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need some final help on my build, ordering next week!!

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July 22, 2008 8:58:47 PM

Target: Gaming (COD4, assassins creed, ....), downloading and I want to OVERCLOCK a bit...
Budget: 1000-1500 euro or 1500-2400 dollar

FIRST: is it worth it to make your own desktop over buying one in a shop??
Will I be able to make it myself?? by following tutorials?? I don't want to end up spilling 2400$ and having some pieces I can't bring together :p 

Second: Can u guys help me solve all the "I dont knows" in here?? ;p

CPU: I dont know:
E8400 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... OR Q9450 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

mobo: I dont know
I would like to OC and maybe leave an option for crossfire later on

RAM: corsair 4GB 1066:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

PSU: I dont know
depends on the crossfire or not...

OS: vista premium (get it from a friend)

case: I dont know
P182 maybe...

GPU: a single 4870

CPU cooler: Xigmatek SH13082? (or something like that) :p 
I want a good cooler but also not to much noise...

CD/DVD burner: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

monitor: I dont know 22 inch

Mouse/keyboard: I dont know


thanks!!
July 22, 2008 10:34:38 PM

CPU: Depends. For gaming and OC'ing only, E8400. For multitasking, video editing, etc, Q9450.
Mobo: Rampage is fine but this is cheaper: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Ram: Save yourself some money and get this set with the same timings and lower voltage: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
PSU: This will let you use two 4870's if you get 2 now or one now and want to upgrade later: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
OS: Get a 64 bit Vista, whichever one you think you need
GPU: What resolution will you be gaming at: That'll determine how many 4870's you need. Asus makes the cheapest 4870 at $255 after rebate.
CPU cooler: This is the best for anywhere near the price: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Also get this so you don't have to use push pins to mount the cooler: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
DVD burner: this one is slightly faster: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
July 23, 2008 12:56:07 AM

Those are good questions to ask, and donuts answered them well.

Don't worry too much. Putting a desktop together will save you money, is not as difficult as you think, and is a lot of fun to do. Follow along in the manuals (mobo, case, etc) and you'll do just fine. In all honesty, it's not bad at all. Take your time.

Good luck. Looks like you have a nice build.
Related resources
July 23, 2008 1:01:23 AM

I usually prefer SATA on burners and harddrives
July 23, 2008 1:34:40 AM

Good work, donuts. [:mousemonkey:5]

An IDE burner is a good idea if you get the GA-X48-DS4 and want 6 hard disks. If you can live with 5 HDD or less then you will have a SATA port for the burner and you might as well get a SATA burner. The SH-S203N is good, for example.

I am very impressed with LG's burners. I use mine to burn everything, even though I have a Plextor too, which cost 3 times more. The only problem LG has is described here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riplock
July 23, 2008 1:47:15 AM

There's a Samsung burner with Lightscribe and the same speeds for $1 more.
July 23, 2008 9:01:06 AM

thanks guys!!

thepowerofdonuts said:
CPU: Depends. For gaming and OC'ing only, E8400. For multitasking, video editing, etc, Q9450.

So in my case that would be a E8400 and I'm going to try overclock it to 4Ghz
Quote:
Mobo: Rampage is fine but this is cheaper: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

At the end the 20$ doesn't matter, but I mean can I also do it with like a P45 or X38? or should I take X48?
Quote:
Ram: Save ld Iyourself some money and get this set with the same timings and lower voltage:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Nice, but I doubt about having G-skill in Europe... :( 
Found it!! so thats a good thing... :) 
Quote:
PSU: This will let you use two 4870's if you get 2 now or one now and want to upgrade later: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Ok, now the question is do I even need 2?
Quote:
OS: Get a 64 bit Vista, whichever one you think you need

I don't know the difference :p  wich one do I take?
Quote:
GPU: What resolution will you be gaming at: That'll determine how many 4870's you need. Asus makes the cheapest 4870 at $255 after rebate.

I'm going for a 22 inch screen so...?
Quote:
CPU cooler: This is the best for anywhere near the price: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Also get this so you don't have to use push pins to mount the cooler: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Yeah, aevm told me to take one, so I'm gonna order him in the only shop in The Netherlands/Belgium that sells them for 80$ :p 
Quote:
DVD burner: this one is slightly faster: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

But I heard it's not a good one or something..

And what about the case?? P182? or is there for thesame or lower price a more silent en better cooling case??


THANKS!
July 23, 2008 10:53:32 AM

anyone?? ^^^^
July 23, 2008 2:14:45 PM

You should probably get Get Vista Home Premium 64-bit. Your next option would be Ultimate 64-bit, but if you don't know the differences I'm almost sure you're better off not paying for them. Anyway, compare features here and then decide:
http://support.teloep.org/vistaver.htm

CoD 4 is probably the best written game in the world when it comes to supporting multiple video cards. If that's your favorite
game, then it's worth buying two video cards. For example I've seen benchmarks where they used a 790fx motherboard and tested the game with 1 HD 3850 (I think, or maybe it was 3870???), then with 2, then with 3, then with 4. It kept getting better, and by a lot, almost linear scaling. For example, to compare, Crysis added some 30% or so for card #2, extremely little for #3 and nothing for #4.

Case: unfortunately, silence and cooling go in opposite directions. The more fans and the more airflow you have, the better cooling but more noise. For example the P182's priority is silence, rather than cooling. The Antec 900's priority is cooling, rather than silence. There are cases that do very well on both silence and cooling but they tend to cost a lot (like Lian-Li's and Silverstone's $300+ models).

You could try something like RC-690, for example. Use it as it is with a single HD 4870, and when you add the second video card (if you do, of course) also add a couple of SFF21E fans. You could also use a fan controller, so that fans run slower (and quieter) when you're just surfing or watching movies.
July 23, 2008 8:03:53 PM

k, so I go with premium i think, looks good
What u mean not pay for it? :p 

I don't have COD4 yet, so :p 
I just mean I will play recent games and I like some decent graphics, It doesnt need to be a huge screen with ultrafine graphics but just decent.

Now the main problems are: will I take crossfire or a single 4870? Then I will be able to take a lower cost motherboard and PSU etc...

So what performance will the 4870 do? WOW at full settings? COD4 at full settings? If that is possible I don't want anything more, I'm not editing movies and doing graphic things etc... + it saves some $$ for the second GPU

So what can the single 4870 actually do?

And about the case: yea having both wil be inpossible with my budget, but the thing is maybe the sound I have with the Antec900 isnt even that much I dont know that, and maybe the P182 cools good enough to keep everything cool... I never had an own desktop so I don't know how it will be :p  ...

thanks for the help!!
July 23, 2008 8:35:55 PM

Vista Home Premium 64-bit is $110
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116488

Vista Ultimate SP1 64-bit is $180
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116493

You decide if it's worth the extra $70. OK, it's convenient that it has SP1 already there, and it's got extra features, but $70 is quite a bit of cash too. I'm assuming you're not a student and eligible for discounts, btw. If you are then get the Ultimate, sure.

WoW will work without any problems at max on a HD 4870. In general Blizzard aims to make their games work fine on almost anything, so the HD 4870 is overkill there.

A single HD 4870 gets over 80 fps in CoD4 at 1920x1200, which is more than the monitors can usually display anyway. (60 Hz refresh rate means anything over 60 fps is wasted.)
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3341&p=14

Get an E8400 if you're just playing games (any games but FSX).

Tell you what, my feeling is that you'd be fine with a single HD 4870 and you don't actually need Crossfire support.

If you're not interested in RAID (and you shouldn't for a gaming machine), you can get a GA-EP43-DS3L for about $100. It has PCI-E 2.0, no second slot for Crossfire, no RAID. P5Q Pro would be better (adds RAID and Crossfire, $50 more). One of those should be enough. As for the case, the RC-690 is good value for the money. The P182 would be quieter, but a bit less roomy and more expensive.
July 23, 2008 8:52:25 PM

thanks!!

I just saw another thread that showed the 4870 was prestating pretty good in crisis (40 fps), I'm not going to play that game anyway but it proves I'll have enough with a single one... Is the 4870 the strongest single card atm??

So now I save because I'll only have 1 4870+cheaper mobo+RC690+less watt CPU??? = 500$ saved :D !
And about the mobo, I'll be taking a 640GB 7200.11, is it right u can split a HDD in partitions?,
so the GA-EP43-DS3L will also do ok when I try to overclock the E8400 or Q9450 (just going to try that :p ) to 3.6-4GHz?

If all this is ok I'm almost done and ready to order!!!

Thanks A LOT man!
July 23, 2008 9:23:40 PM

"Taking Vista from friends" is a good way to get in trouble. In fact, talking about it on a public forum is not a very good idea either.

Some people have hacked versions that eliminate Microsoft's checks, but those versions often come with other things hacked too and they send your passwords or copies of your e-mails to the hackers, or open ports so the hackers can read your files, maybe even modify them. Very risky. A typical example is when hackers take control of your PC and use it to send spam mail to others. Eventually you get blamed for sending the crap out, and your excuse "but I had an illegal copy of Vista, it's not my fault" will be rather embarrassing.

And then of course if Microsoft catches you you'll end up paying more than $110 to settle.

Plus, if it's hacked, I don't think you can get the periodic updates that are supposed to protect you from viruses and spyware. TBH I have no idea if they're that useful, but I am getting them anyway and so far I've been OK.




Don't judge video cards based on how they do in Crysis, unless you actually play Crysis a lot. That's a badly programmed game and the results there are often misleading.

The HD 4870 is the best card you can get under, say, $400, in the USA. The 9800GX2 and GTX 280 do beat it, at least in some games, but they normally cost a lot more. And then there's the 4870X2 that's supposed to come out soon, and then the 4850X2, etc.

There's no 640GB 7200.11 AFAIK. WD6400AAKS 640GB Western Digital is a very good hard disk at an excellent price, at least in North America. Seagate's 7200.11 series includes a 500GB and a 750GB which are pretty good, but no 640GB (unless I just haven't heard about it yet). Of course you can split a HDD in partitions. Something like 100GB for Vista for example would help keep the O/S separate, that's good practice.

GA-EP43-DS3L with DDR2-800 and E8400 should reach 3.6GHz without any overclocking. It's got a native fsb of 1600, that helps.
July 23, 2008 9:40:48 PM

So:
E8400, GA-EP43-DS3L, 4GB DDR2 1066 corsair dominator, 500GB 7200.11 Seagate or 640 Samsung F1 spinpoint (wich is best?), vista premium, corsair 650W (or other brand, enough W?), Acer or samsung 22 inch monitor, Saphire HD4870, Xigmatek SH13082, coolermaster 690, Samsung DVD-burner

Is this a good system able to overclock to maybe 4GHz?
July 24, 2008 1:02:59 AM

Get some DDR2-800 RAM, it's cheaper, usually.

HDD: Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB.

Yes, 650W is plenty for that setup.

Overclocking depends a lot on your luck and patience. That is, no 4GHz guarantees, sorry. See how much an E8500 costs too. If it's only $20 more than the E8400, like here, it's worth it IMO.

July 24, 2008 7:59:22 AM

But isn't 1066 better for overclocking?
And first all people said take 7200.11 then they said F1 spinpoint! (other forum) and now a WD, theyre all 7200 rpm so all thesame speed? and wich one is the best quality then??
Yea, I'll take a E8500

For mobo what I'm looking for now is a mobo without Xfire and RAID but with the most performance when overclocking etc so the fastest one

What about this? Will it all work together and work well?? :p 
:

July 24, 2008 1:38:52 PM

Yes, 1066 is better. OK, go for it.

LOL, of course different people recommend different things. Don't worry, WD and Seagate and Samsung all have good products. Go with that Seagate you show in the images, sure, it's a good drive.

In the first image: everything OK, I'm just not familiar with that monitor model.

In the second one:
I'd change the DVD burner to SATA instead of IDE.
Not familiar with that monitor either. In general Samsung gets very good reviews, so it's probably OK.
The Scythe Infinity is not that good. It needs two fans to achieve what the Scythe Ninja does with a single fan, for example.

You should probably shop at that second site - better prices. Give me the URL and I'll try to find you a better burner and cooler, OK?

July 24, 2008 1:50:37 PM

the first shop has the best prices but he is located in The Netherlands while I live in Belgium, so transport costs will be 50 euro then...
I think I'll order everything in the first shop, exept the items that are cheaper in the second one (the town next to mine!), like the Q9450 etc...

And for the cooler I just put that one there because it has thesame price as the Xigmatek SH13082, wich I will order in another shop (the only one selling it in Belgium and The Netherlands!!)

And the burner will be this one http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

And what do you think about the motherboard? is it better? can I get better ones? and the monitor?

Thanks! almost done!!
July 24, 2008 2:16:38 PM

Your burner link points to several models. Pick one of those marked SATA, if you can (not IDE, not PATA). It's not very important, just easier to install and better for airflow.

The P5Q Pro gets good reviews. Compared to the DS3L, you get RAID and Crossfire and one more SATA cable (which you'd need for the burner anyway). Good overclocker too. Yeah, good choice.

That Acer monitor, is it the same as this one?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009124

I like the part about 170 degrees viewing angle. Very useful when you watch movies and you're not alone.
July 24, 2008 2:22:43 PM

Yep, its that acer monitor :p 
So the mobo is ok and ill pick a sata burner
Now one thing: the PSU is he ok?

Now I can consider myself done chosing components?? :p 
July 24, 2008 2:30:00 PM

Yeah, that 650TX PSU is one of the best, and plenty for your current setup.

See how much a 750TX costs. If it's not much more, get the 750TX. In the USA it's like $110 instead of $90. The difference is that the 750TX will be better if you want to add a second video card later. The CoolerMaster 690 and the P5Q Pro already allow it, so you might as well pick a PSU that allows it too.

You're done, yay!!! :) 
July 24, 2008 3:19:42 PM

So I buy this parts follow some guides to put them together and its all done?
Do I need tools for it? special ones?
Or can I do the job with the components + normal screwdrivers? and get it to work properly?
July 24, 2008 3:31:21 PM

If you have a friend who has built PCs before, ask him to come over and watch you and advise. Yes, definitely read some guides. Don't plug in the PSU to the wall socket until you're all done and you've checked all the connections.

Tools: you need a screwdriver, that's about it. Maybe a wrist strap, to prevent electrostatic discharges, but most people do the job without wrist straps. They're just careful to touch the computer's case or the room's heater or whatever big metallic object is nearby.

Be careful when handling parts - touch only the edges, no tthe printed circuits.

Then the software fun starts - you need to partition drives, install Windows, install antivirus, download the latest stable drivers for everything (especially the video card), download test tools like Prime95 and memtest86 and CoreTemp, run them to make sure the hardware passes testing. That should keep you busy for a few days. I wouldn't do any overclocking yet, first make sure everything works fine at stock.

Then do the overclocking, and then prime 95 and memtest again.

I think that's about it. There are people on this forum who know a lot more about overclocking than me. If you need help there start another thread, they'll help you.

July 24, 2008 3:35:46 PM

thanks! ordering now
I'll post soon how I (messed up) did it... :p 
July 24, 2008 3:36:22 PM

When I look for a guid, do I hae to try to find one with thesame parts, whats the most important to be thesame? CPU, mobo?
July 24, 2008 3:47:10 PM

Try to find one about an Intel CPU. It doesn't have to be E8400. There are some differences between Intel CPu and AMD CPU when it comes to installing the cooler. You could also try finding a good review of the cooler, for more instructions. And read the MB manual, of course.
July 24, 2008 4:21:08 PM

k, thanks, I chose the Q9450 at the end, or should I go E8500 still?
I chose the 9450 because I had some money left... Is that as good as the E8500 just more cores? Or can he not overclock that well?
July 24, 2008 4:39:20 PM

Funny, I was just looking at a Newegg review for GA-EP45-DS4P. There's a guy there who overclocked a Q9450 on that MB to 3.9 GHz. That's huge.

Yeah, if you can afford the quad get the quad. It will be the same as the E8500 at most things and a lot better at some things.
July 24, 2008 4:58:28 PM

k, now I'm really done!
thank you very much man!
U helped me very well the last months, me with my noobie questions :p 
July 24, 2008 5:15:37 PM

You're very welcome. Good luck with the build!
July 24, 2008 9:37:57 PM

about the DVD burner again, I made a thread once and they said to take the 20x instead of the 22x because there was something wrong with it, is that true?
July 24, 2008 9:40:13 PM

Yeah, the Samsung 22x seems to overheat, according to some reviewers. Also, the best media you can find is 16x, so you lose nothing at all with a 20x burner.
!