4870 vs, 9800GX2

[joetheone]

Hey guys, my question today is relatively simple: if you could get the Radeon 4870 and Geforce 9800GX2 for the exact same price, which one would you pick?

My motherboard is a P35, so both crossfire and SLI are out of the picture. In case you want to know, the games I currently play include: The Witcher, World in Conflict, Company of Heroes, Stalker, and Sins of a solar empire.

My Rig (besides GFX)
E4300 @ 2.8 Ghz
ASUS P5K delux
4Gb RAM

 

[invisik]

Performance wise 9800gx2 makes more sense. The 4870 is a very good cost effective card but for just power i would go with the 9800gx2, which is comparable to the gtx 280. But remember the 4870 isnt far off.

 

[skywalker9952]

9800GX2 if the prices are the same

 

[lasttarget]

9800gx2 with your processor overclocked over 3ghz if you can

 

[Just_An_Engineer]

Personally I'd go with the 4870 even if the prices were equal. The raw performance of the 9800GX2 will be a little higher in most cases, but it will be a dual GPU solution which means you may run into microstuttering problems in some games. That may or may not be a big issue depending on what games you play and what Nvidia does with their future drivers. Their future "Big Bang II" driver may improve this problem.

As stated before, the performance of the two cards is pretty close, but the thing that would push me towards the 4870 instead of the 9800GX2 would be the inclusion of AVIVO with ATI cards. Having the GPU video transcoder is extremely handy if you do any video work at all. I record a lot of TV with my tuner card and AVIVO speeds up the process of converting the MPEG2/WMV9 output to DIVX/H.264 much quicker (about 5-6 times faster than the CPU even with my old X1950 Pro). That added functionality is enough to make me prefer ATI, but your priorities may be different from mine.

Before anyone mentions it, yes I am aware that Nvidia will be adding this capability with Elemental's "Badaboom" GPU encoder at some point, but this is still not available and if you look at the vendor's website you will see that it won't be free like AVIVO currently is. You will need to buy the encoder from them when it becomes available.

 

[kelfen]

For future purposes it does not support direct x 10.1 and NVIDIA stated thier next gen cards will support it and some article state games will use this and increase performance by quite a bit.

 

[L1qu1d]

Gx2 is stronger if priced the same:

COD4

Gx2 15% faster w/ AA, 1920x1200
Gx2 23% faster w/o AA, 1920x1200

Crysis

Gx2 2% faster w/ AA, 1920x1200
Gx2 22% faster w/o AA, 1920x1200

Unreal III

Gx2 30% faster w/ AA, 1920x1200
Gx2 20% faster w/o AA, 1920x1200

 

[joetheone]

Thanks for all the quick replies guys. I forgot to mention that i game at 1680*1050 and will for the foreseeable future, but thatks for the charts anyway l1qu1d.

I am seriously leaning towards the GX2 since it clearly bests the 4870. I am curious about this "mircostuttering problem" though. I've heard of it a few times but don't really know anything about it. Can anyone enlighten me please?

 

[vegettonox]

Microstuttering is a combination problem between the two gpu cores as they combine the images and therefore as you play you will notice stuttering in certain games. happens with dual card setups as well but little rarer.

Personally. The 4870s just came out and the benchmarks are based off of beta hot fix drivers. with future driver releases its probably going to be a more efficient choice. Not to mention you avoid the stuttering problem. and have room for future upgrades if you wanna do a duel card setup. Considering this single gpu card can just barely keep up with the dual 9800 card its kind of impressive.


(toms test system for the above benchmarks)
Test Configuration:

* Asus P5E3 Deluxe (Intel X38)
* Intel Core 2 Quad QX6850 (3 GHz)
* Crucial 2 x 1 GB DDR3 1333 MHz 7-7-7-20
* Western Digital WD5000AAKS
* Asus 12x DVD drive
* Cooler Master Real Power Pro 850W

o Windows XP, Vista, Vista SP1
o ForceWare 177.39 beta (9800 GTX +)
o ForceWare 177.34 beta (GTX 260 and 280)
o ForceWare 175.16 WHQL (9800 GTX, 9800 GX2, 8800 Ultra)
o Catalyst 8.7 beta (HD 4850, HD 4870)
o Catalyst 8.6 WHQL (HD 3870)
o Catalyst 8.5 WHQL (HD 3870 X2)


It comes down to this. at 1680x1050 either of those cards are going to play any game your interested in at probably maximum settings. Considering this i would go by features. the 10.1 dx version and the avivo tech on the ati card is nice and teh stuttering problem on the nvidia card makes me look to the ati card.

that and the 9800 gx2 is on average over 100-150 dollars more expensive

Id grab up the 4870 and then later on if you want you can dual em up and extend their life immensely for a lot less.

i actually grabbed up two of the 4850s and i can play crisis completely maxed out at 1920x1200 very comfortably.

 

[kellytm3]

http://forums.slizone.com/index.php?showtopic=26151
Direct X 10.1 can be burried now...Direct X 11 will be here by the end of the year,and will work with all DX 10 cards
Here is a link to a good GX2
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133231

 

[L1qu1d]

here are charts from guru3d that are updated, and the gX2 still comes out on top. I rarely get micro-stuttering, but when it happens I barely notice it. Either way its always best not to have it at all.

here are charts:

 

[joetheone]

I'm not really worried about DX10.1 because I still game on windows XP, but i would like to ask some more about the mirco-stuttering problem on the GX2.

L1qu1d (and anyone else who owns a GX2), when does this problem usually occur, how long does it last, and when it does occur, is it really that bad?

 

[San Pedro]

I'd go with the 4870. Lower power requirements and it's physically a smaller card, plus you don't have to worry about a game not having good scaling in SLI. Either way, you're going to get a great video card.

 

[russki]

Did some immature idiot just go and mark down the posts highlighting microstuttering?! That's really moronic...[/off topic]

 

[Kaldor]

Did some immature idiot just go and mark down the posts highlighting microstuttering?! That's really moronic...[/off topic]

Yup. There are a few idiots around here.

 

[bdollar]

ya i voted both of them back up to zero and now one is voted down again to -1. when someone disagrees it doesn't mean they deserve a vote down. i know price is not supposed to be considered but it is a factor so voting someone down for recommending the other option is kind of weak.

 

[San Pedro]

Yeah, I noticed that to and voted them up.

 

[jeb1517]

4870.

 

[monsta]

Def go the 9800GX2, its a great card

 

[Il-Mari]

I'm in a similar position in that I'll be getting a new graphics card in the next two weeks. I was planning on going with an HD 4870, but honestly with the recent price drops, the GTX 260 and 9800 GX2 are also both good, comprable options.

For example, for 269.99 + shipping, you can get a factory overclocked GTX 260 that'll beat the stock HD 4870 in practically anything (and there are precious few non-reference 4870's around at the moment): http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&Description=GTX%20260&bop=And&Order=PRICE

Review and comparison tables: http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews.php?/gpu_displays/asus_engtx260_top_896mb_nvidia_gtx260/1

Personally, I'm leaning towards this at the moment: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133231 Factory overclocked 9800 GX2 for 299.99 + free 3-day shipping - that's pretty hard to beat at the moment in terms of bang for buck for the middle-high end.

 

[L1qu1d]

I see micro stuttering mostly in CSS, it lasts barely a second. It doesn't ruin game play and doesn't annoy me at all, but then again I'm not that picky.

Everything aside, the 4870 is an amazing card for the price, but if the GX2 matches its price, and you have a sli configuration or single PCI-e, or just want tto stick with a single slot, the GX2 is a no brainer

 

[monsta]

The micro stuttering is no biggie for me either, I agree with Liquid, for the same price id def go the GX2

 

[jeb1517]

but are they really the same price?

 

[Kaldor]

I'm in a similar position in that I'll be getting a new graphics card in the next two weeks. I was planning on going with an HD 4870, but honestly with the recent price drops, the GTX 260 and 9800 GX2 are also both good, comprable options.

For example, for 269.99 + shipping, you can get a factory overclocked GTX 260 that'll beat the stock HD 4870 in practically anything (and there are precious few non-reference 4870's around at the moment): http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&Description=GTX%20260&bop=And&Order=PRICE

Review and comparison tables: http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews.php?/gpu_displays/asus_engtx260_top_896mb_nvidia_gtx260/1

Personally, I'm leaning towards this at the moment: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133231 Factory overclocked 9800 GX2 for 299.99 + free 3-day shipping - that's pretty hard to beat at the moment in terms of bang for buck for the middle-high end.

Umm, no....

Look at the benchmarks in the above graphs. A 4870 is faster than a 260 in those graphs, and is faster in most everything, Crysis possibly being the exception

Next, the review link you posted, they are comparing vs a 4850, not a 4870.

Try not to post misleading information.

That being said. 4870 > 9800GX2. The 9800GX2 might get slightly better framerates, but you will see a longer life with the 4870. Nvidia can barely support the current products they have. What makes you think they will keep releasing new drivers for the GX2? Next would be that the 4870 uses less power. Thirdly, when Direct X 11 does finally come, will the 10.1 support it, or will any card that supports 10 being 11 ready? From what Ive read, its a software change on 10.1, not 10 as a whole. So old Nvidia hardware will be left behind once again.

 

[Il-Mari]

Umm, no....

Look at the benchmarks in the above graphs. A 4870 is faster than a 260 in those graphs, and is faster in most everything, Crysis possibly being the exception

Next, the review link you posted, they are comparing vs a 4850, not a 4870.

Try not to post misleading information.

That being said. 4870 > 9800GX2. The 9800GX2 might get slightly better framerates, but you will see a longer life with the 4870. Nvidia can barely support the current products they have. What makes you think they will keep releasing new drivers for the GX2? Next would be that the 4870 uses less power. Thirdly, when Direct X 11 does finally come, will the 10.1 support it, or will any card that supports 10 being 11 ready? From what Ive read, its a software change on 10.1, not 10 as a whole. So old Nvidia hardware will be left behind once again.

Whoops, I meant to post this: http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/evga_gtx260/ where a similarly factory overclocked card beats the 4870 a majority of the time.

And how about you try not posting misleading information? The GX2 does not get 'slightly better framerates' - it regularly gets 10-30% better ones, which is quite significant. Secondly, do you seriously believe NVDIA is going to stop releasing drivers for a cards that's less than 6 months old anytime soon? Thirdly, it uses about 10-15% more power, which is consistent with the increase in performace - note that the 4800 series is notable for having terrible power consumption efficiency, as noted in the Tom's review:

Unfortunately, the Radeon HD 4870 posted even higher consumption than the 4850 at idle – 22 W more overall, measured at the power supply. When just displaying the desktop ("at idle"), the cardhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Card drops the GPU speed to 550. As soon as it displays 3D data, it increases the GPUhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphics_processing_unit speed to the nominal/maximum speed of 750. Compared to the Radeon HD 3870, the difference is 44 W, or a 40% increase in total consumption for the PC! So the poor power-management performance of the Radeon HD 4800 series has been confirmed. Another problem is that unlike the HD 4850, the Radeon HD 4870’s power consumptionhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_consumption isn’t very economical while gaming.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-4870,1964-15.html

Fourthly, to make full use of Direct X 11, the GPU must be designed with it in mind, already launched cards will only be able to offer partial compatibility.

http://blogs.msdn.com/ptaylor/archive/2008/07/28/gamefest-2008-and-the-directx-11-announcement.aspx

Yeah, so how about you stop saying other people 'post misleading information' when you're entire post is basically falsehoods, distortions and fanboyish speculation about wishing doom and gloom on the other maker's cards?