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Overclocking E8500 Help

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August 13, 2009 7:17:00 AM

Hello People. Im new at overclocking cpu's and i was wondering if anybody could help me :) 

I built my pc myself:

Windows Vista Ultimate 64bit SP2
Core 2 Duo E8500 3.16ghz
Gigabyte GA EP45-DS3 Motherboard
Kingston 4GB 800mhz ram
Sapphire HD 4870 512mb

I basically know how to overclock my cpu but i've been having some problems with it.
I read a few guides on overclocking which gave me a basic idea, so i go into my bios and change the Cpu Host frequency from 333 to 343 and left the multiplier at 9.5 and left all voltages on auto just as so many people said to start off doing.......... nothing.
My pc refused to boot up completely and i had to manually turn it off then on again to fix it.
I went back into the bios and it said the my pc a suffered from a overclocking failure or an incorrect voltage....something or rather. So i tried it again at 353....... nothing! Again...... isnt it frustrating.

i've read all these different storys about how this cpu is a beast overclocker but i cant seem to overclock it at all.
Any help here would be much appreciated :) 


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August 13, 2009 10:16:45 AM

I do not like to leave the voltages on AUTO. I have no idea when or how much the BIOS is going to increase the voltages.

You didn't specify a heatsink. Therefore I am guessing that you are using the stock heatsink. The stock heatsink is adequate for running at only stock speeds. You will need better cooling.
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Building computers since 1977.
Overclocking since 1978 - Z80 (TRS-80) from 1.77 MHz to 2.01 MHz
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August 13, 2009 10:48:56 AM

Set the voltage to a really high point. Then Lower the multipler to 9 and set the FSB 400MHz. Tell me if it works. If it does, operate with FSB now, and when you hit a point in which temp does not let you to go any further, lower the voltage and see if it's stable.
August 13, 2009 11:17:04 AM

szymek said:
Set the voltage to a really high point. Then Lower the multipler to 9 and set the FSB 400MHz. Tell me if it works. If it does, operate with FSB now, and when you hit a point in which temp does not let you to go any further, lower the voltage and see if it's stable.


Can you give me some idea's as to what to voltages i should set when i raise the fsb. Up to this point i am new at this, Ive never liked touching any the voltages on my pc, I just dont want to end up frying it. :) 
August 13, 2009 11:35:49 AM

These things aren't like glass. They have pretty sensitive electronic components that generate a lot of heat while calculating so many thousand operations per second. When you raise voltage, you're raising the current, which increases the power and the heat generated which must be dispersed effectively. Having good cooling is okay while staying at reasonable voltages. IF you raise too much voltage it could cause instability and damage if it isn't cooled properly. Raising the voltage by .1 or so should be safe if you have it cooled properly.

Overclocking isn't science, it's an art form. There's only luck and patience, that and money. If you're afraid to burn out components and have to buy new parts or the same parts, don't overclock. If you don't have any clue what to do, don't overclock. If you don't want to raise voltage and get it stable, you may only be able to get the clock speed up by a small amount. Maybe 200mhz, I'm not familiar with intel.

Okay, you want to overclock anyway? Well, You don't wanna read guides either? And you're confident in your cooling as well?

Let me give you a few pointers as I'm completely unable to help you with an intel based processor. Firstly, Decide where you want to go, something low and raise it up and see what temperatures you get as you raise frequency. If your temperatures seem really high and you're not even overclocked yet, don't even bother. Second, if your pc is not booting, I might suggest increasing voltage on the cpu, if that doesn't work, increase it on the northbridge (don't worry about the northbridge too much, it tends to be quite sturdy under heat in a properly cooled case). If that doesn't work after increasing northbridge voltage and cpu voltage, increase ram voltage by a very small amount and keep doing this very slowly, one or two out of three each time. This is how I got where I am. All I can say is be very careful, pay attention to temperature, crash times, and how long it stays stable. If you can tell how long it took to fail when booting, note that and change voltages and compare. IT worked great for me.
August 13, 2009 11:52:22 AM

Im only looking to go as high as 3.6ghz, my cpu cooler is not its native stock cooler, the one that came with my cpu had......issues, so im using one of my older stock coolers "Bigger and better :) " (lowered the temps abit to). Anyone know what i should change to get to a stable 3.6ghz?
August 13, 2009 11:59:39 AM

And i was wondering if i had to change any of my other memory settings?
August 13, 2009 12:04:56 PM

Just a reminder to clarify, When you ask for help on the internet, you must not assume one post from one person is the best answer and is 100% correct. Also, I'm not telling you to overclock, I'm saying if you absolutely have to/want to, be careful and be smart. If you are knowingly overclocking your central processor without taking your default values, voltages, speeds, and tolerance thresholds that the manufacturer may or may not provide, you're walking in the dark. Also if your processor really isn't cooperating, I might even call them up and ask them about that particular model for overclocking or see if anyone else has the same problems.

Also, Don't 'raise the voltage to a really high point' as that particular suggestion in the process of elimination doesn't help you at all, it just introduces more problems and doesn't really answer any questions, if your processor works fine at lower voltages and is stable, then you'll know more than if you just raised voltage by .5 and said "It's unstable!" while at default values.

So, my first suggestion to you jaydude, should have been to make sure your processor is stable at default values, that way you know everything is working fine. Do a memory test too as crashing can be caused by memory failure too. Booting issues can also be caused by ram. You need to start with small steps.

Memtest86+ and Prime95 Large and small FFTs for a very long time say 8hours-24hours at least. Preferably Large FFTs, I'd do a mix maybe if I really wanted to be sure. Large FFT for 16 hours and Small FFT for 8 hours and a memtest86+ for 8-10hours. No errors? That'd give you a good place to start then. If there doesn't appear to be any issues then maybe there aren't. You can never be 100% sure, but, most problems will surface after 24 hours of torture tests. You may disregard my first post until you do this first.
August 13, 2009 12:07:12 PM

jaydude said:
And i was wondering if i had to change any of my other memory settings?

Well, I would run it at it's factory settings first. Memory overclocking is an entirely different story and can be a little bit more troublesome.

Run it at it's normal factory settings, when you overclock raise voltage in tiny amounts if you have to.

Just keep in mind that this is all at your own risk Jaydude.
August 13, 2009 12:16:24 PM

Technically you shouldn't have to overclock your ram (Change frequencies and latency timings) to get a stable overclock with your central processor.

Besides, default speeds are easier to accommodate on ram. I'm not saying you can't, I'm saying that doing that increases the overall difficulty and the amount of problems. Process of elimination, take it one step at a time. Decide what you want to do first. Central processor, ram. Do one at a time. Central processor might actually be better to do first if you're going to do both.
August 13, 2009 3:43:28 PM

hi, welcome to the forums. First of all i would tell you that overclocking a cpu is not just matter of adjusting cpu volts, sometimes depending on your setup it may require you to change many things. Here is how i would push the Cpu for overclocking.

FSB voltage = increase slightly (if it is 1.2V make it 1.3V)
cpu voltage = since you are doing a moderate OC increase slightly (1.2v -> 1.25V)
mem voltage = fix @ 800, and unlink it from the bios if you have the option. stk volts
Nb/Sb Voltage = increase Slightly (1.2v->1.3/1.4v)
Turn of all the junk in the bios for cpu that you wont be using, virtualization and etc etc
Lastly never leave the volts on auto, the motherboard always uses a specified voltage range that might be too much or too little for your overclocking needs.
Overclocking is trial and error. every chip will run differently and keep your oc goals real, i was running a quad core @ 4ghz before but no real benefit came to me so i backed down to 3.6ghz.....more than enough

goodluck


PS, if you really want to test your oc use the intel burn test. Run it for 10 times at maximum settings and keep your eyes on the temps.
August 13, 2009 4:36:14 PM

freezed1 said:
hi, welcome to the forums. First of all i would tell you that overclocking a cpu is not just matter of adjusting cpu volts, sometimes depending on your setup it may require you to change many things. Here is how i would push the Cpu for overclocking.

FSB voltage = increase slightly (if it is 1.2V make it 1.3V)
cpu voltage = since you are doing a moderate OC increase slightly (1.2v -> 1.25V)
mem voltage = fix @ 800, and unlink it from the bios if you have the option. stk volts
Nb/Sb Voltage = increase Slightly (1.2v->1.3/1.4v)
Turn of all the junk in the bios for cpu that you wont be using, virtualization and etc etc
Lastly never leave the volts on auto, the motherboard always uses a specified voltage range that might be too much or too little for your overclocking needs.
Overclocking is trial and error. every chip will run differently and keep your oc goals real, i was running a quad core @ 4ghz before but no real benefit came to me so i backed down to 3.6ghz.....more than enough

goodluck


PS, if you really want to test your oc use the intel burn test. Run it for 10 times at maximum settings and keep your eyes on the temps.


That's basically what I told him.

Look, There's a lot of stuff you have to remember. And every motherboard and cpu is different and everyone has a different setup.

All I know is perfecting an overclock can take a while.
August 13, 2009 6:01:44 PM

Thanks for your help guys. I finally got it running stable at 3.8ghz, i used 400 *9.5 with the core voltage at 1.256, I also had to change my memory ratio to 1:1 and a few other things in the bios. Such frustrating work this is.... But I suppose its all worth it in the end when you see that juicy 20% performance increase in gta4 and crysis. :) 
August 13, 2009 7:53:45 PM

jaydude said:
I also had to change my memory ratio to 1:1 and a few other things in the bios. Such frustrating work this is.... But I suppose its all worth it in the end when you see that juicy 20% performance increase in gta4 and crysis. :) 


Congrats! You can't beat free increased performance. :D  That CPU will go much higher with proper cooling. I've had my E8400 as high as 4.6GHz on air for short term testing (vcore @ 1.475). Currently it's happy at a FSB of 487MHz for en effective 4.383GHz @ 1.395v and 58C load (but in summer heat I back it down to 4.2GHz @ 1.36v for 54C). Upping speed and the voltage/heat is exponential. The curve rises sharply after crossing the 4.0GHz mark. With a new build, I'm just curious: why didn't you just spend another $25-$50 on a new aftermarket cooler? It's well worth the money IMO, especially when overclocking.

Also, in my experience, don't fiddle too much with memory overclocking. It is even more frustrating and yields almost nothing in real world gains. Your next overclock goal should be your video card if you haven't tried it. I have the ASUS version of the HD 4870 (Dark Knight) in a backup gaming rig, and it is factory overclocked. I then bought an EVGA GTX 275 for the main build in my sig. Overclocking that card raised my Crysis GPU bench frames a solid 6-7fps at 1920x1200.


August 14, 2009 1:51:20 AM

jaydude said:
Thanks for your help guys. I finally got it running stable at 3.8ghz, i used 400 *9.5 with the core voltage at 1.256, I also had to change my memory ratio to 1:1 and a few other things in the bios. Such frustrating work this is.... But I suppose its all worth it in the end when you see that juicy 20% performance increase in gta4 and crysis. :) 


Is it running stable? 12hours of prime95 stable? Or stable as in I booted into windows stable? I thought mine was stable playing a few games on it here and there, then I ran prime95 and it blew up within a few minutes.

12hours+ on prime95 Large FFTs will bring most issues to the light quite quickly.
August 14, 2009 5:18:20 AM

hi, actually prime 95 is fail, i had a pc that was 12+ hr prime 95 small FFT stable, ran intel burn test on it and it failed within 30 seconds. if you want 10000% stability run intel burn test for 20 times on maximum settings and see if it passes/ crashes.
August 14, 2009 12:04:14 PM

freezed1 said:
hi, actually prime 95 is fail, i had a pc that was 12+ hr prime 95 small FFT stable, ran intel burn test on it and it failed within 30 seconds. if you want 10000% stability run intel burn test for 20 times on maximum settings and see if it passes/ crashes.


Small FFT is a lot different than using large FFT. Also, It's your own personal opinion whether you think "intel burn test" is the best or prime95 is the fail. What I would have said if I were you would have been you should try intel burn test too because I've had experiences where that might be more accurate.

I Might suggest running prime95 on large ffts or your own custom settings or whatever. See what happens.
August 14, 2009 12:24:32 PM

I didn't want push my memory any further then its stock speed "I will wait till i get some good ram for that :) " I didn't bother using prime test 95 instead i used the everest stability test and intel burn test on max, Ran them both for 20 minutes with the temps hovering at 38c idle and 61c load. I also turned off that SMART Fan crap "shaved a few degrees off the load temp".

I used to have my 4870 overclocked to 800/1000 but the fan speeds were getting a bit loud "I manually set my fan speeds to different temps" I'm gonna buy a new gpu anyway probably a VaporX 4890 or something.

I shouldn't need to upgrade my cpu cooler just yet its still doing its job just fine :) . I was thinking about buying a new pc case anyway and perhaps a quad cpu at some stage also so i will get a new cpu cooler when i get that. :) 
August 14, 2009 12:55:33 PM

I would have used prime 95 but i dont really have 8+ hours of time to test it. Im quite sure it is fine anyway :) . If its not then i will get my brother to take a look at it and make sure. He probably knows more about this sort of thing then most people "He is doing his masters in IT and computing at Uni" But the bastard wouldn't overclock it for me thats why i went on here :) 

Its seems to be working fine tho. Might get him to take a look at it now anyway just in case. :) 
August 14, 2009 11:04:21 PM

jaydude said:
I would have used prime 95 but i dont really have 8+ hours of time to test it. Im quite sure it is fine anyway :) . If its not then i will get my brother to take a look at it and make sure. He probably knows more about this sort of thing then most people "He is doing his masters in IT and computing at Uni" But the bastard wouldn't overclock it for me thats why i went on here :) 

Its seems to be working fine tho. Might get him to take a look at it now anyway just in case. :) 



You should use prime95 even if you don't have time while, turn it on while you're asleep. Turn the passwords off your pc (So it goes past the login screen) and note what time you started and have the computer sit there and if it BSoDS you can find out in the event log viewer in windows. In the computer management option in the control panel. It'd be under system in the event log viewer.

Congratulations to your brother, but, he probably knows very little or nothing at all about overclocking and the process of doing such. Probably doesn't want you to know he doesn't know how to do it. If he does know anything at all about it it might just be that you can do it and the results of overclocking. I don't know why anyone would refuse to overclock a computer since it's kinda fun? Am I missing something here? Lol.

Also, In my past experiences I've found that people with certifications in IT and whatnot don't actually know anything about computers if they've never really used them before. All they know is what they heard someone say and don't actually know hardly anything. It's kinda sad but, I'd say a lot of people in this forum overclocking their systems probably know more about computers and processors than any amount of schooling could teach. It'd also be a very expensive course if there was and I've never seen a course on overclocking. Never even heard of it.

I thought my overclock was working fine until I left Large FFT on and it crashed within 10 minutes. It might work in the games jaydude, but, it's probably not that stable.
August 14, 2009 11:30:37 PM

heh ocing is 35%skill, 25% components and 40% luck, feel free to change it. IT is a big field and ocing is not related to it =[. i have a BSEE, all about electronics but no ocing =[
August 15, 2009 1:39:13 AM

freezed1 said:
heh ocing is 35%skill, 25% components and 40% luck, feel free to change it. IT is a big field and ocing is not related to it =[. i have a BSEE, all about electronics but no ocing =[


That was my point freezed1. :) 

IT isn't exactly a small subject but, they don't teach you everything in school. I find that people who attempt a subject like IT and say for example they are someone who really enjoys anything that isn't computers will not really have an aptitude for what they are actually trying to get certified in.

More or less what I'm saying is, you can pass a course with 100% and not know anything. There's difference between memorizing facts and actually understanding and knowing anything about IT.

EDIT: Okay Maybe I'm being slightly vague. I'm saying people who walk off the street who have never used a computer in their lives pick up a career involving IT and computer technician. What are you thinking? Lol. It's nice to know what you want to do but, some of these schools don't teach you anything other than how to spit out knowledge faster than anything. I can spit out facts but, what do I actually know? And a lot of schools are like that and some aren't. It also depends on the person.
August 15, 2009 2:36:42 AM

jaydude said:
I would have used prime 95 but i dont really have 8+ hours of time to test it. Im quite sure it is fine anyway :) . If its not then i will get my brother to take a look at it and make sure. He probably knows more about this sort of thing then most people "He is doing his masters in IT and computing at Uni" But the bastard wouldn't overclock it for me thats why i went on here :) 

Its seems to be working fine tho. Might get him to take a look at it now anyway just in case. :) 


He avoided overclocking because properly done takes time, and most importantly he probably knows that you risk data corruption if your not 100% stable. In the business world data integrity is #1. I would at least go for 4 hours of prime95 even if your system isn't mission critical you will avoid the random system crashes, blue screens and other general questionable system behaviors. I've been there done that, and now try for 24-7 reliable O\C's.

Once you got a stable system it helps you nail down when other things like games, and programs are the stability issue.
August 15, 2009 3:33:15 AM

A_Real_Overclocker said:
He avoided overclocking because properly done takes time, and most importantly he probably knows that you risk data corruption if your not 100% stable. In the business world data integrity is #1. I would at least go for 4 hours of prime95 even if your system isn't mission critical you will avoid the random system crashes, blue screens and other general questionable system behaviors. I've been there done that, and now try for 24-7 reliable O\C's.

Once you got a stable system it helps you nail down when other things like games, and programs are the stability issue.




Agree with him. i ran 12+ hr prime 95, 1hr intel burn test, 45minute furmark stability test, 8+hrs ati tool test, memtest 86+, you just dont want an overclocked pc, you want a pc that will work no matter what with 100% stability, it will run anything you throw at it. I know people who clock their pc to 4.00ghz run a 15 minute prime 95 test and then their pc fails or crashes in programs, you need to find realistic Oc's, then test them for 100% stability, some times i fear my compoments might go bad because i test them so much =] with stability programs. overclock your cpu, gpu, mem, then test them all. =]
August 15, 2009 11:49:02 AM

Gixbit said:
You should use prime95 even if you don't have time while, turn it on while you're asleep. Turn the passwords off your pc (So it goes past the login screen) and note what time you started and have the computer sit there and if it BSoDS you can find out in the event log viewer in windows. In the computer management option in the control panel. It'd be under system in the event log viewer.

Congratulations to your brother, but, he probably knows very little or nothing at all about overclocking and the process of doing such. Probably doesn't want you to know he doesn't know how to do it. If he does know anything at all about it it might just be that you can do it and the results of overclocking. I don't know why anyone would refuse to overclock a computer since it's kinda fun? Am I missing something here? Lol.

Also, In my past experiences I've found that people with certifications in IT and whatnot don't actually know anything about computers if they've never really used them before. All they know is what they heard someone say and don't actually know hardly anything. It's kinda sad but, I'd say a lot of people in this forum overclocking their systems probably know more about computers and processors than any amount of schooling could teach. It'd also be a very expensive course if there was and I've never seen a course on overclocking. Never even heard of it.

I thought my overclock was working fine until I left Large FFT on and it crashed within 10 minutes. It might work in the games jaydude, but, it's probably not that stable.


I got him to take a look at it, He said it was fine. My brother has been a computer freak for 10 years "thats where i got my interest in computers" He basically taught himself through trial and error as did i, The only reason he didnt want to do it for me was because he is lazy and doesnt like doing anything unless it benefits him lol :)  But he is a wizz with pc's and has fixed my computer from the brink of death numerous times :) 

I might run prime 95 tonight and see how it goes "Might as well get it over and done with"

I'm most likely not going to keep my pc overclocked all the time "like in summer" at least till i get some better cooling and ventilation in my case :) 
August 15, 2009 1:03:16 PM

Well, I just finished finding out if my system was stable only to find my memory isn't running at the rated speeds as you might notice if you view my signature. I'm going to post at gskill now and ask for a detailed list of specs assuming I can get them seeing as how this motherboard has a lot of options for everything including ram.

There's no 'might run prime95' you MUST run prime95. Data loss isn't really something I overly care about seeing as how if I was doing any sensitive data stuff, I wouldn't be leaving an unstable overclock on the go while I do something like that. If my windows installation gets corrupted, I'm not going to cry. I'm going to fix it.

Good luck though, with your overclock. There's more important things than obsessing about how well crysis works on your pc. Just overclock for the shear fact that it increases your gaming performance overall. So games that aren't crysis will automatically run better than crysis. Seeing as how that game is way ahead of it's time. Sorta like Doom 3 when that came out. It's not even that... good... Hate me for saying that but, it's just another FPS shooter with way too good graphics and some wacked out war of the worlds storyline with extremely linear gameplay with strategy and some suit functions that are almost pointless. Keyword "Almost".

This is the 2nd post about Crysis I've seen and overclocking. Isn't this a good sign that is no way to run crysis perfectly?

EDIT:
August 15, 2009 5:17:41 PM

Gixbit said:
Well, I just finished finding out if my system was stable only to find my memory isn't running at the rated speeds as you might notice if you view my signature. I'm going to post at gskill now and ask for a detailed list of specs assuming I can get them seeing as how this motherboard has a lot of options for everything including ram.

There's no 'might run prime95' you MUST run prime95. Data loss isn't really something I overly care about seeing as how if I was doing any sensitive data stuff, I wouldn't be leaving an unstable overclock on the go while I do something like that. If my windows installation gets corrupted, I'm not going to cry. I'm going to fix it.

Good luck though, with your overclock. There's more important things than obsessing about how well crysis works on your pc. Just overclock for the shear fact that it increases your gaming performance overall. So games that aren't crysis will automatically run better than crysis. Seeing as how that game is way ahead of it's time. Sorta like Doom 3 when that came out. It's not even that... good... Hate me for saying that but, it's just another FPS shooter with way too good graphics and some wacked out war of the worlds storyline with extremely linear gameplay with strategy and some suit functions that are almost pointless. Keyword "Almost".

This is the 2nd post about Crysis I've seen and overclocking. Isn't this a good sign that is no way to run crysis perfectly?


I'm not really into Crysis much anymore i only use it for benchmarking now "I prefer Mercenaries 2 or something like that".
I decided i would put my cpu back to stock clocks for now "I dont really need that much extra power at the moment, Maybe when some better games come out" :)  But atleast now i have the confidence to actually do it thanks to everyone here "carefully of coarse" :) 

I will also be sure to run prime 95 when i do overclock again, I suppose you can never be to careful :) 
!