New to cooling - Easy to expand on water kits?

[aliasxneo]

So I'm not exactly looking to OC my CPU, but rather just keep it at a stable temperature. I built my current tower about 6-7 months ago and it has been working great. However, one of the problems it has always had is running quite hot. At idle the CPU runs at about 62-65 degrees celsius, which for idle temperature is pretty sad. It can get up to 68-70 degrees celsius under load. This is of course just using a typical Intel Core 2 Duo (e800) that's not been tampered with at all. The heatsink I'm currently using is the one that came with the processor. Besides the fan on the heatsink, I have a fan in the front of the case pulling in air and one at the back pushing it out.

The motherboard I have is incredibly adapted for doing some basic OC'ing. I've always wanted to do a bit of it, but clearly with the temps I'm dealing with right now it's nowhere near ideal. So to fix this problem I've been looking into some basic water cooling kits. Mind you I've never dealt with water cooling before.

The first kit that caught my eye was the Thermaltake ProWater 850i, mostly because of the price to quality ratio. I'm not looking to run a guru system here, just something to help reduce my ridicolous room temperature.

After reading some reviews on the kit, it seems ideal for what I want. The question I have is how easy it is to expand on kits like this. I run dual GFX cards and thus they contribute a lot of heat to the tower and I would love to slap two blocks onto them to help the overall temp of the case. However, I'm not quite sure how I would go about that using a kit. I understand that the tube goes to the block which goes to the radiator and cycles again. However, if I wanted to add another 2 blocks onto the system, how would I go about doing that?

Any help on this matter is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Conumdrum]

All you need is a new Air heatsink for $50 or so. A basic 'good' CPU only watercooling setup thats better than a great air cooled heatsink will set you back about $200, maybe a bit less. That's not the great stuff, but wayyy better than any TT stuff.

A proper WC loop of top parts starts here for a GREAT CPU loop.
A pump for watercooling that you can keep for a longgg time will set you back about $70+. A rad you can build on is about $60, up to $130. A good CPU block, $60. A res, $25+. Hose etc 30+.

You could benefit BIG time for watercooling the GPU's. Noise is gone and GPU's scream. If your gonna do the GPU's, might as well to the CPU too. But now we are talking over $500 very easily. Depending on the GPU's heatload, you might need TWO rads and possibly a fully second loop. Price really climbs then.

Please ohh please DON'T think of buying a Thermaltake kit. I can put you on many forums where every single one of the hundreds of watercoolers will tell you please don't. It's crap.

The TT kit you linked to will reduce your temps on the CPU. It's only a 120x2 size rad, a very inefficient one at that. It, just by physics can't handle the heat from the GPU's added to the loop. Impossible. The TT pump isn't known to be powerful, and the teeny hose won't help flow rates when you attempt to add any more blocks to it.

You DON'T need a watercooling loop. You need a better heatsink and probably better case airflow due to the GPU's. Modern hobby cases have more than two fans. If they are 80mm fans on your case you really really need a new case.

For support and help on getting a new air cooler, learning about watercooling, and maybe a new case, here is a buncha links. OC Forums is my home forum, and a bunch of great folks there.

Guides
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=282232 Pretty up to date info and buying guide
http://gilgameshreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=75:hokiealumnus&catid=40verclocking-and-cooling&Itemid=86 Another good guide
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=312743 What to do once all the stuff is in the door
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=223835 Many build logs on MANY cases, great learning tool.

My latest rig:
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=604016

Forums
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/index.php? Not a noob site, but great stickies
http://www.ocforums.com/ My fav, good peeps, know their stuff, less hardcore
http://www.over-clock.com/ivb/inde [...] opic=20277 A GREAT Europe site
http://www.overclock.net/water-cooling/ Decent site

Tests on equipment, not reviews, truly scientific tests
http://translate.google.com/transl [...] n&ie=UTF-8 Info on rad testing
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=220593 More rad testing
http://skinneelabs.com/ Host for Martins lab and some newer tests
http://www.skinneelabs.com/MartinsLiquidLab/ Test results, very technical


Stores
http://www.dangerden.com
http://www.petrastechshop.com/
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/
http://www.jab-tech.com/
http://www.performance-pcs.com

 

[boulard83]

^^^ nice recomendation here !

Get yourself a good Aircooling like a TRUE ( thermalright ultra 120 extreme ) or anything similar. Good thermal paste, GOOD APPLICATION of the thermal paste and your good to go.

And try to optimize your CASE airflow.

 

[Conumdrum]

I just noticed the Op mentioned his terrible room temp. OP, please tell us about it. So I'm up front, watercooling doesn't make the room cooler. It just removes the heat from the important parts more efficently. Physics still dumps the heat into the room by the rad to air.

My room is ohh 80F a lot of the day. My i7 965 idles at ohh, lemme see.....
Ambient room, 79F, CPU at 41C. And I'm making a LOT more wattage in the CPU right now. My CPU loop would run over $300 as built.

I loaded it up. Even tho I'm idling at 41C, after 5 min of OCCT 3.0.0 Linpack My max was by cores:
60 58 57 59. I'm down to 78F in the room, swamp cooler whole house cooler is cooling the room slowly. Las Vegas in the summer. I could use AC, but a $500 AC bill vs $150 for a few hours of 80F room temps is worth it.

My GPU loop with one GTX 280 (I smoked the second one) is ohh $350 or so. I am looking for a good deal on a replacement GPU. I'm not adding the second GPU WC block not being used, which bumps it to $500 or so for the GPU loop with two WC blocks.

Yea, I'm addicted. Glad I got enuff pennies.

 

[rubix_1011]

^^LOL...me too. I have soooo many parts, blocks, etc laying around and I am always swapping stuff out. Seriously though, I have been really happy with the GTX260 Core 216's I am currently running. Haven't run up against anything they can't handle yet.

 

[aliasxneo]

Thanks for the suggestions.

To be honest I'm actually quite interesting in water cooling, seems like something that would be fun to play around with until I have the right setup. Money at this point really is not the issue, I'm probably looking at a budget of $400-500 for implementing a system that can help cool this puppy down.

I suppose I was rather skimpy on the exact details of what I'm running, so let me lay it out:

CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo e800 wolfdale
GPU: 2 X Asus EN9600GT GeForce (512mb)
Mobo: Asus Rampage Formula LGA 775
PSU: Seasonic SS-550HT
RAM: 2 X 2GB G.Skill DDR2
Tower: Alienware EATX Server Workstation Chassis Case Logo (Grabbed this off ebay)

The tower has a 120mm fan upfront pulling air in and a 120mm fan in the back pushing the air out. Besides that, like I said, there's the fan ontop of the heatsink.

Please keep in mind this is the FIRST computer I've ever built I actually hit my budget quite quickly, and thus I sort of skimmped on cooling (obviously a mistake) in the end. Now that I'm getting fresh money in the bank from the Navy, I'm looking to implement a solid cooling system.

From the research I've done thus far, I can see there's a big war between air and liquid cooling. I've seen guru's OC'ing there CPU's to the max using both air and liquid for cooling. The turf seems pretty confusing for someone new coming in.

From the perspective of a newbie, liquid cooling simply looks rather efficient, but risky at the same time. Air cooling looks simple, but seems a little less effective (mind you this is a total bias).

The two key factors I'm taking into consideration is how cool the system can keep my tower, and how noisy the system is at idle. Right now the 120mm fan on the back is plugged into my mobo and basically stays at high the entire time my computer is on. It's so loud I can easily here it down the hallway and into the kitchen (and that's a pretty lengthy distance).

I'll make sure to go through those links so I can get a better idea of which system is better for me. As I said before, I do intend on doing some OC'ing (if you look up the mobo I have, it's well built for OC'ing), and thus I would like to already have a system that can handle it. If anyone else has any more advice on air or liquid, and how to go about it, it's certainly welcomed. And thanks again for all the comments

P.S I realized how crappy the system I looked at was, and I've been looking at another kit now: http://www.swiftnets.com/products/h20-220-compact.asp

 

[Conumdrum]

Wonderful! You seem like a smart grounded guy. I'll be glad to help.

Off topic: I'm retired AF and my son ships out to hopefully be a sonar tech on a boomer on 6 Aug. He's got the scores and school dates, lets see how he does in Sub school.

The one you linked to would be great on your CPU only loop. The pump is a basic MCP350 with a different top. A MCP 350 is made by Laing, also known as a DDC3.1 I think. Once you move up the food chain and upgrade your loop, that pump top can be replaced, you can mod the pump with a wire to a DDC 3.2. You then can run bigger tubing to better blocks, rads etc.

I'm kinda torn on the GPU's you have. They aren't top notch (meaning monster FPM and heat load. They might be just fine on air. So yea, lets focus on a CPU loop only for now, and that kit is pretty good for starters.

For a real good kit, here is a link. Ohh yea, way mo' money but really really good stuff.
http://www.petrastechshop.com/pecogpuex.html

It's a top 5 CPU block and works great on your chip or a i7.
The rad works great with quieter fans, good stuff.
Pump/res combo is a top MCP 355 (DDC 3.2) with the ever perfect restop. A uber performer and able to handle another rad and a GPU block easy.
All the rest of the parts are just awesome stuff.

As a disclaimer, I have ordered there many times. You get a hand written note, everyone does from Qouc. It's two guys trying to survive. Their pens (not shipped with each order are legendary. They are such nice peeps and care. I emailed Quoc for some special TTape (Seksui?) and he gave me some free since it's not for sale with my fan order.

The items in the list might be bought cheaper with sales etc. Some parts come and go so fast at the WC stores, so look for the best prices. I'm saying they are dedicated to what they sell, that kit is AWESOME, so use that list for a great CPU loop with room for growth. There is a HK 3.0 CPU block that is better if you really need to. But there is a lot of stuff out there, I don't want ya to think that setup is the best, and there are other stores to buy from. But those two guys deserve your business if they meet your needs.

Here is a list of stores, guides, tests. If I posted it already cool, if not, here ya go.
Guides
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=282232 Pretty up to date info and buying guide
http://gilgameshreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=75:hokiealumnus&catid=40verclocking-and-cooling&Itemid=86 Another good guide
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=312743 What to do once all the stuff is in the door
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=223835 Many build logs on MANY cases, great learning tool.

My latest rig:
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=604016

Forums
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/index.php? Not a noob site, but great stickies
http://www.ocforums.com/ My fav, good peeps, know their stuff, less hardcore
http://www.over-clock.com/ivb/inde [...] opic=20277 A GREAT Europe site
http://www.overclock.net/water-cooling/ Decent site

Tests on equipment, not reviews, truly scientific tests
http://translate.google.com/transl [...] n&ie=UTF-8 Info on rad testing
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=220593 More rad testing
http://skinneelabs.com/ Host for Martins lab and some newer tests
http://www.skinneelabs.com/MartinsLiquidLab/ Test results, very technical


Stores
http://www.dangerden.com
http://www.petrastechshop.com/
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/
http://www.jab-tech.com/
http://www.performance-pcs.com

Lets talk cases next. What happened is adding the GPUs into the case overdid your case cooling ability. If you have the CPU and those two GPU's you need TWO 120 fans for intake, and TWO 120 fans for exhaust, and possibly a spot fan or a side fan.

I don't know a ton about cases, I use a uber tech station. I did include a link in my standard link that's for you to really look hard. You can put a 120x3 rad out the back or put it inside the case if you get the right case. If you get the bug you'll want a 120x3 rad for a i7 overclocked and a seperate (TWO loops total pumps etc) for a multiple GPU setup. Meaning a whole 'nother rad to go somewhere.

So for now, look through the links, take your time.

Please register at OC forums and lets move to there, there are a few other really good peeps (some friends with world class overclockers, like world records). I'm the same name. Besides Rubix and Shadow, it's all we really have here for regular posters.

You deserve more.

You'll do very well there. And read a LOT on the links I provided, spend time reading forum threads to get informed.

 

[Conumdrum]

I'd love to go phase, but it's way to complicated. And not a 24/7 thing. No reason for a normal user to need -80C pumped to a CPU. I want quiet, resonable temps. Heck I haven't even overclocked my i7 965 DO ES chip or my GPU's yet. Or replaced my second GTX 280 I smoked. No game needs more than what I have, but looking for the 280 on sale for sure.

So yea, be fun, but I like my PC quiet and cool.

 

[aliasxneo]

Thanks again for the response! I took your advice and registered at the ocforums. I have created another topic there if you're interested: http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?p=6162441#post6162441

At your off topic remark: Funny, since my father is also retired AF and I'm due to ship in January for boot camp and then off to nuke school for training as a nuclear engineer!

 

[Conumdrum]

LOL! My kiddo wanted to do that but didn't want to look at gauges all day, he'd rather look at screens and wanted to fix stuff. Supposedly he'll also be an elec tech also, so mucho school like you. Well he'll be done with boot and Sub school and off to A school before ya join. Ya never know, mebbe you'll see each other.