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4870 vs, 9800GX2

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August 7, 2008 4:31:31 AM

Hey guys, my question today is relatively simple: if you could get the Radeon 4870 and Geforce 9800GX2 for the exact same price, which one would you pick?

My motherboard is a P35, so both crossfire and SLI are out of the picture. In case you want to know, the games I currently play include: The Witcher, World in Conflict, Company of Heroes, Stalker, and Sins of a solar empire.

My Rig (besides GFX)
E4300 @ 2.8 Ghz
ASUS P5K delux
4Gb RAM

More about : 4870 9800gx2

a b U Graphics card
August 7, 2008 4:40:29 AM

Performance wise 9800gx2 makes more sense. The 4870 is a very good cost effective card but for just power i would go with the 9800gx2, which is comparable to the gtx 280. But remember the 4870 isnt far off.
August 7, 2008 4:42:02 AM

9800GX2 if the prices are the same
Related resources
August 7, 2008 4:49:30 AM

9800gx2 with your processor overclocked over 3ghz if you can
August 7, 2008 5:18:43 AM

Personally I'd go with the 4870 even if the prices were equal. The raw performance of the 9800GX2 will be a little higher in most cases, but it will be a dual GPU solution which means you may run into microstuttering problems in some games. That may or may not be a big issue depending on what games you play and what Nvidia does with their future drivers. Their future "Big Bang II" driver may improve this problem.

As stated before, the performance of the two cards is pretty close, but the thing that would push me towards the 4870 instead of the 9800GX2 would be the inclusion of AVIVO with ATI cards. Having the GPU video transcoder is extremely handy if you do any video work at all. I record a lot of TV with my tuner card and AVIVO speeds up the process of converting the MPEG2/WMV9 output to DIVX/H.264 much quicker (about 5-6 times faster than the CPU even with my old X1950 Pro). That added functionality is enough to make me prefer ATI, but your priorities may be different from mine.

Before anyone mentions it, yes I am aware that Nvidia will be adding this capability with Elemental's "Badaboom" GPU encoder at some point, but this is still not available and if you look at the vendor's website you will see that it won't be free like AVIVO currently is. You will need to buy the encoder from them when it becomes available.
August 7, 2008 5:23:10 AM

For future purposes it does not support direct x 10.1 and NVIDIA stated thier next gen cards will support it and some article state games will use this and increase performance by quite a bit.
August 7, 2008 5:24:18 AM

Gx2 is stronger if priced the same:

COD4


Gx2 15% faster w/ AA, 1920x1200
Gx2 23% faster w/o AA, 1920x1200

Crysis


Gx2 2% faster w/ AA, 1920x1200
Gx2 22% faster w/o AA, 1920x1200

Unreal III


Gx2 30% faster w/ AA, 1920x1200
Gx2 20% faster w/o AA, 1920x1200
August 7, 2008 5:42:51 AM

Thanks for all the quick replies guys. I forgot to mention that i game at 1680*1050 and will for the foreseeable future, but thatks for the charts anyway l1qu1d.

I am seriously leaning towards the GX2 since it clearly bests the 4870. I am curious about this "mircostuttering problem" though. I've heard of it a few times but don't really know anything about it. Can anyone enlighten me please?
August 7, 2008 6:10:48 AM

Microstuttering is a combination problem between the two gpu cores as they combine the images and therefore as you play you will notice stuttering in certain games. happens with dual card setups as well but little rarer.

Personally. The 4870s just came out and the benchmarks are based off of beta hot fix drivers. with future driver releases its probably going to be a more efficient choice. Not to mention you avoid the stuttering problem. and have room for future upgrades if you wanna do a duel card setup. Considering this single gpu card can just barely keep up with the dual 9800 card its kind of impressive.


(toms test system for the above benchmarks)
Test Configuration:

* Asus P5E3 Deluxe (Intel X38)
* Intel Core 2 Quad QX6850 (3 GHz)
* Crucial 2 x 1 GB DDR3 1333 MHz 7-7-7-20
* Western Digital WD5000AAKS
* Asus 12x DVD drive
* Cooler Master Real Power Pro 850W

o Windows XP, Vista, Vista SP1
o ForceWare 177.39 beta (9800 GTX +)
o ForceWare 177.34 beta (GTX 260 and 280)
o ForceWare 175.16 WHQL (9800 GTX, 9800 GX2, 8800 Ultra)
o Catalyst 8.7 beta (HD 4850, HD 4870)
o Catalyst 8.6 WHQL (HD 3870)
o Catalyst 8.5 WHQL (HD 3870 X2)


It comes down to this. at 1680x1050 either of those cards are going to play any game your interested in at probably maximum settings. Considering this i would go by features. the 10.1 dx version and the avivo tech on the ati card is nice and teh stuttering problem on the nvidia card makes me look to the ati card.

that and the 9800 gx2 is on average over 100-150 dollars more expensive

Id grab up the 4870 and then later on if you want you can dual em up and extend their life immensely for a lot less.

i actually grabbed up two of the 4850s and i can play crisis completely maxed out at 1920x1200 very comfortably.


August 7, 2008 2:01:52 PM

here are charts from guru3d that are updated, and the gX2 still comes out on top. I rarely get micro-stuttering, but when it happens I barely notice it. Either way its always best not to have it at all.

here are charts:



August 7, 2008 5:02:00 PM

I'm not really worried about DX10.1 because I still game on windows XP, but i would like to ask some more about the mirco-stuttering problem on the GX2.

L1qu1d (and anyone else who owns a GX2), when does this problem usually occur, how long does it last, and when it does occur, is it really that bad?
August 7, 2008 5:16:31 PM

I'd go with the 4870. Lower power requirements and it's physically a smaller card, plus you don't have to worry about a game not having good scaling in SLI. Either way, you're going to get a great video card.
August 7, 2008 5:21:46 PM

Did some immature idiot just go and mark down the posts highlighting microstuttering?! That's really moronic...[/off topic]
August 7, 2008 5:27:22 PM

russki said:
Did some immature idiot just go and mark down the posts highlighting microstuttering?! That's really moronic...[/off topic]


Yup. There are a few idiots around here.
August 7, 2008 5:31:04 PM

ya i voted both of them back up to zero and now one is voted down again to -1. when someone disagrees it doesn't mean they deserve a vote down. i know price is not supposed to be considered but it is a factor so voting someone down for recommending the other option is kind of weak.
August 7, 2008 5:35:48 PM

Yeah, I noticed that to and voted them up.
August 7, 2008 5:38:26 PM

4870.
a c 88 U Graphics card
August 7, 2008 6:11:18 PM

Def go the 9800GX2, its a great card
August 7, 2008 6:22:35 PM

I'm in a similar position in that I'll be getting a new graphics card in the next two weeks. I was planning on going with an HD 4870, but honestly with the recent price drops, the GTX 260 and 9800 GX2 are also both good, comprable options.

For example, for 269.99 + shipping, you can get a factory overclocked GTX 260 that'll beat the stock HD 4870 in practically anything (and there are precious few non-reference 4870's around at the moment): http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=E...

Review and comparison tables: http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews.php?/gpu_displays/as...

Personally, I'm leaning towards this at the moment: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... Factory overclocked 9800 GX2 for 299.99 + free 3-day shipping - that's pretty hard to beat at the moment in terms of bang for buck for the middle-high end.
August 7, 2008 6:38:05 PM

I see micro stuttering mostly in CSS, it lasts barely a second. It doesn't ruin game play and doesn't annoy me at all, but then again I'm not that picky.

Everything aside, the 4870 is an amazing card for the price, but if the GX2 matches its price, and you have a sli configuration or single PCI-e, or just want tto stick with a single slot, the GX2 is a no brainer
a c 88 U Graphics card
August 7, 2008 6:52:23 PM

The micro stuttering is no biggie for me either, I agree with Liquid, for the same price id def go the GX2
August 7, 2008 8:47:26 PM

but are they really the same price?
August 7, 2008 9:12:27 PM

Il-Mari said:
I'm in a similar position in that I'll be getting a new graphics card in the next two weeks. I was planning on going with an HD 4870, but honestly with the recent price drops, the GTX 260 and 9800 GX2 are also both good, comprable options.

For example, for 269.99 + shipping, you can get a factory overclocked GTX 260 that'll beat the stock HD 4870 in practically anything (and there are precious few non-reference 4870's around at the moment): http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=E...

Review and comparison tables: http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews.php?/gpu_displays/as...

Personally, I'm leaning towards this at the moment: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... Factory overclocked 9800 GX2 for 299.99 + free 3-day shipping - that's pretty hard to beat at the moment in terms of bang for buck for the middle-high end.


Umm, no....

Look at the benchmarks in the above graphs. A 4870 is faster than a 260 in those graphs, and is faster in most everything, Crysis possibly being the exception

Next, the review link you posted, they are comparing vs a 4850, not a 4870.

Try not to post misleading information.

That being said. 4870 > 9800GX2. The 9800GX2 might get slightly better framerates, but you will see a longer life with the 4870. Nvidia can barely support the current products they have. What makes you think they will keep releasing new drivers for the GX2? Next would be that the 4870 uses less power. Thirdly, when Direct X 11 does finally come, will the 10.1 support it, or will any card that supports 10 being 11 ready? From what Ive read, its a software change on 10.1, not 10 as a whole. So old Nvidia hardware will be left behind once again.
August 7, 2008 9:58:35 PM

Kaldor said:
Umm, no....

Look at the benchmarks in the above graphs. A 4870 is faster than a 260 in those graphs, and is faster in most everything, Crysis possibly being the exception

Next, the review link you posted, they are comparing vs a 4850, not a 4870.

Try not to post misleading information.

That being said. 4870 > 9800GX2. The 9800GX2 might get slightly better framerates, but you will see a longer life with the 4870. Nvidia can barely support the current products they have. What makes you think they will keep releasing new drivers for the GX2? Next would be that the 4870 uses less power. Thirdly, when Direct X 11 does finally come, will the 10.1 support it, or will any card that supports 10 being 11 ready? From what Ive read, its a software change on 10.1, not 10 as a whole. So old Nvidia hardware will be left behind once again.


Whoops, I meant to post this: http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/evga_gtx260/ where a similarly factory overclocked card beats the 4870 a majority of the time.

And how about you try not posting misleading information? The GX2 does not get 'slightly better framerates' - it regularly gets 10-30% better ones, which is quite significant. Secondly, do you seriously believe NVDIA is going to stop releasing drivers for a cards that's less than 6 months old anytime soon? Thirdly, it uses about 10-15% more power, which is consistent with the increase in performace - note that the 4800 series is notable for having terrible power consumption efficiency, as noted in the Tom's review:

Quote:
Unfortunately, the Radeon HD 4870 posted even higher consumption than the 4850 at idle – 22 W more overall, measured at the power supply. When just displaying the desktop ("at idle"), the cardhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Card drops the GPU speed to 550. As soon as it displays 3D data, it increases the GPUhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphics_processing_unit speed to the nominal/maximum speed of 750. Compared to the Radeon HD 3870, the difference is 44 W, or a 40% increase in total consumption for the PC! So the poor power-management performance of the Radeon HD 4800 series has been confirmed. Another problem is that unlike the HD 4850, the Radeon HD 4870’s power consumptionhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_consumption isn’t very economical while gaming.


http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-4870,1964...

Fourthly, to make full use of Direct X 11, the GPU must be designed with it in mind, already launched cards will only be able to offer partial compatibility.

http://blogs.msdn.com/ptaylor/archive/2008/07/28/gamefe...

Yeah, so how about you stop saying other people 'post misleading information' when you're entire post is basically falsehoods, distortions and fanboyish speculation about wishing doom and gloom on the other maker's cards?
August 7, 2008 11:36:56 PM

L1qu1d said:
here are charts from guru3d that are updated, and the gX2 still comes out on top. I rarely get micro-stuttering, but when it happens I barely notice it. Either way its always best not to have it at all.

here are charts:

http://www.guru3d.com/vga/vga-cod4.png

http://www.guru3d.com/vga/vga-stalker-dynamic.png


Why do people insist on comparing a single core card to dual core cards ?? its beyond me like that chart states 9800gx quad sli beats gtx280 3-way sli Hmmm let me think ITS OBVIOUS THAT 4 CARDS ARE GONNA BEAT 3 try putting any single core card v the gtx280 and see what happens ???? or shall i tell you .... Yup u guessed it the GTX comes out on top also guru for benching is not 100% perfect try benching in a real world enviroment also try encoding decoding movies using a 3-way sli 280 and a quad 9800 i agree that best bang for buck would be a 9800x2 until the 4870x2 arrives but what will you guys say if nvidia decided to do the unthinkable and do a GTX280 x 2 at roughly the same price as the 4870 x2 which would be the better buy then ? also if you do some real research you will also see that the nvidia shaders are actually better than ati shaders meaning the gfx look more crisp instead of blurry edges ati is amd always making budget cards to compete with the non budget builder amd v intel ati v nvidia so when you think of it poor ati aka amd has 2 wars going on i used to love the amd cpu's but now switching to intel because they seem to be losing the battle same goes with ati and nvidia ... nvidia will just release a card to smash the 4870 x2 its just a viscious circle ... nvidia release a world beater then ati builds one to compete but while ati are taking the time to build it nvidia put the card out at top whack price knowing that the jones ppl are gonna buy it then ati release the card and nvidia just drop the price for a short while until the next gen card arrives putting ati back down again its just the same with the cpu's what ever card you think is the best within 6 month max is not the best any more all i say is what ever card you like the look of buy it if you can afford it if not then go for something cheaper .
a b U Graphics card
August 8, 2008 1:14:50 AM

kellytm3 said:
http://forums.slizone.com/index.php?showtopic=26151
Direct X 10.1 can be burried now...Direct X 11 will be here by the end of the year,and will work with all DX 10 cards


:heink: 

Just like DX10.1 can work on any DX8.1 card?

The release of DX11 doesn't negate DX10.1, if anything it brings forth the DX10.1 features as well. This is not the split between DX10 & DX9 where there is only an either or.
However just like DX10-only card can't use DX10.1 features, neither can they or DX10.1 cards use DX-11 specific features.

August 8, 2008 2:17:58 AM

Il-Mari said:
Whoops, I meant to post this: http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/evga_gtx260/ where a similarly factory overclocked card beats the 4870 a majority of the time.

And how about you try not posting misleading information? The GX2 does not get 'slightly better framerates' - it regularly gets 10-30% better ones, which is quite significant. Secondly, do you seriously believe NVDIA is going to stop releasing drivers for a cards that's less than 6 months old anytime soon? Thirdly, it uses about 10-15% more power, which is consistent with the increase in performace - note that the 4800 series is notable for having terrible power consumption efficiency, as noted in the Tom's review:

Quote:
Unfortunately, the Radeon HD 4870 posted even higher consumption than the 4850 at idle %u2013 22 W more overall, measured at the power supply. When just displaying the desktop ("at idle"), the cardhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Card drops the GPU speed to 550. As soon as it displays 3D data, it increases the GPUhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphics_processing_unit speed to the nominal/maximum speed of 750. Compared to the Radeon HD 3870, the difference is 44 W, or a 40% increase in total consumption for the PC! So the poor power-management performance of the Radeon HD 4800 series has been confirmed. Another problem is that unlike the HD 4850, the Radeon HD 4870%u2019s power consumptionhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_consumption isn%u2019t very economical while gaming.


http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-4870,1964...

Fourthly, to make full use of Direct X 11, the GPU must be designed with it in mind, already launched cards will only be able to offer partial compatibility.

http://blogs.msdn.com/ptaylor/archive/2008/07/28/gamefe...

Yeah, so how about you stop saying other people 'post misleading information' when you're entire post is basically falsehoods, distortions and fanboyish speculation about wishing doom and gloom on the other maker's cards?


The 9800GX2 is a decent hard. Its cooling solution kind of blows. But it is a solid piece of hardware. For what it is, it should be, as it basically a pair of 8800GTs or 512 GTS's bolted together. Youll have to excuse me on that last part, Im too lazy to go look it up. It does put out nice framerates though. But its old tech in all reality. And Nvidia will probably stop putting out drivers for it within the next 6-9 months. Look how long they took to update the drivers for the 8800's.

That review on the 260 is simply OK. The games are tested with no little to no AA turned on. Very dumbed down settings. Take a look at [H]ardOCP's benchmarking to get a truer answer of how the cards actually perform head to head. More details, higher resolution, far better real world testing. Also take a look at Guru3d's graphs, the 4870 is beating a stock 260. And I trust their benchmarking over just about anyones. Another thing, lets compare stock vs stock cards. EVGAs card is overclocked without a doubt, surpassing even the mighty 280 in some areas. When we see some over clocked 4870s we will have a better comparison. But, even still, the review is pretty decent in Nvidias favor due to the higher clocks on the 260, but go look at the stock numbers from [H]ardOCP and Guru3d.

I was mistaken on the power usage however. Doh! Reading FTW! Im sure that AMD will hopefully get the power management worked out. There really isnt a reason that small of a core should be eating that much power at idle.

I will disagree with you on Direct X 11. Nvidia still hasnt released a 10.1 part yet, and because of that, and the market lead they held for so long, no developers were really accepting 10.1 with open arms. "TWIMTBP" indeed. Or simply a case of "Hey, we will give you fat cash to make your game run good on our hardware?" I am about 90% sure that DirectX 11 will be a build on 10.1. That means that the DirectX 10 Nvidia cards will not be running it fully. ATI 10.1 cards wont be running it fully either, as you will need a fully certified part to run 2 things in 11, the major one being SM5. But the large majority of 11 is nothing but a software update to 10.1 not 10. ATI hardware has been able to run 10.1 for quite awhile, yet Nvidia still has thumb in the bung. This will give ATI hardware a leg up with 11 vs. Nvidia. And point of interest, before Assassins Creed was back peddled from 10.1 to 10, ATI was posting better benchmarks than Nvidia. This also leads alot of people to believe that Nvidias hardware will take a hit when its benchmarked on 10.1. This is what pushes me to buy ATI right now, the fact that will very likely be MUCH more future proof.

As far my information being "falsehoods, distortions and fanboyish speculation about wishing doom and gloom on the other maker's cards" why dont you actually look at what hardware Im running? I run a 680i and an 8800GTX, lol. Im hardly a fanboi. When I bought these parts, Nvidia was the king. I simply buy the best. At that time, almost 2 years ago, Nvidia was on the top of their game. Not so much anymore.

What I am is sick of is Nvidias shi__y chipsets, parts rebadging, and general lack of innovation. They thought they could go head to head with Intel, they lost. Mobo manufacturers dont want to put their crappy SLI chip on a nice X58 board. What about manufacturers dropping the Nvidia chipsets? There is absolutely no reason for the SLI brand anymore. You could run SLI on a X48 board if you wanted, but because Nvidia has their little closed platform called SLI which is nothing but a cash cow, you cant. Its nothing but allowing drivers to be written to enable it. I wont even approach the whole mobile chipset issue they are having that it took them forever to own up to, and even then it was kind of half ass. All these things have pretty much been a disservice to the entire gaming industry as well as the customer.

Nvidia was on top for a long time, but they dropped the ball. The 4870X2 will be the nail in the coffin. I dont even think the 55nm die shrink will make the 280 faster than the 4870X2. Im not counting Nvidia out though, but they do need to get their collective asses in gear and put out something new.

Right now the 260 and 4870 are running neck and neck. It a great time to be looking to update your hardware. Competition is a great thing. Nvidia had a stranglehold on the market for far too long. Now ATI is in the game, and Nvidia has to step up with something new and innovative, or they are going to strike out.
August 8, 2008 2:23:22 AM

azorees said:
Why do people insist on comparing a single core card to dual core cards ?? its beyond me like that chart states 9800gx quad sli beats gtx280 3-way sli Hmmm let me think ITS OBVIOUS THAT 4 CARDS ARE GONNA BEAT 3 try putting any single core card v the gtx280 and see what happens ???? or shall i tell you .... Yup u guessed it the GTX comes out on top also guru for benching is not 100% perfect try benching in a real world enviroment also try encoding decoding movies using a 3-way sli 280 and a quad 9800 i agree that best bang for buck would be a 9800x2 until the 4870x2 arrives but what will you guys say if nvidia decided to do the unthinkable and do a GTX280 x 2 at roughly the same price as the 4870 x2 which would be the better buy then ? also if you do some real research you will also see that the nvidia shaders are actually better than ati shaders meaning the gfx look more crisp instead of blurry edges ati is amd always making budget cards to compete with the non budget builder amd v intel ati v nvidia so when you think of it poor ati aka amd has 2 wars going on i used to love the amd cpu's but now switching to intel because they seem to be losing the battle same goes with ati and nvidia ... nvidia will just release a card to smash the 4870 x2 its just a viscious circle ... nvidia release a world beater then ati builds one to compete but while ati are taking the time to build it nvidia put the card out at top whack price knowing that the jones ppl are gonna buy it then ati release the card and nvidia just drop the price for a short while until the next gen card arrives putting ati back down again its just the same with the cpu's what ever card you think is the best within 6 month max is not the best any more all i say is what ever card you like the look of buy it if you can afford it if not then go for something cheaper .


Other than the horrible run on sentence you have there you do raise a few good points. :) 

But I honestly have no issue comparing a dual chip solution (3870X2, 4870X2, 9800GX2) to a single chip solution like a 260,280,4870 and 4850. The cards were designed that way. When CPUs are benchmarked do the dual cores not get benchmarked against the quads? Similar thing here now. Its part of the evolution of hardware as a whole. More cores are > more speed.
a b U Graphics card
August 8, 2008 2:28:21 AM

9800gx2 better buy. microstuttering is annoying but it doesnt occur often. dx 10.1 is useless since were skipping directly to dx11.
a b U Graphics card
August 8, 2008 2:38:50 AM

Silly Forum was down while tyring to post a sec ago. :fou: 

The GX2 definitely outperforms in the majority of situation, but I'd personally get the HD4K or GTX260 simply because they have much better multi-card futures, and better potential of improvement. Whereas the GX2 is more of an EOL product, which does rely alot on driver updates to maintain performance, and anyone who's familiar with the previous gen GX2s and old SLi & Xfire products knows that can be a tricky thing to rely on.

Look at the Digit-Life review to see the flip-flops on the same pages (BattleField /Bioshock , Call of Juarez / COD4 , Lost Planet [min FPS] / Tomb Raider, Hellgate / Oblivioin);

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/geforce-...
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/geforce-...
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/geforce-...
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/geforce-...

And a loss/tie/win situation on the same page;
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/geforce-...

Overall I'd say the GX2 outperform both the HD4K and GTX in many situations, but you still need to be aware of the game you play and the type of games you prefer (some it won't matter, like Command and Conquer or FSX).

Il-Mari said:
Thirdly, it uses about 10-15% more power, which is consistent with the increase in performace - note that the 4800 series is notable for having terrible power consumption efficiency


Personally I'd trust the figures pulled from the actual card itself and not the system overall.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/geforce-...
The difference between the GX2 and the HD4K and GTX260 is much more significant than 10-15% drawing about 50W (about 35-40%) more than a GTX260 and HD4K.

Fourthly, to make full use of Direct X 11, the GPU must be designed with it in mind, already launched cards will only be able to offer partial compatibility.

http://blogs.msdn.com/ptaylor/archive/2008/07/28/gamefe... said:
Fourthly, to make full use of Direct X 11, the GPU must be designed with it in mind, already launched cards will only be able to offer partial compatibility.

http://blogs.msdn.com/ptaylor/archive/2008/07/28/gamefe...


Yes, however that's still X+1 more than those that can't. Considering the features that were most anticipated by many are including in DX10.1, and add Tesselation, it's far from a throw away comapred to the PS2.0A vs PS2.0B discussions. It may amount to the difference between DX8.0 and DX8.1, but for some (especially Morrowind fans) that's a big difference, and the future of those differences will depend greatly on the games that implement them, and if they do so in a timely fashion.

Quote:
Yeah, so how about you stop saying other people 'post misleading information' when you're entire post is basically falsehoods, distortions and fanboyish speculation about wishing doom and gloom on the other maker's cards?


Well considering you're far from correct on the above post, and you admit your error on the previous one, I think you should stop calling the kettle black. :pfff: 
August 8, 2008 2:43:22 AM

we compare the GX2 to single solution, because its meant as a single solution. LOL even though it has 2 gpus its sold as 1 Video card, an easy way to acheive 2 cards with out making a whole new card.

THe 9800 GTX is a single slot, and the GX2 is a single slot, there for they can be compared in my dictionary:) 

The 4870 has a slightly higher life, only because of 10.1, but I'd take frames/sec before technology. Look at 8400 GS, it has DX 10, but can't play any DX 10 game properly...my SOny computer has that card, can't do bioshock, can't do unreal 3, can't do Gears of war.....well I got gears of war to work, but barely playable:p 

I'm alot more interested in the 4870 X2, now theres a single solution card:D 
a b U Graphics card
August 8, 2008 2:48:17 AM

L1qu1d said:
we compare the GX2 to single solution, because its meant as a single solution. LOL even though it has 2 gpus its sold as 1 Video card, an easy way to acheive 2 cards with out making a whole new card.

THe 9800 GTX is a single slot, and the GX2 is a single slot, there for they can be compared in my dictionary:) 


[:datmanii]

Quote:
The 4870 has a slightly higher life, only because of 10.1, but I'd take frames/sec before technology.


True, but sometimes you get both (R9700, X1900, GF8800 [for the long period prior to R600]), but really you do need to look and be sure, because guaranteed none of the above options (GX2, HD4K, GTX2xx) is tops in all situations.
August 8, 2008 3:06:12 AM

Yeesh, quite a lot has gone on since i left for work this morning (curse jobs without internet access!).

Anyways, the PSU i'm currently using is a Corsair 620HX, and i'd love to keep this thing around as long as possible. With that being said, would it be possible to CF a pair of 4870's on this PSU in a year or 2 when i upgrade the mobo/cpu?
August 8, 2008 3:12:13 AM

Hi guys. I was curious. I am stuck between those cards, SLI and Crossfire. I was looking at thr 9800gx2 and the 4870. I see the 4870 is really cheap. When I bought my x1900xtx it was almost $400. My system is only for gaming and I was thinking of either getting a E8500 or Q9300 or a Q9450. My head has been spinning: should I get a 9800gx2--should I go SLI, should I get a 4870---should I go crossfire. COncerning Crossfire and SLI I don't want to burn a hole through my electric bill lol. I'm not a fan of FPS but I do have FSX and I plan to go back to MMORPG's. ANy ideas?
August 8, 2008 3:12:25 AM

TheGreatGrapeApe said:
[:datmanii]

Quote:
The 4870 has a slightly higher life, only because of 10.1, but I'd take frames/sec before technology.


True, but sometimes you get both (R9700, X1900, GF8800 [for the long period prior to R600]), but really you do need to look and be sure, because guaranteed none of the above options (GX2, HD4K, GTX2xx) is tops in all situations.


Agreed fully, right now I am really more interested in Seeing what benefits DX 10.1 can bring to the table, that might actually help give the old 3 series a rebirth...Example the 20% increase with AA on.

From what I read Star Craft 2 and blizzard products took on DX 10.1, I'm glad I got the 4850 for my secondary now:)  lol

But again to get back to waht you said, the GF 8800 and the X1900s, are the cards that come to mind when we think oldies that still kick some serious @ss!
August 8, 2008 3:14:27 AM

joetheone said:
Yeesh, quite a lot has gone on since i left for work this morning (curse jobs without internet access!).

Anyways, the PSU i'm currently using is a Corsair 620HX, and i'd love to keep this thing around as long as possible. With that being said, would it be possible to CF a pair of 4870's on this PSU in a year or 2 when i upgrade the mobo/cpu?


Yes indeed you can:) , I have the exact same PSU in my other computer, and it ran 2 8800 GTS 320s, that ran at 90 nm, and I think consumed alot more power than my GX2:) .
August 8, 2008 4:29:39 AM

I have another quick question, why do cards like the 3870X2 and 9800GX2 suffer from mirco stuttering while SLI and CF configurations don't, or at least nobody talks about them having this problem.
August 8, 2008 5:04:06 AM

Any card that uses SLI, or Xfire has the possibility of micro stuttering. This includes any X2 card because at that point you are basically doing SLI, Xfire on a board instead of via ribbon cable/mobo.

The 4870X2 supposedly has this issue solved, but I dont think we will know for sure until a retail part is out there, with a bunch of benchmarks under its belt.
August 8, 2008 5:09:30 AM

L1qu1d said:
Agreed fully, right now I am really more interested in Seeing what benefits DX 10.1 can bring to the table, that might actually help give the old 3 series a rebirth...Example the 20% increase with AA on.

From what I read Star Craft 2 and blizzard products took on DX 10.1, I'm glad I got the 4850 for my secondary now:)  lol

But again to get back to waht you said, the GF 8800 and the X1900s, are the cards that come to mind when we think oldies that still kick some serious @ss!


This is precisely why Ive held onto my 8800GTX for so long. Everything after its release was nothing but an incremental upgrade. The 8800GTX was the innovator, everything that has come from Nvidia since then isnt really new, but a rehash/rebadge/rebuild of a great card. Same reason I used an ATI 9700 Pro for as many years I did. The 9800's werent really a big update, even though they were a little faster. I used that card until I bought a Nvidia 7800.
August 9, 2008 8:29:05 PM

Odd, why didnt they test a 4870 in crossfire config?



L1qu1d said:
here are charts from guru3d that are updated, and the gX2 still comes out on top. I rarely get micro-stuttering, but when it happens I barely notice it. Either way its always best not to have it at all.

here are charts:


August 10, 2008 1:54:59 AM

probably didn't have the time or the man power to do it:p 
August 10, 2008 10:15:29 AM

JerryC said:
Odd, why didnt they test a 4870 in crossfire config?



The GTX280 is more than just a gamers card its a high end video encoder too which is ( i think i read somewhere it could be higher ) 18x faster than the fastest quad core cpu and were talking encoding High Def movies.
when you pay a premium for a card you also pay for the hidden extras that card has i would love to see benchies on the GTX280 taking on 9800x2 and 4870x2 on video encoding / decoding mpeg's / avi's and HD that would be intresting to see how different the cards realy are and what people are paying for.
The card also takes away the Physics attributes away from the cpu which the gpu handles meaning if your unlucky enough to own a single core cpu you will get better fps also with dual and quads it takes the strain away from them allowing you to do more background tasks while still playing a game that would also be an intresting bench up against these dual core gpu's.
Its good that ATI are giving Nvidia a run for thier money which is actually keeping the price of high end gpu's down could you imagine the price of a gpu if ATI said stuff it Nvidia's won we are now no more, i reckon if that did happen a high end GPU would cost higher than all the rest of your high end component inside your pc.
If you just a pure gamer and want the best FPS then i would say wait for the 4870x2 or buy a gx2 if your like me and do a lot of video work encoding and some decoding then i would more than likely say the 280 untill i see what the 4870x2 and gx2 is capable of at these tasks.
I wish that people would do real world benchies like video encoding /decoding and not just FPS in games as more and more people are getting to grips with HD encoding and DVD converting i think its only fair that benchmarks now should include video encoding or decoding.
August 10, 2008 4:33:55 PM

L1qu1d said:
here are charts from guru3d that are updated, and the gX2 still comes out on top. I rarely get micro-stuttering, but when it happens I barely notice it. Either way its always best not to have it at all.

here are charts:

http://www.guru3d.com/vga/vga-cod4.png

http://www.guru3d.com/vga/vga-stalker-dynamic.png



yes the GX 2 comes out on top ... hmmm but wait what do i see at the 2560x1600 what the hell is a sli gtx280 doing at the top like that taking everything out and the gx2 getting whooped by 8800 ultra ?. the thing with the gtx is that its designed for real high resolutions as you can see it beats everything at the highest resolution when the graphics are more demanding which says that this card is actually more powerfull than its rivals on them screens. Nvidia cards have allways been poor at low res games its when the screen res flies up so do the cards that is what people are paying for so unless you have a monitor that supports 2560x1600 then go for one of the lesser cards for bang for buck if you have a screen res of 2560x1600 then its gtx280 all the way if its a single card or sli or tri sli its got to be gtx280 even the 4870x2 can't match the 280 at that screen res.
when you look at all the benchies about the gx2,gtx260/280 and 4870's and x2's they seem to miss out that screen res quite a lot which is unfair to a card that costs so much and people can't see the card in its true form.
a b U Graphics card
August 10, 2008 4:57:49 PM

azorees said:
The GTX280 is more than just a gamers card its a high end video encoder too which is ( i think i read somewhere it could be higher ) 18x faster than the fastest quad core cpu and were talking encoding High Def movies.


Actually it's not just the GTX 280, but the X1K, GF8 , HD2k , GF9, HD3K, GTXxxx and HD4K can all do accelerated encoding, it just depends on the software. And before even those cards you had OGL based NLE acceleration for preview and transitions.

Quote:
i would love to see benchies on the GTX280 taking on 9800x2 and 4870x2 on video encoding / decoding mpeg's / avi's and HD that would be intresting to see how different the cards realy are and what people are paying for.


Well for video decoding there's no change in the GTX line versus the GF9 line, but the HD4K added dual-stream decoding like the GF9/GTX, so for decoding you'd still have the HD4K out front, but it wouldn't matter X2 or GX2 or GTX, you'd get the same performance from a GF9600GT and perhaps even a 790GX. To that end you also get 7.1 HD audio with the HD4K.

Quote:
The card also takes away the Physics attributes away from the cpu which the gpu handles meaning if your unlucky enough to own a single core cpu you will get better fps also with dual and quads it takes the strain away from them allowing you to do more background tasks while still playing a game that would also be an intresting bench up against these dual core gpu's.


No it doesn't, PhysX only adds workload to those PhysX titles that add GPU workload, it doesn't take titles that use CPU based physics and make them offload their workloads, at least not yet, and likely not anytime soon (since that would mess with the requirements programmers would be targeting, so it will an add-on for a while to come). It's nice if you want to play the limited number of titles under the GPU-PhysX umbrella, but it does nothing for those that aren't.

Quote:
If you just a pure gamer and want the best FPS then i would say wait for the 4870x2 or buy a gx2 if your like me and do a lot of video work encoding and some decoding then i would more than likely say the 280 untill i see what the 4870x2 and gx2 is capable of at these tasks.


Well for decoding you picked the wrong contender, for encoding & transcoding it simply depends on the task both AMD and nV have GPU accelerated partners. As for RapidHD (aka BadBoom) it doesn't work with SLi (except to output 2 different bit-rates/resolutions).
To most people the big interest will be Adobe's move and whether it will side with one IHV or work with both.

Quote:
I wish that people would do real world benchies like video encoding /decoding and not just FPS in games as more and more people are getting to grips with HD encoding and DVD converting i think its only fair that benchmarks now should include video encoding or decoding.


They do, just not before the software arrives, and right now for both companies the software for the encoding part isn't here yet, and for the decoding, some already do have it in their reviews however there's little change between this generation and the last except than now both do dual stream.
a b U Graphics card
August 10, 2008 5:32:45 PM

azorees said:
Nvidia cards have allways been poor at low res games its when the screen res flies up so do the cards that is what people are paying for


Not true.
Up until the GF8/HD2K it was ATi that was the high resolution card, with their much better memory management and compression techniques.

Quote:
so unless you have a monitor that supports 2560x1600 then go for one of the lesser cards for bang for buck if you have a screen res of 2560x1600 then its gtx280 all the way if its a single card or sli or tri sli its got to be gtx280 even the 4870x2 can't match the 280 at that screen res.


O-RLY? the X2 seems to do quite well;
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3354&p=4
http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/15105/3


Quote:
when you look at all the benchies about the gx2,gtx260/280 and 4870's and x2's they seem to miss out that screen res quite a lot which is unfair to a card that costs so much and people can't see the card in its true form.


Actually very few of the X2 reviews missed that resolution, and many of the GTX and HD4870 reviews had it too including Tom's where the GX2 and HD4870 sometimes bested the GTX280 head-to-head. I think you just need to do a little more research if you aren't finding those.
August 11, 2008 10:31:22 AM

after much research and finding out that the due release date for the 4870x2 is the 12 august i have decided to go for 4870x2.
what i need help with is a good OC,ing Xfire board for the q6600 cpu.

my new build is going to consist of.

Q6600 SLACR Go step
120mm cpu fan
mainboard Xire or tri Xfire ( Tri Xfire is what i'm looking hard for ) must support DDR2 Dual channel
Corsair Twin Xms-2-8500 2x 2gig modules or if i save a bit of £'s i may stick 8gig in or is that bad ;) 
2 x sata 16mb cache hd 500 gig
Themaltake Tsunami Case VA3000
1000W PSU prob Themaltake
24" TFT Widscreen Monitor
Vista 64 Ultimate

any info on that build will help me heaps i do prefer tri Xfire if possible my old build was costing around £1,400 which had the xfx £780i Tri Sli and a GTX280 XFX XXX edition. Basically all i'm changing is the Mobo and card. But any info weather this is a good build or not is welcome.
i've been looking at the P45 range of Xfire boards are these any good as i will be overclocking my cpu to the most stable and fastest i can get it and maybe the gpu to.
also what would be better for the HD's just leave them as seperate config or Raid them as i will have one for system os and program files and 1 for games, how much increase in speed will a raid config offer and is it worth the hassle or is it hassle free.

Thanks guys
August 11, 2008 11:15:29 AM

TheGreatGrapeApe said:
Silly Forum was down while tyring to post a sec ago. :fou: 

The GX2 definitely outperforms in the majority of situation, but I'd personally get the HD4K or GTX260 simply because they have much better multi-card futures, and better potential of improvement. Whereas the GX2 is more of an EOL product, which does rely alot on driver updates to maintain performance, and anyone who's familiar with the previous gen GX2s and old SLi & Xfire products knows that can be a tricky thing to rely on.

Look at the Digit-Life review to see the flip-flops on the same pages (BattleField /Bioshock , Call of Juarez / COD4 , Lost Planet [min FPS] / Tomb Raider, Hellgate / Oblivioin);

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/geforce-...
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/geforce-...
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/geforce-...
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/geforce-...

And a loss/tie/win situation on the same page;
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/geforce-...

Overall I'd say the GX2 outperform both the HD4K and GTX in many situations, but you still need to be aware of the game you play and the type of games you prefer (some it won't matter, like Command and Conquer or FSX).



Personally I'd trust the figures pulled from the actual card itself and not the system overall.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/geforce-...
The difference between the GX2 and the HD4K and GTX260 is much more significant than 10-15% drawing about 50W (about 35-40%) more than a GTX260 and HD4K.



Yes, however that's still X+1 more than those that can't. Considering the features that were most anticipated by many are including in DX10.1, and add Tesselation, it's far from a throw away comapred to the PS2.0A vs PS2.0B discussions. It may amount to the difference between DX8.0 and DX8.1, but for some (especially Morrowind fans) that's a big difference, and the future of those differences will depend greatly on the games that implement them, and if they do so in a timely fashion.

Quote:
Yeah, so how about you stop saying other people 'post misleading information' when you're entire post is basically falsehoods, distortions and fanboyish speculation about wishing doom and gloom on the other maker's cards?


Well considering you're far from correct on the above post, and you admit your error on the previous one, I think you should stop calling the kettle black. :pfff: 




I'd definitely go with the Grape Ape on this one.
August 11, 2008 11:33:14 AM

is dx10.1 really needed or is it just ati trying to push developers to implement 10.1 into games.
i'm not a fanboy of any gpu manufacture i'm just a fanboy of best gpu performance from a single card, as for dual gpu solutions the microstuuter is still there on ati and nvidia cards but xfire apparently is better than sli, also i was looking at a 9800gx2 solution but againg the 4870x2 has more features to offer over the 9800x2 the features of the 4870x2 is on par to the gtx280, thats the reason i was looking at the gtx280 from start.
thanks to TheGrapeApe he has pointed me in the right direction of looking deeper and harder, and not just making a haste decision.
i used to be an AMD fanboy in the old day over intel where i did find amd cpu's was cheaper and overclocked better giving u a faster cpu for a lot less. but now intel have got thier act together and thus the change to intel.
I am like most people just want a good kick @$$ system for as little as possible but still being able to go head to head with systems 6 month down the road, i feel that the q6600 along with a 4870x2 will prob acheive that if not just stick in another 4870x2 and that should be enough.
this is my major upgrade for a few years as most of my money now goes on my 2 yr old daughter so my system must be future proof for at least 3 yrs.
!