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Acronis

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  • Hard Drives
  • Partition
  • Storage
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November 20, 2009 12:52:39 PM

I try to build a 2nd partition on a 80gb ntfs disk with 50 gb free space. I boot from a standalone Acronis cd but it doesnt let me have more than 30MB partition and it sais that fre space is 0. I tried to defrag but it didnt help. how to make a new p artition?

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a c 367 G Storage
November 20, 2009 6:12:28 PM

You may be confusing "Free Space" with "Unallocated Space".

"Free Space" is usually the term used within My computer or Explorer to tell you how much of an existing "Disk" with a letter name like C: is actually free for use now. "Unallocated Space" is a term used in describing how much of a physical disk unit is not already assigned to a Partition. Confused? I'll try to explain.

Any Hard Disk unit has a certain amount of capacity or space in total physically. But before any of it is used, two steps are used to prepare it so that an OS like Windows can use it. First you establish one or more Partitions on the HDD unit. When you do this a hidden table called the Partition Table is written at the very beginning of the unit. It has a few details about exactly how much of the HDD, starting from the beginning, is set aside to be used as one "Volume". It will be given its own letter name, and within an OS it will appear to be one Disk, even though the truth is that is is only a defined region of one HDD unit. It is possible to make the first Partition on a HDD take up ALL of the HDD's space, or less than that. If it is not all used, the remainder is called "Unallocated Space" and may be used later to create another Partition (or more that that) which will be treated by the OS as if it were a completely separate "Disk" with its own letter name.

After any Partition (one or more) is created by reserving space, each has to be Formatted. This creates on that one Partition only (at its start) a set of hidden files to hold the Directory and the File Allocation system. Most large hard drive volumes today use the NTFS File System. Once that is done, this Volume or Partition can be recognized and used by the OS (Windows) as a "Drive" with a letter name like C: or D: or G:. If you use My Computer to look at your drives, you will see them all separately, and you won't know from that display system whether the D: drive is just the second Partition on one physical HDD unit, or is the only Partition on a completely separate physical second HDD unit. But each Drive can be examined and will tell you, in part, how much Free Space it has to store more data in. This has NOTHING to do with the Unallocated Space on the physical HDD that MIGHT exist for use in making more Partitions.

So, you say you have an "80 GB NTFS Disk with 50 GB of Free Space". Now, if all that information is obtained by looking in My Computer or Explorer, you are actually looking only at ONE Partition with the name C: (I'm guessing), a size of 80 GB, and containing some data and software (probably mostly the Windows OS installed there) and 50 GB of Free Space for further use. You have NO information about the Unallocated Space that might also exist elsewhere on the HDD unit. It is that Unallocated Space (if it exists) that Acronis might be able to use to create a second Partition.

Now, where did your "80 GB" number come from? Is that the size of the HDD unit as specified by its manufacturer? Or, is it the size of the C: Drive showing in My computer? If it is BOTH, then your HDD has ONLY ONE Partition on it that takes up ALL of the HDD space. There is NO Unallocated Space and you could not possibly make a new second Partition with Acronis without some complicated changes.

I don't know for sure whether Acronis would try to do what you ask in the following manner, but some utilities can, so MAYBE this is what you're seeing. If you really want to create a second Partition on a HDD that already has ALL of its physical space allocated to the first Partition that is partly occupied, one way is to make sure you know exactly what disk area now holds data files in that Partition. Then IF there is one continuous block of Free Space at the END that Partition, it would be possible to change the allocation of space to the first Partition to only what it is using now (maybe with a little extra), and convert the end of its space into Unallocated Space on the HDD. THEN you could use that to make your second Partition. So maybe that is what Acronis is offering to do?
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November 21, 2009 1:08:01 PM

Paperdoc said:
You may be confusing "Free Space" with "Unallocated Space".
"Free Space" is usually the term used within My computer or Explorer to tell you how much of an existing "Disk" with a letter name like C: is actually free for use now. "Unallocated Space" is a term used in describing how much of a physical disk unit is not already assigned to a Partition. Confused? I'll try to explain.

Any Hard Disk unit has a certain amount of capacity or space in total physically. But before any of it is used, two steps are used to prepare it so that an OS like Windows can use it. First you establish one or more Partitions on the HDD unit. When you do this a hidden table called the Partition Table is written at the very beginning of the unit. It has a few details about exactly how much of the HDD, starting from the beginning, is set aside to be used as one "Volume". It will be given its own letter name, and within an OS it will appear to be one Disk, even though the truth is that is is only a defined region of one HDD unit. It is possible to make the first Partition on a HDD take up ALL of the HDD's space, or less than that. If it is not all used, the remainder is called "Unallocated Space" and may be used later to create another Partition (or more that that) which will be treated by the OS as if it were a completely separate "Disk" with its own letter name.

After any Partition (one or more) is created by reserving space, each has to be Formatted. This creates on that one Partition only (at its start) a set of hidden files to hold the Directory and the File Allocation system. Most large hard drive volumes today use the NTFS File System. Once that is done, this Volume or Partition can be recognized and used by the OS (Windows) as a "Drive" with a letter name like C: or D: or G:. If you use My Computer to look at your drives, you will see them all separately, and you won't know from that display system whether the D: drive is just the second Partition on one physical HDD unit, or is the only Partition on a completely separate physical second HDD unit. But each Drive can be examined and will tell you, in part, how much Free Space it has to store more data in. This has NOTHING to do with the Unallocated Space on the physical HDD that MIGHT exist for use in making more Partitions.

So, you say you have an "80 GB NTFS Disk with 50 GB of Free Space". Now, if all that information is obtained by looking in My Computer or Explorer, you are actually looking only at ONE Partition with the name C: (I'm guessing), a size of 80 GB, and containing some data and software (probably mostly the Windows OS installed there) and 50 GB of Free Space for further use. You have NO information about the Unallocated Space that might also exist elsewhere on the HDD unit. It is that Unallocated Space (if it exists) that Acronis might be able to use to create a second Partition.

Now, where did your "80 GB" number come from? Is that the size of the HDD unit as specified by its manufacturer? Or, is it the size of the C: Drive showing in My computer? If it is BOTH, then your HDD has ONLY ONE Partition on it that takes up ALL of the HDD space. There is NO Unallocated Space and you could not possibly make a new second Partition with Acronis without some complicated changes.

I don't know for sure whether Acronis would try to do what you ask in the following manner, but some utilities can, so MAYBE this is what you're seeing. If you really want to create a second Partition on a HDD that already has ALL of its physical space allocated to the first Partition that is partly occupied, one way is to make sure you know exactly what disk area now holds data files in that Partition. Then IF there is one continuous block of Free Space at the END that Partition, it would be possible to change the allocation of space to the first Partition to only what it is using now (maybe with a little extra), and convert the end of its space into Unallocated Space on the HDD. THEN you could use that to make your second Partition. So maybe that is what Acronis is offering to do?





Hi
aCronis offers to make a new prtition from the free space (or so I understand)
I couldntn resize c:, it let me free only 32 mb. even after defrag
Thnx
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a c 367 G Storage
November 23, 2009 3:02:05 AM

I think what you're saying is that you have an 80 GB HDD which is completely devoted to one Partition that has an OS installed and says it has 50 GB of
"Free Space" in My Computer. I expect also that it is seen by Windows as about 75 GB, not 80, but that does not really matter. When you ran Defrag and then ran Arcronis to "free up" space for a new Partition, it would NOT make the full 50 GB available. That is normal. Defrag will reorganize your disk and leave as much empty space as possible all in one block near the end. In that state when you run Acronis it can convert some of that Free Space back into Unallocated Space by Shrinking the C: drive Partition. But is never shrinks it so much that it gets rid of ALL the Free Space on the C: drive, just so there is some empty space for the existing OS to operate in. Apparently Acronis will take your 75 GB drive with 50 GB of Free Space (thus, 25 GB occupied) and shrink it to a 45 GB drive (leaves 20 GB of Free Space for Windows to use on the C: drive), and will convert 30 GB (via an intermediate Unallocated Space step) into a second Partition probably called D: or E:. But I really think you will not get it to shrink the C: drive smaller than that.

If you want more than 30 GB to install something on a new Partition, you might be better to buy a second hard drive when you can and leave the C: drive on the 80 GB unit alone.
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November 23, 2009 12:21:47 PM

Paperdoc said:
I think what you're saying is that you have an 80 GB HDD which is completely devoted to one Partition that has an OS installed and says it has 50 GB of
"Free Space" in My Computer. I expect also that it is seen by Windows as about 75 GB, not 80, but that does not really matter. When you ran Defrag and then ran Arcronis to "free up" space for a new Partition, it would NOT make the full 50 GB available. That is normal. Defrag will reorganize your disk and leave as much empty space as possible all in one block near the end. In that state when you run Acronis it can convert some of that Free Space back into Unallocated Space by Shrinking the C: drive Partition. But is never shrinks it so much that it gets rid of ALL the Free Space on the C: drive, just so there is some empty space for the existing OS to operate in. Apparently Acronis will take your 75 GB drive with 50 GB of Free Space (thus, 25 GB occupied) and shrink it to a 45 GB drive (leaves 20 GB of Free Space for Windows to use on the C: drive), and will convert 30 GB (via an intermediate Unallocated Space step) into a second Partition probably called D: or E:. But I really think you will not get it to shrink the C: drive smaller than that.

If you want more than 30 GB to install something on a new Partition, you might be better to buy a second hard drive when you can and leave the C: drive on the 80 GB unit alone.



Sorry, but what I wrote is that it frees only 30MB not GB
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a c 367 G Storage
November 23, 2009 4:50:17 PM

Woah! sorry for not reading right!
So it looks like Acronis is not trying to do the Shrinking of your existing C: Partition by itself - it appears only to consider the tiny bit of existing Unallocated Space on your HDD unit.

What Windows are you using? I'm pretty sure that Win XP will not try to change the bootable C: Partition. But I understand that Vista and Win 7 do have this ability. I believe you have to Defrag your C: drive (make sure you empty the Recycle bin and use Disk Cleanup first) and then immediately after go into Disk Management and RIGHT-click on the Partition used for C: (in the LOWER RIGHT pane of Disk Management) and choose to Shrink it. You may find it won't let you shrink it right down to 25 GB and free up all 50 that you think are available, but you should be able to Shrink C:. This will put a bunch of space into an area called Unallocated Space. Exit out of Disk Management and reboot so you have a clean system, then try using Acronis to make a new Partition out of that Unallocated Space you just made.
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November 25, 2009 1:54:56 PM

Hi
Iwas running Acronis from the standalone CD, I dont think THe OS is responssible
At the end, I got fed up and did it easily whith Easeus
Thnx for your good will
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!