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How many Watts i need for this kind of computer?

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September 3, 2008 2:23:23 PM

I don't know exactly how much Watts do i need to run this computer very stable and Quiet, yes I don't like noise :non:  Also how many Amps and 12v rails and all that do i really need?

I found two power supplies that caught my attention but I don't which is better and more Quiet:
Thermaltake Puerpower 500W ATX Power Supply
+3.3v = 30A
+5v = 28A
+12v1 = 14A
+12v2 = 15A
-12v = 0.3A
+5vsb = 2.0A

Antec EarthWatts 500w Extra Quiet ATX Power Supply SLI Ready
+3.3v = 24.0A
+5v = 24.0A
+12v1 = 17A
+12v2 = 17A
-12v = 0.8A
+5vsb = 2.5A

I've heard that the amps should be as high as possible and it seems that the thermaltake has more but i don't know.

Do you think I'm in the borderline with 500w and should go for 600w?
I'm not planning to overclock a lot just about from 2.8ghz to 3.2ghz or maybe I'm not.

Intel CPU : Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 2.83GHz, 1333FSB (Quad Core) 12000K

Intel CPU Fans : Cooler Master HyperTX Intel EXTRA QUIET Vertical HeatPipe Copper fan

Intel Motherboards : ASUS P5QC P45, 1600FSB, DDR3 & DDR2, PCI Express, Sound, 1Gb LAN, iEEE

DDR2 memory : 2GB (2x1GB) PC6400 DDR2 800 Dual Channel

Hard Drives : 320.0GB Western Digital 7200RPM SATA2 UDMA 300 16m cache

DVD Recorders : Samsung 20x DVD Recorder Dual Layer +R/RW -R/RW (black)

Sound Cards : AC 97 3D Full Duplex sound card (onboard)

Network Cards : Ethernet network adapter (onboard)

Cases : Thermaltake Soprano DX Black, side window, front USB 2x120mm fans

Video card: HIS ATI HD 3850 GDDR3 Iceq3

OS: Windows Xp Pro Sp3


I won't probably upgrade in the future any part of this computer only the video card anything else stays the same.




More about : watts kind computer

a b ) Power supply
September 3, 2008 2:43:19 PM

The Earthwatts has more amps on the 12V rails, and that's the only one you really need to care about. It should be enough for your setup. However, it will probably not be enough for your next video card.

If you live in the USA, get a 650TX from www.newegg.com.

Have you already bought all those parts? If not, replace the P5QC with a P5Q Pro and the HD 3850 with an HD 4850.

September 3, 2008 3:02:36 PM

Go with the Antec. (Tt can't even make a good heat sink anymore, let alone PSU's) A 500W, or 550W should suit your needs fine.
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September 3, 2008 3:07:56 PM

500W is already overkill for your system, there is no need to go up to 600W.
September 3, 2008 3:20:48 PM

Yes, 500W is more than plenty, and will be for your next video card. As above, the 12V Amps are the most important.
September 3, 2008 3:34:06 PM

It will be for the next available video card BUT you have to take into consideration that if he keeps this pc for 3-4 years and wants to upgrade the video card again he may find himself looking and minimum requirements for a 550 watt psu for the high end by that time. Maybe and maybe not but definitely a possiblilty.

Now is the time to pay a few more bucks for a higher end psu instead of having to buy a totally new one later IMO.

I agree with aevm on this one so go with this psu:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

If you have 20 more bucks to spare go with this one: (way overkill but may not be for the next pc you build)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
a b ) Power supply
September 3, 2008 3:56:42 PM

einstein4pres said:
Yes, 500W is more than plenty, and will be for your next video card. As above, the 12V Amps are the most important.


It depends on what that next video card is. If it's something like HD 4870X2, here's the recommendation from a manufacturer (Visiontek):
Quote:
650 Watt or greater power supply with one 2x3-pin PCIe® power connector and one 2x4-pin PCIe power connector is required (1K Watt with two 2x3-pin and two 2x4-pin connectors for ATI CrossFireX technology in dual mode)
Power Connector 6 pin / 8 pin


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814129114
September 3, 2008 4:41:49 PM

WHAT?????

Q9550 with HD3850? What a shame.

Have you bought this already? You could just go down to a Q6600 and get an HD 4850 and you would greatly improve price/performance.
a c 137 ) Power supply
September 3, 2008 4:45:54 PM

For most basic systems, the vga card and configuration determines what you need for a psu. If the vga card needs just one connector, then a psu with just one connector will suffice. That is the case with the 3870 http://ati.amd.com/products/Radeonhd3800/requirements.h... If you have a stronger single card, or plan on going to crossfire/sli, then you may need 2 or 4 connectors. A quality psu will deliver what is needed, regardless of the wattage specs, and at higher temperatures. Lower quality units advertise watts for marketing purposes, but it is really the 12v amps that is the critical metric.

Foe quiet, it might be good to get a higher powered psu to insure that it does not need to run near it's maximum load where the fan will spin up and make noise.

Go to www.silentpcreview.com for some good info on quiet components. http://www.silentpcreview.com/article699-page1.html

I think my choice would be the Corsair 520HX http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
September 3, 2008 7:56:20 PM

aevm said:
It depends on what that next video card is. If it's something like HD 4870X2, here's the recommendation from a manufacturer (Visiontek):


Yeah, and I remember back when the original Athlon was introduced (1999) AMD recommended a 300W PSU for that. Mine ran fine on 180W and believe you me, that was no super special 180W-PSU, because in those days, a PSU was something that came with the case and if somebody would have asked me what brand it was, I would've called them a moron.
a b ) Power supply
September 3, 2008 8:25:18 PM

Recommendations from manufacturers are padded, that's why it worked for you. If you ignore them and get something 30% smaller, chances are it will work, sure. But, you have a few problems:

1. The PSU will work closer to 100%, meaning more noise, more heat, lower efficiency, higher electricity bills, lower lifetime
2. If something does blow up, the CPu/GPU/MB manufacturer has a great excuse to refuse to honor your warranty
3. If you want to add a disk or a fan or a sound card you risk pushing the PSU over the limit
4. Next time you upgrade you'll probably need to buy a bigger PSU. Personally I'd rather spend $100 on a 750W quality PSu and be done with it for 5 years or more, rather than getting a $60 PSU now and a $80 PSU later.

September 3, 2008 9:46:26 PM

aevm said:
1. The PSU will work closer to 100%, meaning more noise, more heat, lower efficiency, higher electricity bills, lower lifetime.


Wrong. Almost all PSUs reach their highest efficiency the closer they get to 100%. Which means: less noise, less heat, higher efficiency, lower electricity bills. I cannot comment on lifetime, as I have never seen a statistical analysis of average load vs. average lifespan.

aevm said:
2. If something does blow up, the CPu/GPU/MB manufacturer has a great excuse to refuse to honor your warranty


Based on what grounds, legally speaking? The power supply is just a recommendation. There are no laws in place to bide by them. Since almost no hardware manufacturer gives detailed information about how much Amps their product is drawing from the V lines, there is no credible way for the consumer to determine the appropriate size. Even the 650W recommendation is bullsh*t, since it is based solely on the installed GPU.
In the end, it would be the fault of the PSU manufacturer, since they have to build their PSUs in a way that they can't be blown up by overloading. Which most of them do. That's why people with weak-a$$ PSUs usually report about instabilities and not total meltdowns.


aevm said:
3. If you want to add a disk or a fan or a sound card you risk pushing the PSU over the limit


True, but with the specs the thread starter posted, there is enough headroom for a couple of disks or soundcards and whole battalion of fans. Now one could always argue "what if he wants to upgrade to SLI/Skulltrail next week" but by that logic, there is no reason we all shouldn't have 1k PSUs.

aevm said:
4. Next time you upgrade you'll probably need to buy a bigger PSU. Personally I'd rather spend $100 on a 750W quality PSu and be done with it for 5 years or more, rather than getting a $60 PSU now and a $80 PSU later.


Sure, but once again, why stop at 750W? Why not 1000, 1200 or a 1500W monster?
a c 137 ) Power supply
September 3, 2008 11:17:50 PM

1856821,12,125549 said:
Wrong. Almost all PSUs reach their highest efficiency the closer they get to 100%. Which means: less noise, less heat, higher efficiency, lower electricity bills. I cannot comment on lifetime, as I have never seen a statistical analysis of average load vs. average lifespan.

@tim851: I don't think you are correct on this. Here is a typical efficiency curve: http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=3329&p=6 It seems to me that the highest efficiency is in the middle range of output.


September 4, 2008 3:52:04 AM

tim851 said:
Wrong. Almost all PSUs reach their highest efficiency the closer they get to 100%. Which means: less noise, less heat, higher efficiency, lower electricity bills. I cannot comment on lifetime, as I have never seen a statistical analysis of average load vs. average lifespan.

Sorry to disagree with this statement. I think its partially true but honestly, when can you use more power (which generates more heat) be cooler and less expensive to use? That makes no sense and I would like a credible link that proves using a psu at its 100% maxload makes it more efficient, cooler and cheaper to use.




Sure, but once again, why stop at 750W? Why not 1000, 1200 or a 1500W monster?
\

As far as this satement as to why stop at 750 watt? Look at the history and the time frame of power needs and minimum specs of psu's. 5 years ago a 250 to 300 watt psu would power anything you needed for a long time to come, at least it was believed. Those requirements have creaped up incrementally since then and if there was a 600 watt psu available at that time 5 years ago and you could spend 20 more bucks to get one and it still worked when you built your new system now you would most likely be in good shape with the exception of buying connectors for power cables that didnt exist back then. You can argue about when to stop at what wattage but as with anything its a guess as to even if the part you are buying now will even still be working by the time you build a new system.
September 4, 2008 10:42:49 AM

geofelt said:
@tim851: I don't think you are correct on this. Here is a typical efficiency curve: http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=3329&p=6 It seems to me that the highest efficiency is in the middle range of output.


You're right, I was a little confused there. But almost all Power Supplies have crappy efficiencies at lower loads.

A midrange gaming PC - say Q9550, HD4870, 2 Gig RAM, 2 HDs, 1 Optical - will probably consume less then 100W idling and about 250-300W playing Crysis. That's at the wall. If we assume 80% efficiency across the board it will pull 80W DC idling and 200-250W DC gaming. Not only does that leave major headroom with a 500W PSU, it also means that a 750W will only be loaded 10% when idling, giving you usually crappy efficiency when using the PC surfing and officing and whatnot.

What rubs me the wrong way is that anytime somebody asks for a power supply advice, there will be the "get something 600W or more" crowd. Which is totally bogus. I've had a Seasonic 330W for 2 years now. First it powered an o'ced 2.8 C2D and a X1950XT that was measured at between 230 and 250W at the wall, now it's running an E8400 and a HD4850. I've swapped out the stock fan for one of these 800rpm Scythe thingies that hardly move any air. Still, it's running smoothly and doesn't even get excessively hot.

A buddy of mine has a Shuttle fetish. He's had about 10 of them, ever since they first came out. 3 or 4 failed on him. It was NEVER the power supplies, those measly little "underpowered" bastards, that gave up, it was always the mobo (they appearantly can't cope with the heat in those tiny enclosures for long).
September 4, 2008 11:53:54 AM

No one is arguing that a much lesser psu will do "for now". If he wants "for now" then he should buy a 450 to 500 watt psu. Also, since most likely an AMD 5000 X2 would do "for now" instead of a Core 2 Quad Q9550. But since he appears to be buying very high end and seems to be a "buyer of parts to last as long as possible" that is where we are suggesting that he buys a higher end psu than actually needed "for now".

Hopefully that clears the smog and helps you to understand where we are coming from...
September 4, 2008 1:27:05 PM

Okay, I get that, but by that logic, you could always adivse "just go to your favourite online shop, sort items by decreasing price and buy whatever is on top". Skulltrail is arguebly more future proof than other solutions.

I just checked, out of curiosity: in 2004, Tom's test system for the GeForce 6800 Ultra consumed 180/275 Watts at idle/load. In 2008, their test system for the GeForce GTX 280 consumed 126/310 Watts. Sure, that's basically all CPU evolution, that keeps the power increase in check, but I don't see GPUs go up much higher either, since they seem to be hitting their thermal limits.
September 4, 2008 7:46:02 PM

Thanks You All for the advices but I think I'm going to buy the Corsair TX CMPSU-650TX since i found a really good deal for $80 and cost less than the 500w antec earthwatts.
September 4, 2008 7:46:35 PM

Thanks You All for the advices but I think I'm going to buy the Corsair TX CMPSU-650TX since i found a really good deal for $80 and cost less than the 500w antec earthwatts.


September 5, 2008 3:20:55 AM

It will serve you well. Good choice. The decision is all yours as only you know what you plan to do with the pc anyway.

I can agree to disagree, points were well made by everyone and the OP made his decision based on our input. I would say good job to everyone. ;) 
!