 after mail in rebate http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=017451&cid=RAM.346.754

Motherboard : $148 after mail-in-rebate, Asus P5K Premium http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=015456&cid=MB.157
I have NO CLUE, what separates mobos besides FSB support/DDR2-3 support, and quad/tri video cards. What's the best mobo I can get based on my system parts? I'm going to run a 4870 for sure, and probably crossfire it when it gets cheaper. Any thoughts? Also, with nVidia SLI mobos, does that mean it only works with Nvidia GPUs? or can i slap on two radeons?
edit: decided to go with a x38 mobo after reading a little more, asus P5E, $232 http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=016083&cid=MB.157

Case : $100 Antec Nine Hundred Case http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=011391&cid=CS.664

PSU : $125 Antec neopower 650 , http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=015141&cid=PS.808
No idea here as well what I need, so I went for a top of the line Antec to make sure i got enough juice
edit : decided to go with corsair TX750W, http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=015709&cid=PS.808 $105 after rebate

CPU : $337 Intel Q9450 12mb L2cache, 1333mhz fsb, and 2.66ghz https://www.esng.ca/productDetail.php?category=Processors%20-%20CPU&subcategory=&pid=734200034263&isid=8013
This just looks mighty appealing...huge L2 cache, quad-core, and 1333mhz fsb, yummers.

GPU : $270 Sapphire Radeon 4870 512mb GDDR5, https://www.esng.ca/productDetail.php?pid=719300034319&isid=8062
I know this promotion is going to expire by the time I buy it, but whateverssss.

Sound Card : Can anyone recommend one for me? I'm running a logitech 5.1 x-540, http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=011908&cid=SP.323
I'm not that big on sound. As long as it's not distorted.

Total = $1230 CAD, which seems good for what I'm getting, or am I drunk?
edit : $1287 with revisions...


Thanks for any advice!!!

 

[shadowduck]

Well if you really want a "bangs for bucks" computer lose the Raptor. It is no faster then current 7200RPM hard drives but costs way more.

DDR2-800 is fine. 4-4-4-12 timings are preferable because it means increased performance.

Best motherboard for you would be Asus P5Q-E or if you are thinking of Crossfiring look at the Asus P5E Deluxe.

You don't need a sourd card- onboard sound is just fine.

Antec makes good PSUs but you can do better.

Look at the Corsair 550VX- or if you plan to Crossfire at anytime in the future look at the PC Power and Cooling Quad 750.

 

[adreen]

Well if you really want a "bangs for bucks" computer lose the Raptor. It is no faster then current 7200RPM hard drives but costs way more.

DDR2-800 is fine. 4-4-4-12 timings are preferable because it means increased performance.

Best motherboard for you would be Asus P5Q-E or if you are thinking of Crossfiring look at the Asus P5E Deluxe.

You don't need a sourd card- onboard sound is just fine.

Antec makes good PSUs but you can do better.

Look at the Corsair 550VX- or if you plan to Crossfire at anytime in the future look at the PC Power and Cooling Quad 750.

thanks for the quick response
i could've sworn when i did my research 2 years ago but settled for a laptop instead, that raptors were superior to 7200RPM hard drives? i guess it's changed?
i guess u replied before i made the revisions, but i decided to go with the p5e non-deluxe, since the deluxe is 100 bucks more and supports ddr3, but i'm using ddr2.
is this a wise choice? should i be going with ddr2 instead of ddr3? also...is ddr2-800 at 4-4-4-12 better than ddr2-1066 at 5-5-5-18? the 1066 actually costs less than the 800.
is aftermarket cooling products such as thermal compounds and cpu/gpu fans necessary for a non-overlocker? or will stock be fine.

 

[shadowduck]

Actually.. no- P5E Deluxe is just an x48 version of the P5E. Canada Computers does not sell it though. So just stick with P5E.

DDR2-800 at 4-4-4-12 almost the same as 1066 at 5-5-5-1x. 1066 RAM has more issues with motherboards though since it is not an official standard.

Stock fan is fine- I would get rid of Intel's useless thermal pad though and apply from MX-2 thermal grease.

 

[adreen]

Actually.. no- P5E Deluxe is just an x48 version of the P5E. Canada Computers does not sell it though. So just stick with P5E.

DDR2-800 at 4-4-4-12 almost the same as 1066 at 5-5-5-1x. 1066 RAM has more issues with motherboards though since it is not an official standard.

Stock fan is fine- I would get rid of Intel's useless thermal pad though and apply from MX-2 thermal grease.

i'm gonna go with the 1066 since it's cheaper and should be faster :S
what's the difference between x48 and x38? i'm so lost nowadays.
how is my setup? is there a better alternative? i really don't know much about new tech. thanks for the help

 

[aevm]

P5E Deluxe x48 takes DDR2. But sure, if the P5E X38 is cheaper go for it, it's good too.

Two years ago they weren't using perpendicular magnetic recording yet. Modern disks like the Velociraptor and the WD6400AAKS and WD7500AAKS are very fast, they beat that old Raptor in lots of benchmarks.

Stock is fine as long as the CPU is retail and not OEM. If it's OEM you won't get a stock cooler.

Excellent idea with the 750TX. It's only $100 at ncix, and if you live in Ontario you only pay 5% GST there, no PST.

X48 is like X38 but with official support for 1600fsb and higher binned. You don't care since you won't overclock. No major differences.

 

[adreen]

P5E Deluxe x48 takes DDR2. But sure, if the P5E X38 is cheaper go for it, it's good too.

Two years ago they weren't using perpendicular magnetic recording yet. Modern disks like the Velociraptor and the WD6400AAKS and WD7500AAKS are very fast, they beat that old Raptor in lots of benchmarks.

Stock is fine as long as the CPU is retail and not OEM. If it's OEM you won't get a stock cooler.

Excellent idea with the 750TX. It's only $100 at ncix, and if you live in Ontario you only pay 5% GST there, no PST.

X48 is like X38 but with official support for 1600fsb and higher binned. You don't care since you won't overclock. No major differences.

i picked out a seagate 3.0gb 32mb cache 500gb hard drive, i actually only require about 100gb, but the 32mb cache is worth it right? or should i just go with a 16mb cache and like 200gb or lower?

thanks for explaining! that was very helpful! would it be worth to future proof by getting a x48 board since it takes both ddr3 and ddr2. that way when ddr3 finally doesn't suck i could swap out RAM? i should have no problems running crossfire 4870s with my setup correct? thanks again!

 

[aevm]

Seagate's 500GB is a good drive. Just avoid Seagate's 320GB model and WD's 500GB. The cache doesn't really make a difference, in the benchmarks I've seen.

Try to avoid any motherboard that supports both DDR2 and DDR3. You can't use both at the same time, so you'd have to throw out the DDR2 to start using DDR3. The performance is very close anyway, which makes DDR3 pointless at current prices. Also, motherboards with dual support cost more and tend to have more issues. If you want X48, either P5E Deluxe or GA-X48-DS4 would be just fine.

HD 4870 CF: any x38 or x48 MB, 750TX, Antec 900 - yeah, you've got all you need for best results.

Maybe look at the RC-690 case too. It has all the advantages of the Antec 900, it's a bit cheaper usually, and it doesn't have the lights. Of course, if you LIKE the lights, the Antec 900 is perfect for you.

 

[adreen]

Seagate's 500GB is a good drive. Just avoid Seagate's 320GB model and WD's 500GB. The cache doesn't really make a difference, in the benchmarks I've seen.

Try to avoid any motherboard that supports both DDR2 and DDR3. You can't use both at the same time, so you'd have to throw out the DDR2 to start using DDR3. The performance is very close anyway, which makes DDR3 pointless at current prices. Also, motherboards with dual support cost more and tend to have more issues. If you want X48, either P5E Deluxe or GA-X48-DS4 would be just fine.

HD 4870 CF: any x38 or x48 MB, 750TX, Antec 900 - yeah, you've got all you need for best results.

Maybe look at the RC-690 case too. It has all the advantages of the Antec 900, it's a bit cheaper usually, and it doesn't have the lights. Of course, if you LIKE the lights, the Antec 900 is perfect for you.

I am actually the type of person who would throw out/sell/give away ddr2 and replace it with ddr3, when ddr3 is cheaper/alot better performance. i'd like to future proof my investment. i've never had a comp with flashy lights, so i am somewhat impartial...the case i really want is the antec p182, but the cost diff doesn't make a whole lot of sense...or does it? i guess it would be alot quieter with the extra thick walls, especially running the 4870...would it also run cooler? with the psu located on the bottom. what do u think?

i actually don't need this comp right now, as i have a decently powered laptop already. is there anything impressive on the horizon for computer technology? or any hardware intensive games coming out soon? i should probably save my money huh and wait until d3 comes out huh.

 

[aevm]

Intel's Nehalem CPUs and motherboards will show up later this year. Probably $1000+ CPUs first, unfortunately. There will be an X58 chipset for it. NVidia will have Direct X 10.1 support, finally, early next year. By March 2009 TSMC will have 40nm technology in use for both nVidia and ATI cards, so we can expect some monster cards that consume less than today's best cards and run cooler and still beat them soundly. AMD's CPUs will also be much nicer in 6 months, I'm sure. Games - Diablo 3 will be out in 2010. Spore has been promised for this year.

But then, there's always something better coming. You'll get your new PC when you're old and your eyesight and reflexes suck, if you keep waiting

 

[adreen]

Intel's Nehalem CPUs and motherboards will show up later this year. Probably $1000+ CPUs first, unfortunately. There will be an X58 chipset for it. NVidia will have Direct X 10.1 support, finally, early next year. By March 2009 TSMC will have 40nm technology in use for both nVidia and ATI cards, so we can expect some monster cards that consume less than today's best cards and run cooler and still beat them soundly. AMD's CPUs will also be much nicer in 6 months, I'm sure. Games - Diablo 3 will be out in 2010. Spore has been promised for this year.

But then, there's always something better coming. You'll get your new PC when you're old and your eyesight and reflexes suck, if you keep waiting

haha, that's true. but nehalem is a completely different animal, should be worth it. hopefully my laptop can handle sc2 soi can settle and buy the beast later. :\

 

[zipz0p]

I like my P-182 a lot. It's considerably less flashy than many cases and is whisper quiet with fans on low. When you turn the fans up, it does make some noticeable noise, though, and I'm considering the expensive option of replacing the Antec fans with Noctua fans if I really feel anal about it. I had some issues getting my Corsair 550VX installed (it didn't fit very well in the bracket), but after those initial issues, it's worked great. After-market coolers are great for keeping your components cooler and quieter and generally increasing the airflow through your case and over the non-actively cooled components on your motherboard. This is crucial for overclocking, but I guess that's not a big concern to you.

 

[shadowduck]

i'm gonna go with the 1066 since it's cheaper and should be faster :S

Won't make one bit of difference. Since you are not overclocking the RAM will run at the speed of the FSB. FSB1333 or DDR2-667.

Hell, if you are not overclocking and never plan to, just go ahead and buy DDR2-667 RAM with tight timings. Being 1:1 FSB to RAM is the preferable option anyway.

 

[adreen]

Won't make one bit of difference. Since you are not overclocking the RAM will run at the speed of the FSB. FSB1333 or DDR2-667.

Hell, if you are not overclocking and never plan to, just go ahead and buy DDR2-667 RAM with tight timings. Being 1:1 FSB to RAM is the preferable option anyway.

is this true? :S
if i don't plan on overclocking should i just go with 667mhz ram!?

 

[aevm]

Yeah, it's true. On the other hand, don't expect it to save you more than a few bucks over DDR2-800. In fact, looking at NCIX right now, lots of DDR2-667 4GB sets cost more than some good 4GB DDR2-800 sets. It doesn't make sense but I swear it 's true.

Here's a pretty good deal:
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=23895&vpn=996587&manufacture=MUSHKIN
Mushkin HP PC2-6400 4GB 2X2GB DDR2-800 CL5-4-4-12, $85

 

[adreen]

does newegg ship to canada? specifically toronto ontario canada?

 

[shadowduck]

No, newegg will not ship outside the US.

 

[Guest]

I would say something about the new hard drive since I considered it in my build. When I read through many many reviews on newegg, I found that it had a consistent "con" where a percentage of the people said that they would hear clicking and grinding and their drive would be dead. It seems like a consistent error, though not a common one.

 

[shadowduck]

Well that would happen with any drive that is going to die with a head crash. The clicking is the read/write heads hitting the platter.

 

[adreen]

Yeah, it's true. On the other hand, don't expect it to save you more than a few bucks over DDR2-800. In fact, looking at NCIX right now, lots of DDR2-667 4GB sets cost more than some good 4GB DDR2-800 sets. It doesn't make sense but I swear it 's true.

Here's a pretty good deal:
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=23895&vpn=996587&manufacture=MUSHKIN
Mushkin HP PC2-6400 4GB 2X2GB DDR2-800 CL5-4-4-12, $85

ok...after reading around and whatnot, i'm convinced that i should overclock my system just a little, to get the most out of my parts. might aswell settle for a system that costs half as much and not OC.
about the ram...i keep seeing the Mushkin HP2 800mhz flying around. what makes them so solid? it's 5-4-4-12 compared to some 4-4-4-12 out there...i'm guessing it is the stock voltage at a measily 1.8V? so that means u can bump up the voltage on the ram to like 2-2.1 which would make it faster? 1066mhz-esque? this would make the timings less sexy right?
so a question with ram...what's more important...lower timings? or lower voltage?
like in this case the mushkin is 5-4-4-12 at 1.8v, while others are 4-4-4-12 at 2.1v.
i've never overclocked anything except for atitools gpu. so forgive my ignorance.

 

[shadowduck]

5-4-4-12 at 1.8 >> 4-4-4-412 at 2.1

 

[adreen]

5-4-4-12 at 1.8 >> 4-4-4-412 at 2.1

as in 5-4-4-12 at 1.8 is GREATER THAN 4-4-4-12 at 2.1? haha, i'm silly

 

[aevm]

"Greater" as in "better". Actually, that particular Mushkin set can do 4-4-4-12 too, but only if you raise the voltage to 2.1V. So, frankly, it's the same. Here are some details:

http://forum.ncix.com/forums/index....id=23895&msgcount=15&overclockid=0#msg1680555

 

[paul101jay]

Dont forget to buy an operation system.

 

[adreen]

"Greater" as in "better". Actually, that particular Mushkin set can do 4-4-4-12 too, but only if you raise the voltage to 2.1V. So, frankly, it's the same. Here are some details:

http://forum.ncix.com/forums/index....id=23895&msgcount=15&overclockid=0#msg1680555

ah....but the mushkin is cheaper and pretty much the same.
haha thanks for the replies aevm/shadowduck, u guys own these forums

one more quick question
if i get ddr2 800 ram, and a 1333mhz fsb cpu...to get them to run at a 1:1 ratio i just bump my fsb to 1600mhz and leave the ram unchanged? ddr2800 = 800x2=1600?
how do you overlock RAM? up the voltages? change the timings? or is there an option to increase the mhz of ram?