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Water cooling heat issues, tip on water circut.

Last response: in Overclocking
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August 5, 2009 11:47:49 PM

I currently have my water circuit going: res to pump to cpu to vid to vid to rad back to res.
the issue is the cpu heats the water too much to get a descent temp on the vids. it is ok at start but after about an hour the temps rise.

Idle temps cpu: 56c vids 57c & 58c / chipset @ 55c under air
Under load of CoDWaW cpu 62c and vids at 70c and 71c
where I want to be under load: cpu in the 30c's and vids in the 40c's

current setup: large res from dangerden 2 space
dd 12v D5 pump
maze 4 cpu
DD blocks stock with the vid cards
DD Black Ice Pro II radiator dual 120 fans @ 88 cfm


Parts I just got in
DD MC-TDX cpu block
another Black Ice Pro II rad with dual 120 mm 88 cfm fans

I am trying to figgure out the new water circut layout.

Should I go with:

res-pump-cpu-rad-vid-vid-rad-res
or: res-pump-rad-rad-cpu-vid-vid-res
or any other config you would suggest I set up.

I solved the chipset temp with an antec spot cool fan now at 31c
this is all going into a new case that has seperate thermal zones, one zone is MB and cards, the other is PSU, pump, res, and drives. the rads are mounted outside and drawing no case air to cool.

the challenge is to get my temps in the low 30c's with an ambient room temp of around 70f to 80f in the summer. in the winter the pc radiator is the only heat in the room.

any suggestions using the gear I already got would be greatly appreciated
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
August 6, 2009 2:19:49 AM

What GPU/CPU are you cooling?

You probably will get better performance from res>pump>CPU>rad>GPU>rad
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August 6, 2009 3:12:31 AM

I'm cooling an amd phenom 9850 @ 2.5 - 3.0 Ghz depending on the app
and 2 x bfg 8800 gtx, one is stock at 610/ 950, the other is clocked to match. I don't overclock much, when I do it is minimal and for short periods.

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Related resources
a b à CPUs
a c 86 K Overclocking
August 6, 2009 3:27:26 AM

Hmm, we really need mo' info, once we get it, we'll figure it out.
CPU, speed, VID
GPU what? and any overclock?
Case?
Fans, 88 CFM is pretty good but which ones. Your rads NEED high CFM.
Ambient temps.

Playing a game really gives us no standard to base temps on.
Could you run OCCT Linpac and Furmark at the same time for 30 min then tell us your temps on each core, GPU temps and current ambient temps.

Then I'll know what to do.

Your temps you plan to achieve might be impossible, depending on your needs.

Anyway, with a great watercooling rig like that, I'm really surprised you asked here. There are MANY more forums that have worls class experianced folks availible.

Here is a good basic link post I cut n paste from a word file more than a few times a week on many forums. Hope it helps.

I need info, fill in the blanks please.

Guides
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=... Pretty up to date info and buying guide
 verclocking-and-cooling&Itemid=86" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://gilgameshreviews.com/index.php?option=com_conten... Another good guide
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=... What to do once all the stuff is in the door
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=22... Many build logs on MANY cases, great learning tool.

My latest rig:
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=604016

Forums
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/index.php? Not a noob site, but great stickies
http://www.ocforums.com/ My fav, good peeps, know their stuff, less hardcore
http://www.over-clock.com/ivb/inde [...] opic=20277 A GREAT Europe site
http://www.overclock.net/water-cooling/ Decent site

Tests on equipment, not reviews, truly scientific tests
http://translate.google.com/transl [...] n&ie=UTF-8 Info on rad testing
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=22... More rad testing
http://skinneelabs.com/ Host for Martins lab and some newer tests
http://www.skinneelabs.com/MartinsLiquidLab/ Test results, very technical


Stores
http://www.dangerden.com
http://www.petrastechshop.com/
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/
http://www.jab-tech.com/
http://www.performance-pcs.com
http://www.frozencpu.com/


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August 6, 2009 9:36:09 PM

system spec


asus m2n32sli deluxe wifi edition
amd phenom 9850 x4 @ 2.5 Ghz (stock speeds)
2x bfg 8800 gtx in sli @ 615 Mhz core 950 Mhz mem Shader clock 1404 (stock)
4 GB hyper Z mem @ 800 Mhz (stock)
Creative X-Fi Fatal1ty champion series audio (disabled due to sli conflicts) currently using on board
startech 1000 watt psu
WD 1TB drive
WD 320 GB drive
WD 120 GB drive

current water setup

Danger den dual bay res
Danger den 12v D5 fixed speed pump
Danger den maze 4 cpu cooler
danger den 8800 gtx blocks on GPUs
Black ice pro II rad with 2x yates loon 120mm fans @ 88 cfm ea. 176 cfm total

New parts to work with:

Danger Den MC-TDX cpu cooler
2nd black ice pro II rad with 2 yates loon 120mm fans @ 88 cfm ea. 176 cfm total


Idle temps cpu: 56c vids 57c & 58c water cooled / chipset @ 55c under air

ran folding at home with CUDA enabled while running futuremark vantage at max settings no overclocking (futuremark would crash at the second physX test. kept reloading the test set. ran at these loads for half hour.

Load temps: cpu @ 63c / gpu 1 @ 71c/ gpu 2 @ 73c / chipset @ 70c Room temp 81f

this last winter the room temps would be around 40f to 50f and the exhaust from the rad would heat the room to 67f after 4 hours under load.

the current setup works great in the winter, but in the summer is when I am having trouble. those load temps are causing lockups and crashes with out over clocking. I would like to over clock all year round.

Ideal load temps I am trying to reach is 50c or less on everything in a room that averages 80f



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a b à CPUs
a c 86 K Overclocking
August 7, 2009 3:21:22 AM

Yea, sounds like your on track. The new CPU cooler will help a lot. The new rad in the loop will be an awesome addition. Looks pretty normal for what you have and you'll see a great improvement with the new stuff. Your GPU's won't go down to 50's but for sure in the 60's, way plenty cool for GPUs.

I hear ya about summer temps. I don't want to overclock my current rig at all due to the room getting hot.
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August 7, 2009 7:15:57 AM

summer heat is the wost living in a farm belt basin. this system has dual purpose, it cools the PC all year round but in the winter it is also used to heat my freezing basement. does an ok job of heating with the one rad, hoping for more winter room heat with the second.

also interested in a couple of other ideas I have. One is in the summer to develop a way to build a submersed radiator design. I have a mini fridge that I was thinking of placing a large coil of tubing with a pump in to circulate coolant in and out of an external tank that contained the radiators. Intention behind this is silent thermal transfer without the use of noisy fans. the fridge is much quieter than the 4 high flow fans. then in the winter I can revert to the fans on the rads at a quieter speed to heat the basement.

only issue with this is would that lower the pc coolant temp enough to cause sweating within the machine? I do not wish to cover internal components and coolant tubing with insulation crap.

other option i was considering, I have 6 individual 500 watt peltier plates from Colman powered coolers i was thinking of attaching to the radiators instead of fans. once again the thought of internal sweating. with this method the hot side of the plates could be cooled by a huge passive heat sink, cooling in silence. I have access to a machine shop and large billets of aluminum and copper
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August 7, 2009 1:55:16 PM

dialing up the speed of the fans on your rad will help the most since it appears you have the circuit going well and the right stuff.
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a b à CPUs
a c 86 K Overclocking
August 7, 2009 2:41:29 PM

A second rad won't increase room temps. Your PC still makes the same exact amount of heat. A second rads just pulls it from the hot stuff more efficiently, with one rad it just dissipates from other places like the bottom of the Mobo, sides of the CPU block etc.

A mini fridge is very very weak. Been tried been fails. It won't cool worth squat and if the compressor has to run all the time it will burn up. A fridge actally makes more heat than it cools, so your room would be even warmer.

And yea, thats why sub-ambient cooling is the next leap due to the danger of condensation. More setup and chance of letting the smoke out.

Watercooling is fine, your temps are fine once the rad and new CPU block is on. Your stuff though, have fun.

Wanna learn about Chilled water and TEC cooling?
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/index.php? Not a noob site, but great stickies
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a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
August 7, 2009 8:57:41 PM

maybe i should suggest phase change?
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a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
August 7, 2009 10:07:06 PM

^lol. Btw, how is that going?
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a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
August 7, 2009 10:25:03 PM

Ughhhhh one nightmare after another.

I finally got around to ordering the valves i was missing and turns out they were out of stock.

But they finall shipped and hopefully they will be fhere soon so i can resume working one it.
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a b à CPUs
a c 86 K Overclocking
August 8, 2009 4:00:05 AM

So overshocked, you had to poop on this thread. Prolly dead anyway.

best of luck Over

And hearing from the op, give him time, lots to learn.
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a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
August 8, 2009 4:03:16 AM

Conumdrum said:


best of luck Over




Yeah... i really need it. LOL! [:lectrocrew:6]
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August 21, 2009 1:59:10 AM

well, i got it all put back together on a res-pump-cpu-rad-gpu-rad-res loop. the temps on my cpu are higher using the mctdx block then the maze 4. also there is a weird temp spike that happens for no apparent reason. it will go from 50c to 80c in about 10 seconds. as if the water stopped flowing when it doesn't. any idea of what could cause the increase in temp on a better system. also what works better on the air in the case, negative pressure or flow through?
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a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
August 21, 2009 10:57:21 PM

^Is the system completely bled? How about the mounting? Any chance you can post a pic of the system?
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August 21, 2009 11:15:07 PM

the system is completed bled, the blocks have good solid contact. the ambient air temp in the case is still a problem because I am short a couple of fans to circulate the case air. and the cpu temps finally leveled out at 35c to 40c idle and 49 under full load and doesn't go higher.

the pump is the prob as far as I can tell, the rpms of my d5 pump are in the hundreds instead of the 4000 range where it should be, the connector was faulty and causing it to stop from time to time, fixed that but the rpms are still low. don't know if it is too much water for it to push or if it is failing. still waiting to hear from danger den on it.

I was worried about the total mass of water load on the pump with the pump in the bottom of the case and the rads side mounted with the ins and outs at the top of their mount and the res even higher than the rads. this is the only case I got to work with and not much one can do with component location.

I will get some pics soon and post them
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a b à CPUs
a c 86 K Overclocking
August 22, 2009 4:21:29 PM

EDIT: NM freaky, you have had the loop before so you know how to setup a loop. so pay no attention to the stuff below here. You could have something in the pump, it should be opened up. I dunno, a squaling noise thats not bubbles could be the impeller is whacked.
...................................................................
Ahh are you the one with the funny sounding pump? I think you need to open the pump up. Did you run the pump dry or did it ALWAYS have water in it? These pumps will burn up the ceramic bearing in like 30 seconds if there is no water.

Take the pump out and open it up and inspect it.

Your loop is fine, the pump can handle it perfectly. You prolly have less than 8' of hose.
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a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
August 22, 2009 4:38:50 PM

^+1. If you don't run it water it WILL burn up. D5 has more than enough flow for this loop. Also is it the vario D5 or fixed speed one?
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August 23, 2009 2:22:31 AM





well I got it completed. it has 2 80mm fans and one 60mm fan sucking air out. it has one of those asus blowers on the last heatsink by the i/o panel. and an antec spot cool fan floating over the other heatsink.

the ambient temp of the case with the panels all closed up is around 40c
the nforce temp is still reading 75c I do not know how accurate this is using nvidia system monitor. speedfan is no use on this board. core temp works and reports the same as nvidia system monitor.

the pump had a faulty molex that I replaced. it runs steady now without the random stopping. but the rpm line to it reports 200 to 800 rpm. using an areocool fp-01 for rpm reads. The water is flowing but does not seem to have as much pressure as it used to, judging by the visible pressure wave in the res. it used to splash all the way to the top of the front face, now it is a low ripple.

waiting till monday to hear from dangerden on the pump issue.

the other issue is the nforce temp being at 75c. is that normal or too high. I can't find a straight answer on this. the north and southbridge heatsinks get warm but not hot, can hold my finger on the base of them for long period.
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a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
August 23, 2009 3:01:52 AM

75C is quite high. So is your Ambient. 40C?!?!? even my CrossFired 4870 + Antec 900 only gets 30-32C ambient case temp under load.
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August 23, 2009 8:19:21 AM

I am using a negative pressure setup on my case. 3 fans drawing air out.

what would you suggest. push and pull or just push. the case has plenty of open vent but only room for a 80mm in the top, an 80mm in the bottom and a 60mm by the i/o plate. look at the pics and give me an idea. there is no way I could water the chipset just no more room for tubes.


I have had this machine turned on long enough to make this post and my ambient temp is 38c and the nforce temp is at 71c already.

current temps: nforce 71c / cpu tj 40c / gpu1 49c / gpu2 51 / hdd 34c. Idle no overclock, running for 17 min now.
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a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
August 23, 2009 8:01:28 PM

Quote:
there is no way I could water the chipset just no more room for tubes.

Absolutely. No point in WCing NB unless going to OC to the max.

I usually put only the back 120mm fan as exhaust. Every thing else are usually intake.

Me think that the nFore temps are wrong.
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August 23, 2009 10:16:01 PM

I am thinking the nforce temps are reporting wrong. it reports the northbridge at 70c-75c and the southbridge at 365c. if I stick a thermal sensor into the northbridge heatsink it reports 35-41c take into concideration that the sensor is in the sink instead of the base, makes for a read that is around 7 or 8 degrees lower than actual. so that would mean that the actual temp of the chipset is around 50c

If these chips were over heating as much as the reports say wouldnt they fail? the system runs stable. I have had this mobo for about a year without any probs. I never really monitored temps on it till this rebuild. always monitored cpu and gpu temps but not mobo and chipset. I am going to move my sensor for ambient case temp and see what it says.

is there any good way to retrieve temp readings of chipset accuratly? speedfan is the only prog that seems to find all the sensors onboard but reports ridiculous temps. like it says my cpu is -65c and northbridge is 107c southbridge at 236c etc so that program cant be trusted on this board. I get weird reads with just about any prog that I have tried. nvidia system monitor reads accurately for cpu/gpu temps but fails on everything else. asus probe II is reporting wierd too.
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